Boundaries are about you - not them.

Admins - This thread needs to be sent to all new forum members in a welcome email. Golden has such insight and experience, and the anecdotes will help give our newbies strength. I think every caregiver needs to know how to set boundaries, whether with a parent, sibling, well meaning nosey nellies. And knowing how to set boundaries enables us to help others in our life. This skill extends past caregiving too. I have an extended family member in transition of not looking like she can live alone. This drama is hitting too many familiar buttons and I have no reserve left, so I'm putting up boundaries to keep on the fringe of the drama.
I think at the core is respect. We learn that we don't have to take abuse because "well, that's the way s/he is and they won't change". We learn that our own families' needs matter. And looking after our own needs is vital, not selfish. We learn that the world won't come to an end if we say no. We learn that sometimes we have to make the tough choice to go no contact, even if it's family. Thanks for this thread, Golden.

Golden 23 thank you so much. I needed to hear this today!!! Admins keep this thread up for all to see!!! It is comforting and helpful!!! Thank you again!!

The one thing I'm having problems with is after you've set your boundaries how do you deal with the pouting, the self pity, the silent treatment. That form of passive aggressive behavior is another form of manipulation that if it bothers you (and it bothers me) boundaries don't help, especially if you live with the person. Apart from moving out what can you do?

Gershun,

Passive aggressiveness is really awful. Lots of parents use that tactic. My mom did on occasion. I hated it.

I'll comment more tomorrow Got my grand daugter here for a few nights and am just settling her in.

Nice to see people sharing what works and what doesn't work. Maybe we can find some solutions. Even just talking it over can clarify things.

I picked up a little on perhaps a need for detachment from people after setting boundaries. It doesn't have to be forever. But a time of detaching can help and is self protective. It doesn't mean you don't care but it means the other one can't manipulate you with, for example, the silent treatment,

Good night, folks Be good to you.

Gershun - yes its hard. I get the "woe is me I'm so sad you can't do this one thing"

Thank you for posting this ! I wish I would have found this site before now when I was smack dab in the midst of it all! Nice articles!

Great post! I believe setting boundaries in so many situations is the answer to much happiness and contentment in life. It does take patience with yourself, forgiveness for that ever present self inflicted unnecessary guilt and lots of self talk. Thanks for posting and reminding me of this! As long as we breathe we will have challenges and unexpected events come up. You are so correct, self care is extremely important and personal growth never ends and rocks!

Gershun, I just read your post here. How the other person responds does NOT matter. Usually the other WILL push back against new boundaries, one way or another. Expect that. They don’t want you to stop doing for them. Why would they ? They are benefiting from this relationship. I too have been met with the passive aggressive response. This might be sulking, or crying, or acting even more helpless ! Or ignoring me, dirty looks, or the silent treatment (etc). Some people use these tactics to TRY to make us either (a)feel sorry for them(ie pity), or (b)feel guilty for not helping in the way they want us to help. He/she wants you to give in on the boundary. Don’t do it. Guilt in that situation is not appropriate. You’re doing nothing wrong by looking after your own needs ! ! !
Others may push back with anger, yelling, insults, arguing, maybe even begging. If setting boundaries was easy, so many caregivers here wouldn’t be struggling as much as we do.
As for your possible reaction to this, yes, it is really hard. Especially if you live there. Mainly do not give in ! Can you leave the room for a while ? Get away in whatever way is possible in your situation. Take a walk. Depending on the situation, it might be helpful to tell them that these old methods of manipulation will not work on you. Mainly don’t further engage with them. Don’t argue, don’t apologize. Say “this is the end of this discussion for now.” Then get some support from someone who understands why you need to set this boundary. Write about it here for support. It’s a learning process.

paul - you dad brought you up to be a people pleaser - and him in particular, I am glad you are setting boundaries and not feeling guilt any more That is success!!! But it seems, he is still using your need to keep him happy, to manipulate you. You don't have to argue, or justify, or face the harangue of questions. You can detach - hang up or walk away. You are right you can't change him. You can't make him happy. You can only change yourself. I suspect nothing and no one can make him happy. I am glad you set a boundary about him bad mouthing your wife, and he is heeding it. That is success too.

kdcm - You are doing great!!! I wonder if you have a great relatioship with your bro now because you set a boundary. Well done!!! It is catching isn't it? So good to hear that your hub is setting boundaries with his family. So much healthier. Some times we have to keep people on the periphery of our lives.

need - it is a brainwashing in childhood. We have to unlearn some things and learn others. I haven't forgotten about forgiveness.

Linda - so nice to see you back I have been thinking of you. I hope you stick around. Thx for the kind words. Whatever wisdom I have I have fought hard for. Yes setting boundaries is a life skill in many situations. Respect is a big one. Respect for ourselves and others. and looking after ourselves.

I like this quote
"If you don't take time for your wellness, you will be forced to take time for your illness". Joyce Sunada.
So very true.

elaine - you're welcome. We all need reminders sometimes.

gershun - the pouting etc is a way of testing and pushing your boundaries. This attempt at manioulation often happens after
setting a boundary. What is recommended is detachment, I will post some links below.

hurtheart - welcome . Boundaries can be started anytime and setting them is ongoing in life.

Detaching is often written about in relation to boundaries as you need it as a tool to maintain your boundaries. There are other tools too like dealing with your guilt about setting boundaries., forgiveness, acceptance, respect We will come to those

from https://blogs.psychcentral.com/imperfect/2017/04/codependency-and-the-art-of-detaching-from-dysfunctional-family-members/?li_source=LI&li_medium=popular17

"Detaching is a way off of the “relationship rollercoaster”. Detaching allows you to take care of yourself, honor your own feelings and needs, and let go of the guilt and shame that result from taking responsibility for other people’s bad choices.
 
What is detaching? ...
..
Don’t
Even
Think
About
Changing
Him/Her

Detaching means you STOP trying to force the outcome that you want.
 
Detach with love..."

other links -
https://psychcentral.com/lib/a-pep-talk-for-people-pleasers-for-setting-boundaries/?li_source=LI&li_medium=popular17

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/anger/2016/09/emotional-detachment-establishing-boundaries/

Learning how to set boundaries and how to deal with the consequences is an on going process. Setting boundaries will build our self esteem. and help us to balance our focus on others with our focus on self. It is not selfishness to focus on self but it is self care, and self respect. which is healthy.

We cannot control how others respond. That is their business,

I like the phrase "what others think of you is none of your business. "

Oops sorry mymomisold - thank you. Two kitties and a granddaughter are distracting me. Yes it is often the answer to happiness and contentment. I agree with everything you say. We will always have challenges.

nancy - you are so right about how and why people push back. Getting support is critically important. We all need it when we are facing boundary pushers. For me is is ongoing learning. We need not to feel guilty about setting a boundary for our own good, or give in no matter how the other responds.

If someone withholds affection trying to make you lower your boundary, IMO they behaving like a jerk at that time. Get affection, validation from others while you are struggling with this. Incidentally I know some very nice people who behave like jerks sometimes, Probably I do too! It's not black and white.

correction - I knew I was distracted - and NOT give in no matter how the other responds

good night all

Golden23 I like that phrase too. “What others think of you is none of your business.” My therapist told me that many times. I would tell her so and so said this about me. Her reply was always “So What!” I said what do you mean so what? She said “What others think of you are none of your business!!” I love that phrase!!!

Golden,

The detaching part can really be tricky for some of us. It was for me. I have found that the more I was hurt by those who claimed to ‘care’ the easier it became to detach.

They kept proving who they were with their actions and hurtful words and I slowly but surely saw their true colors.

It’s sad because we want to believe the best about our family. Sometimes we make excuses for them and I am not sure why we do that. Is it to protect them or ourselves? I learned to view myself from my own feelings and not their distorted illusions.

Elaine,

I like your therapist! Isn’t it liberating not to care about the foolishness that others say?

needhelpwithmom. I loved her advice!!! It got to the point where I would start to tell her about what I thought somebody said about me at work because I was new at the job I bid on and was feeling insecure and incompetent and she would say “So What? Just those 2 words because the rest of the phrase was “what someone thinks of you is none of your business!!! I felt like everyone was talking about me because I made a few mistakes when I was brand new in my department. I started my new department in 2012.

Needhelpwithmom in my job both men and woman gossip a lot!! They just start spewing stuff without knowing the facts. I’ve learned to walk away from it all no matter who they are talking about.

Elaine,

They made mistakes when they were new. Everyone does! I really dislike perfectionists. They are miserable people and very difficult to be around. They usually end up alone because no one can stand being around them. They can’t tolerate their shortcomings or mistakes made by anyone. So ridiculous because no one is perfect.

Only vain and insecure people can’t admit mistakes or apologize to others. People who are secure can freely admit they screwed up and accept that others will goof up from time to time too.

It’s truly sad because how many times have perfectionists been told by others that no one will love them any less due to mistakes? Their vanity and insecurity just won’t allow them to admit anything.

Elaine,

That’s the best thing, walking away. Because like you said, they have no clue what they are even talking about! Soon enough people forget about their nonsense.

Need and anyone who finds it that way - detaching doesn't come naturally. I agree the more hurt you are - the nearer you are to the end of your tether, the easier it gets.

It is sad when family members or other loved ones hurt us and we wonder what we did or why they do it.

I think we make excuses because we are not ready to accept that that is how they are. We make excuses and keep hoping that things will turn out the way we want them to. I am so glad that you have learned to see your self as you are and not as your family sees you.

I always felt that my mother and sister didn't "know" me as they made me into the person they needed me to be for their unhealthy "games".

Detaching doesn't always have to be forever. Temporary detachment may be enough for the other to sit up and take notice and make some changes. I never completely detached from my mother but I kept a healthy distance

elaine - Wow! You are walking out of the FOG. That's awesome! I am impressed.

I thought I'd try and bring this thread back to the front again.

Golden,

Thanks for responding to my posting.
I agree with your words. I love deeply and I hurt deeply and being hurt from those I loved really destroyed me. I am not the same. Everything about me has been altered.

I am doing the very best that I can for now. I feel the detachment relationship with my brothers has to permanent. I will always love my mom in spite of her favoritism that she showed to my brothers all of my life. Other issues too, sort of complicated.

My relationship with mom became terribly strained. I completely forgive. I did speak to her on the phone briefly a couple of times since she left my home. Sadly, I am not hopeful about much restoration in the relationship. I wish her nothing but the best and I just seek peace in my life.

I admire your wisdom and how you have handled your experiences. You certainly have dealt with more than most. I suppose your mom lived the longest of anyone posting on this site.

One of the reasons why I wanted to bring this thread back to the front was something that happened yesterday had me thinking about boundaries.

I was out with my sister in law and she got started like she does asking if I'd been in touch with family. She's my brother's wife. I unapologetically said no I hadn't. I saw judgment in her face but for once was unfazed by it. It made me realize I've grown in the last little while. I don't need her approval. Her family is close, mine isn't. Not through any fault of mine. I don't take ownership of that dysfunction. It felt good to not care what she thought.

Golden, I agree and thank you for this post. It was someone in this forum who actually made me realize exactly what you stated. I hope she knows who she is because she really helped me. Boundaries are indeed for us. When I finally understood, my whole entire perspective shifted. My life got better. I have a clear plan on how I am choosing to interact with my parents, and I have peace. Boundaries have been a life saver for me. I hope others can benefit as well.

Golden23,
The boundary that I am setting for the first of the month is to share less information with hubs about bill paying unless he asks. He never asks, so why am I trying so hard to make things 'normal'?
I am wearing myself out.

It is not normal to start out with. He does have cognitive decline and at times becomes argumentative in a ridiculous sort of way.
Nothing against him, it is his condition. He is so intelligent, but cannot use it for his own good.

I am going to have to step up, do more on my own, and am tired to start out with this month. I won't let that stop me.

And Golden, you are right, it doesn't have to be a fight. He won't even notice I am sharing less.

Gershun,

Your sister in law has not walked in your shoes. She does not have a right to judge you. She doesn’t even have the right to know about your personal relationships. IMO she needs to mind her own business.

If she were asking about your family out of concern for you that would be different but she isn’t. She is asking because she is nosey and wishes to pass judgment.

Good for you for not allowing in to bother you. She is who she is. Why would you expect anything else? Sounds like you know exactly how she behaves. So you are one step ahead of her. She won’t catch you off guard.

I find that those who judge other people’s family relationships are often living in glass houses! My MILs partner used to give me judgmental looks any time I said I hadn’t talked to my parents lately. It was like I was supposed to call and check on them every day or something. My mom and I talk every Sunday night. Been that way for years. But I’ll never forget the attitude and judgmental looks I got when my parents would be brought up during discussion and I said I hadn’t talked to them in a week!! And the thing is, my MILs partner has 2 sons that were always treated like red-headed step children! He didn’t act like their father, they were often purposely excluded from family get-togethers, and he treated my SIL who is not his daughter and who he did not raise, 100 times better than he ever treated his sons. Yet I was a bad daughter for only calling my parents once a week! Did his kids ever call him? NOPE!!! That guy should have looked in his own backyard before judging me and my family situation.

I am really learning lately to trust my own judgement on things. For too long I have second guessed myself about so much. It's only been just recently that I've started to listen to my gut. When I arranged to get together with my S I L I was dreading it in some ways. She is a nice lady but judgemental especially about my family and how we are. She hasn't been there in the trenches so to speak during the years that created the family dysfunction in the first place. I wasn't about to give her any kind of 58 year history lesson.

Cali,

You said it! Some people expect entirely too much. They are usually the ones who like to pretend they are better than others. Some people even believe their own lies.

Here’s the thing though. Their lashing out at others backfires them because they end up chasing everyone away. It’s sad. They could have chosen to be caring people but decided to be manipulative and deceiving.

You are so smart in assessing and seeing through this type of behavior.

Gershun,

I hear such wisdom in your words. We all hope to grow. It’s inspirational to others to see progress. You have progressed and that brings internal peace. I too have had feelings similar to yours, very similar.

All of us have had people who have been ‘thorns in our sides’ and we learn to cope with their behavior. Hopefully one day they will learn to see their true selves in the mirror one day and desire to make positive changes in their behavior.