Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
Xray,
I don't think your NM is thinking! It makes no sense for her to move out of a AL to an apartment! That in itself is insane! But if your NM is anything like mine you can't change their minds no matter what you say and do! They refuse to listen to anyone and ALWAYS pay the price for their mistakes and WE get the great job of cleaning up the aftermath! Ugh!!
It is hard for us to be hard a$$ to our mothers because we were conditioned to take care of them...to want/need their love...to protect them...to put their needs before our own...so we do whatever we have to to save them...we were groomed for them. And it sucks!!
All you can do is sit back and wait...wait for her to fall...she'll need help with something & want you to come to her rescue!
My NM is know different and all I ever can do is wait for whatever she does to blow up in her face...it always does!!! They NEVER learn from their mistakes!
Leelady, welcome to the group! I sure hope you can find a way OUT of the house you're living in SOON and into a new place of your own. You deserve that; you've done way way WAY more than enough for your mother already; I hope you can wrap your mind around that truth.
Jodi........I seriously think you have to decide how much you are going to do or not do for your NM once she moves into this 'apartment' which is such a ridiculous idea. You know she expects you to do it ALL for her, right? Make a plan, or the plan will be that your entire LIFE is devoted to HER. If it were me, I'd let her know right off the bat that I'm available for 2 hours a WEEK, max. No joke. She'd better get a caregiver on board IMMEDIATELY or you're IT g/f. Don't let her see a crack in your solid plan either, or you'll be sunk. She has NO business moving out of her ALF and she has to be told that you DO NOT condone it and have NO time for her, sorry/not sorry mom. Don't tell yourself how 'hard' it is to deal with being firm..............tell yourself how EASY it is to be firm since she's SO OUT OF LINE making a RIDICULOUS decision like this! She is counting on YOU to take care of her, and that's NOT okay. Period.
You're so right!!
They expect us to clean up the mess they've made for themselves!!
Lea,
I truly believe that her actions are a direct (narcissistic) response to how much time I spend on dealing with my Aunt! It's been almost a full time job!
I need to find away, if only for my own sanity, to tell her exactly why this is a huge mistake. But as I'm sure you know, it's not an easy task!!😘
Your right it is ludicrous thing to say! In my mind, she falls down the stairs and tells the EMTs that I pushed her or something and you know how people believe these women?! They act so sweet like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths!
My mother said about six months ago that she wouldn't be worried if I moved out because she knows I would be over everyday to cook, clean, yard work, maintenance and etc...I couldn't stop laughing, which made her upset...the h3ll I will...I'll go and get a part-time job! Wink Wink!
Xray,
Lea is right! Your NM is thinking you will take care of her and do all the heavy lifting! If I was you I would tell her "mom if you move into that apartment you know I won't be able to help you. You'll have to hire someone to care for you." Of course, she'll come back with I'll be find or I have you! You should really think on how you are going to handle this.
I have to say, that I am amazed how these women make decisions and have no thought in what effects it has on the people around them!!!🥺
While it's not easy to set boundaries with your NM, what's even harder is having TWO full time jobs on your hands now. One with your aunt and one with your mother! You'll have to pack up and move away to escape.....leaving no forwarding address 🤐
I moved from California to Colorado, she followed. I moved from Colorado to Montana, she followed!
My hubby and I have found our perfect place!! We bought the perfect lot and built our perfect home! I refuse to let her chase me off !!
I suspect that my only option is to find a way to tell her exactly how I feel. I also suspect that it's not going to go well.
I think I spoke about it on another post, but I think writing her a letter may be eye opening for her.
I know that I can't talk to her about my feelings on the phone, because she will flat out shut me down!
It's a harsh realization that my 84 year old mother is tougher than I am!! Lol
I know you totally get it!😘
'
I hope you get your message across in the letter and that you can stick to your plan. You deserve a life too.
Stilldealing, you are very right. Acceptance of what is is what's best for us. Wishing for something different isn't gonna make it happen. You're really describing the stages of grief a daughter goes thru on her way to accepting the fact she doesn't have a real mother, or has lost her to mental illness
I definitely hope you have some sibs because I can 100% guarantee that your mom, like mine, plans for you to do all her hands on care. I'd really prefer my own mom to stay in the area she's in now where at least she has some friends who can help take care of her, but there's no way she'll listen of course.
We just had to get a new battery for our ageing car and I joked cynically to my brother that we ought to send Mum the bill - we would buy a newer, smaller car if we didn't have to accommodate her walking aids and wheelchair. He agreed, but when we told her the car was having problems she switched to selective deafness.
In a way I wish I hadn't "healed" and put it behind me. Because when it came time to put the big hooks in me for her elder care, I did not have my defenses up. That in part allowed her to manipulate me into this situation. Several months in and I'm seeing dementia, abusive narc behavior, I'm getting triggers left and right, and I'm back in a psychiatrists office. I'll just say this, as much as I liked my old therapist from back in the day, I was never told or warned about CPTSD. It is REAL and it is brutal. The worse part is it is subconscious. It's the reason anxiety goes through the roof and my stomach is in knots when I have to deal with her. My mother a frail 77 year old with dementia- and me a capable 58 year old, and this lady has me reacting like a scared child. THAT is CPTSD.
LeeLady, welcome to the club. You are not alone in your depression. It can feel crippling at times. Please vent her often, it helps and this is a safe space. Others here really get it. As you figure out a way to get out of that house keep coming here for support. I think you already know the first thing you need to do is get out of there.
Shell, your mom and that comment... I just can't. You should have laughed at her. But the idea that she "warned" you is so sickening. Again, why would a mother want to elicit that kind of unfounded irrational fear in her child? It's so abnormal.
Hellbore- these plans your mom has to move close to you made alarm bells go off in my head! Tell her to move to assisted living!! Moving close makes it much easier for them to invade your life and there will be an ever increasing dependence on you- trust me I KNOW! Hellbore I'm not joking.
So today is my mom's 77th birthday. Please send good vibes that I get through birthday girl's big day with half a smile. I got her flowers, and shrimp at the fish market yesterday to make a fried shrimp dinner which is one of her favorites. I got her scheduled for her covid vaccine yesterday so she is happy about that, so hopefully will be in a good mood today.
When Mom can no longer drive and needs hands on care we'll sell whatever house or condo she lives in and do it at that point, or if she's burned through it we'll look into Medicaid. No way she moves in with me now or ever. I know from experience she'll just follow me even if I move away and there's no way I can stop her, that I know of, from moving wherever she likes unfortunately.
So sorry about your CPTSD. I have that to some extent around my only sibling, my half brother from Mom's first marriage. She let him do whatever he wanted to me, pretty much, when we were kids - mostly psychological torture luckily - and I haven't talked to him in 18 years but I'm not sure what I'd do if I ever had to.
Just another vote for asking your mom to pitch in for the car repair Helen!! That really hurts when one child is the "golden," I know - I see that with my husband's family. He's the invisible child, sadly.
CPTSD is a serious mental health condition that can take some time to treat, and for many people, it's a lifelong condition. However, a combination of therapy and medication can help you manage your symptoms and significantly improve your quality of life.
The difference between CPTSD and PTSD is that PTSD usually occurs after a single traumatic event, while CPTSD is associated with repeated trauma. Events that can lead to PTSD include a serious accident, a sexual assault, or a traumatic childbirth experience, such as losing a baby. Complex PTSD, however, is specific to severe, repetitive trauma that typically happens in childhood - most often abuse.
https://www.beautyafterbruises.org/what-is-cptsd
Your words ring so true. In the last year, I thought what was wrong with me? Why am I so unlovable to this woman I called mom? Then I found this thread and all these wonderful & amazing women. Who's stories sound as if they were my own. In time, I have come to realize that it was never about me...it was about the story...the idea of what my mother thought in her dark twisted head about me. I also came to realize that when my dad passed in 2014 I became an orphan I just didn't know it at the time. I know I am a "Motherless" child and everyday I am reminded of that when I look into my NM eyes and see nothing but selfishness and I look past that and see emptiness. And you are right...no mother's script to live up to or live by! Thank you for reminding me there is freedom in being a "Motherless" child.
Piper,
Why elicit that kind of fear on her child? Because she wants to destroy my life...destroy who I am! I have done so much in my life...things that my NM couldn't nor wouldn't do. I have seen things that she has only read or watch on TV and she knows I am not done. To destroy all that is in me that she wanted to be but couldn't. I still have dreams and a big to do list. She loves to instill fear into me...but I do not live my life in fear and I am not about to start now. I have never and will never harm a hair on her head! She is all talk...I doubt very much if she would have the guts to hurt herself just to blame me. She is truly sick in the head!!
My weight, how I dressed, even down to what solos I sang in school. I wasn't permitted to be myself!
There were never any kudos!
No matter how hard I tried or how well I did, never a pat on the back!!
Her favorite saying is "I taught her everything she knows ".
After reading thru all of our posts, I have come to realize that her sad attempts to live vicariously through me have had the opposite effect on her!
Instead of feeling fulfilled, it has left her feeling empty and jealous. And yes, when I was 16, she actually told me that she was jealous of me!
We all have to work hard at not letting these broken people bring us down!!!
I understand how painful and incredibly difficult it is to put ourselves first and I'm so grateful for all of you and your thoughtful insight!!
You ALL Rock!!!😘
For me it is somewhat opposite. My NM never really bothered with me. She didn't teach me my ABC's or how to count...tie my shoes...how to zip up my coat...that was all my brother's doing...my NM never even read to me as a child. All the things child learn in those first 5 to 6 yrs my NM wasn't apart of it! I ask myself "How could I have forgotten?" "How did I not realize that my NM wasn't there to teach me these things?"
I did so much to get her attention...her love...but everything I accomplished just made her hate me more. My NM always claimed that she was proud of me and that other's were jealous of me, but I see now that was all a lie.
I really don't know what is worst! Having a 'mother' push what she wants onto you or having a 'mother' who ignored you most of your life, but tells you that she loves you...either way we both got the cheated when it came to mothers. I never got 'that a girl' from my NM!
It really is a strange thought...it is 5:38 am and I woke up to thinking "how strange it is to have a mother in your life who never really was a mother! How my friends thought I had the best mom...because she acted so caring to them, but couldn't be bothered by me. She was a stay at home mom, but she stayed in her bedroom most of the time...most nights she never even made us kids dinner. Thank God my dad taught us kids to cook at a young age.
Xray, you are a wonderful person & you deserve all the love, peace, and joy that your heart can hold. You turned out to be a loving and a great human being dispite what your NM did! Be proud of yourself!💜
We all deserve so much more than what our NM thinks! Here is to us 👏!
If you have a mother or father that is a covert narcissist, you may have felt as if you weren’t protected when you were growing up, or you may have felt that you were on your own and needed to take care of yourself.
Or sometimes it can go the other way, especially with moms who are so overly involved in your life and overly protective of you, that you get the message that this world isn’t safe, and the only person you can trust is your mom. You’re never gonna make it out there on your own. It’s a very disempowering relationship.
I have NM #2: one that was SO extremely over protective & over involved in my life that I didn't have 3 minutes of peace or privacy in my entire childhood!
Interesting, huh?
I knew at 3 yrs old I was on my own! Something horrible happened to me and my NM knew about it and did nothing about it! No one did! (Dad probably didn't know) I have always felt that I can't trust anybody even my own family! I hate to say this but it is true...I keep everybody except my SO at arms length. It took my SO 5 to 6 yrs for me to trust him...not because of him, but because of me and always feeling that all I ever have is myself! I have always had to take care of myself. My NM never bothered with me which just kept reinforcing that belief and I still feel this way!
Yes, it is interesting in a very sad way!
She even said she fed me in the high chair as a baby and toddler because god forbid I get food all over my face. The list goes on and on.
Nowadays they would be called a helicopter mom. But even a helicopter mom may hover over her child, but she still lets the child think and do things for themselves.
Boy, did I mistake all of that growing up as love. I thought she hovered because she loved me. That was never the case at all.
I think, even though our childhood treatment seems to be polar opposites, the outcome is that we have equally struggled to figure out who we are!!
You're NM didn't try to nurture or mold you, while mine tried to mold me into what she always wanted herself to be.
Lea,
In my studies, I recall that there are 3 types of narcissist.
1) Overt
2) Covert
3) Exobitionist
It seems the one common threads is the F.O.G.
Today my Mom called me. She started talking about her move. She was using words like "We" and "Us"!
OMG!! There is no "We" or "Us"!
There is only "Her"!
I thought about writing her a letter!
I think I need to just grow a pair!!
I need to have "The Talk" with her! I need to know that she hears me when I tell her that I do not support her decision.
I am willing to help, but I can't be at her beckon call.
She needs to take ME out of the equation and plan her move knowing this!!
I am totally stressed about having this conversation. I know it's not gonna go well. If she can just let me speak and get this off my chest maybe we can move forward.
My suspicion is that the conversation is going to quickly end with her in tears and hanging up on me!
Wish me luck!!🤞🤞🙏🙏🙏
As children of narcissists, we are taught that we earn love by what we do, not by who we are!
So we spent the majority of our lives trying to earn love by doing things for people we want to love us. Or sometimes doing things out of our comfort zone to earn love from people who don't deserve it!
I will bare my soul!
I think it's fair to say that we've all heard about girls that have Daddy issues. I am realizing that it's also possible to have Mommy issues.
I was very promiscuous in my late teens and early 20's. I sought the love, comfort and security that I never got at home!
It seems crazy to me that it's taken me so long to figure it out.!
And although I can see it all so clearly, it's so hard to break the cycle of F.O.G. I am begining to see that the only way to go about it is to just rip the bandaid off!
Either way, it's going to cause me pain and anguish! But I think it's better for me to set boundaries knowing they will be breached as opposed to holding my tongue and hoping for the best!
Looking back, I think my husband saved my life. He was and still is kind and gentle and isn’t and never was the yelling and screaming type like I grew up with in my household.
He took me away from all the chaos and we are still married.
It’s funny how after reading lealonnie’s post about her mom being NM #2, it really triggered me. I was at work and all I could think about was my mother and from a very early age, her not LISTENING to me when I really needed her there.
She sent me to various babysitters and I felt so alone because my parents would go to lasvegas for a week or 2 and my brother was much older then me and was already doing his own thing. I just felt alone and I couldn’t talk to my mother how I was feeling when I was 4 years old because she didn’t want to hear it.
My mother passed away on October 31 2020 from a stroke and I thought it would be a relief with her gone. It’s not a relief. All the negative tapes play back over and over in my mind. I just with there was a way to stop the tapes.
Do what is right for you. You don’t owe your mom anything. You have every right to speak up to her. Please take care of you. Thank you for baring your soul. I did the same and I must say, I feel better. Thank you Xrayjodib for listening.
My oldest son is gay and none of us ever told my mother because she would have disowned him even though they were so close. So he decided to never tell her.
These NM mothers that we have could never understand and would not be supportive because it’s all about THEM.
What I have learned from this forum. Is that we are NOT our Mothers!!!! She doesn’t define who we are. We are nothing like our mothers!!! When my son told me he was gay, I told him we loved him no matter what. It doesn’t matter. We want him to be himself. To be his authentic self. That is what our NM should have taught us. To be ourselves, not be who they wanted us to be.
We all deserved better than what we got. Even with her death, I’m still trying to process it all. Hugs to all of you and take care of YOU, because YOU matter!!
I'm so tired. I didn't see my mom yesterday, so I'm already feeling the pressure to socialize with her today in some capacity. I was awake at 4:30 AM thinking about it with feelings of dread. This is no way to live and I'm changing things the second I see a crack of a chance. I'm starting to obsess about "competency" wondering how much of a lunatic she is going to have to get to in order for me to force placement in MC. I read the other day that in FL only a judge can declare someone incompetent. Not a primary care or a diagnosis of dementia. Oh great so I have a court battle ahead of me? I should just go ahead and make an appointment with an elder care attorney. I need to find out what the real deal is on placement in Florida.
On a better note, I'm taking my mom for her first covid shot on Monday. The next one is set for March 15. Really hoping some semblance of "normalcy" returns by summer. I'm aware that covid has made everything so much harder, and I'm hoping relief from the covid imposed isolation will make everything a little easier.