Dating: She's all but dead but you shouldn't date?
I'm curious about what people think about resuming a social life with close friends of the opposite sex while their dementia-afflicted spouse is still alive. Long ago, at the time of life when my friends started getting divorces, I was shocked that it was apparently considered okay to have a new boyfriend or girlfriend shortly after separating from their spouse. I'd always thought that no dating should be going on until the divorce was final. People did it anyway.
Fast forward to now: If you have a spouse who has dementia to the point where they haven't been able to walk or talk or know who their wife/husband is for years, their wife or husband should not have friends of the opposite sex who can walk and talk to them? And go to a movie once in a while? Or out to dinner? (I'm not talking about moving in, having sex, or anything like that; I'm discussing companionship.)
Why is it okay to date before a divorce is final but not after your spouse doesn't even know who you are and is fast approaching The Inevitable End?
You may not have meant how I interpreted your words, but that is what my previous post was based on.
I certainly wouldn’t have blamed Sandra for moving on herself, especially after John himself had done so. She would only have five more years until her own diagnosis. Maybe at the dementia wing, she met a nice older man that would hold her hand.
Time is short.
In any event, my comment stands.
And to imply that because her husband John with dementia "moved on" because he was found holding hands with another woman who had dementia is ludicrous.
You know as well as I do that when a persons brain is broken that they can't be held responsible for what they do or say in the absence of their loved ones.
It's like saying...well what's good for the goose is good for the gander, not keeping in mind that the goose doesn't know what the hell they're doing while the gander very well does.
There's a BIG difference there.
I do agree however that if ones spouse with dementia does enjoy the company of someone of the opposite sex while in a facility, that should not upset the remaining spouse but like you said bring them instead some kind of relief that at least they're not lonely and are perhaps even happy in their new surroundings.
I too had a friend who had to place her husband of many years in a memory care facility, and after he was there a while when she would come to visit he would be sitting in the lounge holding hands with another woman, and she like Sandra, would just sit on his opposite side and hold his other hand.
She knew that if her husband was in his right mind that he never would have even thought of holding another woman's hand let alone anything else, so she had peace about it and got to know and even like the other woman her husband was spending time with.
Bottom line we cannot compare what someone does with a broken brain verses someone whose brain is perfectly fine.
If you have Netflix, I strongly recommend a watch of Black Mirror: San Junipero. That’s what some of the better adjusted people in facilities have without the ai.
Fawnby, I know you didn't mean it about yourself. And yes -- it is a thought-provoking question to which there are only individual/personal answers.
My question grew out of a discussion in my caregiver group. One of the women was scandalized when she saw "Frank," the husband of "Lynette," dining out with a woman. Lynette had a stroke 2 or 3 years ago, and since then she doesn't speak, can't feed herself, is totally incontinent, and has no idea who Frank is. She's basically just a lump in her bed. Lynette lives next door to my husband in memory care, and Frank visits faithfully. Some in my caregiver group think it's awful that he's "cheating" on Lynette. I was surprised that my caregiver friends were so judgmental and thought it would an interesting topic to discuss, which it has been.
Every situation is different and everybody has different needs. Do as you see fit w/o worrying what others have to say, including adult children. Some things my adult children do are so outrageous, yet I'm expected to stay silent or agree with them.......yet my life is open to criticism? I don't think so.
You do you, Fawnby.
I think it's fine for a person to date if their spouse is a total invalid and out of it from dementia. So long as they have discretion. The invalid spouse does not deserve to be hurt because they're made aware of it. The other spouse should take special care to make sure they don't find out about the "other" woman or man. So should anyone else who knows about it.
Everyone needs someone. When a person is married to an invalid or very ill person and they're a caregiver to them, they deserve to have a little happiness for themselves. Seeing someone else does not mean they love or respect their spouse any less. It just means they need something for themselves.
Discretion. The old saying, "What you don't know, won't hurt you" is true in this instance.
For me, personally, I am an introvert, and I was raised by an independent mother to be an independent woman, so I do not feel, never have felt that I NEEDED a Man in my life to take care of me. I am at a stage in my life where I really do not care to be in a relationship after my husband. I'm ok with being alone.
Here's a little context: My husband and I met when we were 45 yrs old and married (my first and only) at the age of 48. His first wife and mother of his 3 boys died young (34) of cancer and he raised his boys on his own. I had one son born from an unexpected, unplanned pregnancy (my birth control failed) whom I had raised on my own. I felt, and still feel like I won the lottery when I met my husband. He is truly the best person I have ever known. He has treated me with kindness, respect, love and loyalty. I know not everyone is so lucky. I've had friends who were divorced from horrible marriages who wondered why I didn't just leave him in a nursing home after the stroke and "get on with my life", meaning I should find a man. I can't bear the thought of being separated from my dear sweet husband, even though he is confined to bed, has dementia, and does not allow me to be affectionate with him. If I did not have such a husband, I could see things going very differently. I could feel very differently if he were a jerk and I wanted to be free of him, or free of this burden of being full time caregiver to an invalid.
If I were weaker as a person, or could not do the hands on caregiving needed, I might wish to move on and find companionship elsewhere.
Because I have no wish or desire to have male companionship (other than my husband whom I adore), I really can not answer whether seeking companionship outside of your marriage is appropriate for someone else. I kind of think it's morally wrong and selfish, but I know everyone has their own story and their own burdens to bear, which I can not possibly understand and judge.
I do know a family (maybe even more than one!) where the mother and father, who were divorced, were always saying, "If I do that the kids will get mad!" This could apply to anything, such as cleaning out the fridge or getting a dog or attending an event with their friends, who could only be people their kids liked. Both parents had evidently been trained from the time their kids were little to do exactly what their kids wanted them to do. Which, or course, always somehow benefited their monster kids.
The parents are now in their 80s and this is still going on, but my friendship with them ended years ago. It became so tiresome to watch!
Sometimes, the consensual sex happened between parties who were married to other people outside of the nursing home.
I don't judge. I think it is up to the person to decide what's best for them. My uncle and his aunt used to go visit my aunt's husband in a facility.. He was totally bedridden. Back then, you couldn't divorce a sick spouse in their state.
I have learned, we can't judge. One woman I know cared for her huband for at least 20yrs who had Parkinsons. Six months after his death she was dating a guy who went to school with us. They are still dating 4 yrs later. Another woman I know starting dating not long after her husbands death. He was 18 yrs older than her and had been having heart problems. She is now married to the man she was dating. Both woman lost their husbands in their early 70s.
I read long ago where someone asked a man, in his 70s who was married for years, why he had remarried soon after his wife died. His answer was, life is short and he is enjoying every minute of it. Dementia is the worst desease. The person dies little by little. They forget who their LOs are. The person we know has left us. I can imagine if the marriage was good, the spouse is very lonely. They want that closeness back. I can't judge because I have no idea what I would do in either situation, waiting at least a year after death, or seeing someone else before my DH, who is here in body but not mind, has passed. These two woman did not go looking for love, it found them. I'd like to think that God placed these men in these woman's lives when he felt they needed them. If so, he gave his blessing.
When you think about it, the spouse in the facility chose to move on. To make the best of it with the people around them. At that point, the other spouse, too, should get to do the same. With or without sex.
"...apparently considered okay..." = random opinion and not a moral conviction where there are spiritual consequences.
Personally I will never stop thinking it is 100% creepy to date while your spouse is still alive, no matter their condition. My sons would lose their minds if either I or my husband did this. There are other ways to deal with loneliness.
A Dad in my son's daycare had a wife who had a long battle with cancer. She died and he started dating 3 months later. We other parents (Moms mostly) were very shocked and somewhat horrified. He married shortly after. At the end of the day people can do what they want. Hope that man's son doesn't find out what he did to his Mom...
Whether it's a divorce or a death, ALL spouses should take time to heal, make themselves a priority for a bit and reflect on what they did right and what they did wrong in their marriage, regardless on how it ended so you don't bring any needless baggage going forward in another relationship/friendship.
And while you may think that having a casual friend of the opposite sex is harmless if your spouse is still alive even if they're deep in their dementia journey, it very well could turn into something more if you're not careful and that is where it crosses the line. So always best to error on the side of just not putting yourself in that situation.
My personal belief being a Christian is to be true and faithful to your spouse while they're still alive despite their health, and honor your marriage vows, as there will come a day soon enough when you will have all the time in the world to pursue another relationship or even just a friendship with someone of the opposite sex if you so choose after your spouse is dead.
Until then they deserve a spouse that is going to be true to them to the end.
I know there are many on here that feel that it's ok to step outside the marriage vows just because a spouse may have dementia and can't communicate or be sexual anymore, but I am not one of them.
We all have to be able to live with the choices we make in life, and I only have to answer for myself and not anyone else and their choices when I stand before God one day, so that's all that really matters.