Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
I just thought the grippy socks would work because of her having neuropathy and is in a wheelchair. I thought well she's not walking around so what about grippy socks?! Didn't think about her getting on & off the pot! As long as you have found something that works for her-at the moment! Thank God for the little things!
Just remember to take care of yourself!
My NM was/is the same way. She always used me for emotional, mental, and physical help, but never bothered my brother. H3ll she treats my SO better than me. I get her mean, nasty, and ugly words while my SO gets her somewhat kindness. She also believes men over women. If I tell her something she blows it off, but if my SO tells her the samething then it must be true because he is a guy!
My NM pited my NB and me against eachother. She started it when I was 7 yrs old and my NB was 13 yrs old.
Now there is no chance for a relationship because my NM taught him that I am nothing more than someone to be used and abused. Isn't it just disgusting mom's pit their kids against one other?
Now, I just have to find away out...I am done...I have been crying all week because of everything she has done to me & everything she continues to do to me!
I just cannot find the answer on how to get her out of my life...many on here have tried to help, but yet there is still no answers. Heavy sigh!
Sending you a huge hug. Hang in there Lea, your DH is a tough cookie.
You described it perfectly! You really did. Thanks.
My mom never took me seriously because I was expected as the daughter to automatically do it all!
Sons were not expected to carry out any responsibilities.
My mom never mistreated my husband. She wouldn’t dare show her true self to a man.
Our moms want to look like the innocent damsel in distress to a man.
They wouldn’t ever berate a man but they never hesitate to cut down a woman.
It blows my mind how women pit against other women like they do. I see it all the time.
We should support each other, not tear each other down.
What’s truly sad is, these same people who attempt to tear us down become infuriated if we defend ourselves by standing up to them.
Well, that’s just too bad for them because I decided that I definitely will not allow them to steamroll over me.
We may have tolerated their crap for awhile but no one in their right mind will tolerate it forever.
I am so proud of you for deciding that you will no longer allow your mom to call the shots.
Sure, nothing happens overnight and not everyone one realizes the mind games that our moms play. It takes awhile to wake up and make an escape plan.
Shell, you have suffered a long time, just like I did and I wish you the very best in life.
I know in my heart that there are better days ahead for you.
I had things to do yesterday and also wanted a day off from my NM. So I told her in advance I would be busy, and also working (yeah I still have that fake job). I also invited her over for dinner the next day - which is now today. At first she acted okay with it, but then during the day she kept calling and coming up with excuses to engage and get together. I held firm, and she copped an attitude which just got me off the phone even faster. All I could think was - I freaking hate this! Leave me ALONE!
Then later I see my sister hamming it up on Facebook with her friends talking about trips and my sister saying she could fly them there in a heartbeat or meet them anywhere, anytime. I wanted to vomit. There are no words for the absolute resentment I feel towards both of my do-nothing siblings who are fine to watch me drown in this mess DAILY while they freely live their lives with zero help with any of OUR mother's issues. I am so bitter towards them. And please, don't anyone tell me- THEIR choice, MY choice, blah, blah, blah. Yeah bullshit, they have abandoned the situation because they are selfish. Period. I could write volumes on how I've been there for them through the years. My brother's incarceration, my sister's affaire, etc. NO MORE. In fact I look forward to the day when I can tell them both to take a permanent hike out of my life for good.
So... I'm mentally preparing for the hours my mom will be here later today. It's what I have to do every single time.
I will say though- and this may seem surprising given how I just ranted - but I've gotten a bit better at acceptance. I don't LIKE it, but I accept that I can't change it. I know my mom can't help it that she has dementia which makes her narc traits even worse. Sometimes I think of what needs to be done (regarding her care and issues) and I consciously tell and remind myself that she is not the same person anymore. She is legit ill. Her mind is failing and it just keeps getting worse. In some way I've accepted that I will have to be the one to see it through and get her into MC. Nobody is going to help me except my DH. It is what it is. The only thing that will change that course is if my mother changes it herself, and moves on her own, but that isn't going to happen. So here we are.
I hope all you ladies have a good weekend. As good as possible. If you need to blow off steam, come here and vent. It really helps.
Your welcome! That is just what I notice!
AND your right, women should support one another, but it never happens except for here! Oprah did a show about "Why women see other women as competition?" And would you believe that it starts in middle school? Movies, TV shows, parents, teachers, and friends feed into it and that starts the ball rolling and that ball just keeps getting bigger as we get older!
Our NM would 'NEVER' let a man see their true colors! Then the world would end! My SO does see my NM nastiness, but she thinks he doesn't!
I took a stand against my NM awhile ago; however, I am paying the price for setting boundaries!
Thank you for your support and for you just being you! You are so kind! Hugs!!!
Piper,
Thank you for your kind words! I do and have set boundaries and it is exhausting because I live with her and she is always giving me push back or stealing something of mine. Yes, most of my stuff is locked up and that just make things harder!!! I can't leave anything laying around because it will come up missing!
I would never tell you it was your choice or their choice to not take care of your NM, and all that bs! She was their mother too and it wouldn't kill them to help you out for 'at least' a few hours a week!!! But hey, their lives are not being effective so who cares...RIGHT!! But if it was one of them they would be calling you and begging for help! But trust me on this, they will get what is coming to them...Good or Bad...we ALL reap what we sow! I have seen it to many times and it will happen!!! Mark my Words!
Of course, your resentful, I would be too! H3ll my loser NB does nothing and has nothing and I am resentful of him! Must be nice to wake up everyday and go see your friends and get drunk or high and not have a care in the world! Not that I want to go out and get drunk or high, but it would be nice to wake up without a mile long list of things to do!
We all deserve so much more than what we are getting! Hugs!!
Thank you both. You gals are so awesome!💕
As I was writing this a song came to mind...
Timing Is Everything(Country Strong Soundtrack)-Garrett Hedlund + Lyrics / Shelby Bennett
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajuuMRecoKY
After rapid Covid tests of course.
My anxiety level tripled on the drive there!
We had a chance to talk to the Director of the facility. In a nutshell, she offered to lower Moms rent $800.00 dollars a month so that she could stay were she is!!
When we told this to Mom, she came up with several excuses that I hadn't previously heard, as to why she needs to move.
I absolutely see what she's doing!! But I am powerless to stop it!!
Honestly I'm not sure what is going to be more exhausting, constantly trying to maintain boundaries and dealing with her crying and guilt and dealing with my "Flying Monkey" brother or just doing her bidding?
Right hand to God, I will never do this to my children!!!
More tomorrow when I can read in more detail, but just wanted to say this really resonated stilldealing: "I, too, was trained by NM to always feel like i had to take her calls (horrible experiences, always) when SHE called, and then i stopped answering and just returned calls when it worked for me (not at work, calm, not rushed...). Of course, she didn't like that, and tried to push back hard and nastily. I stuck with my program, and she quit calling. Took a long time of persistence on my part."
I think this is how my month of NC is going to end with my mother. I just need her to back off. She calls, texts, emails me constantly. I don't have the time or inclination to provide so much attention. She needs to call other people. She has friends and we have a big family.
Have been thinking about how much contact is right. How often do you talk to your mom? I'd love to do only a couple of times a week so maybe that's what I'll stick to. Right now I'm not answering emails and texts because plain and simple I just don't feel like it. I think she had one of the flying monkeys leave me a message tonight and I'll ignore that too!
Oh, and - I haven't talked to my only sibling for 18 years so sign me up on the 'crappy brothers' list. He's as BPD as they come, sadly and won't be reliable to help care for mom.
I wish I had the answer to your question!
I have tried to set boundaries with NM. Phone calls two or three times a week. I have found that she now pushes the envelope. She never called me in the past. She waited on me to call her. Now she has started calling me if I don't call her! Almost on a daily basis!!
Everything I have read about narcissism tells me that they know exactly what they're doing.
I think that's what is holding me back a bit, because it's still so hard to believe that my mother could be sooo manipulative !
Yet all of my logical reasoning to her about why moving into an apartment is a bad idea, has fallen on deaf ears.
Narcissists make these decisions based solely on what they what! They truly don't have any clue about what it may do to us.
We're obligated to clean up their messes. Right?
Part of me thinks that my NM is anticipating my boundaries and is looking forward to using it to get sympathy!! Poor me!! My only daughter won't help me!!
I'm trying to arm myself for battle. I just hope my mind and body will stay strong!!
I'm serious, now is the time to do it. Jodi what do you think would happen if you told your mother "Don't move by me, I don't want you to, and I won't be available to help you. I'm at a stage in life that I need to focus on my own needs"
Would that stop the move? Forget any fury or rage, do you think it would stop the move? If so- I urge you to strongly consider doing it. The rage will eventually pass. Her moving and the guaranteed high-jacking of your life could take MANY years to "resolve".
Hellbore I think your situation is somewhat similar in that NOW is the time to establish what you will and will not do. Even if it means an uncomfortable confrontation. Keep your mind on the goal. I'm pretty convinced that some of the fights with my mom before the dementia got worse DID help as far as her ridiculous expectations of me. This didn't come about because I had learned to master some mental skill, it came about because I was on the brink of a true breakdown and was ready to sell my own condo. I was literally at the point I did not care what she thought of me, or how mad she got, I was losing it. So now- the dementia is making things harder (again) but I don't think as hard as they would be if I hadn't laid it out for her that I was DONE if she didn't adjust her expectations of me.
I just don't want you ladies to have regrets down the road that could be avoided now. Something I should have done 4 years ago.
Shell looks like you and I are stuck for awhile with them having easy access due to proximity. I envy people who successfully got to the point of MC placement. Not in a malicious way as I know the journey to get there is like hell on earth, but it's like the last stop. We all see how much Lea still does for her NM, but with MC it will take a lot of pressure off.
thanks so much piper and chris as always. Your experiences really are instructive. That's a big part of why I've gone very low contact this month - mother needs to get a taste of what life is going to be like without me around 24/7 to whine to and make unreasonable demands of. My mother is not incapacitated. She's 82 and has limited mobility and energy, for sure, but there are things she can do for herself and since she's been in her local community for 20 years she knows other people she can call and ask.
I'm still trying to decide what to do about Mom's limited resources and her determination to move somewhere closer to me. Unfortunately even if we sell her home there'd only be enough money for around four to five years of assisted living at the current rates in the town we live in (largish city in the US South with absolutely skyrocketing cost of living.) My guess is mom would outlive those funds and she's sharp enough to know that plan B would likely be spending her down for Medicaid nursing home since I'm not going to spend spouse/my own retirement savings for her care and I am not moving her into our house. Maybe I could be noncommittal about the moving her into our house and say something like we could try AL for a while and see how it goes. She is easily the most manipulative person I know so I think I can work into not feeling guilty turning the tables on her a little bit.
I think I'm going to start working on telling her she needs to stay in her own part of town because she knows a lot of people over there. It's kind of hard to explain but we live in a fairly large city and I live across town. If she moves over here it will cut down a lot on people who might be called to come deliver her food or run her to an appointment - she doesn't know anybody much on this side of town and I don't want it all to fall on me.
If it looks like I'm going to wind up stuck with her moving to a condo or something a few miles away I am going to start making calls to see what resources are available since I effectively have no siblings and my cousins aren't around. Rides for seniors, adult day care, that kind of thing. I think Mom is envisioning coming to my house every day and that is most definitively also not going to happen.
chris wrote: "I contrasted that with my experience of barely being able to leave the house, never mind take even one holiday, and I knew I'd done the right thing in moving her out. She looked so good because she spent her whole life putting herself first! I will drop these albums off with her and she can do what she likes with them - at least she has those memories from that period in her life.”
Hear, hear. This whole recent no to very low contact episode has given me some real insight. I was pretty miserable even before covid hit due to being guilted by narc mother into providing too much attention to her and my aunt both. Now, after a year of covid with way too much contact from them both on top of spouse job loss and loss of 90-some percent of fun activities I am deep into a serious bout of depression. Having experienced this before I know if I don't save myself no one else will.
Did *they* spend all their time entertaining and providing for elderly relatives when they were in their 50s? Hell no. My aunt took care of my grandmother, but my mother lived in another state from their parents and left my dad when he developed a serious illness and needed care (which then fell to me) so she does not have a leg to stand on.
(Unfortunately aunt is really difficult and spends the whole time on the phone complaining in such a loud tone of voice that you can't get a word in edgewise, so I try to text and send cards. However she also gets care from several of my cousins and nearly nobody helps me with mom other than a couple of family friends.)
I'm going to have to keep working on my attitude and protecting myself/DH and thanks a hundred million times to all of you who help me do this!!!!!
I'd tell her to back off but a.) it'll make things worse, since it always does whenever a narc parent perceives one is trying to evade their control, and b.) it'll just lead to a torrent of BS about how "selfish" I am and how poor pitiful & persecuted she is, which is the whole reason I want to get away from her to begin with.
What to do, what to do. Guess the answer is probably continue to stick to my guns, answer maybe every 10th message, and ignore it. For some reason it's really bothering me that she's pulling people who are mostly my own longterm friends into this though I can't say I'm remotely surprised.
My Mom doesn't have dementia, but has severe mobility issues. She uses a walker in her apt and a scooter the rest of the time.
Her ALF is 30 minutes from me now.
I have told her in no uncertain terms that she needs to take me out of the equation. I am willing to grocery shop and visit once a week. (I can live with that) She insists that she can do it herself! I asked her how long? No answer.
I feel as though she thinks she's out smarting me, but she doesn't realize that I fully understand what I'm dealing with "Narcissism ".
My saving grace is that apartments are extremely hard to come by right now. We're in the middle of a housing boom. I honestly don't think the company she hired is going to be able to find what she needs. So I will leave it God's hands!🙏🙏🙏
Chris, thanks so much as always. I don't think Mom is trying to isolate me as much as she's just extremely needy. I can virtually guarantee she's panicking right now because she thinks I'm going to leave her forever - both because her mental disorder gives her a "soul hole" which can never be filled, but also in her heart of hearts she knows she's done some truly rotten things to me such as making me come home from college to help take care of my terminally ill father when she decided to leave him rather than take care of him herself. There's also a bunch of stuff to do with her prioritizing my severely mentally ill half brother and letting him abuse me, mostly psychologically luckily.... it's a long story. I do ask myself why I don't just walk away sometimes, but mom isn't 100% a monster. For a long time I've known something was really wrong even if I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
Now that I've realized it's likely NPD I do have some sympathy in the sense I'd have that for any other mentally ill person. Honestly I really don't want to see her suffer, but I also don't want to 100% give up my life for her care.
Vis a vis the Facebook thing I'm just going to put her on my Restricted list so she can only see things I set to Public. Hopefully that will stop prioritizing posts in her feed on which I've commented - I can also just pick up the phone and talk to my friends instead of posting on Facebook. I've been working on making myself do that anyway since I need to be less enmeshed with mother and since depression has been making me isolate. One of my friends in particular definitely does know how things are with mom, we're like sisters and I can call her any time of the day or night which I definitely do not take for granted.
Luckily DH and I each got a covid vaccine lately so the end of this hell may actually be in sight. Oh, and, speaking of DH he is definitely on my side in that mother threatened to disown me if I married him - luckily at the time I realized I'd never have a life of my own if I let her break us up. So I stuck to my guns and she only made it 4 months, although she did succeed in ruining our wedding in some ways.
She'd have only approved if I'd married a really rich man because she'd have assumed she herself would be taken care of - her mental disorder makes her put herself first in all things. Luckily even before I knew she likely had NPD I stopped taking this personally, it's just how she is. I think that's how I'm going to talk to her about this once I do have a conversation with her again - if I tell her I think she has NPD she'll go to her grave denying it but she might be able to hear some things if I talk about "how she's wired" and similar, which I also do with her ADHD (which I know she has both because she has all the symptoms and because it's heritable, and I have it pretty much dialed up to 11.)
I have been watching a Netflix documentary on Jeffrey Epstein.
The forensic psychologist determined he was a narcissist.
I watched as the prosecutor intentionally provoked him. The result was Jeffrey attempting to get up and walk out of a deposition!!
How many of you have had your NM get up walk out of a family gathering after being confronted?
Watching this totally resonated with me!! I can't even count the number of times my NM has left a gathering in a huff!
I remember one thanksgiving years ago my moms refused to go to my aunt and uncles house. They were HER family members. The rest of us went anyway and she just called up yelling and screaming and ranting and raving about my father.
My Aunt finally had to take the phone off the hook so we could eat in peace.
Yes, my NM has VaD dementia! However, I still push back and keep boundaries, which is why my life is h3ll!! If she doesn't like my boundary or I do or say something she doesn't like then it is "Hello Ms Nasty" comes out. She will take something of mine, say something nasty, move things around on me, and she has even tighten the collar on my cat and it almost choked him "twice"!
The more I push her away and set boundaries the more crap she does!!
However, I suspect that her pancreatic cancer is back and probably has been for a few yrs. Of course, she has stop seeing her Dr. She has refused palliative care and no longer take meds, so there is no way to know for sure. She is showing many of the symptoms of pancreatic carcinoma including she smells foul even after a shower. She had a Whipple done in 2012 when she was Dx with pancreatic carcinoma, but refused chemo and radiation!
Maybe this is awful to say or write, but it brings me great peace to think she might just be out of my life forever! I just want her to go to a Hospic facility and be done with her!! If that makes me a bad person then so be it, God knows all I hear from her is how awful I am. How I am a bad person. How I am mean and evil I am!!! Yup, that's me...been taking care of her since I was 9 and cleaning up her messes. Took her to rehab when I was 15 yrs old for her alcoholism and again when I was 38 yrs for her drug use. Gave her thousands of dollars over my life time. Saved her house and health insurance in 2018. Countless times of seeing her through surgery, heart attacks, and illnesses and much much more, but I am the bad person! Never got a thank you or a hug just countless of all forms of abuse! She was never there for me when I needed advice, or help...NOPE!! Instead she dragged my name through the mud and made everyone believe that I was the problem!!!
I too am envy of those who got their NM into a MC or something, and like you, not in a bad way, just that one last stop! At least not living under the same roof!
Hellebore,
Like you, I knew something was off, but never could put my finger on it either!!
I couldn't get through this without all of you. It is comforting to know I am not alone, nor is this all in my head (not crazy), and that not only is this a real thing, but it has a name!! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! 💞💕💜
It's always someone else's fault!
Right??
If a narcissist feels cornered, the only recourse is to run!
After causing a huge stink of course! Lol
One thanksgiving we were going to my aunt and uncles house and she forgot to bring some pictures with her. OMG!!! She ranted and raved the whole time that my father had RUSHED her out of the house!!!
Another time both of my parents were going out to dinner with both of HER brothers and their wives. 2 hours before it’s time to go she decides she’s not going. So my father went by himself to see HER family!!!!
Of course when she would retell the story she said she was appalled that dads father yelled at her because he never yelled at anyone!!! Well duh!!! She started it!!!! She leaves that part out.
It's so sad that you have that memory instead of something pleasant!
I'm so sorry that what should have been a happy memory, has turned out to be something you look back on with disdain!
It shouldn't have been that way for us! Yet for myself, I feel it's made me stronger! Except when it comes to my Mother.
Oh the irony!
I call it selective memory, just like some people have selected hearing too!
My doctor had me try Lexapro. I took one pill and I felt like it was erasing my whole mind, my whole thinking. I felt like I didn’t have my brain anymore. I went off it and haven’t taken anything since.
I have crappy memories of my mom too. I only allow a certain amount of time in my head for it. Otherwise, I will become too depressed. It is horrible to remember the unpleasant times.
I only call my mom once or twice a month. It’s all that I can handle. Plus she can barely hear. I don’t stay on the phone long.
Sometimes when things change, we can’t ever go back to the way it was or what we thought it was before.
It’s not about holding a grudge. It’s not about forgiveness, none of that.
I don’t believe in grudges. I do forgive. I don’t think we ever forget the pain though.
Did you tell the doctor how those meds made you feel?
I talked to my therapist during that time and she helped me without meds.
My other doctor retired and I have been seeing a physician assistant. If I ever want to go back on meds again I will contact a psychiatrist.
I didn’t put too much trust in the physician assistant.