Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Happy Mother’s Day everyone 💗.

Happy Mother's Day to all!

Chris, HA! Karma came around early to bite BIL & SIL on their arses, didn't it? :) In many cases, the TRUTH seems to prevail, I know. Hard as the narcs fight to have things 'their way' and have the LIES prevail, the truth manages to find a way. And your MIL is working her magic from above, I believe, to see to it that happens!

Riverdale, I like that "we need to give up hope for a better past". At this point, I'd be relatively satisfied with 'hope for a decent today.'

I've been trying to call NM since Friday and there has been no answer, not even at 9 pm! She again has the voice mail feature turned OFF. So this morning I called over to the MC and got a CG on the phone. NM was in the activity room; I asked that she be put on the phone. I asked her why she has not been answering her phone the past few days? "It's not working" she says. Meanwhile, my son was able to reach her yesterday. So when we go by to visit today, I will have her phone CHECKED out to make sure it is operational. If so, screw it all and she can call ME if/when the desire strikes her. That's one less thing on MY plate to worry about.

I hope you all have a good day today & that your NMs do not find a way to ruin it for you.

I came here to say the same thing Cascia -- hoping everyone on this thread has as much peace today as possible.

Your desire to "let go" is one I very much share. There is nothing we can do about the past. And feeling terrified of the future is just as bad, in fact I think it's worse. That too is something we can not control, and the constant worry about every possible scenario that *might* go wrong is beyond draining. I've never seen the importance of "living in the moment" more than I do at this time of my life.

I try to do the exercise Lea mentioned on this board - when feeling anxious stop and ask yourself- are you physically okay? Is something on fire? Is there an emergency that needs to be tended to immediately? The answer is almost always no, so reminding yourself that you don't need to be in flight or fight mode is helpful. Then some deep breaths, and change your mental focus.

The other one is when feeling triggered by NMs is picture all of us behind you giving you support. Remember the words and support, the wisdom of those who have given sage advice and KNOW that not only are you not alone, but you will be okay.

Love and hugs to you all, and to those who are also mom's - Happy Mother's Day to YOU.

Just wishing everyone here a peaceful day today. Always there is a mix of emotions on the holidays for me, for what was, what wasn't and what is. I am always trying to change what is going forward but mom needs it her way so I succumb as always, and then stew- not a good plan going forward. It's never what I want or have hoped for but that needs to be let go and try to appreciate what is today. The letting go is the hardest and I, we need to try to work harder at that if there is any hope for me going forward. I am not even sure what that looks like but I know that is the only hope. Now that my dad is gone, I will try today on mother's day to try to turn my thinking around, let go, because that is the only way going forward for any peace for me.

@Riverdale Yes we need to give up hope for a better past - so true! and hope for a better future which we may then get. It actually helped me just to write this out on this forum. It is so cathartic to read comments here and thankful that I can write what is on my mind write what I cannot express with to many other people.

I realize this is likely easier read than felt.
I recently read in a memoir mired in anguish (does anyone write a memoir of a joyous perfect life?) that we need to give up hope for a better past. It was such a simple statement yet powerful to me and I would imagine felt by many here. So I am working to have it be my new mantra

It doesn’t often happen that narcissistic liars are caught out. They are usually quite clever at covering their tracks. Satisfyingly, yesterday my SIL and BIL WERE caught out. An old family friend phoned my DH to offer condolences and said he would see us at the funeral, along with a number of other old friends. I cried. It was the first bit of compassion shown to my poor DH. It was a complete long shot that he had our phone number, going back to my FIL’s funeral years ago when we last met and we’d given him our contact details for another matter. We’d had no way of contacting any of these people, as BIL and SIL have taken my MIL’s address book of contacts. It turns out many of my MIL’s old friends ARE attending the funeral, despite SIL and BIL saying in their email that none were going due to their old age. I guess this is another narcissistic trait? Isolating the victim (my DH), keeping him apart from people who would support him, then trashing his reputation as a no show at the funeral amongst these same people where he cannot defend himself and his reputation. DH has forwarded the poisonous email to the family friend, so he can read the lies about who is/isn’t coming for himself, along with the rest of the personal attack. It is some comfort to know that when the lies start, those funeral attendees who know my DH will know the truth, and will know about the lies and threats made. It’s going to be a difficult next couple of weeks, but at least my DH is now less isolated and feels his mother’s friends won’t think badly of him for not attending.

Chris: Wow - how horrible! For your BIL to send your DH a 40 page email is beyond unacceptable. So sorry that you had to endure that.

Ep....yes, yippee to Mothers Day tomorrow 🤐. I can think of quite a few Hallmark moments we can capture for the NMs in our life 😂.

Thank you Piper and Lea, your words are very comforting and supportive. My DH has not responded to the email. We are not into mud slinging and trading insults. I have now printed it off and am starting a file of this behaviour, in case we need it in the future. It is the “smoking gun”!

My DH will remain as an executor. He is very able when it comes to this sort of thing. My BIL isn’t. If he becomes obstructive, moving forward, the solicitor has the legal power to remove him if he is obstructing their ability to administer the estate. Generally speaking, BIL is suspicious of everything, feels the world is always against him and is awkward to deal with. He will be arguing with the solicitor in a few months’ time. If we give him enough rope, he will “hang himself”, ie get himself removed from his executor role whether he likes it or not.

Feeling a little better now I have written this all down.

Thank you!

Chris, there are no words for what your miserable BIL & SIL have done in your time of grief and loss. As if a funeral is their performance stage. How dreadfully disgusting to do such a thing to your poor DH. I think EP has some wise and comforting words for you. I'm also happy to hear that DH is choosing to disassociate himself from his toxic brother and SIL and spend time with your son instead. Your MIL will be with you whether you attend that garish funeral or have a nice lunch in her honor. God bless you both.

Lea, yeah I had forgotten Sunday- tomorrow - is Mother's Day. DH reminded me yesterday. 😒 No good way to get out of a visit on that day. Reading Mother's Day cards in the store practically triggers me so I stopped buying those. I do food or flowers, and tomorrow it's food for me. So I'll be cooking fried shrimp, one of her favorites.

I'll be interested to hear how the visit with your NM's grandchild goes, because I recall how she acted when you told her the news. I hope it's nothing along those lines for your son's sake.

Woo-hoo, Mother's Day!! I hate this day. I mean when is there a day when it's NOT about them? And now we have to tell them how great of a mother they are/were?? Some company should do realistic cards for the children of narcs. Could you imagine?

"Thank you mother, because of you I know what NOT to do to my own child!"

"Thanks Mom for grooming me to think I'm responsible for your needs, it led me to therapy!"

I'm sure we could think of many!

Good luck to ALL on this thread tomorrow!

Chris, I fully agree with you that your SIL is a horrible narc! What a toxic miserable horrible person to do this to your DH when HIS mother just passed all because she was told not to put on her little "look at me" show at the funeral. Unreal. Did your DH ever respond to the hateful, ridiculous email? If he didn't delete it, it might be wise to save it in case you need to show the solicitor why your DH just can't work with his dysfunctional, abusive brother.

Your DH's mother has passed. I think I would try to focus on his feelings regarding her passing, and go no contact with brother and SIL. Maybe even resign as executor if that's possible. Get his mind OFF that toxic sideshow and just focus on HIS grief- if he needs to talk, then you are there to listen. If not, you are there as a comforting presence.

I don't think you need to second guess your abilities to help your DH. Your presence and loyalty in his life helps him. As much as you want to take away his pain, it's something he has to process. But you ARE there for him.

Given how horrible SIL and BIL are, I'm kind of glad your DH decided not to go to the funeral. It's just a body laying there. MIL is not there. I'm glad he's not subjecting himself to anymore abuse.

Now, what can you do to calm yourself? Try to think back on the techniques that have helped when dealing with your NM. What helps you sleep? If you are having racing, intrusive thoughts I have recently found that podcasts for anxiety/insomnia are really helpful. I put soft earphones in and leave them most of the night. I can recommend what I have been using if you are interested just let me know.

Make small easy meals you like. Eat cake or desert or anything that is easier to get down when the appetite goes out the window. One of my go-to foods when feeling that way are home made french fries with cheese sauce. Not super healthy but I love them so I get something down. You get the idea.

I hope you and your DH can get out this weekend yourselves, and do something light and enjoyable. A long walk in the fresh air, share a bottle of wine.... whatever you two enjoy doing.

Sending you love and hugs.

Hi All, been away recently whilst trying to help DH with his mum’s funeral. Not sure where to start with this, and whether this is the right place, but the narcissist is now my SIL. I mentioned we’d had problems with my SIL wanting to assume centre stage at my MIL’s funeral, even though this is not her mother. My DH was against this, and wanted the minister to take on this role. After a week of silence from BIL, my DH received a terrible abusive email on Thursday, full of 40 years of grudges, resentments, petty grievances and criticism of everything about my DH and his entire life, from childhood to the present day, with a bit of bile about our son thrown in as well. He concluded by saying he wants no more to do with us, ever, and has threatened us if we attend the funeral. He has accused my DH of being grasping and in indecent haste to get at his mother’s money, when all he has done so far is his legal obligation to register the death, inform the funeral director and notify his mother’s bank of her death. Meanwhile the BIL, who is also an executor of his mother’s estate, along with my DH, has done nothing and taken on none of his responsibilities. All of our ideas about comforting poems and hymns at the funeral have been rubbished and criticised as being self serving and designed to make us look brilliant. There is so much bitterness, I don’t know how anyone can live with such bitterness through their entire life, and all of this has been driven by my DH standing up to them and telling them “No” for the first time in their lives. My SIL is the driving force behind all of this - we can hear her words and phrases in the e mail, and it is now clear she wants complete editorial control of the funeral service, and wants to rewrite her MIL’s entire back history with none of us in it. She also wants complete control over her husband and he is too weak to stand up to her, as well as the shocking fact that he clearly hates my DH and has done so for a lifetime. The email also said that only their immediate family and their village friends (not my MIL’s) will be coming to the funeral. All of my MIL’s other family and friends, including her very oldest friend who came to say goodbye to her just a few weeks ago, and who we promised we would get to the funeral, have been dismissed as being too old to attend the service. We are sure they haven’t even been invited, but have no way of getting in touch with them as my MIL’s contact book of her friends’ and wider family’s details has been taken by my SIL. My husband says he feels liberated from any obligation to look after his brother now, and has decided not to attend the funeral, as it won’t really be his mother’s funeral but a showcase for the SIL. Instead, we shall meet our son for a nice lunch on the day, so that my DH is with people he loves instead of people who despise him or who he has never met. He has also instructed his mother’s solicitor to assume centre stage now in dealing with his mother’s affairs, to ensure everything is done legally and according to her wishes. Thankfully the solicitor is the 3rd executor, precisely to avoid things grinding to a halt if the other two executors disagree. She will have the casting vote if my BIL becomes deliberately obstructive in administering the Will. I am so distressed about this. Where is the compassion for my DH and the loss of his mother? I feel so traumatised by the abuse, and am finding it difficult to sleep, eat, or to focus on anything right now. I know I have been full of advice for others on this Forum, but I really don’t know how to help my DH or myself right now.

Jodi, I never heard of an ALF charging for bus transportation to doctor appointments! At .least within a reasonable mileage from the facility. Also, why can't your NM sign up for the doctors who come into the ALF to see the residents? It is SO MUCH EASIER!

Shell, I'm sorry you're struggling with the belief your NM loved you. It's all very difficult I'm sure. I love Pipers idea of trying to comfort your inner child now. Can you take a break from the cleaning and everything and just have a nice relaxing dinner with your SO?

Cascia I'm with you. I can NEVER call my mother for comfort. Never have been able to do that bc she normally turns it into a hysterical nightmare about HER needing comfort and I have to drop everything to calm HER down. That's taught me to hide everything from her and keep my feelings to myself.

Piper, it's Mothers Day on Sunday so we can't call off the visit to NM. I think next week my son will go in my place and take the baby so she will get to meet her first great grandchild for the first time now that he's gotten his first round of vaccinations. He sent her flowers yesterday for mother's day and she called to thank ME and no matter how many times I told her they were from her grandson and his wife, she could not comprehend it.

DH and I had a nice day today in spite of his phone incessantly ringing. With 5 children and 3 brothers and sisters, it's always something. I told him tomorrow I want the damn thing turned OFF and I don't care. How did we function before cell phones? We DID. And that's how we will function tomorrow. By pretending we don't own cell phones.

Jodi, are there any senior transport busses your mom can use?

I remember when I was fighting to get my mom off the road. What a nightmare. Now I think she has accepted it, and she can't legally drive anyway but now it's just another type of burden where she needs rides. Uber helps sometimes for short things like going to the nail salon but mainly it's just a huge PIA. I also know her ability to Uber likely won't last much longer.

In other words, I feel your pain. Well, back to that word we use around here CONSTANTLY-- boundaries! Set them and use them. I'm about to change an appointment my mom made for a dexa scan because she made it right in the middle of my son's vacation here. NOPE. Not doing it then.

IF you agree to take your mom to an appointment I think it's wise to be involved in the scheduling of the appointment so you can make sure the time is convenient for you. I'm going to start doing that more.

That's great you got your mom's rent reduced by $700, that's a lot, good job!

Lea- I'm glad your DH went out. I'm also glad the whole burial thing has been simplified and the lighters will pay for it. It's amazing your DH got everything done in a day! No wonder he was quiet. It probably felt -- a little strange going through his brother's things. I hope you two can plan a nice relaxing weekend together doing something fun. In light of what just happened with your BIL's sudden passing maybe ditch the NM visit this weekend?

Shell, I am so sorry that you are having so many painful memories resurface. Do you think your mom's letter to you was a trigger because she said she loved you? Then I said it too, and it may have been a trigger. What you experienced in the past is certainly reason to have PTSD and CPTSD -- in both cases triggers are VERY powerful and can bring on a flood of raw emotion and panic.

This may sound a bit strange, but try to comfort that child inside of you. YOU be the loving mother. The person who abused you is gone. GONE. She can never hurt you again! The memories are painful but they will scar over in time.

Let us know how you are doing. Every day if you are up to it. Talk, vent, cry, celebrate your victories. We are here for you on this road of healing. How are things going with the clearing of the house? If it gets to be too much can you step back and take a break? The house won't be able to call you and guilt trip you- it can wait. All that matters is your mental wellbeing.

Send you love and peace. Hugs.

Shell383143:"Here is the thing, my mother NEVER gave me comfort, hugs, kisses, snuggles, in fact, she never had a kind word to say to me in my life!" It's so hard to let go - I can't recall my mom ever saying a kind word to me she has OK moments if I do what she wants, play the game her way. But I always feel like I have to be careful what I say as I never know how it will be taken - so tiring to constantly have to be aware. I feel for her but I also feel for me - I want to be able to call my mom when I feel down but I never have been able to and from what I can see never will be. I am in my sixties and to still feel like this is crazy to not be able to let go, I now have an 86 year old child that will never give me joy sad to say. I feel like I need to hide everything for her as she finds a way to destroy any joy around her. I am trying to be understanding but sadly it's all one way and exhausting. I feel for you.

Transport to Doctor's appointments? A Yeah/Nah... (Do you have this wonderful expression? 😁)

Yeah : I saw my family do this for years with my lovely aged Grandmothers. Very mild mobility issues, cog fine.

Nah : my reality is folk with major mobility issues, cognitive issues & who lack insight over their continence.

Barb's wheel grab story freaks me out!! There's another reason I won't transport anxious folk with dementia 😱

XrayJ, if you have to drive her, do it, but with your limits. If she misbehaves - next time, nah. If it is too stressful for you - nah. Keep it short & simple. No mission creep blowout, unless you want it too, like a nice lunch out or a foot massage or whatever.

Barb,

Mom is on a very tight budget.

Although she worked in accounting for decades, apparently she didn't do her math before moving from Colorado to Montana. Go figure!

I think she has given up the search for her own apartment (Thank God!!) because DH and I convinced the Director of her ALF to lower her monthly payment by $700.00 a month.
That puts her at the break even point without going into what little is left of her savings.
Where was her math skills??😘

Shell,

I know my NM loves me, however it's love as she sees it!
Completely conditional! It's how she learned from her Mother.

Thank God we know more today about NPD than they did back in the day!
It gives us the bridge to understanding that this is a mental disorder, it's not our fault and we can't fix it!!!
Most of all, we are absolutely lovable!!

I pray that you Mom got things straight with God!
Seems as though she was trying!

When I was cleaning out my Aunts house, I have to admit I was ruthless! I didn't have time to waste on sentimentality. I had been away from my DH and my home for 2 months. I thought I was going for 1 week to attend my Uncles funeral. Best laid plans!
I knew what was important (family heirlooms etc), legal papers and tax files. I did donate clothes and some household items, but the rest went into 2 separate HUGE dumpsters.

Hang in there girl!!
You got this!!

((((Hugs))))

Jodi, why can't mom pay the transport charge?

I NEVER transported my mom in my car after her dementia dx. Did I mention she tried to wrest the steering wheel away from my husband during that last trip from rehab to AL?

I got out of the car and said to POA brother "ambulette with an aide from now on". He said "yes, ma'am".

My balloon has been burst!!

Starting Monday, NMs ALF is allowing the residents to leave the facility with family members (less than 24 hrs), without having to isolate upon return.
This means that they will now charge for transportation to Drs appointments.

Mom has a procedure Monday morning and guess who has to take her?? (Rhetorical question)

I now realize how much of a respite Covid has been for me!!
I am not being insensitive to those who have lost loved ones to the virus!! It's been tragic!!
And if you lost a LO to Covid, my apologies .

I realize that things are gonna get a lot tougher!
My Mom goes to the Dr for every little ache and pain.
She is convinced that she's in worse shape than anyone else in her facility. NPD.

This SUCKS!!

Shell: Just checking on you after you found that letter that your mom wrote. Are you okay?

Thank you Piper. I am hoping with the new changes will help with healing. I do plan to sell the house, but that is yrs ahead!

I really can't/don't see any love from my mother! When I moved in with her in 2016 and was very ill, my mother & brother ganged up on me and treated me like sh@t. She didn't care that I just lost my house...she didn't care that I was ill...all she cared about was 'putting me into my place.' She put me down...told me how dumb I was...she told my SO & I what the rules were & yet my NB didn't live here but could take whatever he wanted & my SO & I had to ask her for permission...I saw the hate & discussed look on her face she had...she told lies on me & my SO...her & my NB looked down on my SO & me! It was so bad that I would cry in my basement at night! I had to decide to rip them apart before they ripped me apart! Can you just imagine being browbeat day in and day out & your very sick! The worst part is that she invited us to come live with her!

Here is the thing, my mother NEVER gave me comfort, hugs, kisses, snuggles, in fact, she never had a kind word to say to me in my life! She ignored me...never taught me much of anything. We NEVER shared anything...no memories of her making me breakfast nor doing anything fun with me. She beat me all the time. Once she beat me because some kids beat me up & I lost my shoe. With a cold wet foot and a bleeding knee she dragged me back to where I lost my shoe. After she found it then she beat me with it! So I got beat up twice in less than 30 mins! I was 7 yrs old. She NEVER even asked me what happened nor did she bandage my knee! I have countless stories of her doing this crap to me! She stole anything and everything that brought joy to my life including a doll house, clothes, animals, pillows, stuff animals and she even tried to take away my first car that I was paying for & my dad had to step in and take her key away from her. After my dad went to work I got slammed in the face for telling on her! There is nothing in my past that suggest that she liked me little along loved me!

Maybe she really was mentally ill, but I am sorry, I can't believe that she loved me...I just can't! She treated me horrible & that was not love!

I'm sorry for going on a rant, but I am still very hurt on how she treated me & all the lies she told me!😭💔

EP, DH is quiet which is out of character for him. He moved everything out of his brothers place yesterday in short order. Brought home a box of rare Zippo lighters which will pay for most of his final expenses, oddly enough. He did find the cash, too. No photos or anything, no mementos of family.....but he was an odd man. We are having him cremated, yes. The manager had wonderful things to say about his brother which was nice, good memories to share. DH disposed of most of his clothing which was saturated in cigarette smoke, and donated the kitchen ware, pots, dishes etc. Some family is planning to come out from Nebraska in summer with an uncle's ashes and we will go to the mountains to have a memorial service and spread all of the ashes together.

DH is having lunch with his old coworkers today so I'm glad he's doing something light and fun.

Lea, how is your DH? It really does seem like your BIL kept it simple. Not much to move. The money thing is odd, but doesn't seem like a big deal, well maybe to the sister. Hopefully she finds it in the bags. On the burial, have you all considered cremation? I was thinking about cremation the other day as a woman in my building passed and a small group of people took her ashes out to the Gulf and spread them in the waters she loved so much. Just a thought.

Shell, that letter from your mom, wow. What Lea said to you was spot on imo. Undiagnosed mental illness. But I too believe she did love you, the way that she could love. And even though your talk made her cry, it was good that she had that light bulb moment before she died, because it prompted her to write that letter. She knew you would find it, and that you would read that she loved you. She wanted you to know, and that is a good thing. She died knowing you would read those words.

I'm sorry that you are still processing so much but you are making progress. Cleansing and healing. Once everything is cleaned out of the house and the old carpet is gone the new carpet will look and smell fresh. It will signal a fresh start. Hugs to you.

I’m back. Trying to catch up. Been working a lot of overtime so I haven’t had a chance to be on here.

Lea, I’m so sorry to hear about your BIL. I’m glad that he went quickly.

Shell, I’m so sorry you are having a tough time. I think the letter you found means something. It means that your mom loves you and always did all along.

Lea: I am so, so sorry to hear about your BIL's death. I send deepest condolences. How sad.

Chris,
We have to clean out this house because we have our stuff in storage and we can't afford this house & the storage. My NM filled this house full! Ugh!! I have had cleaned some of it out in the past, but there is still not enough room for our stuff.

The good news is that the dumpster came today and her room will be done this weekend then the attic! Order another dumpster and finish the rest of the house. I live in the northern states so we only have a short time to get this house cleaned out before winter comes. Finish the painting that my NM stop me from doing and get new carpet because this carpet smells! Then get our stuff here! It's a lot! But that's me always doing to much!

I have been through a lot. I think your right. I find my things and it triggers me. That makes perfect sense! I just want to get it done and over and move forward! Thank you for your insight.


P.S. Lea, I never break down while I am going through hard times it's always afterwards. Then I have my big cry!


I can't thank you gals enough!💖