Did Hospice rush your loved ones death?

Yes my experience was that my mom was put in hospice right in the hospital and died within hours when put on a morphine drip. She was not in pain so I do not know why they insisted on the morphine. When I questioned the doctor he told me he had not killed anyone yet. I wish I had known what I know now, I would have not permitted it. It is something I have not come to terms with yet. It's turning out to be that mom had a prion desease which is terminal anyway, but she was in a semi coma and not in pain when they just decided to end her life since there is no cure for her illness. Hospice might be good for certain cases but not others. I am so sorry I learned the hard way!

Sachigirl, that was the most beautiful post, and brought me to tears. It must have been very difficult to relive.
Your father was a wonderful person in the way he selflessly bore his illness and pain. he deserved his peace. May you find comfort.

Thank you for posting this. My father had late stage IV lung cancer and we were all in denial, thinking chemo could actually cure him. We knew better, but we all had to hold out hope with him and get him the best care possible. He transferred to a reputable hospital near our home and stayed with us for 6 months during treatment. The chemo was "working" on the tumors, but by no means was he getting better. By all visual accounts, he was worsening. I know now, looking back, he developed a malignant pleural effusion (complicated pnemonia) which was simply another form of metastasis. At that point, if there was any chance of a recovery, the pnemonia make a sharp left turn and life expectancy in that circumstance was 3 months. I don't ever remember a doctor telling us that. We kept hearing the "tumors are shrinking." I'm sure there were things doctors told him at his appointments that never were conveyed back to me. We did everything we could to provide a loving environment for him, and he wanted to hold out hope and fight to the end. He was unwilling to succumb to the disease and admit he was dying. That said, we never involved hospice. He was not on any pain management program because he didn't like injecting medications, and he hid his pain levels from us all. He never complained. He was full of life and vigor until the very end. We didn't know what was happening except he was dying of cancer. He was in my home and having hallucinations, hadn't eaten in a week, couldn't get out of bed. I felt the end was near, but I didn't know how near. What I just wrote makes it obvious, but living it, I didn't know. I just wanted him to feel peace. I spent two days with him, talking with him and listening to him tell me about his experiences. He was already slipping into a delirium and I didn't know it. I looked up "end of life symptoms" and he hit the mark on most of them. But we were all in such denial. The third day, he went to the hospital for an appointment and was immediately taken into ER. He was admitted on a Monday and passed that Friday. His lung was partially collapsed and they couldn't do anything to fix it. Learning that knowledge seemed to throw him into what ended up being terminal delirium. From Tuesday until Wednesday he didn't have proper pain medicine prescribed because no one seemed to be able to identify the hysteria. It was an absolutely crazy 36-hour window. I hope people understand by my story that NO pain management in terminal disease resulted in terminal hysteria the last week of my father's life. His body had been processing out for many weeks already, if not longer. Two days before he passed, palliative care finally got involved (no idea why it took them two days to get to the case), and Atavan and morphine began. I know I kept asking the nurses what they were giving him, and after they'd answer, I'd say, "Well, it's not strong enough." We were all in such a daze. By that Wednesday he was in restraints and had suffered the delirum long enough. The Atavan and morphine calmed him. He was clearly "high," but he was in the dying process and no longer in dire pain and misery. My last spoken words to him were on the Thursday morning when I arrived to visit. Clearly "high," but no longer crazed, I said, "Good morning, Dad. How are you feeling today? I know yesterday was rough, but how are you today?" And he looked right at me and said, "I feel much better today."
He went into semi-unconsciousness that afternoon and complete unconsciousness that night. He passed the next afternoon. I know we did everything we knew to do. I know I couldn't watch him suffer anymore. I also questioned whether the morphine hastened his death. But what I want to share after all of this is that death was in process already. To withhold the morphine would have kept him in pain and worsening delirium. Though I questioned if it slowed his breathing, the truth is, the death process was already irreversible. I thank the nurses for keeping him comforted in the final hours of his life. To understand, the death process of someone with disease doesn't happen in a day or two (unless an acute occurrence like an embolysm or stroke or heart attack).... the body starts shutting down over a period of weeks. Nothing was going to stop his death, so I'm glad he was comforted after 6 excruciating months of cancer treatment. And who knows how long before that he had it and lived with the pain before he was diagnosed. I am thankful the medication was available. Please don't second guess your choices with loved ones. They know you did your best. You have to know you did your best, too, with the knowledge you had. Thank you for posting this. I was concerned, too, tonight that our decisions hastened death. But after reading all of the responses, I know that is a response to the grief I am feeling tonight. I miss my dad. I miss him and cry a little every day. But I know death was imminent and we did our very best. May you find peace. May you know that your loved one understands you did your best, and they are at peace. God Bless you.

Barbaraywrd, My own FIL was a doc, and hated, absolutely hated, telling people they needed hospice. He talked about it like it was his personal failure. I suspect that is why dad's doc did not want to put him on hospice. I've also read about a study (in the book Being Mortal, I think) that says doctors who know their patients outside of the practice will wait 3 mos longer to put them on hospice. Again, that doctor's perceived personal failure to keep a friend alive.

My dad could not speak, swallow, or shuffle for a year after his several strokes and was trapped in his body by his wife who refused to "give up." If I had been in that situation, I would have preferred to be let go than to be miserably treated for a year with a ng tube down my nose, my diaper changed in front of my child, and all the other indignities of being incapacitated and unable to communicate. It is good that your dad is loved, but give him peace and permission to leave.

Barbaraywd, did the Hospice doctor declare that your Dad was ready for Hospice? If yes, then there has to be a very good reason.

The reason no food or water is given is because when the body starts to shut down prior to the start of morphine, the stomach can no longer process food or water. Or food/water is going into the lungs and that would be very painful for your Dad.

Please please note, your Dad's timetable for passing would be the same whether Hospice was there or not. With Hospice, you know your Dad is relatively pain free.

I am looking for someone in my situation right now. Hospice is in my home taking care of my father, multiple stroke, and they give him morphine and ativan and no water or food for over 48 hours. I believe hospice is rushing death. Dad's doctor has been shut out since hospice came here. He didnt believe that my father was ready for hospice care. They have completely convinced my mother this is best. Right at this moment I want to call 911. Please anyone suggestions???

My sister is dying, and would do so no matter what. However, like Rosie, she is being killed by the combination of Ativan and Morphine. She too was responsive, eating and drinking, some anxiety but no pain. The decision was not made by me to start the drugs. I had no problem with the use of Ativan when she became anxious, as I didn't want to see her that way. I had reservations with the switch to Morphine, especially as it started causing it's own anxiety. Then it was "strongly suggested" by Hospice to began giving her Ativan along with Morphine to "help calm her down." Ok, so the Ativan is now given to calm her down, so what is the Morphine for? A little research into Hospice practices has answered this question. It is routinely mixed together in spite of warnings from Web sites such as Mayo that state these drugs mixed cause coma and death. Rosie isn't wrong to say that her mother was able to eat and drink and talk to her until the advent of these drugs. There is a time and place for this, I certainly have no wish to see anyone suffer from pain. I do have a problem with Euthanasia, and this is plainly it.

My sister is dying, and would do so no matter what. However, like Rosie's mother, she is being killed by the combination of Ativan and Morphine. She too was responsive, eating and drinking, some anxiety but no pain. The decision was not made by me to start the drugs. I had no problem with the use of Ativan when she became anxious, as I didn't want to see her that way. I had reservations with the switch to Morphine, especially as it started causing it's own anxiety. Then it was "strongly suggested" by Hospice to began giving her Ativan along with Morphine to "help calm her down." Ok, so the Ativan is now given to calm her down, so what is the Morphine for? A little research into Hospice practices has answered this question. It is routinely mixed together in spite of warnings from Web sites such as Mayo that state these drugs mixed cause coma and death. She went quickly from having especially good morning times where she enjoyed food and conversation, and looked forward daily for a Sonic Diet Dr Pepper to (in one day's time) inability to take any food at all and water only if dropped from a straw into her mouth. And of course her routine oral Morphine and Ativan. Rosie isn't wrong to say that her mother was able to eat and drink and talk to her until the advent of these drugs. There is a time and place for this, I certainly have no wish to see anyone suffer from pain. I do have a problem with Euthanasia, and this is plainly it.

Prolife,
I'm assuming you are asking me the question, since I debunked your "mercy killing" theory in the Bible. What's with pointing the finger about mercy killing anyway?
It is illegal and immoral in our society. There are some states in the U.S. and some countries that allow terminally ill people to end their own lives, but none that allow homicide.
We've gone over and over about the doses of Morphine, Ativan, nausea meds, etc. that hospice nurses give their patients. None of the quantities given comes anywhere near lethal doses.
I do not believe in mercy killing, I have never assisted or done that and never plan to. For me, I cannot do God's job. What I can do is relieve as much pain and suffering by administering medications and other pain relieving treatments. Now do you see the difference?

Just for a comparison....the night my father died...I mean just hours before he passed..... he was up and walking around, eat a big meal (like I have not seen him eat in a while) ... even had cake with strawberries for desert!

He was up during the night...talking and walking.

In the morning I found him cold..in bed.

I have seen a dramatic change in just hours. No morphine or hospice was involved.

Sometimes it just is what it is

Sometimes what happens is that a person is assigned Hospice Care very late in the timeline, so it feels like the person passed quickly.   Others place love ones into Hospice months ahead.

Please note that people who will be passing shortly sometimes get a short time frame where they appear to be improving... thus talking, eating, laughing, and everyone feels there has been this turn around in the person's heath.  This phase doesn't last long, then the patient goes into the next step.

Depending on the Hospice group used, some groups have a very informative notebook that explain all the steps involved, and what will happen when.   And there have been cases where a person had improved so much that they were taken off of Hospice and lived many more months or a year or two.

My brother just passed away. He was fine and talking until hospice gave him morphine and other meds. I wasnt his health proxy so his wife had the say.my brother became in a comatose state from the medicine and then died shortly after

My brother just passed away. He was fine until the hospice medicated him with morphine and other meds.

Tacy,
Where the question shows at top of this page there is a "Following+" label, select it and you will not be following it any longer.

It doesn't matter whether the soldier actually killed Saul or not. David thought that he did, by word of his own mouth, and did what was just in the case of murder. All of these things are examples to us. This man professed to have preformed a mercy killing on Saul, as he claimed Saul requested, and was executed for murder. Period.

I'm gathering from your position that you are for mercy killing and that you believe it is the right thing to do?

This is very disturbing to me. As my mom died 12/23/15 in Hospice she was brought there. Granted she had stage 4 colon cancer and was 84. When I went to see her she seemed fine then when I went back a few days later as we had gone on a mini vac. our husband and I. She seemed unresponsive as if they gave her something (Morphine). They told me no. I'm bothered not that she died since I knew she couldn't live to much longer. But she was semi fine at home. I go over and over this in my mind for what reason I don't know. She's gone. AND the worst was I wasn't there to say goodbye I was at work when they called me. We were VERY close like sisters. Sorry this is short. I don't blame hospice I blame myself for not being there and or for going away but the fact was I was coming up on Xmas week which I was off for. Figuring I could be home with her. That was why we had her brought there for the short time.

WSDS, in answer to your question, NO! It is Never OK, for someone to administer Any treatment to another person, without an order and Authorization from their Dr, and I am quite sure, that giving IV solutions to Anyone who has now discontinued Lifesaving Dialysis, is on Hospice, and not expected to improve is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

First off, because he isn't licensed to administer meds or even IV saline solution to his own father is illegal! Secondly, giving and even forcing IV fluids to him, when his damaged kidneys are no longer working is just plain cruel, because his kidneys aren't working to capacity, he cannot process the fluids, which is why they are giving him only limited fluids by mouth or even food, as his poor body cannot process very much.

As mentioned above, I would most definitely report your Nephew to the Hospice Nurse and Dr, and sadly, he might well be banned from being alone in the same room as him, or worse, banned altogether, and hopefully not reported to the police!

As for him being asleep, or out of it, this is to be expected, being that his kidneys Are shutting down, the chemical buildup of BUN & CREATININE from his failing kidneys, do make the patient extremely sleepy and loopy if conscious, and even make them feel euphoric.  The small amounts of Narcotics,  are not enough to put a healthy person asleep, but a very ill person, may very likely be deeply asleep. However,  the Narcotics will not hasten his death, but keep him comfortably in his decline. 

The reason I know this as it happened to my own Mom, while on Hospice, and actively dying. The Dr's explained that when the body is shutting down, and the organs are no longer working properly, and it becomes dificult and even painful for them to process food and fluids, and it's best to discontinue them.

Yes, they are often unconscious, but it's much better than bring awake and uncomfortable, or in pain. Still, they may be just "under the surface", and still able to hear you, so talk to him, play music during your visits, enjoy conversationsome with others in his presence, as this too, may bring him comfort, just knowing that you are there!

It's terribly sad, that you are losing your Brother, and I am so sorry! Use this time to be near him, speaking to him, sharing and remembering all the wonderful things you enjoyed about your shared memories.

I'll be keeping you in my prayers!

Excellent post, Countrymouse.

Your paramedic nephew might well be trained in putting in an IV for saline (purified water with trace elements in it, identical to the watery part of blood), but he will not have unauthorised access to morphine.

Your brother is - and I'm sorry to be this blunt but you seem very matter-of-fact yourself so I hope you'll forgive me - dying of renal failure. There comes a point in kidney disease where dialysis, which is uncomfortable and risky in itself, is not enough to keep the patient going. So there is no point in continuing it, because it will not allow him to recover and improve, but only prolong his severe suffering.

Your brother and sister in law are both fortunate that you are a sensitive person, able to recognise that acting rashly in this difficult situation might end up making things worse for them to no purpose. Many people in your shoes would kick up a fuss whatever the consequences of it. Well done to you that you genuinely are putting your brother's and SIL's peace of mind first.

You are in a very challenging position. You are correct that it is professionally (never mind anything else) inappropriate for your nephew to be administering treatment to his father, unless this has also been agreed by the patient, his doctor and the hospice team. Whereas it sounds as though nephew is muscling in and making it hard for the hospice nurse to challenge him without upsetting the patient.

As a side issue: be careful how you judge your nephew. People who say what he said, and perhaps felt what he felt when he said that, often experience terrible guilt and shame about it later on when what they "wished for" is coming true. It seems more likely that his feelings towards his father are extremely complicated: if he truly, simply hated him it would be easier and more final to stay away and deny him any chance of leave-taking. Anyway.

In your position, I think if I could I would call the GP and report my concerns. The GP may be able to liaise with hospice to ensure that only authorised staff have any hands-on involvement in nursing or medical care. If you decide to try this, keep strictly to the facts; and if you must comment on your nephew say only that he is too emotionally involved to give appropriate care. Good luck, and please let us know how you and your family are getting on.

I agree so much with your comment, as my brother went home with Hospice on a Sat. almost two weeks ago...he was still communicating, eating, etc. His illness was related to dialysis. They could not afford a sitter to care for him in nursing home or at home till he got his strength back from being in and out of hospital/nursing home, so that is the reason Hospice was brought in. With Hospice, there is no more dialysis. Long story shorter, his son hates his Dad and he works for an ambulance service. He thinks he knows everything and he will tell you so. My sister in law listens to every word from his mouth, and he told her to tell the Hospice nurse that my brother needed something more for pain, as he gets agitated. So last Thurs. they started him on small dosages of morphine along with other meds he is on including Haldol & two other pain meds. He went from eating, talking, wanting to get up to potty (with help) on Wed. to sleeping the very next day! All he is given is few bites of applesauce (with meds in) and dropper of water. He has not talked nor opened his eyes since he began the morphine. I am familiar with Hospice as my oldest brother and my 2nd sister in law had hospice due to cancer. They were NOT given morphine until the very end. My brother now did NOT need to have this started in my opinion. I am not blaming Hospice, they are doing what they're asked to control his occasional agitated state. My question to you is: "Does a paramedic have the right to put a needle in a vein and hook up IV with saleen (mispelled) and stand there pushing on bag to get it in patient?" This paramedic thinks he knows everything because he has worked 15 years at this...of course, he has been at so many ambulance services because he cannot keep a job! This is WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM DR! The saddest part of all is that this is the younger son who is doing this...my sister in law listens to every word he says. He also has put on FB that he hates his Dad. This is my brother, and I love him so much. His last days on this earth should be peaceful...God is still in charge of when He wants us to come home with Him. My heart is breaking, as if I say anything, the son starts yelling and cursing about how long he's been taking care of patients, etc. Please let me know what I should do without causing my brother any more pain (from a broken heart as he lays there listening to all that's going on). My niece goes every afternoon and stays and I go after work...she also knows how her brother is, and her Mother doesn't listen to her either, just Jon. PLEASE help me know what to do to help my brother without causing my sister in law any problems. We have always been close, so this is so very hard. Thank you and have a blessed day! WW

Exactly! God bless our Hospice Nurses!

Well said Sue C. You are obviously very knowledgeable about the Bible. Your reply very realistically illustrates how people with an agenda try and bully others into their own point of view. There is never a single solution for every problem.

Hi Prolife,
Please check out the New International Version (NIV) of the Bible. It is in modern day language and is so much easier to understand than the King James version.
I would like to dissect the verses you printed from your Bible and get to the meaning of the story. The man who came to David was probably not who he said he was, an Amalekite from King Saul's camp. Since he had Saul's crown with him, an item that the Philistines would not have left in the battlefield, we can assume that the Philistine's hadn't arrived yet and that he was a scavenger, pilfering the battlefield for treasure AFTER Saul had been killed. (See 1 Samuel 31:3-4)
Since the Amalekites had been in battle with the Israelites since the time of Moses, and David had just destroyed a group of them who had burned his city and kidnapped the women and children (1 Samuel 30:1-20), obviously this man was unaware of David's hatred of them. He thought he would be pleasing David to tell him of Saul's death but his lie wound up costing him his life.
What I am trying to get across is that, because the man was lying, and he did not kill Saul, you can not use this story to show "mercy killing". The man never committed Saul's murder to ease his anticipated (perceived) pain of dying at the hand of the enemy.
I am not saying that, in history, mercy killings have never happened. I'm just saying, in this instance, that it wasn't the case.

You have every right not to opt for hospice care for a dying loved one. As a hospice nurse, I have seen people in extreme pain at the end of their life. If you can live with denying them pain medicine and can put up with their moaning, screaming, gasping, writhing, etc., until the good Lord takes them, then you are a tougher cookie than I am. I wonder if that's what your family member would want.

Prolife, one day, when you or somebody close to you lay dying, in intractable pain, begging to die, I hope you remember how you preached that giving and recieving those body numbing pain medications isn't the right thing to do, the Only thing to do, or would you rather lay there suffering, or watching  your loved one lay there,  rytheing in pain? Not me!

I've seen it, and observed one who chose to end his own life with grace and dignity, utilizing his option of Death With Dignity. A very brave thing to do.

No, a sad and painful death, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but it happens, a lot! And thank God we have the wonderful option of Hospice Care, to help in the aid of comfort for our Loved ones, and now even Death with Dignity, in some states.

When your body is broke down, and death is in sight, please, take the option of Hospice Care. They are not hastening your death, they are a saving grace, helping you to live out your days with as much comfort as is possible. And they definitely don't set out to kill you or shorten your life!

If you would rather, do not choose Hospice, tough it out of on your own, but it won't be pretty. It will be Awful, difficult, and painful, and you can't pray that away.

Would you like my name and address Prolife? I have nothing to hide. I could also give you the name of a good Psychiatrist. You are doing nothing but adding to good people in the depths of dispare more suffering. So knock it off.OK?

2 Samuel 1
2 It came even to pass on the third day, that, behold, a man came out of the camp from Saul with his clothes rent, and earth upon his head: and so it was, when he came to David, that he fell to the earth, and did obeisance.
3 And David said unto him, From whence comest thou? And he said unto him, Out of the camp of Israel am I escaped.
4 And David said unto him, How went the matter? I pray thee, tell me. And he answered, That the people are fled from the battle, and many of the people also are fallen and dead; and Saul and Jonathan his son are dead also.
5 And David said unto the young man that told him, How knowest thou that Saul and Jonathan his son be dead?
6 And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.
7 And when he looked behind him, he saw me, and called unto me. And I answered, Here am I.
8 And he said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite.
9 He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life is yet whole in me.
10 So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that was upon his head, and the bracelet that was on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord.
11 Then David took hold on his clothes, and rent them; and likewise all the men that were with him:
12 And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.
13 And David said unto the young man that told him, Whence art thou? And he answered, I am the son of a stranger, an Amalekite.
14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the LORD'S anointed?
15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.
16 And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.

So called mercy killing in the Bible.

Prolife, well the non-profit Hospice Care group that took care of my parents, the CEO has an extensive medical background, holds a Masters in Nursing, plus some of the Board of Directors are MD's along with RN's.

Making money?   On average Hospice gets $150 per day from Medicare for each patient.   That $150 also has to cover the cost of the rental of the hospital bed, rental of oxygen tanks, and a long list of medical supplies.

Oh, let's not forget the payroll for the Board-Certified palliative medicine Physicians.... the Hospice trained RN's.... the Hospice trained Aides,.... the Clinical Social Worker for the patient..... the interfaith Chaplain..... the Bereavement Coordinator, etc. that commute to where ever the patient may be, at all hours of the day, in all kinds of weather.

By the way, morphine is a Controlled Substance.  

ProLife, don't you have a clinic you should be protesting at instead of posting here?

If you have been giving a life-ending diagnosis, are in severe pain, and no longer wish to prolong the agony, do you want a good death or do you want a difficult death? I choose a good death so call the hospice for me! I have had nothing but good experiences with hospice in several of my family members who have utilized their services. Without them, things would have been very difficult for the patient and the family and dealing with the pain and Agony and their suffering.   Remember, using Hospice Services is a choice, you may choose to utilize our services or you can go the route of caring for your family member your self.

Yes, Churchmouse, it is good that the one did refuse. Good for her! But many did follow through with the orders. This also blows the argument out of the water, that the patients are never given more than 20mg of morphine, which I have seen commented many times. That it would take 200mg and they would never have access to that amount.

Another thing you need to take away form this story: Hospice is a business. Its goal like many businesses is to keep costs low and make money. You see how the CEO of this business was calling the shots? He has no medical training or degree and he is the boss. That's how it works. Also note the cap.