Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
Elaine,
Yes, My NM can be sweet as pie for hours than rant, but she doesn't always rant when she doesn't get her way or if you did something or said something that offended her. In stead, she steals something of mine or from my SO...or tighten the collar on my cat so he is almost choked (if that makes sense)...moves things on me...throws away meat that I paid for...she has no limits or boundaries of what she will and can do to me...my life is pure H3LL!!!
My NM never treated me bad when my dad or certain people were around, but she sure did when it was just my NB (he is just like her) or other people who she didn't care for...then she was just mean & nasty to me! She pit my brother & I against eachother and now I have to watch my back because he has gotten people who verbally threatened me and he himself threatened to hit me with his truck! Plus, he has egged my jeep three times and my truck once! (We now have cameras up) But the cops won't do anything even though this is the second time. He has been telling people this house is his and he is going to throw me & my SO out after my NM dies!! However, this house is my family home and his name isn't on the deed. My NM Quit Deed the house to me upon her death, but she has told me that I don't deserve the house after I saved it (made her file bankruptcy) paid the back taxes, paid taxes for 2017, 2018 and all the house insurance (2016, 2017, 2018, part of 2019) & had the furnace replaced because it died in the middle of winter and she had no money; moreover, sealed the flat roof (leaking into the kitchen), sealed the basement (leaking into the basement) and the list goes on and on! What do I get... kicked in the gut (so to speak). And yes, my NM has had me looked for things & paperwork and she knew where it was! But hey, she is the victim!!!! And yes I have the deed to the house, the will, both POAs!
**Just thinking my NM is not very smart by hurting the person she needs to rely on!
I know this is psychological abuse, unfortunately I live with her & we are trying to save money to move out! I usually gray rock her, but that doesn't stop her from her bs!
Heavy sigh!!!!
I may have to go back to therapy. Even though my mother passed away October 31st, the negative tapes play in my head day after day. She may be gone, but she’s still in my head.
Welcome!
Yes, these NMs seem to thrive on drama!!
After reading an article on Emotional Vampires, when my Mom starts the drama I know she "Needs to Feed". That's when I go "grey rock "!
Shell,
You asked why they pick on the one they need the most?
I think it's akin to "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"
Do they need us the most, or have we been programmed to meet their needs??
Hang in there!!
(((((Big Hugs)))))
I am in therapy but my therapist isn't much help. I can't change therapist yet because he is helping me get my food trailer & with the Covid no one is taking new pts! However, I have had so much help and support from this forum. I never would have thought that there are so many women dealing with the same issues and so caring! Even the joke thread helps!! Plus, my bedroom is my safe place. I have scented candles, a TV, a game system and more. The negative energy in our house is so thick you can cut it with a knife; however, my bedroom is very peaceful...thank God for the little things!
Once I made up my mind to move out our finances has been taking a hit after hit! So unfortunately it may take more time then I would like it to! I pray every night to God to help me fight a good fight and to preserve & protect me & my SO! Right now that is all I have!
I told my NM two weeks ago that I will have peace, joy, and love in my life with or without her it makes no difference to me! I am done with her!!! I want to move out and sell the house and put her into AL!!!!! I could deal with her for 20 minutes a week!
Sending you warm hugs!!💖
They broke the mold with your mom. Same for your brother.
You could write a series of books!
My mom has her issues but I wouldn’t necessarily classify her as a narcissist.
My brothers, on the other hand, hmmmm...they do have a narcissistic personality.
I hesitate to even use the word ‘brother’ because they don’t fit the definition other than we share the same parents.
I had to learn coping skills to survive what sometimes felt like torture.
Every situation is different. It’s trial and error for all of us. Sometimes relationships end up being extremely limited or dissolve completely.
When I was obsessed with my mom and brothers, my blood pressure would go through the roof, my heart raced, I couldn’t eat for days, I wasn’t breathing properly and I broke out in hives.
My therapist told me that I was under such extreme stress that it started to effect me physically as well as emotionally and he recommended breathing exercises for me to do.
I learned to value myself instead of placing the entire focus on them.
It took awhile for me to accept my self worth. My therapist had his work cut out for him.
There were times that my mom and brothers ridiculed therapy.
Actually, they would never admit to the benefit of therapists.
Most likely because my brothers ex wives were praised by their therapists for leaving my brothers!
Of course, since my mom still looks at my brothers as her precious babies, she isn’t going to look favorably on anyone who upsets them.
I remember keeping a journal during therapy.
I left the room and when I returned I found my mom reading it.
She was hurt and I was upset. Not a good combo!
I told mom that she had no business invading my privacy and walked off.
There is power in letting go. There really is.
I thought that I was strong for holding on. I found my strength when I let go.
I am so thrilled that you are developing a plan to be free from your family.
In my case, two stubborn women in a house was a disaster!
Also, I'm sure my dad is still around, too. I have truly weird coincidences to do with him all the time. One time I was talking out loud to him about how much I missed him and right at that moment a song came on about parents loving their children forever even after death.... couldn't believe it. Of course I cried my eyes out.
I'm not sure I'd move out of the house if you're hoping to wind up with it long term. Any way you can make nmom move? I'll bet you're in my same boat where there's not much money for AL, but maybe you can qualify her for Medicaid.
Lealonnie said "I've come to realize it's okay to dislike her AND to love her at the same time; it's okay to question her motives; it's okay to question MYSELF from time to time, in other words, it's ALL okay."
Thank you. I really struggle with this sometimes. I do think that in her own way my mom loves me - it's just that it doesn't seem like it because she has such a limited capacity for empathy. Honestly I even believe she has no idea that something that would be obvious to you or me as upsetting even will be. Like you say, she has a mental disorder, and I have one myself (ADHD) so I guess I can understand how certain things are not always all that easy to control.
I admit I'm really dreading having to talk to her again about getting rid of all my stuff because she'll claim I'm "overreacting," though.... it's so exhausting trying to deal with someone whose default is always putting herself first yet somehow she thinks that's invisible to others. Now that she's older unfortunately she's got all this societal reinforcement for how you're supposed to go the extra mile for old people, "because they did so much for you" which she plays up to the hilt.
Sometimes I'm not even really sure why she had me since she ignored me most of the time when I lived at home, yet like most narcs she'll never admit she did anything wrong (yet SHE can complain about her own father, who probably also had NPD.) It used to hurt like hell but here again in a way I'm so glad I finally know what's wrong and how much of this is likely NOT my fault.
It takes time to adjust.
Memories come in waves, don’t they? Some of them knock us off of our feet.
We missed you so much when you stopped posting but understood that you needed time to yourself.
Reach out for support when you need to. Always wishing the very best for you.
Your mother probably gave your stuff away b/c she had no idea it would bother you to do so, and probably didn't care. She couldn't put the shoe on the other foot and ask herself, how would it make ME feel to have MY stuff given away? KWIM? It's a deficiency in her that compels her to do these things, you know? NONE of this is 'your fault'........none of it. People with PDs try to blame us for all of their issues, but it's NOT our fault they're this way. My mother has blamed everyone on earth for all of her problems, and still does, even with moderately advanced DEMENTIA! Even tonight, she called to say 'me and the girls were going out for the evening b/c we had the day off, and when I got out of the bathroom, they went to bed and ditched me, those son's of bi*ches'. Confabulating stories where she can STILL blame others and be a victim, isn't that rich? LOL
That's just it it is a mental illness, but this mental illness is one like no other. I too have mental illness, but it doesn't make me hurt people! NPD people hurt people and yet they see it as it is ok because some how they 'reason it' in their head!
You CAN NOT win with these people! Narcs do not have empathy, compassion, sympathy...your NM may believe she loves you, but love doesn't hurt, abuse (emotional, physically or psychological), use, or manipulate people.
NPD people are hypersensitive! In other words, you can say the tiniest little thing to them and it hurts their feelings; then they have to get back at you! EVERYTHING is one sided...THEIR SIDE!!
Your NM threw out your stuff and thinks nothing about it...what does that tell you! It speaks volume to me! My NM has done the samething to me. She has given some of my things away and thrown some of my things into the trash at no thought of how it would make me feel!! And they never see our side of things, which can & will drive you nuts!! It does me!!! Narcs value nothing...not people or things! Sure they may like someone or something, but soon find it of no use and throw "it" out.
Lea, is right! It is ok to feel however you feel and it is ok to doubt yourself from time-to-time and it's ok to wonder about your NM motives! But we have to tread lightly because they will and can hurt and use us up that we become a broken empty shell of the person we were!
My NM ignored me too as a child unless she needed something from me! I started care for her and cleaning up her messes at 9 yrs old...I became her mom!!
I believe that was your dad letting you know he was with you. I think that is awesome except for the part of you crying your eyes out!
My NM has no money for a AL and if I put her into an apartment I would have to use my credit and she will ruin it. She has ruined so much of my dad's things and his house and she has NEVER respected me and my stuff, so that is out! She doesn't qualify for a MC, NH, or anything else! There are no AL here that take Medicaid and I don't think she'll move out anyways. There is no where to put her. She really wants me to move out and have me come over everyday to make her dinner, clean the house and do all the maintenance. Not caring that I just cannot do that! I have an autoimmune disorder and stress is the last thing I need. She knows this, but doesn't care. I have been hospitalized twice because of stress and she keeps packing it on like no big deal! But that is a Narc for you! Living with her for 4 1/2 yrs has been enough to make me want to hang myself!! Not that I am going to do it! But she gets meaner and more selfish every week it seems. In truth, I wish God would take her and put her and me out of misery!!
When I came back home, I loved this place, but she has managed to ruin that for me as well! Now, I just want to move out and find my old self and some peace and joy!!
I am sorry if I seem harsh, I really don't mean to be! I think I am just burned out and exhausted! Hugs!!!
Needhelpwithmom, thank you for all of your support. It does get easier without my NM but there are so many “moments “ that will pop up in my head. I try to retrieve the happier times in my head. She was always good to me growing up and always so good to her grandchildren.
But when NM turned 90 everything changed. Her brain changed. Her mental illness got worse. When she was in the hospital a year ago she referred to me as SHE to the nurses. “Is she still here “ Did SHE go to the bathroom? Instead of saying daughter it was always SHE.
I try to keep the negative thoughts at bay. Sometimes it’s not so easy.
My Mom doesn't have anyone either! She thinks I'm her BFF.
She lived with one of my younger brothers who is her "Flying Monkey" and it almost ruined his marriage.
Mom complained constantly that he was putting his wife before her(well yeah, duh)! So because she was no longer the center of my brothers universe, she decided to move closer to me in Montana. At least I had 3 years of bliss!
I have come to the conclusion that distancing ourselves from the narcissistic cycle is like eating an elephant! One bite at a time!
Try to choose one thing that you can control and start slowly!
Feel empowered when you can make even small steps!!
I still loose my sh!+ sometimes and cry that "I JUST WANT MY LIFE BACK ".
I guess in the long run, I am the only one that can make it happen!
Our NMs most certainly won't!😘
Being responsible for my Aunt has been absolutely challenging to say the least. Not because of her! Because of literally taking over someone else's financial, medical and quality of life! The phone calls, the paperwork and her life in general, has been a full time job.
Yet everytime I call her, she is so happy to talk to me!
Because of her Alzheimers, we have the same conversations over and over, yet they're mostly happy and loving! Great memories and happy times!
Even though it's becoming harder and more painful as her Alzheimers progresses, she still brightens my day!
Talking to my Mom is the polar opposite!
I stress before I call her. My heart sinks when the phone rings and I see it's her! It's never a positive experience. She causes stress and anxiety consistently!
She complains about everything!
She expects me to hang on her every word!
She causes herself major problems and drama, then expects me to clean up her mess.
I know that when my Aunt passes, she will know that I did my best!!
I fear that when my Mom passes, she finally gonna know exactly how I felt about her!
So how can two women who grew up in the same time frame be so opposite??
I truly believe it has everything to do with NPD.
So we all have to deal with the grief, the denial, the anger and hopefully acceptance!
We will never be able to move forward until we accept the fact that we may have been delt a crappy hand, but we don't need to let it define us!!
Reading all of your posts, I know that you are all strong, intelligent and perfectly capable women!!
I feel blessed to be able to pour my heart out to all of you!!😘
That's probably really true. If my mother were a queen she'd be constantly stirring up palace intrigue among the court. She has such a compelling need for praise and adoration, I really feel sorry for her sometimes. It's so sad that she's been seeking validation from other people all her life, when the only true peace comes from within.
I'm working on the compassionate standpoint, but right now I'm just wondering what my endgame is. I haven't talked to Mom in almost a month. Honestly? it's been absolutely wonderful. No having to listen to whining and "poor me" for hours with no recognition that others are having a hard time during covid too. In mother's mind I have it made because I have a good marriage and a savings account... she actually tells me she's jealous of me all the time. What an odd thing to say to one's child except that as we know nmoms think we're extensions of them, and she maybe actually is jealous of what I've been able to achieve - especially in my marriage because I'm not hobbled by a crippling personality disorder that makes me put myself first in any given situation. Consequently I'm probably more able to participate in the normal give and take a healthy marrage requires.
I know I'm probably going to wind up having to get back under the yoke eventually, but I'm trying - mostly failing, probably - to think of how I'm going to manage her and this situation without absolutely losing my mind. I've been really depressed lately, due to covid and spouse being out of a job for so long. He's been leaning on me pretty hard for support too and we of course can't go anywhere or do anything fun like we used to, mostly we watch TV and play video games. But Mom won't care - if I just know if I call her it'll all start right back up. How lonely and pitiful she is (because she decided to live alone although we have other friends/family members she could move in with), how she doesn't have any money and how "nobody" helps her and my aunt (when my cousin is busting her ass for my aunt in some truly heroic ways) and bla bla bla. I'm sure she thinks she'll be able to manipulate me into coming over to deal with her hoarded home. But perhaps I ought to think of this as I learned in some scuba diving rescue training years ago - if you let drowning people climb up onto you they'll drag you down with them. I'm not any good for anyone else if I'm absolutely a basket case myself.
Perhaps I should just take as much time as I need to sort of get my balance back and ignore the opinions of other people and whatever they think I "should" be doing vis a vis Mother. They can't possibly understand what it's like to be the target of an nmom's control and manipulation issues unless they have one themselves. I do think she has some friends and community support who'll step up to help if I can somehow maintain some distance.
Shell: "She really wants me to move out and have me come over everyday to make her dinner, clean the house and do all the maintenance. Not caring that I just cannot do that! I have an autoimmune disorder and stress is the last thing I need. She knows this, but doesn't care." Sounds like you and I need to stay in touch vis a vis boundaries. Is there anyone else available who can help at all? Like even family friends or local charities?
I can relate. Let's keep talking on here to remind ourselves that perhaps what needs to happen is, ourselves getting more comfortable with Mom's DIScomfort since to a great extent nothing we do is going to make them complain less anyway.
I mean, obviously if mother has a fall and is in the hospital I'll come and see her, and help out with arranging hands on care, but I do think I've been doing more for my mother than I should have been. She's capable of calling other people to help her instead of expecting me to sit on the phone for hours listening to her complain, then give up my own life and personal resources to do things *for* her. She's not incapacitated. Time for her to step up and do a few things for herself.
Elaine, the Cymbalta seems to have leveled off in terms of side effects. Her pain has lessened in general, I think....although she's reluctant to admit it. Her dementia has worsened in that she is talking daily about the need to call her mother and go see her sisters and brothers who are all dead. She thinks she lives elsewhere and needs to go home, which is typical of later dementia stages. She's sleeping better too which is pretty significant bc she had quite a lot of sleepless nights before Cymbalta. A lot more wetting the bed and falling out of bed though. As far as our phone calls go.....big change there. She calls every night saying it's me again....just letting you know I can't make it over again tonight. If mama calls, let her know where I'm at. She's in a rush to get off the phone, like something urgent is pressing. Odd, bc all she ever did was complain before the new med. She'll sometimes tell me "me and the girls are going out for dinner tonight" and other assorted stories, so whatever. She thinks they go to one of the ladies sisters house for dinner.....very weird. I just go along with all the stories and it's nice not to be arguing all the time.
Then you have NM, who will go down kicking and screaming every step of the way, hissing and snarling, saying foul things to make us all feel bad ALL the time. Petrified to die, zero pain tolerance yet made fun of dad ALL the time telling him he had NO IDEA of what REAL pain even felt like! Only SHE knew real pain, meanwhile he is the one who had cancer and a brain tumor!!! Only now with the Cymbalta has her foul mouth calmed down a bit, thank God.
One of the worst things these women do IMO is chronically complain to US about everything, like you said. We absorb that pain and negativity if we're not very careful which is dangerous, to say the least. It never dawns on them that all their constant misery hurts us! Nor do they care. They just want a vent....like a toxic smokestack to spew their fumes out of 24/7. As if we can fix it. Makes us feel useless for not being able to, and I often think THIS is the purpose FOR the toxic venting. To make sure we feel their pain and our uselessness.
I have to think someone would call me if there's an emergency. What's keeping me from picking up the phone just to check in, tho, is I know it'd be all about her and how miserable she is instead of anything going on with me or the fact that she gave 10 bins of my stuff to Goodwill. I guess I'll just keep milking the situation as long as I can.
still dealing: "And my mother, nag nag nag, complain complain complain, nothing is ever good enough...today she said she is 'giving up" and 'doesn't care anymore'. Ok."
Yeah, mine does stuff like this too. I'm so sorry so many of us have to deal with all their BS.
In an effort to try and get Mom to stay put instead of moving into an apartment, I have been leaving messages for the Director to call me and let me know if they have a smaller room available. The monthly savings would help. This woman will not call me back!!
I honestly can't say that I blame her!! She's washed her hands of my NM! "Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!" UGH!!
I've gone low contact with my Mom, however now she finds lame excuses for calling me almost everyday!
Sometimes I don't answer and then the guilt sets in.
I'm still working on my guilt issue!
It's just so doggone frustrating!!!
(((Hugs)))
We went to counseling together and after getting past our anger and guilt, we learned to calmly say "i love you, but i have to go" and either hang up or physically leave when they started in on us. The first time we each did this we were skipping around the house and high-fiving each other - and got to enjoy "no" so much we over used it as if we were two year olds.
Long story short - we DO have pleasant conversations and relationships with our parents - and we do enjoy time together. they learned after years of our boundary enforcement. Did they like it - hell no. Did they fight us? Yes, over and over. Did they get friends and relatives to call us and chew us out? Yes - all the time. We never explained - just "good talking to you, i have to go" click. Without explaining to every friend and relative - it fizzled out. Nothing to grab onto - nothing to fight about.
It took years to get to where we are. BUT you always have to be on your guard. The NM and NF will come up with a new demand - especially as they are aging. I have said "NO" to washing windows, to cleaning apartments, to having them live with us, to donating money so they can live beyond their means. Each and every time when the Narc is ready to get into it - we disengage - we leave. Or hang up. But we are calm and polite.
It is possible to have a good relationship eventually - but you have to hold the boundaries, over and over, and be on guard for attempts to encroach. Good luck.
Welcome!!
I didn't know when I first posted this that so many of us are dealing with caring for narcissistic parents!
You're insight is most appreciated!!
There is no body left to help her. She has chased everybody away. We never went to church and she refuses to believe she needs help except she wants help from me time-to-time!
I have an older brother by 6 yrs. He is just like her. SERIOUSLY! They are two peas in a pod! He is an alcoholic and a junkie! He is very abusive emotionally, verbally, and physically! All he wants is my NM SS checks, this house, so he can pick through it like a leftover turkey and have my 77 yr old NM wash his clothes, cook and clean up after him and his HOMELESS buddy! So he is out of the question!!! Haven't talked to him in 2 yrs after he tried to blackmail me, which is a long story! Any hoo, He got mad at me because I laughed at him & told him to go ahead and try it then I told him to never call or come over here again! He has sent people by here calling me names when I am outdoors, or threatened me!
So no, there is no one!
Big hugs to you.
My mom has terrible edema. The only place that I could buy shoes for her was Walmart.
I had to go in the men’s section but I couldn’t dare tell her that they were men’s shoes because she would have never worn them.
So sorry that you had a rough day. It is exhausting!
Oh my gosh, don’t even mention compression stockings!!! Those were a living nightmare all around!
What about bras? Geeeeez! My mom had no boobs. She is so thin! So buying a bra is difficult too.
Everything is difficult, right?
She complained that I didn’t buy the exact shade of face powder or lipstick, yada, yada, yada...
My mother is such a perfectionist! Just once, only once, I would have liked to hear, ‘It’s fine, honey. I know that you tried your best to please me.’
Do you think that was wishful thinking on my part? Don’t answer that! 😂
Oh well...thank goodness, my caregiver days have ended.
Now my brother and hospice are doing it.
They will never deal with it as long as I did! 20 years, 15 in my home.
I don’t know how I survived!
I know that you have been through the mill with your mom. You haven’t been in the best of health yourself.
I never dreamed that my mom would still be living. 95 is a long time! I know that you must feel the same way.
I swear for as bad off as they are, they are still going strong. Kind of like the ‘energizer’ bunny!
Brand names.