85- and 91-year-old in-laws are ready to go summer in a 3-story cabin. My husband is driving them. This feels like a looming disaster.

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85- and 91-year-old in-laws are ready to go summer in a 3-story cabin. My husband is driving them. This feels like a looming disaster.

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We are still at the beginning of this journey. My 85-year-old MIL is showing early dementia and has been for several years, which is why I joined this group. She will not go to a doctor except a specialist dermatologist. And she can hold it together in front of people who don’t talk to her very long. She wants to make their yearly trip up to North Idaho to their summer cabin. They have been going for many years. My 91-year-old FIL is now determined to take her there, as he likes it too. I think he thinks he is taking care of her because she says she will go by herself if he doesn’t go so he figures he “might as well sit around where there’s a pretty view rather than where there isn’t.” But there are stairs EVERYWHERE. They use only one of the floors as the cabin is perched on a hillside. There’s a loft and a basement with steep stairs that they (mostly) stay off of. He is a serious fall risk but wants to go. Last summer he fell on three different occasions taking the trash cans up to the road. My MIL could do it, but she says "He doesn't ask." She has almost caught the cabin on fire. Well, they have dragooned my 60ish husband (only child) into driving them up there. (3 day drive.) If he won’t drive them, my MIL will drive as she is still mainly okay with driving and my partly blind FIL will navigate. There is no stopping them. They say they will get in-home care or consider moving into AL when the “doctor tells them to.” That's tough when they won’t go to the doctor, so we are guessing there will have to be a big trauma to bring about a move. And they live far from the town. When my FIL had a small stroke up there 12 years ago, it took 20 minutes to get the ambulance to the cabin from town and another 20 to get back to the hospital. We see so many ways this could go wrong. They are fiercely independent and won’t even agree to a Life Alert. Thanks for listening. This is just a rant, I guess. I wish that some day one of them will wake up and think "We should get help!" or "We need a better way to live; let's look at assisted living!" I feel so sad for them.

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F Flowerhouse1952 Jun 2020 · Answer 1 · 2020-06-11T08:13:34.000-0400

2 questions....
1)why doesn't your husband put his foot down and tell them he's not taking them or at least hire someone to go along and stay with them?
2) has YOUR husband been checked for dementia?? He's making some very bad and potentially costly decisions about his parents safety and well-being. Hammer it home girl!! Smh

K Kmjfree Jun 2020 · Answer 2 · 2020-06-10T14:56:01.000-0400

My parents do this kind of stuff too. They don’t listen and don’t want fall alerts though they both fall frequently. It is beyond frustrating. Ultimately it is their decision and as far as I know the law is on their side. I wish there was a better system to take away an elders driver’s license.

B Beatty Jun 2020 · Answer 3 · 2020-06-10T02:54:01.000-0400

From the original post "They say they will get in-home care or consider moving into AL when the “doctor tells them to.”

💡 How about if your hubby insists they get their Doctor's approval for the trip? If Doc says no - he says no. Then Hubby's not the bad guy. ??

S surprise Jun 2020 · Answer 4 · 2020-06-09T20:10:05.000-0400

I think this summer in the woods will see your in-laws moving to assisted living or better in the fall. You need a good crisis, and you can't force it. Better to get it over with now. Your husband might want to go chat with the Emergency Services for the area and get their out of town number for the numerous well checks they will need. Also he might want to find a local care manager who can check up on them in the ER and report back to your husband if he needs to arrive. If there's just a care manager, Mom & Dad may not even realize you are keeping tabs on them! Save the bills and charge their funds once the POA is activated. By the way, is it a POA or DPOA? A durable is often active immediately, but attorneys don't often let that out to the kids.

M medicaidmaze20 Jun 2020 · Answer 5 · 2020-06-09T19:20:00.000-0400

I read some of these replies to your concern and your family members sound just like my parents at 95. Dad very stubborn and is what has kept him going all these years to "take care of Mom" which he can not do any more due to dementia and Parkinson's. Mom fell last week in the kitchen-could have been really really bad due to brick like tile floor, the fridge and wood cabinets that were inches from her head. Dad who can barely walk even with a walker is a dangerous combo-wanted to go help mom get up-thank goodness caregiver says to dad just give her a minute to get it together and she will be fine. He actually kind of forgot what he wanted to do, sat in the chair, and my husband got her off the floor. They have 24 hour care and there are still problems with falls, people not doing what needs to be done-not perfect but better than them being alone 100 percent of the time. Blind leading the blind is how I would describe my parents. My parents are insisting on staying in their own home no matter what which is why they have home care such as it is is a little bit of a safety net at least CG can call 911.

I agree with other posters who mention making the trip a group activity someone to keep an eye on the elders and go from there. Elders got the trip they really really wanted and maybe helpers can keep them safe. Re assess at the end of the trip about the cabin-keeping it, selling it, finding something else elders would enjoy just as much without all the hassle-cabin at your local state park??? for the weekend. Someone has to be the adult here that can make a safe reasonable decision about how of if to proceed with the trip of people who are no longer able to fend for themselves in a remote location sounds like a disaster in the making-even as much as you want elders to have what they want one last time...

L lealonnie1 Jun 2020 · Answer 6 · 2020-06-09T18:42:23.000-0400

Unfortunately, you just have to wait for the phone to ring indicating the crisis du jour, and handle it accordingly I'm afraid. In the meantime, your husband should tell his folks the ONLY way he'd even CONSIDER driving them up to this cabin is if they BOTH are fitted with Life Alert bracelets. No bracelets, no driver. So, even if they say they won't use it in case of an emergency, they CAN use it if they both have one handy.

Good luck. It's not easy having parents and/or in laws that are as stubborn as mules.

M Mysteryshopper Jun 2020 · Answer 7 · 2020-06-09T18:15:24.000-0400

Somehow, our elders don't always want those life alerts. Not sure why. One lady I was helping was so desperately in denial of her condition that I knew darned well she would never wear a life alert if she had one. Oh yes, since she was "fine" and all and only needed "a little help for a few days." Yeah, right. She had limited funds and money could not be spent on a button which she would never wear and she might not even know where she left it. Won't do her much good if she's not wearing it. I finally got tired of getting asked over and over by onlookers as to why she didn't have one and what was my problem with it? Fine. Long story short, I got her one even though I still felt she would not comply. Thankfully, she actually WAS wearing it when she ultimately needed to be and the service called for help. This was probably a TIA, (we will never know) and happened during one of the few times she was alone that day. Ended up being her last day at home as she was deemed unable to return there. Make sure button is waterproof (so they never have ANY legit reason to take it off) and make sure it has automatic "falls detection" even if there is an extra fee. My advice would be get the button anyway - even if they are saying they don't want it. It worked in my case.

A AlvaDeer Jun 2020 · Answer 8 · 2020-06-09T16:52:15.000-0400

OK, this IS a looming disaster. I am the FIRST to want to give all the freedoms that can be given, but you are three days away at BEST. This is NOT good. I don't know how many ways to say that. The future of Assisted Living or no is another thing, but this trip is right here, right now. And I would be terrified. I was about to suggest a watch with GPS for Mom for when she gets lost, but who knows is that will stay on. My friend had to do this for her brother after he left San Francisco and was found days later roaming in Oakland. He luckily and happily loves his watch and keeps it on. BUT then I read that Dad is having falls. This honestly sounds awful to me, yet there is no one here who has had a guardianship placed on them. However, I would not be the one to drive them there unless I was staying nearby, either. My only thought, if this is going to happen is that someone must be paid to keep watch on them daily. This could be a neighbor. Someone close by who could use some extra money to simply stop. And if this could not be agreed to there is NO WAY I would participate in this, as it is clearly dangerous and a disaster waiting to happen. I would say odds are 75-25 something awful will happen, and not in your favor, and to participate by driving them there is to be both responsible and complicit.

G gemswinner12 Jun 2020 · Answer 9 · 2020-06-09T16:44:46.000-0400

Let them go for it! Husband is not going to drive them, though. They need to suffer their own consequences. Perhaps make sure they have life alert or some type of emergency help to call. If your husband drives them, then he is allowing them to keep believing that they are independently living and vacationing, when we all know this is a falsehood/ farce. Since they won’t listen to reason, they need to experience some drama.

T Tothill Jun 2020 · Answer 10 · 2020-06-09T16:23:39.000-0400

I can understand why they want to go to the cabin and all your concerns that it will not be a good idea.

We have a family waterfront property. My son is currently living there. He moved over 2 years ago, so Dad would have someone nearby when he spent the summer there. Dad was 89.

Last Summer Dad was only there for 2 weeks when my brother was there with his family. The rest of the year Dad lives in a suite in my brother's home.

A couple weeks ago Dad was going to go over with my brother's family, but at the last minute cancelled. I think he was afraid to find out he just cannot manage the stairs (only 6 to get into the cabin) any longer. He may try again when my brother is over for 2 weeks in August. Dad feels safer with my brother's family as my sil is a doctor.

Now for your in laws. I am sure they are in love with the idea of going to the place where they have so many good memories. They may find the reality when they get there is not what they expected. Perhaps your hubby can stick around a bit longer just to see if they can manage?

I have gone to battle with my dad and brother over a life alert type system. They looked into it and the one they were looking at cost $50 per month. Somehow that was too expensive. My Dad figured if he kept his car keys in his pocket if he fell he could set off the car alarm. Yeah, and who would hear it, who would come over to investigate and what if he knocked himself out?

Can you hubby make a life alert a condition of his driving them up? Dad, I will not drive you unless you let me install a life alert system.

S shad250 Jun 2020 · Answer 11 · 2020-06-09T15:44:36.000-0400

Good for them!!! Maybe they want to make one last trip before giving this up. If they would go, after the trip talk can center on selling the cabin and moving on.

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 12 · 2020-06-09T15:31:17.000-0400

He does have both forms of POA. If he put a lock on the basement, his dad would be furious and just go get the bolt cutters. :(

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 13 · 2020-06-09T15:29:44.000-0400

He does have medical and durable powers of attorney and he is the successor trustee for their trust. But they're not deemed incompetent yet. And he will probably feel pretty rotten about it, and he would/will also feel pretty bad about it if they run off the road. At least it's not icy up there any longer.

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 14 · 2020-06-09T15:28:06.000-0400

Interesting idea about just asking straight out. If nothing else that may be a selling point for the Life Alert. They don't see that he would have to come up there in the event something happened, though he drove up to get them and their fifth wheel when FIL had his stroke. No one in their side of the family seems to see anything wrong with having to drive 1300 miles to go to a cabin! (My husband helped his dad build the cabin. They've had the land since 1972; so I guess it's "normal" to him.)

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 15 · 2020-06-09T15:26:07.000-0400

FIL would be onto him if he took the car in. He's still basically sharp, except for the denial of their own health and the need to get someone to help take the dang trash up to the road. But I really like the idea of maybe trying to find some long-suffering person to live with them. We have a very small family circle but there might be someone in town from the church who would want to have a free room on the lake for just being there.

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 16 · 2020-06-09T15:23:33.000-0400

He does stay up there for several days to get them settled. He can look around to see what if anything needs to be fixed before he flies home. He sets up the utilities and flushes the lines from the winterizing, turns on the propane or whatever. (I haven't done this part, so I don't know.) He is trying to get his dad to order a regular internet service rather than a hot-spot. Hopefully then if we offer to pay for the Life Alert, it would be more effective. It is a terrible idea to leave them up there.

M Maryjann Jun 2020 · Answer 17 · 2020-06-09T15:20:42.000-0400

Actually they do have a car up there. They continue to drive it. That of course worries me too, though MIL seems basically okay as long as she's not talking when she's driving, although FIL is her navigator. My husband drives them and their big dog up there in their car. Then he flies home, leaving them alone with the stairs and the chores.

J JoAnn29 Jun 2020 · Answer 18 · 2020-06-09T10:29:12.000-0400

I think there must be some mental decline in Dad too if he can't see the danger here.

None of us want to lose our independence but we also need to be aware of out limitations as we age. What can husband do? Nothing I guess. I may put a lock on the basement door if there is nothing they need down there. Also, maybe a way Mom can't get up to the loft? When Dementia is involved you never know what they will do.

My Dad was a stubborn man but he became aware of his limitations. When Mom was with him she drove. He only drove when she was not with him. Eventually, she did all the driving.

I hope your husband has POAs on both parents. It will make decisions in the future easier. The one good thing about them going is maybe Dad will realize that they can't do it anymore.

N NYDaughterInLaw Jun 2020 · Answer 19 · 2020-06-09T10:12:57.000-0400

My inlaws had a lake cabin. My husband sold it once it became clear that they were never, ever going back to visit under their own steam. After they moved to indy living, they begged us every summer to take them there. My husband and I talked about it, felt as you do that more could go wrong than right, and we refused. They threatened to go by themselves and my husband said something like "Well, I think that's a terrible idea but I can't stop you." Reality was that, without our help, they could not do all the things necessary to go.

I think your husband is enabling what ought not be enabled. You can explain to him that he is enabling their folly. Three days drive up and three back is 6 days driving for your husband both to take them up and then bring them back. That's 12 days driving, and exhausting.

Is he going to help them pack?
Is he going to help them stock the house with groceries?
Is he going to air out the house, turn on the water, check the boiler?

There is a lot more to opening up a summer cabin than getting there. I think your husband needs a reality check.

A Alicew234 Jun 2020 · Answer 20 · 2020-06-09T09:58:36.000-0400

None of that will help him until they are declared to be incompetent to make their own decisions by the health care providers they refuse to see.

I don't think pointing out the husband is going to feel guilty will help anyone. We feel guilty when people we love won't accept care and it doesn't change a single thing. It's a complete waste of energy.

C CTTN55 Jun 2020 · Answer 21 · 2020-06-09T09:49:51.000-0400

How does your H think he will feel if (when?) there is a crisis while they are at the cabin? Surely he's thought about this?

Does he have DPOA/HCPOA for his parents? Is he the executor of their will?

B Beatty Jun 2020 · Answer 22 · 2020-06-09T09:33:20.000-0400

Hmm. An elderly relative of mine with a heart condition was planning a foreign holiday. Asked his cardiologist for his opinion. "Well. You can die over there or you can die here. What would be easier on your wife?"

Your story reminds me of that...

If they are OK with breaking their hips or necks at the cabin & your DH is also ok with that.... well... Ask them that straight out & see what they all say!

G Geaton777 Jun 2020 · Answer 23 · 2020-06-09T09:00:25.000-0400

Hi Maryjann, I'm also an only child. I understand your husband's inner conflicts in this situation (and yours as well). You husband will need to decide/come to grips with some realities, the first (and most urgent) is: he needs to take their car away so they don't kill OTHER PEOPLE on the road. If they only maimed or injured themselves it would be different. I have a personal story about that.

This is where "therapeutic fibs" are a wonderful tool. Your husband makes up a story about taking their car in to be serviced. He stores the car and keys somewhere they can't find it. He just keeps telling them it's in the shop. They won't like it, but this is what happens to the "stuck" mind of some with dementia -- they no long can reason or consider others. Next, he can anonymously contact their states DMV and online report both of them as dangerous drivers. Most likely the state will send a letter calling them in for a retest. No one should give them back their car or take them in for this test (usually eye and road test). Then, their licenses will expire and then as PoA he can sell their car and stop paying the insurance. I've done this for 4 seniors in my family. Will soon need to do it on my own mother who is 91. They must be kept off the road or any accidents will be on your husband's conscience since he's the one with the knowledge and power to prevent it.

The cabin visit: is it possible to find another family member (maybe teenager) who is willing to go stay with them? If FIL/MIL were alone and your FIL fell, would MIL remember how to call for help? Could she give the address or know how to work the phone? A 3 day drive is a long way to retrieve them in an emergency. Could your husband live with this if it happened?

Your in-laws will need more and more help/oversight as your family props up the illusion of independence. I do think they should have a nice visit to the cabin, but not alone and with a helper for each of them. They WILL NOT like any help that they need, but that's too bad. They are no longer being rational about things and your only child hubs is outnumbered. Once something happens to one of his parents, the other is sure to decline rapidly at the same time. He will be stamping out fires on a daily basis if he doesn't start coming to grips with this reality and work to prepare for things every day. Again, his parents WILL be angry and no amount of debating will bring their thinking around. I wish you both all the best as you try to help ease your inlaws into a new way of living. May you have peace in your hearts on this journey!

B BarbBrooklyn Jun 2020 · Answer 24 · 2020-06-09T01:16:26.000-0400

Wwelcome, MaryJann! Like many folks on this site, your husband is in the unenviable position of "waiting for a crisis". You can force stubborn folks to see their own needs, but you can refuse to participate in their " charade of independence".

How on earth are they going to get food if they are there with no car?

Does your husband hold POA for them? I would make sure you know how to contact emergency services in their area if he is determined to take them.

85- and 91-year-old in-laws are ready to go summer in a 3-story cabin. My husband is driving them. This feels like a looming disaster.

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