Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Jodi: You're welcome. Hope your procedure went okay. Have not heard the word, bum since my mother - lol. Good job on the weight. I recently was able to shed 62 # of heredity factor hypothyroidism weight.

Shell...I now see my DIL posting all stupidities on FB about how DUMB she finds breastfeeding and when she turns her back for 3 minutes, her newborn spits up, omg. Really? Imagine such a thing, a baby spitting up?? And this from the woman who was telling me all about how she erected a special gizmo that would allow her to position her new baby on her stomach while she ........PLAYED VIDEO GAMES ON THE 90" TV SET! 🤣 I about peed myself when she told me that little fairy tale! Snicker.

What I learned from therapy and $1000s spent: You vill never be friends vith your mudder. Oh duh.

Thanks for your kind words.

Tonight my mother was getting dressed to go to Brooklyn (from Colorado) to visit Papa (who died when she was 16). Sigh. Sad how far downhill she's gone.

Jodi, hope the procedure went well. Look after yourself this week, yes? Beatty is so right and full of insight about those who really call up out of curiosity rather than concern - it’s a good idea of hers to have a few non-committal phrases to fob them off with.
I agree with all that has been said about FB. People want to be a star in their own show but often lack judgement and perspective about content.
Lea, I felt so sad when you wrote that you can’t tell your NM anything. It made me realise that is a big, big issue in the lives of people with NMs. I imagine for people with “normal “ mothers, they are able to tell their mothers anything, unburden themselves, seek non-judgemental advice, and in other words receive unconditional love and support, with whatever is going on in their lives. For us, we have no idea what it must be like to have this. There is a gaping hole that can only be partially filled with good intentions from others. That is why we become so self contained and ultra independent - because at times in our lives we will have had to survive on our own without the crucial bedrock of motherly love. There is no peace of mind, no warm embrace, no sanctuary from an NM.

Chriscat, I agree. I agree with what you said about our NM mothers. Where is the I love you? Where is the warm embrace, where are the hugs and kisses? I had all that when I was about 4 years old.

Heck, when my own father died in 1998 and I ran over to her to give her a hug, she turned away from me and told me she couldn’t hug me because she didn’t want to break down, she had a funeral to plan!! I kid you NOT!

Elaine, I’m sorry your mother couldn’t provide that emotional support when your father died. Sadly that is an abiding memory for you at a time that was already dreadful enough. My mother was the same when my father died. They had been divorced for decades so she had no formalities to deal with regarding his funeral, but was unable to physically or mentally reach out. Her only comment was to complain that I was late in preparing dinner that day when I got the news dad had gone. These types of experiences are things you can never forget. I can’t recall ever receiving a hug or kiss from her, so now if she grabs my arm or hand to steady herself when getting up from a chair it makes me cringe and I feel completely repelled by her touch. Shocking but true.

Chris & Elaine ,

Where is the love??

When it comes to our NMs, it's not love unless it's all about them!

When my NM posted my cancer diagnosis on FB, it truly wasn't about me!! It was her wanting sympathy and being the center of attention.

I absolutely get it now! I didn't get it at the time. By the Grace of God, I knew to keep my mouth shut!!

To this day, she has no idea the sh!+ storm she caused. Somehow I think she would get off on it!
So I will never tell her.

Choose your battles very carefully!!

Save your energy for the battles that truly matter to you!

Came here to do some catch up reading; I find the posts here resonate so much...but I am having so much trouble finding any answers or comfort right now. Recently, my dying NM said some very terrible things to my beloved brother, about me. She was either 'projecting' at the time, or trying to 'scapegoat' me through a 'flying monkey', my brother. In any event, she dumped upon him, since I have gone completely no-contact for the time being. He then repeated what she said to me, almost as if retching to release himself of her bile. Horrible things: "Good thing your sister never had children; she would have been a terrible mother. Her 'kids' would hate her. Those grandchildren of hers don't count..." My poor brother went on and on (he has little insight into her manipulation, alas), until I cut him off and changed the subject. But it hurt badly. Why would she strike out at me through my brother? Especially since she really is dying. Is this the way she wants to leave her memory to me? (Probably. I find my NM has little to no ability to understand 'consequences'. I am sure she ascribes my 'no contact' as me just being hateful, since she can't accept she herself is the reason.)
Background: I had no children. I made the mistake of telling my NM some 15 years ago I very much wanted children, but that it biologically couldn't happen at that point. I now have two adult children and four grandchildren by marriage, with whom I have an excellent loving, supporting relationship. They are the family I always desired, and I am good at being a wife, mother and grandmother. Those feelings amongst us are mutual. My NM is intensely jealous of these relationships, as they do not fit her narrative for me (ie. that I am too selfish and mean to have a good and loving relationship with my husband, his children and our grandchildren. I think she also resents seeing my family's healthy dynamics; I think she actually realizes that the family dynamic she gave her own husband and children was terribly flawed, and is embarrassed that I escaped its legacy, and have outed it for what it is.)
So: A few days after her hateful, spiteful words were repeated to me (via unwitting brother), I realized: she is 'projecting' her own feelings of having been a neglectful/abusive mother onto me, and absorbing the fact that her child (me) has seen through her 'mother' lie, and has rejected what she is. (Narcissistic mother in the extreme.) To that, I say good. At least she is thinking about her wrongs (even is she trying to cover them up psychologically, with her 'projection' maneuvers).
She is also still using me as the family 'scapegoat'. (I did some reading about 'scapegoats' and sadly, have to wholeheartedly agree that I was THAT PERSON (eg. scapegoat). She 'scapegoated' me in the brother incident by attacking me behind my back and not able to defend, by insinuating her children must hate her because we made her stay in the 'horrible, ol' hospice ' facility instead of letting her lie in her own filth at home.
She often uses my brother as her 'flying monkey': complaining to him of my transgressions (translated: not catering to her every unreasonable demand...) He repeats to me what she says. I'm not sure why. I really don't think he harbors any malevolence toward me; in fact, he and I are quite close. (Aha, that is why she uses him; she tries to manipulate him into forwarding her guilt and obligation onto me...since I have effectively distanced myself from her physically, verbally and emotionally, but she knows he and I are in contact often.)
Anyway, I wanted to share this. Maybe some of the 'projection', 'scapegoating' and 'flying monkey' discussion will help some of you sort through what you have experienced with narcissistic mothers. I can't say these realizations have helped me; other than to reinforce that I must stay no-contact for my own well being, even if she is dying. Thank you for listening, and for your support here.

Shell- you said you might have to forgive your mother? I am curious; why do you feel that way? And how does it occur? I ask, because I really struggle with the concept of 'forgiveness', and yet feel a great deal of societal pressure to 'forgive'.

Still,

I think you need to do what feels best for you!!

What are you able to live with after she passes?

God knows she's given you a life time of grief and guilt!

I pray that you can live the rest of your life without NM causing guilt even after her death!!
You don't deserve that!! You've been a wonderful daughter!

God bless!!
(((Hugs)))

Stilldealing; I'm really sorry you had to hear all that toxic filth your brother passed onto you from your NM. I think you need to have a serious talk with him; it sounds like he doesn't understand how badly it affects you to hear these words your NM has to say about you. She obviously says hurtful things b/c she KNOWS he will tell you; it's her way to get to you via him b/c you are not seeing her. But HE needs to be made to understand what it's doing to you & how you never, ever want to hear ANY MORE 'messages' from her again. I'm sure he will understand completely and commiserate with you fully.

I honestly do not believe these women can see past the tips of their own noses, even while preparing to die. My own NM allowed her DH of 68 years to die w/o telling him he was a GOOD and decent man, and letting him believe he was worthless as a human being, right up until he died! WHO does that? A narc, that's who! Can't see past the tip of her own nose. Can't show love b/c they don't FEEL it. Unfortunately, all of that sickness THEY have affects OTHERS, namely US and all the poor family members they come in contact with! I'm sure your NM is horribly jealous of the relationships you've cultivated with your DH and his children and your dear grandchildren. FWIW, my mother says the same things about my DH (2nd marriage) and his kids/grandkids..........that they 'don't count' as my children or grandchildren or her great grandchildren, either. She knows it pisses me off when she says that, but honestly, it's what she FEELS! Just like she feels that I am not 'her child' b/c she adopted me. These women cannot love to BEGIN with, then throw in an 'adoptee' or children from a 2nd marriage and run for the hills! They're all up on their high horses passing judgment and letting us know how it 'doesn't count' and all that horse manure. Thank God WE know better and WE have the capacity in our hearts TO love and to recognize ALL of these wonderful kids as 'our own'.

As far as 'forgiveness' goes, how does one go about DOING that? We can use the words, "I forgive you", but to feel it in our hearts is quite another thing, I think. Forgiveness is for US, not for THEM. But again, I have no idea how to go about actually DOING it; accomplishing the goal which I've personally had for a very, very long time. Because the dirt keeps getting dished out; so just when I think 'maybe' I can do this, BOOM, here comes another low blow. And then I think, nope, not now, I can't do it. I pray about it all the time, too, asking for the WILLINGNESS to forgive, b/c that's really the crux of the matter: the willingness to let go of the angst. It's easier when my mother gets sad and weepy, wanting to 'go home' and see her 'papa'; that opens my heart and makes the possibility THERE b/c I can see her humanity. So I hope it's a doable thing for me and for you, too. For all of us actually, b/c carrying anger & resentment around is like drinking poison & hoping it will kill the other person.

Sending you a big hug tonight.

Still,
Lea hit the nail on BOTH HEADS!
LIke Lea stated "Unforgiveness is like drinking a bottle of poison hoping it will kill the other person." We forgive for ourselves. It sets us free! When we have Unforgiveness because someone (our NMs) hurt & did us wrong then they still have control over us. They're not still upset about things from 20 yrs ago or 10 yrs ago or 5 yrs ago or a year ago or even a few days ago. They forgot all about it! But we remember and we carry it with us everyday. We wake up with it and we go to bed with it! So really, who is free and who is not free? The answer, they are free...free to control us beyond the grave...free to have their words rolling around inside our heads...they die and we pick up where they left off. Telling ourselves that we should have done this better or done that better. That we're not good enough...not worthy of love, peace, joy...we still tell ourselves every nasty thing they have ever told us...whether we realize it or not! We make poor decisions because of the things they did & said to us...Are we free? Nope! Forgiveness=Freedom!

This is how I look at it, my NM stolen the first and part of the second half of my life. "She Will Not" & I repeat "She Will Not" steal the rest of my life. Now, if your wondering have I forgiven her? Nope! BUT I WILL!!! How? I made a pact to myself & I even told my NM this "When she dies I will bury her with my anger, bitterness, and resentment." When she dies I will be free to forgive because let's face it, it is really hard to forgive someone who keeps running over your foot with a truck! When someone keeps hurting you you really can't forgive them and anybody that tells you different has never really been that hurt!

Forgiveness is NOT about them nor is it saying what they did is okay. It is about you letting go all the negative emotions that THEY caused you. It is also about THEM NOT having control over you anymore!!!

Second nail: Lea is right! These women CAN NOT see past their own noses. They can't think things through when it comes to someone eles. Why do we feed babies? Because we know (from experience) that all living things have to eat. We know what it feels like to be hungry. Why? Because we have "EXPERIENCE IT!" These Narc women have no experience or capability of seeing things through someone else's eyes! They Can Not see past themselves! Their world is all about them and no one eles.

I'll explain in a new post...this one is getting a little long!

Shell & Lea,

Beautifully put!!

It's not like we can tell them to their face "I forgive you ".
Can you imagine how that conversation would go!! Lol

So we just have to wait until they're gone to let it go!

Have a great night ALL!!!

"Can't see past themselves!"

Every thing is about them...every thought...every desire...every emotion...every want...every need...every decision is about them.

I have looked over my life as if I was an outsider and picked it apart a million times and put it back together again and every thing that went wrong in my family is because of my NM made decisions based on HER OWN understanding and what SHE wanted.

These women are 6 yrs old and played house and we were their dolls!

I have read on the Narcissistic Personality Disorder brains. The part of the brain that is responsible for empathy is dead. In a CT scan and a MRI shows no activity in that part of the brain. No Empathy = No Remorse! Their brains don't process information like ours does. They usually have an I.Q. (not all) lower than average. They have no E.Q. (Emotional Intelligence). They are emotionally stunted. And the worst part is, they NEVER test their own thinking & understanding and they don't trust anybody else's abilities of thinking; therefore, they lead to their own understanding, which can and does lead into problems. They have no idea the damage they cause and because they have no empathy; they don't think about what they say or do something how it can effect or what impact it makes on the person that they are saying or doing the thing too! However, they are clever! They learn very early how to behave or how to act in our society. They also learn what they can and can not do in front of certain people. Example, my NM never treated me bad in front of my dad. She showed me love (somewhat) and she "Acted" very caring in front of my dad, but the minute he went to work she was as cold as ice or beat the crap out of me! They also learn how to manipulate people and situations at an early age. They are extremely controlling and they know who they can control and who they can't. They do not like anyone who they can not control and they hate being faced with their own mistakes. They have a set of standards that everyone must meet, while they themselves can not meet their own set of standards. They know what hurts who and they are not afraid to use it! However, as you and most of us know, they take no responsibility for it! Nothing is ever their fault because that would mean they are less than perfect!


These women CAN NOT show love. Love by definition "Is putting someone's needs & wants before your own needs & wants" Weberster Dictionary. These women can not nor do they even know how to love someone. Back to the example of why we feed babies...if you never knew what love looks like or you don't understand what love is then how can you give love? You can't! You have to experiences love and you have to have the desire for love. In my opinion, these women do not desire real love. If they never wanted a hug then how do they know to hug us? They don't! My NM never hug, snuggle, or gave me kisses because she herself never got them, nor did she want them!!! "We can only truly love when we desire love!"

I really hope this helps!❤

Shell......the people who cannot feel empathy? They are also known as Sociopaths. Who have a lot of the same personality traits as narcs.
#truth

Lea,

As usual, spot on!!

I think about my brother that committed suicide 3 years ago.
He was my half brother from my NM first marriage.
My Dad adopted him at age 4 .
My Dad may not have been perfect, but he did the best he could trying to raise my brother who was always very troubled. I know that my NM intervened any time my Dad tried to impose punishment for my brother's bad behavior!
My Mom blames my Dad for everything issue my brother ever had! Never taking into consideration that his bio Dad never wanted to have anything to do with him!
My brother lived in my younger brothers basement. Because of his bad choices, he had no life. Yet my NM continued to defend and caudle him to us(his siblings).
The morning before he killed himself, my NM had been berating him for something. She did this often! She doesn't think I know!
My NM places all the blame on my Dad and my sister in law (my younger brothers wife).
It's ALWAYS someone else's fault!!
I pray when we pass that we understand the hurt we caused and can send healing to the LOs we've hurt and taken for granted!

Jodi, what an incredibly sad story. To think your NM was berating her son the night before he ended his life, and here she is, blaming your father and her DIL. Your brother has finally found peace from his troubled life, thankfully, that's my belief. And that once we pass, we relive life thru our loved ones eyes to FEEL the hurt we've caused them. What better definition of "hell" is there?

Lea,

I pray that's true!!

God knows my brother had his demons!
He was unwilling to except my help or advice.
God knows I tried to help!!

I wonder if my NM is simply trying to deflect blame or guilt by passing the buck !
I mean, surely she must feel some sort of responsibility?
Is it possible that narcissists truly don't feel any sense of responsibility for their actions?
Or do they feel it and use the blame game to mask their feelings?

It boggles the mind!!

Catching up on the posts of the past 12 hours, it’s made me think about the whole issue of “forgiveness”. I think you can beat yourself up about whether or not you forgive your NM, but where is the rule that says you have to forgive? If the pressure is coming from society or other people, it’s really none of their business whether you forgive or not, as the experiences you’ve been through are intensely personal and unique to you. If you’re pressuring yourself to forgive, but don’t feel able or willing to, then you’re building up a whole load of unnecessary guilt and feelings of being a failure. To forgive or not to forgive is a very black and white way of thinking. Sometimes I wonder whether indifference is a healthier way to feel.

Lea-thank you so much for your thoughtful and insightful post. And Shell, your post about forgiveness was very helpful. Re: Forgiveness. I don't think this is something I can do (let go of the anger and resentment), until NM dies. I think its my shield right now; keeps me from letting my guard down (since I pretty much only deal with normal people now day to day, which makes it easy to forget how disordered my NM is). And Xray-I believe your NM does feel some remorse for berating your brother, but can't accept her responsibility due to her personality disorder. Hence, the blame always going outward...
Did some insightful reading this morning about "narcissistic collapse": It explains why NM's behavior has completely deteriorated to nothing but blame, complaints, and verbal assaults (on anybody and everybody) with the dying process.
Thanks to all of you here, for taking the time and having the courage to share your experiences.

stilldealing: I was just telling DH the other day how it's SO much easier to feel anger & resentment towards my NM than anything else (like compassion) b/c it's MY shield, just like you said. We have to have SOME sort of protection for ourselves when dealing with them, after all! Once she's gone, THEN I feel like all the BS will be behind me, and the healing can begin.

Jodi, who knows? Once in a blue moon I hear my NM say something that makes me believe she DOES feel badly about her behavior. Right after dad died, like literally 2 minutes later, she sort of cried and said she felt bad b/c she 'wasn't very nice to him.' I was shocked to hear her say that. Then she calmed right down again, and never said another decent word about him again. In fact, she never talks about him at all. So really, wtf knows WHAT goes on in these women's minds and hearts? I think they're SO out of touch with their own emotions and feelings that they stay buried in a charade of false faces 95% of the time. I have no doubt my NM has NO IDEA who she is! She's whoever she HAS to be at any given moment to survive.

Lea-I also wanted to add that your advice to tell my brother not to carry anymore of my mother's insults/guilting/verbal abuse to me is very well taken! Next time (if there is, he's a pretty decent fellow), I plan to have a gentle talk with him about the harm mother is doing to BOTH of us, with her manipulations. I believe he will understand. Thank you.

Shell,

You nailed it!

I am curious from you and any others who wishes to chime in.

You hit on something very pertinent to NPD or other disorders.

Many people that have mental health issues are able to ‘hide or fake it’ in front of others.

I know that you had a wonderful dad. Did he ever suspect how your mom really was? Was he in denial because he truly loved her or did he make excuses for her?

Let me share why I ask. As most of the forum knows, my husband’s grandmother was truly a self centered person!

The family suspected that she had mental illness. She thought that the world revolved around her! No one else mattered unless she could use them to her advantage.

Her husband, my grandfather in law was so kind.

He desperately tried to get his wife to speak to a psychiatrist but of course she refused because she honestly believed that everyone else was wrong, it was never her!

My mother in law, their only child went through h*ll with her mom.

She felt so badly for her father but went through a period of being angry at her dad.

She felt as if he protected her mom too much by not divorcing her because she refused help.

I think she saw her dad as an enabler but she herself ended up doing the same thing with her mom.

I used to beg my MIL to write her mom off when she was being so cruel. My MIL just couldn’t do it. It’s easy to fall into a trap. I know this from my own experiences with my mom.

I know that you are planning to be on your own when you can and I am thrilled for you.

I am curious as to what you feel about how your mom will be on her own.

What happens to these self centered people when left on their own? Do they usually get worse?

Still, no one should ever feel guilty about leaving to save their own sanity.

My MIL did leave once. She moved to Florida. She said she was happy to be away from her mom but missed her dad.

Her mom nagged her so much that she returned to Louisiana. Yep, she caved. Big mistake!

I feel that NPD is one of the hardest personality disorders to treat.

Do you feel that if people did not make excuses for them, in some cases deny a problem, or allow them to continue being horribly selfish that it would be possible for them to get better with help? It seems like they are hopeless which is so sad. Sad for them. Sad for family and friends.

I know a woman that is extremely narcissistic that when others abandoned her, she tried to kill herself and landed in a mental hospital.

Later on, she told me that she knew that a suicide attempt would get their attention again! Now that is extreme!

Awhile back I saw an interview with Phil Collins after his fourth wife left him.

He said that he always felt that they were wrong but after four women told him the same complaints that it must be him!

Interesting, right? So, how many people do you think it would take to convince someone that they had issues?

My grandmother in law would easily make friends because she was charming but as soon as she showed her true colors they left in a big hurry!

Narcs certainly turn the lives of others around them upside down.

NHWM,
I really don't think my dad knew about my NM until he retired and seen how she really is; however, I think he thought she was that way to him but not to us kids. My dad worked 70 to 100 hrs a week as a Chef, so he really wasn't home much as us kids growing up. I think he stared figure things out about her because he said to my NM that "marrying her was his biggest mistake he ever made and he wished he never married her." My dad never talked bad about anyone nor would he ever say something like that and that being said tells me that she pushed him to his breaking point. My dad was very reserve, matter-fact kind of person; in fact, you could tell him anything and it stop at him. I believe that if he knew what she was doing to us kids and/or knew what she was really like he would have got ridden of her. But I'll never know the truth. About 6 months ago, I woke up at 4 a.m and heard him say, I'm sorry" in a whisper. I believe that was him apologizing to me for having a crapping mother!

Shell,

That’s how I feel about my sweet grandfather in law. He died a broken man.

By the time they knew things were horribly wrong they didn’t know what to do. They were in over their heads.

People placed shame on mental disorders. The stigma was worse than it is today so I am sure it was hard to talk about.

It’s hard knowing that a parent abused their kid. You know that your dad was so very sorry that she hurt you.

I’m sure he is with you now. His spirit is with you.

Still,
I think for most of us our Unforgiveness is a shield. I never really thought about it that way, but it makes sense! You don't have to forgive her right now. But remember forgiveness is not a feeling. It is a choice. Words of my dad "Emotions has no logic. Only logic has logic." In other words, emotions are just feeling that come and go like the wind and logic is knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. This is how he explained it to me.

I haven't forgiven my NM either. I just wanted to give you and others something to think about!

I also wanted to tell you it really hurts and sucks when we figure out that we are the scapegoat kids. It is a pain like no other (in my opinion). Because we got slapped with a label that we didn't deserve nor asked for then we were cast-out, blamed for everything, made to feel like sh@!, and as if we didn't belong, a mistake, and in some cases isolated. But we do matter, we do count, their unhappiness has nothing to do with us and nothing is our fault, but it lays at their feet! You do what you need to do to survive! You do matter and you do count in this world! And it sounds like you have a great family and don't you dare let your NM take that from you by saying your stepchildren are not your real kids because what does she know...NOTHING! Hugs!!

Chris,
The Bible tells us to forgive so that the Father in Heaven will forgive us.
Psychology tells us to forgive for ourselves; moreover, forgiveness frees us from being controlled by the one who hurts us.

For me, I have seen what Unforgiveness does to people. How it impacts their looks, health, relationships and how they see themselves and the world around them! That is why I will forgive my NM when she dies!

Moreover, I am with Lea! There is no way for any of us to forgive our NMs until they die. Once they are gone all the bs stops and the healing process can begin and maybe then forgiving them will be easier. Like I said, "it really is hard to forgive someone when they 'keep' running your foot over with a truck!" As long as they keep hurting us we can't really forgive. And I feel the same way as Lea. My anger and resentment keeps me safe and it keeps my NM at a distance!

Thank you NHWM. I am sure when my dad passed on and saw his little girl's life through her eyes and all the pain & abuse she went through and he wasn't there to stop it it broke his heart!

Speaking of him being with me...I keep having this dream of him in a white room. He is sitting up in the middle of a white bed and he has on a white t-shirt and white underwear. He calls me by my nickname then he calls me by my name and tells me that he has something to tell me and calls me by my name again, but when I say, "what dad?" I wake up. I have had this dream 4 to 5 times, but I always wake up before he can tell me what he wants to tell me. It is really weird!

Xray,
To answer your question "Is it possible that narcissistics truly don't feel any sense of responsibility for their actions?"

I think they have moments in time when they do have a sense of responsibility, but only if they see the consequences or they are shown how their actions caused the consequences. But like what Lea told me, "Narcissists don't like negative emotions therefore, they push those feelings on to their kids and therefore nothing is their fault. I think they lie to themselves more times than not!!

I only say this because my NM is dying and she wants something from me. Perhaps to relieve her guilt or forgiveness...in truth, I don't know what she wants. But something has change...it is like she now see how horrible of a mother she was, but to me, I just see it as away of trying to manipulate me...gaslighting me!

But I do believe they do have moments of feeling responsible for their actions; however, it is very short lived!!

How heartbreaking your story is about your brother and how your NM berating him the night before. These women are truly evil.

I really believe that after we pass we do see what we have done to people good or bad through those people's eyes. We will have to give account for what we have done to others. I also believe that not everyone will go to Heaven. The Bible is very clear that some people will go to h3ll. So the fact is, some of our LO will end up in h3ll! Sad, but it is true!

Shell,

Call me crazy if you like but I believe that your dad is trying to convey a message to you, most likely something that will help you.

It’s strange how we have these dreams that seem so real.

In my dreams, I don’t always see faces. Sometimes, I can see the face but not always. I wake up wondering who it was.

As far as forgiveness goes, I think we have to be patient with ourselves. We will forgive when we are ready to.

I forgive now but went through a time when I wasn’t ready to do so.

I never hold a grudge though. I don’t want the negative feelings effecting me.

Shell,

I did witness my Mom cry once after my brother's suicide!
I don't know if was guilt or honestly grieving the loss of her son. It will forever be a mystery to me !

NHWM,

My Uncle also died a broken man!
I just wish he had shared with me what he was going thru!
Sadly, I understand now!
He had severe health issues and was just worn out by dealing with their abusive son and my Aunts dementia! He simply gave up !
Although he was literally on his death bed, I feel as though he waited for me to get there !
I whispered in his ear "I promise that I will take care her ".
He died shortly thereafter!
A death bed promise that I am totally committed to see through!

It occurred to me that growing up with a narcissistic mother is like an extremely deep splinter.
If you don't deal with it, it festers.
And the longer you let it go, the worse it hurts!.

We deal with the pain in different ways.
What works for me, may not work for you!

Our common thread is that we have Narcissism in common!

I am so grateful that I have all of you as a sounding board!!😘