Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
Thanks for the book tip. Places do have personalities!
We were sitting our grandson yesterday & watching a show on Netflix called The Great British Baking Show which we immediately fell in LOVE with! What we noticed straight off is how NICE the British are to one another! Vs. the Americans who are not. LOL. We are going to finish watching the series here at home. The challenges are UNBELIEVABLE that these contestants are given! The first one was to bake a Battenberg (which we had to Google) which was SO complicated, then 6 mini pineapple upside-down cakes, then cake BUSTS of famous people (!) PHEW! Have to finish watching episode 2 later today where the poor souls were making Florentine cookies. I've always enjoyed British TV & I forgot how much!
NHWM: The MC and the ALF never want to 'kick out' a resident, even when they become more than the facility can handle. My mother was WAY more than they were able to handle for at least a year before she went to the hospital and then rehab in 2019. When the nurse came to do an evaluation of her at the rehab upon release, that is when the determination was made that she could not return to the ALF, but they would take her in their MC bldg instead. That's how they were able to (nicely) get rid of her. Now, in MC.......there is nowhere for her to transition to in the same AL/MC so she would have to leave their place entirely and go into skilled nursing (which it's time for, really).
I'm so sorry for the continuing issue with NM. It's a rotten feeling to secretly hope they will just pass away nicely in their sleep(and soon)!
I'm fairly certain you've been there! Hang in there!🤗
Hellebore,
IMHO, if you let NM know that the pics hurt your feelings, she will rejoice in the fact that she accomplished her goal.
I have ceased letting NM know that she hurt my feelings.
And yes, you kinda answered your own question. She will twist it to be about her! How you hurt her after her thoughtful gesture!🤮
I wouldn't give her the pleasure!
When I get the venue set up, I'll take some pics and use one as my profile pic. I hope it turns out the as I see it in my mind! Lol
(((Hugs)))
The show you describe is a huge UK ratings hit, just affectionately abbreviated to "Bake Off". I remember the episode you watched, a fairly early one I think. The creations got crazier as the show got established. Just wait until you see the "showstoppers"! Yes, everyone is terribly polite on the programme: " after you, no, after you, please, I insist" and there is no b****ing about fellow contestants - that would be very bad form. You mentioned Battenberg cake - we had to make that in school cookery class. I've never baked it since!
Thank you & I do feel like I am healing emotionally, physically & mentally. I am no longer waking up with a dreaded feeling like NOW what is she doing or has done!
It is good to get your sister to help out. I know I use to get nausea and had bad stomach aches and it was all stress. I think your body is telling you that you're under to much stress.Take care of yourself. I know that sounds easier than done. Hugs!!
Chris,
Thank you! Your right, this will be the last time and she's not here to make things difficult for me! As far as my NM'S side of the family goes it will be easy to ignore because they're never been around much & they won't be now because I won't give them what they want. Oh well, I lived this long without them. I can go the rest of my life without them! I will not be controlled by any of them. I refuse!! Painting will be good for you and don't let anyone take that from you!
Xray,
The group has grown a lot! I too just love the support I get from everyone here. The best part is that we have people that know what it is like to have a dementia narcissistic mother & they believe you! No one ever believed me when it came to my NM. Her side of the family doesn't believe that she could be that bad even though, they all were physically abused & highly mistreated. Actually, this has helped me more than my therapist ever has. If it wasn't for this thread I don't think I would had ever known my mother was a narcissist. So thank you for starting this thread!
Lea,
Like Xray stated "it is a rotten feeling hoping secretly they will just pass away nicely in their sleep (soon). It is, but the alternative it just so dam painful, exhausting, and frustrating. They make our lives h3ll! You know no matter where you put your NM she will be miserable even if, she came to live with you. Not that is going to happen!! You have said it a million times that these women are miserable no matter what you do for them or give them! It just sucks that the MC couldn't help you. This is going to sound mean, but I wish your NM would just go to the other side for both your sakes. Give both of you peace! Hugs!!
NHWM,
I'm glad I could make you giggle! You needed it! It really has to be some kind of mental illness!
Side note: I have notice that all the cats seem to be calm and they're not misbehaving like they were. My NM'S cat Little seems to be happy because she is free to be outdoors more. It got to the point where my NM would let Little out for an hour or two then make her come into the house. I felt bad for Little like she was my NM prisoner. I feel at peace that my NM is gone. I just can't get over at the fact that I feel guilty. I know it wasn't her fault that she was the way she was and in that lies the guilt!
I don't think you should be feeling any guilt yourself. Your NM 'couldn't help' being the way she was but she still WAS the way she was, refused to get help for being the way she was, and making everyone's life a living nightmare.........so that part of it she COULD help. So make sure not to go down THAT path, ok? We are all responsible for our own behavior and the "I can't help it's" just do not hold water. Sorry. Just today I called my son to tell him how proud I am of him and what a great job I think he's doing with his son (both he and his wife) b/c I don't think I do that enough with my kids. So I picked up the phone and DID it b/c I know what it feels like NOT to be complimented by both of my parents. There. That wasn't so hard at ALL, being present and responsible for my own behavior!
I have always been a fan of British television so we have subscribed to BritBox. It’s fantastic! Especially, the comedy shows. ‘Waiting for God’ is hysterical! It’s set in a British retirement home.
Chris,
Do you know that show? ‘Waiting for God.’ It’s really funny! The woman that plays the character, ‘Diana’ is absolutely wonderful! She could definitely be one of the moms on this thread! Actually, underneath her stern behavior she has a heart.
To be perfectly blunt, do any of you think to yourself, the wrong parent died?
My dad passed away last year. He may be the best person I will ever know, so I'm lucky I had him for 40+ years. My mother is challenging. Charming on one end and death by a thousand paper cuts on the other. It's taken me years of therapy to find myself and to be honest, I'm still looking. I am aware that my mother has some undiagnosed issues. I am also aware that my mother can be selfish, dismissive, and passive aggressively cruel (it's easier to gaslight people that way, "Sorry I made you feel that way" rather than "Sorry I did something hurtful.") Since my dad's death, it has fallen to me to jump in and provide some general support. She's healthy, mentally with it, and has no physical or financial issues to worry about. She can take care of herself independently, has a cleaner, a gardener, a handy man, an accountant. She's been left with the means and resources she needs and the ability to use them. My role has been largely emotional support. Interestingly, she doesn't really subscribe to mental health supports. She is resistant to therapy, medication - it's fine for other people, she herself just doesn't need them.
But, she does have anxiety and it manifests itself in a variety of ways. More specifically for me, my suggestions are routinely dismissed, my information is regularly wrong, and pretty much whatever comes out of my mouth can be debated or argued. It's exhausting, so I've learned not to share much or if I can't help myself to not engage in a dialog about it, because it usually ends with her telling me what she would do in my situation, because clearly the way I handled it was not up to snuff.
This has been going on for years, made only more prominent as my dad isn't around to buffer. I have had thoughts where I thought how much simpler it would have been if my dad wasn't the one who had died. He had some memory problems and other non-serious health issues, but I can't help but feel fate got it wrong. That I wouldn't be wringing my hands with anxiety over dealing with my mom's silent treatment or gaslighting or whatever other passive tantrum she might throw in order to get me to do what she wants. It breaks my heart, because I really do want to like her, but there's so much baggage that it feels impossible to get there. So the very most I can muster up is some compassion, which helps convert anger or resentment into a mild indifference, but is still not helpful in making me feel better about the situation.
I can't shake this feeling. It feels selfish and heartless. And it doesn't help that I'm the child responsible for being available (as I live in the area and my siblings all live hours away).
I know your right! I have mental health issues and I don't go around hurting, sabotage and making people's life h3ll. Even when I am having a really bad day I still try to be nice & polite to people because the way I look at it 'it's not their fault that I am having a bad day.' I know the I can't help it is just another way to not take responsibility!
I am just so sorry that your NM is Sundowning something worst. I wish I could help you. I still feel she may go soon & I don't know why! I pray that I am right!! I'll just keep praying for both of you! Hugs!!
YES, once Dad the Buffer was gone, NM got TERRIBLY worse too! And being the 'only child', I've borne the brunt of all of her rage and hostility!
Here's a good article to read:
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/#3
The long & the short of it is this: you can fix what's broken in your mother, as none of us can. Nothing is ever wrong with them in THEIR eyes, either. Medicine is for the weak, as is psychiatric help or, God forbid, self help. They're there to dish OUT the pain, not take it. There to manipulate her way into getting what she wants thru passive/aggressive means and tantrums/silent treatments rather than adult interactions and direct requests, right? Yeah, we know the drill, unfortunately.
Try not to feel too 'selfish & heartless' about all of this and about not liking her, because that's how she WANTS you to feel. All the behaviors are designed to make you feel FOG: Fear Obligation & Guilt. Which keeps you coming back to get burned again and again so she can dish out MORE FOG, and so the cycle continues. I think it's safe to say we all 'love' our NMs, we just don't LIKE them. Who WOULD like a person who's self absorbed, mean, selfish and SO self centered that nothing else exists past the tip of her own nose?
Anyway, you've come to the right place for support! We all get it b/c we're livin the dream every day.
Yes, I thought a million times that the wrong parent died. Like you, I was closed to my dad and he was a great dad/person! After my dad died my narcissistic mother (NM) got worst with me. She became out of control in every way. She just passed away 4/16 of this year & I don't miss her & that is sad, but true! She made my life a living h3ll!
If your mom has all this help then why do you need to be involved? I am asking out of curiosity! But I will tell you the more dementia kicks in the more narcissist they become! Ugh!!!
You will find support & help here! This is a great forum and a great thread...so welcome to it!!!
I also have a feeling you may be right about NM passing soon. She's having more and more stomach issues lately. She's vomiting more, and then yesterday she said she 'had to go the bathroom but couldn't' so I'm wondering if there's an issue with her GI/colon going on. IDK. She's had diverticulitis in the past as well as ulcerative colitis VERY badly in 2011. So I would not be surprised to hear there's a blockage going on...........my uncle on dad's side just passed 2 weeks ago from a colon blockage; he had surgery and never recovered. So we'll see. I am also predicting a hospitalization coming up here soon.
My NM started vomiting more and more right before she went. Hindsight is 20/20, I think my NM was in organ failure. The first system to go is the digestive system. I notice that my NM wasn't eating much solid foods, but she was eating pudding, soups, jello, broths then it was she couldn't keep soups down. Then she couldn't eat pudding or jello. She just started to drink tea & broth. She wasn't using the bathroom very much the last 2 weeks of her life. But of course, she would tell me that she wasn't feeling well and I would ask if she wanted to see a Dr and she would say, "no." Then I would ask her if she thought maybe it was time for hospice & she would say, "no." After awhile I just stop asking her!!! I really wished that I would have put her on hospice...but you really can't make anyone do anything, especially if they are h3ll bent on doing things their way! She wanted to leave this world her way & she did!!
You can rant to me any time! If it helps you then rant away my friend! You are very welcome!!💜
After a year of inaction concerning mom's episode, I confronted ( probably not the most fortunate choice of terms) her visiting PRN about mom's dimentia. Mom did tell the PRN about her fall due to giving the DOG oxygen. I felt like that might have opened a door for a conversation. Also the PRN looked directly at me when she asked mom the question " how many times a day do you take your oxygen?" Mom answered in long form, 2 times a day. I shook my head. PRN reworded the question ( genius move, on PRN's part, really. If she makes the same statement when the question is posed in such a way as to sound like a different question,her answer confirms if she's lying, confused, confabulating or misunderstood the question or being truthful) mom gave even more false details, said 2 times a day and I shook my head again. PRN said her OXSAT was good and then they started the conversation about meds.
After the PRN was finished and leaving, I talked to her outside. It's not my style to do this outside of the earshot of all parties involved but I have to accept that my open and up-front, in-your-face style hasn't had a positive result so far. So, I changed my strategy. Here's what I said:
"I need your ear for a moment. Look, Her neurologist isn't helping her. Take a look at your notes, you'll see that ( previous PRN, name redacted) and I talked about issues before but this has gotten rediculous. Her neurologist is enabling her and I have no idea why withholding a diagnosis would be therapeutic. She's got some kind of dimentia and she's starting to sundown. You can see in your records that she's had every test that would rule out anything physical that could possibly be causing cognitive problems. It's time we took some proactive steps and start addressing the real cause."
Right after that happened, my best friend in all the world and neighbor messaged me that she's in the hospital. She's pregnant and her amniotic sac might be ruptured.
Please pray for this young woman and her baby. This is a miracle child for her and her family. Doctors told her she could not have any more children after she had her adorable little girl. I can't disclose my bestie's name but I don't think it matters. Prayers don't really need to have addresses on them.
Thank you wonderful ladies. I'll get caught up soon.
I miss all of you very much.
Welcome!!
It's not selfish, it's survival!
My parents had been divorced for 40 years. I didn't really have a relationship with my Dad for years because of my NMs constant flood of poison about him(I now know better).
I often wish that my NM was gone and my Dad was still here!
I miss talking to him and I miss his advice!
You're not alone!
This is a wonderful place to unload!!
(((Hugs)))
Kudos!!!
I pray that you finally get someone to see what you already know!
Praying for your friend and her baby.🙏🙏🙏
EP,
I hope I'm not over stepping, but have you tried an antidepressant?
I have been on Cymbalta since January and it's helped me tremendously!😘
Lea,
There are no words to tell you how I feel for your current situation!!
All I can say is that we're all here for you!!
Hang in there!!
(((Hugs)))
I was doing so well & now I feel like I am emotionally spinning out of control. The last 2 nights I have been jumping out of a dead sleep. I wake up & I am standing...afraid & confuse! My therapist said that I am suffering from PTSD. I tell myself that I am safe and that my NM can't hurt me in any way. She is dead then I go to her room to check to see that she is not there! What is happening to me & why now? I probably won't sleep much tonight either. My SO works nights, so I am home alone, so no comfort there!
My therapist said something today that keeps playing in my head...that my NM is evil because all the emotional, physical, psychological, verbal abuse that she did to me. I don't know what to think! Was my NM an evil person or did she just do evil things?
Thanks for reading!!
I had a meeting today with one of my adult daughters and HER daughter's preschool director; GD is being evaluated for special services and we were doing a pre-pre-meeting to discuss results and our strategy to get GD what she needs.
The world of preschool education is where I spent 23 of the 28 years of my career; the director and I talked shop, dropped names and I promised to pass on some information about a poor performing program to the "right people".
My daughter said "Mom, you are such a narc!". She and the director laughed.
I mulled that over this afternoon. I texted her later "did you mean that? Do you really think I have NPD?"
She texted back "Mom, a narc is a narcotics informant...a snitch. Geez, you are SO unhip".
Oy. I really had a moment there.
Hahaha! My daughters always tell me that I am ‘out of the loop!’
If the dreams don't stop, and you have symptoms of ptsd, go to your regular doctor and ask for meds. I had bad PTSD in 2000 after I found my birth family and could not function. Paxil helped me tremendously. Don't wait a long time like I did.....nip it in the bud quickly before things get really bad. I could not bear noise. My startle reflex was thru the roof and I jumped at the slightest sound, and had to wear earplugs in the house! It was awful. I couldn't sleep or eat....all I did was cry and think about dying. Those were a few of my symptoms that Paxil took away, thank God.
Sending you a big hug dear Shell.
I am so sorry that you are having a tough time. It’s a tough situation. It takes time to adjust.
The only person that can truly answer for your mom’s behavior is your mom. I have unanswered questions too. I have seen where some people, don’t know themselves why they do what they do.
I hope you start to feel better soon. Wishing you all the peace and joy that you deserve.
I will pray for your pregnant friend that she finishes out her pregnancy and has a healthy baby.
I was grocery shopping at Wal-Mart today and my phone rang. It was a local government official asking if I knew my husband (he called him by his given name)? I'm like whaaat? He wanted to speak to him but didn't have his phone number. I asked him what the call was all about and then he said he was with the Coroner's office! My brother in law apparently collapsed in the parking lot of another Wal-Mart and was found unresponsive......dead, in other words! I have no idea why MY phone number was in my BILs phone? Ugh. I was shocked. He was 70. I had to then call DH with the news. He's going over to his brothers place tomorrow to pack it up and some other family members will help him. Then we have to arrange for the cremation after an autopsy is performed. Nobody knows where the 2 daughters are.....they went no contact years ago, which further complicates the situation and holds up releasing the body for 10 days. A mess, really. Anyway, I have a headache tonight after a long day.
I know the difference between doing evil things and a evil person. I am just wondering which one is my mother. But your right there really isn't a reason to put a label on her now. She was mentally ill that has become clear and maybe a more healthier way of looking at her and what she has done. My Dr cannot put me on any more meds because I am already on meds and both are small amounts because my body doesn't do well on meds as it is. So it's cognitive therapy for me. Thank you so much for your support & hugs!!
NHWM,
You hit on something...I don't think my mother knew why she did the things she did. I don't even think she knew herself, perhaps she didn't know why she hated me so much! Thank you so much. I wish you peace & joy as well. You deserve it too. Hugs!!
Thank you Barb for the giggle. I needed it!
You gals are so great! I count myself blessed to have a great supportive group!❤
That's the last thing you need!!
I'm so sorry!!
It truly seems when it rains, it pours!
Sending you big ((((hugs))))!😘
Geeeez, what a shock about your BIL. I am so sorry.