Today I had my first appointment with an actual therapist (not a counselor).
Even though one hour wasn't long enough to spew out everything I need to talk about, this woman completely picked up on 2 truly major points.
1) Even ONE of the stressors I have been dealing with over the last year is more than enough to warrant therapy!
2) I have been the "caregiver " for everyone in my family since I was 12 years old!
She asked me what I do for myself?
I had absolutely no answer!!
Hence therapy!! Lol
Caring for a narcissistic LO is a labor of love!
Not because they will love us back, but because we need to love ourselves!!
How do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO?
What do you do for yourself?
(((Hugs)))
Our moms could be clones!!!
I can't count how many times my Mom has stormed out of family get togethers because things weren't going "her" way!
I totally understand the constant feelings of guilt.
My therapist helped me understand that as children of NMs, we were taught that we earn love by what we do for them. So if we're not constantly doing things for them, we're not loved.
I'm to the point that I truly dread talking to her! I set the boundary of not talking to her everyday. That worked for a while, but she has started calling me everyday. I have decided that when she calls me today I will simply ignore it and wash down the guilt with a big glass of wine!! Lol
She knows full well all the work you have done. Like Barb said it's GOOD that you recognize this as manipulation. I just want to add that I know how it *feels*. My mother is a MASTER at using guilt trips to manipulate. So much so that all of my life I have carried around this feeling that I am guilty of...... something. A vague sense of having done something wrong and like I OWE some kind of payback.
When I was in therapy in 2019 the therapist spent a lot of time talking to me about this guilt complex, so I became more aware and started trying to work through it. One day I was having a conversation with my mom and mentioned that I felt guilty about something - nothing big- I think I said I felt guilty for not getting my dogs in to get their nails trimmed sooner, something like that- and she said to me, and this is verbatim "You feel guilty for waking up in the morning". I was stunned and changed the subject. But that comment stayed with me, and made me realize how deliberate and cruel my mother's manipulations can be.
Her guilt trips aren't as effective now. I get angry as opposed to feeling unexplainable shame and remorse. In fact just last eve - my mom was here for dinner and we were watching football. She wasn't the center of attention so she started to get annoyed and got ready to leave at halftime. On her way out she makes a snide remark to me that "You used to walk me home, I guess not anymore".
I ignored her, but I also got angry. I frequently walk her home because nine times out of ten I'm helping her carry food back or something else. She was purely being a manipulating narc because she wasn't the center of attention. How dare the Super Bowl be on when she wants to talk about how the cloudy weather is pissing her off.
Then these types wonder why people don't enjoy being around them.
Anyway Jodi, if your mother tries to make you feel guilty call her out. Remind her of all the work you have already done, and start telling her that you are planning to move. She is actively trying to set the stage for getting her hooks further into your life. Don't let her do it.
You aren't selfish; you are SANE!
Besides the "I hate the food here ", she is saying that she can't afford to stay there much longer. I reminded her that my brothers and myself have offered to help financially. She told me that she has asked my brothers for help, but has yet to see it. So I texted my brothers and as I suspected, she hasn't asked either of them!!
The manipulation is off the charts!!
This morning when I attempted to talk about why this move is a bad idea, she turned it around to me being selfish because I don't want to help her. She apparently doesn't recall the fact that I spent the better part of 3 weeks unpacking her things, hanging curtains, lugging empty boxes down two floors and out to the trash and turning her apartment into a bright happy space!!
My saving grace at this point is that affordable housing in our small town is very hard to come by. And it's doubtful (I pray), that the property management company will be able to find her an apartment that will meet her needs and her budget!!
Because she is of sound mind, I can't stop her. That doesn't mean I have to make things easier for her!
Chris: You are right. I often say these women have never been told to SIT down and SHUT up so they know their histrionics and theatrics usually wind up getting US to cave and giving them THEIR way. They've used these tactics their whole lives with GOOD results, so why change? NOW is the time to say NO and to put your foot down HARD. Plant that seed in her head about YOU moving SOON Jodi, and that will throw her off balance as well. Give her the idea she'll be stuck in a new apartment alone, with no family around to bail her out of yet ANOTHER mess she's created for herself. These women are unfamiliar with consequences to their own actions b/c we've always been their PILLOW to fall back on.
Anyone notice that a narcissist is not asking you to do something, not asking you permission, and there is never an opportunity to answer "NO". ???
It all just comes about, through manipulation.
What would happen if you said this...when Mom is making plans....
"Oh good Mom, moving sounds really like a fun distraction from a difficult year. Hubs and I have been discussing moving too! We think moving to Florida is a good idea! I have been looking and looking.
I read a great little book the other day, Isabel Wolff's "The Very Picture of You". There is a useful subplot about a narc mom whose lies and manipulations almost ruin both her daughters' lives. An instructive read.
DO NOT DO IT UNDER *ANY* CONDITION!!
I'm telling you right now if I had a time machine!!! It doesn't matter what she tells you, once she is there you will be stuck in a nightmare. Your mom doesn't have cognitive issues so you won't be able to force her out once she is there.
If you think having trouble saying no is hard now, picture waking up DAILY knowing there will be another go around of having to go through the extremely frustrating and triggering experience of having to set and enforce boundaries with this emotional vampire.
And by the way, I say this with zero judgement because I DID exactly what your mom is trying to guilt you into now. I fully get how HARD it is to say no to these types of mothers. They groom us to be their physical and emotional slaves and it is so ingrained as adults we experience cognitive dissonance HELL.
I'm only getting slightly better out of sheer exhaustion. Bottom line, I can't stress it enough do not let her move one inch closer to you.
If it were me, I think I would write the letter. That way you can take your time and choose your words. But then I would talk to her, on the phone, using the letter as a guide.
Mentally prepare that she will freak out, and blunt your emotions before you call. Then calmly stick to your script. When she throws a fit put the phone away from your ear. Get out the important message, which is NOT MOVING CLOSE TO YOU, and then end the call, and turn off your phone.
Stay strong, you can do it.
Even if it stays in your email draft folder, or in a drawer. It may make you feel better getting it out. There may even be a book!
Great advice!!
I appreciate your input more than you know!!
Why is it so hard to put into practice?
I'm gonna to try my best to tell her, but if it turns into a battle (I suspect it will ) I will write her a very detailed letter.
Who would have ever thought that caring for our parents would turn out to be so difficult??
But....so, mom blows up. She can't harm you. She can't hit you, take your children away. She's gonna yell. And you can walk out.
There is great power in not caring how angry your parents get at you when you're an adult. You are no longer that terrified 8 year old who HAS to keep mama happy.
You're absolutely correct!! The trick is trying to let her know how I feel about it and not have her explode at me!! When she gets like that, she doesn't hear a word I say.
I'm considering writing her a letter!
Any thoughts on that?
Thank you!!
EP,
I forgot to mention that Mom is currently in ALF. She still has her mind, but her body is shot!!
As for friends, she hasn't had any friends for as long as I can remember!! She calls me her BFF.
She hasn't formed any friendships at the AFL.
I know full well that she is gonna park her butt in her recliner all day and complain to my brother's(both out of state) that I don't visit enough.
She lives 30 minutes away from me now, but has the property management company looking for a place in the closest town to my home. Ugh!!
Well, no it has been anything but fine! She has no life, no friends, can't drive, is miserable and the dependence on me has greatly affected my life in a very negative way. So I understand. And like you one of the most frustrating things is her inability or refusal to even think of future needs, or even current needs.
With your mom, is she trying to move closer to you or further away? Also is there any way you can talk to the property management company and explain the situation and request they steer her towards something more like assisted living? If the place they manage doesn't have any assisted living, I wonder if you could get an assisted living manager from a different place to help your mom decide similar to what the property management is doing with her now?
You are right, if what she really needs is an ALF then she is just setting herself up for another move. Maybe if you call an ALF they could have someone call her, not mention you, just mention that they have lovely apartments and would love to give her a tour, like it's a cold call. Would something like that work?
Hmm. Not thinking or planning? Or not thinking & not caring? IE no empathy for you & your issues. Entitled attitude that others will provide what she wants.
Whatever the reason, I suppose you can applaud her drive for independance. Warn her of the pitfalls then let her decide. "OK you go for it! But the consequences will be all yours. This is YOUR decision & your outcome".
Reap what you sow approach.
But I SO get the pressure!
I'm off to read the rest to find what Mom's health situation is.
I told her that she needed to find away to be happy in her new place!
As I predicted, she hates it and has concocted a scheme using a property management company to find her an apartment that will meet her needs. First floor, walk in shower, basically wheel chair accessible.
She's not thinking about the fact that her mobility issues are so bad now that in just a couple years she's going to need more help. She's not thinking about the fact that she will be completely dependent on me for her shopping and rides to her Doctor appointments. She's not thinking about the fact that I'm not out of the woods yet with my cancer diagnosis! She's not thinking about the fact that she is a fall risk and will need to wear an alert system.
Again, we live in a small town!
I spoke with my younger brothers to express my concerns. My youngest brother absolutely gets it, but my other brother has proven himself to be a "flying monkey ".
"She has sacrifices so much for us as a single Mom "
OMG!!! I was a single Mom for 13 years and my children never went without hot water or heat in the house! My children never had to try to sleep with mice crawling on their heads! I worked two jobs to make sure that NEVER happened!!
My children never watched me start drinking at 9am on a saturday morning and passed out by noon!
And yet I am the one not being understand and selfish?
I am so completely frustrated and mad as Hell!!
https://www.recoveryranch.com/addiction-blog/brain-abnormalities-found-in-narcissists/
i hope everyone on this forum is doing ok!! :) courage :).
regarding narcs, i find this video useful.
saying no to narcs, and yes to yourself. :)
you asked: what do you do for yourself?
-i’ll say more “yes” to myself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dov8JjH_Mk4
My mom is well aware of what we did for her, and when she later had meltdowns and "HATED" it here and was threatening to move she told me she was only going to take her furniture. Of course that was all a bunch of BS hot air because there is no other place she can move mostly due to lack of a support system. Believe me, if there was I would be FINE with her moving, and told her that straight up. She knows I regret what we did, because I told her. But here we are, and what is done is done, unfortunately.
What this financial entanglement is going to mean down the road I don't know. That's on the list to discuss with an elder attorney later this year. I have all the records and receipts to show exactly what DH and I spent, from our own accounts, but IDK how it will ultimately play out. My mom still has plenty of her own money for care, so going into care is not dependent on selling the condo. It's dependent on her ability to live alone.
I expect that her opinion on being able to live alone will stray further from reality as time goes on, and it's going to be a battle. Nothing with her is ever easy. But I am determined that I will not do more than I am doing right now. No 24/7 care, not even close. Unfortunately I also expect that it will take some kind of crisis for her to be declared incompetent by her doctor, and then I will force the care issue as DPoA.
E.P. there is never a good time to make the move, but there IS a bad time, when you're under the gun after a fall or an emergency. I know....thats what happened to me when dad fell and broke his hip and rehab wouldn't release him back to IL. I had no idea of their finances at that time either because it was all kept a big secret. What a sh*it show THAT turned into for me, let me tell you.
I think your advice is good too. We live and learn don't we? My goal too is to move my mom into care, and I know I will have to be the one to bring it up and make it happen, but that time is not yet. I can't predict when that will be as her dementia is unpredictable. I have a few "lines in the sand" like- I will NOT do personal hygiene or bathroom duties, and I will not in any way move in with her or allow her to start living here- when she can't live alone- that is a line in the sand for me too. So I'm still in the "draw your boundaries" phase.
Back to your mom - I wish more elders would see the NEED for socialization with their PEERS. It would do them the world of good as you are seeing with your mom. My mom is extra needy because she is alone. It's bad for us both. I'm glad your mom is socializing and I imagine that takes a lot of pressure off of you.
Keep resting and healing. Just think when your son comes home to visit how refreshed you will be, and DH too. I'm happy for you both.
Don’t wait for a crisis situation before you bring up the subject of AL. I could see my mother was starting to show early signs of needing more help, so I addressed this early on. It was still a stressful situation, met with much early resistance, and we went through a period of really intense stress whilst this resistance panned out in daily outbursts, but it was still better than doing this with the backdrop of a medical emergency.
Recognise that the elderly person may never bring this subject up, however desperate their situation becomes, and that you may need to do this for them. Accept that they might not thank you for this!
Do consider your own needs and the effect that caregiving is having on your ability to take care of yourself. With a fibromyalgia diagnosis for me, this was the tipping point and the realisation that further caregiving in our home would be very bad for my own health. Already I am feeling mentally stronger and this in turn will help me to be physically stronger too. My mother is safe and has the care she needs (meals and social interaction), so the needs of both of us are now being met.
Think about the single most important goal you wish to achieve, and stay firm about this, despite any resistance or other obstacles thrown in your way. My goal was to move mum out of our house whilst still ensuring her care needs were being met. Once she could see I was firm about this, the outbursts declined and then stopped, and she began to take some interest in the new living arrangements.
Finally, ensure that the new care arrangements don’t suck you into again being overwhelmed with caregiving, but just in a different scenario. It’s early days on this one for me, but I’m clearer about how much of my time I will give, to achieve a healthy balance between living my life and helping in someone else’s.
I am still dealing with the huge adrenalin crash (exhaustion, needing to sleep more) that being relieved of so much caregiving and being the target of narcissism has caused, having lived on “high alert” for so long. But there is no doubt that putting some distance between mum and I is already having a positive impact for me. I feel I will be stronger and better able to deal with any future outbursts, which I am sure will happen from time to time.
Good luck to all in a similar situation.
nice to hear you :).
i almost didn’t see your message. sometimes it’s hard to see if someone replied.
thanks for your empathy!!
yes exactly, from 2 sides.
removing myself?
from tomorrow i start a new chapter. i focus on me. i organized everything for the person to be ok (they made fantastic physical progress), and for me to step back (i don’t mean no contact at all).
ah i see! you would like no/low contact. hug! i see, you have a plan for when she can’t live alone anymore.
thanks for the attitude comment. hug!! let’s go for it!! c’mon :).
let’s show narcs what we’re made of. happy, and succeeding even more, when they treat us terribly.
bundleofjoy