I'm so disheartened and angry.

Just a little history as to SIL, not that it matters, but there is a bigger picture. SIL's husband suffers from some pretty severe Bi-Polar Disorder. They have been married nearly 40 years .. and he was dx'd .. probably about 3 years into their marriage.

His is so severe, that he stays so medicated, he is a mere shell of a human, for the most part. He doesn't really converse. You can ask him a question and he will answer it, as succinctly as is possible. But to strike up a conversation, .. and the give and take of same, not so much, not with him.

He doesn't "see" what needs doing .. all the way from, "time to go brush your teeth and get dressed for the day, remember to wear those beige Bermuda shorts and that plaid shirt I put out for you, because we're going to so and so today, .. all the way from that menial a task, to the garbage can that is overflowing, needing to be taken out".

He is very compliant, a very gentle soul. He will do what he is asked, without fail, and without argument, every time. But she has had to take the reigns (or maybe she worsened his condition with her own OCD and so forth, who's to say). She has to direct every thing he does, down to the most menial, to the other things one does as part of their day.

May be, in part, . why she is so very obsessive .. about every frigging thing!

And, just as a side note, FWIW ............ MIL detests being in that environment, .. an environment where she watches her daughter, relegated to a life of directing her husband .. as to the most basic of things .. "go brush your teeth and get ready for the day". It drives MIL up a tree. It bothers her, that her daughter's life is such that she is a care-taker to a husband who, .. for the most part, . he functions, he walks, he talks, .. he eats on his own (has very very shaky hands as a result of the meds he takes, .. and so she has to cut his meat for him), .. it's kinda like looking after a child I would guess, except that he isn't a child, and he doesn't act like a child. But it's very bothersome to MIL .. that her daughter's life, this as her fate.

It's been this way for over 30 years .....

I'm not real sure why MIL could, in her younger years, go visit them (and the status quo above, has always been the case, him on disability income, her working, . etc etc). It's always been this way .... and MIL used to, in her younger years, travel there to go visit/stay with them for a period of time ... and so the above status quo ... wasn't so bothersome at that point, apparently.

Maybe as one ages .. one can't "cope" as well ...???.... I really don't know.

I have tried, H has tried, .. SIL has tried, .. Tried to make MIL understand that this is her life, she has made the choices she's made. She does love her husband, in spite of the above, they do enjoy one another. They go to the gym daily, they go to art museums, historical sites, they travel, they go to concerts. They have a "normal" life outside of the above micro-management of her husband, .. and SIL doesn't wake up daily and think to herself *oh dear GOD how will I get through another day with this insufferable situation?*. Quite the contrary. She is happy. She is a care-taker if she's anything. If she didn't have a husband to look after (her kids are grown and gone) ........ she'd probably have a houseful of pets to fret over. Who knows.

Some of this might explain the *over-the-top* that SIL is.

Be that as it may. The whole, "nor my circus, not my monkies", applies here. I can't fix that SIL is so OCD about every frigging thing .. nor can I fix that MIL detests the whole situation.

I guess my struggle at this point, as I continue to back away from all this, and indeed watch that the reigns are being handled in another manner (hooray) .. is my .. ???....maybe I have OCD too, to a degree.

I get a text from SIL (and I know for a fact she can see when texts she sends, are read). I don't have that feature on my phone. I send a text and I have no clue whether the recipient has seen it. She does, on her phone.

Yes, there are times that I am driving, per se, .. or .. otherwise occupied and don't answer right away. I do realize that is reality .. and I'm not a slave to a text, in that I must, without fail, answer promptly. I don't, always .. answer it right away, I may be busy. And that has been the case ever since "texting" became a "thing".

But .. put the phone down and ignore .. the mundane as was the case with this latest saga (a saga I'm not even real sure why SIL felt the need to share with me). Put the phone down and never ever respond. I would be less apt to do that, always. I will respond .. for sure ... maybe not right now, but eventually, I will.

I did respond to the texts she sent relaying the whole crises with the fence/gate. She had apparently sent it earlier .. and I hadn't seen it, been with my 4 yo g'daughter and busy. I did respond, with the following: "Crises averted. Good news. So, are you ready for your international travelers to arrive?".

Proud of myself that I did address the missive she sent .. but moved on rapidly to a different topic, rather than belabor the whole "why does she do that ..??!?!!........... MIL needs to use better judgement ... why in the world won't she let the yard guy handle that, she is so frustrating".

Nope, said none of that. Only "Crises averted .....", and then moved on to a different topic entirely.

Dorker,

The twins arrival date is fast approaching! I hope you are getting some rest and just shaking your head at the most recent episodes of The Stomach Turns.

SIL's infantile obsession with her mother's every move is WEIRD. Fueled by too much time on her hands. No doubt SIL is a handful -- and an insufferable bore -- for her husband, immediate family and friends.

Not to mention, anyone with an iota of common sense would not want unsteady-on-her-feet MIL to roam all over the property and try to do tasks WHILE HOLDING A PHONE UP TO HER EAR. Great way to make a balance issue worse. But the beast (SIL) must be fed. Narcissists never turn down an opportunity for a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Dorker, you will benefit from less contact with SIL in so many ways. And that's an understatement!

Now give yourself a big pat on the back. Because the New You is working! SIL found someone else to harangue with her vapid micro-managing. SIL accepted a check-in/intervention from someone else. See, it IS possible. Hooray!

Keep up the good work, Dorker. And don't let your guard down. This is a constant training exercise. Ignore the phone/texts as much as you can. "Stay on script" when you do have contact.

YOU made this change happen. The results are rewarding, aren't they?? 🙂

Dorker; I don't know what your perception of all this is, but your strategy is working.

Other folks are helping MIL; you have stopped feeding into SIL OCD, DH has talked to his mom on the phone and asked about her health.

You are out of a job.

You done good.

Yes, MIL has poor judgement. Not your fault, not your job to fix that.

Yes, SIL has a mental condition that makes her worry obsessively over her mom's health and safety, but like many people with mental issues, takes no actions. Again, not your fault, not your job to fix.

Put down your phone. You've told The MIL Committee that you've resigned. Stop going to the meetings.

Find something else to do while you're waiting for the grandbabies to arrive. Organize your linen closet. Get a haircut. Go to the library.

Just stop looking at SIL's texts

Today's continuation of "As the Stomach Turns".

Not sure why this was shared with me by SIL.

She texted me today to let me know of this whole dilemma that had occurred.

Sounds like MIL was unlocking her gate in anticipation of the lawn crew arrival. It's nerve-wracking that she should even go out to do that .. (at least to SIL). But go out there to do that, she does. And yes .. the yard guy could very easily come through the garage, open the back gate on his own .. and that would then leave MIL tucked inside, nice and safe. But that's not what MIL opts to do.

Sounds like SIL was on the phone with MIL, as she went outside to unlock the gate. MIL made her way to the gate, to unlock it .. but it wouldn't open. She couldn't figure out why it won't open. She was now going to go through the garage, around to the outside of the house to access the other side of this gate, to see what's the problem why won't this gate open.

This was sending SIL into a frenzy of panic .. the thought that her mother would fall in the yard (a valid worry). SIL begging her mother to just leave it, the lawn guy will figure it out when he gets there, .. don't try to do all that, .. pleading with her mom to not do that. Sounds like MIL was rebutting that SIL was being silly, that she'd handle it.

My opinion: No MIL shouldn't be doing all that. But again .. poor judgement.

SIL in a near panic, fearing her mother would fall trying to do all this.

Sounds like SIL as she was talking to MIL trying to plead with her not do this ... to no avail, she was also texting MIL's neighbor at the same time. "Hey sorry to bother you guys, but would one of you be able to rush over to mom's, .. her back gate is stuck .. won't open, she's outside struggling with it, and I'm scared to death she's going to fall out there".

Neighbor sent her husband ...right away, right then.

According to SIL ... the neighbor husband .. went under the auspices that he was there to pull some weeds in her flower bed (he is a gardening enthusiast and has been known to come over from time to time, to plant flowers and or weed, etc, .. though he hasn't done that for a long while). But he did go .. under the guise of "oh hey .. I was just happening over to take a look at the flower bed here and pull some weeds, whatcha got going on there?".

And he fixed it for MIL. MIL never any the wiser, that he'd been prompted to go in that direction by her daughter.

MIL's lack of good judgement. I agree with SIL she really was putting herself in peril to be doing that .. but that's nothing new. Her judgement isn't what it should be.

"Oh but she can manage ... she knows what she needs to do to take care of herself and she's going to do it".

Good, they managed it. THIS TIME ....

Because the neighbor was available, johnny on the spot, right then and there. Next time, neighbor may not be available, and MIL needs to use better judgement ... better judgement as in .. let the lawn guy figure out why the gate won't open, you don't need to be out there pulling and tugging and traversing around ..

But .. "she can manage".

The above, .. prior to now.. would've only been put in our ears to handle .. in the event she could get her mom to wait it out .. she'd of been texting me .. prior to now ... "Hey can you get H to go over to mom's, does he have a few mins ... her gate is stuck for some reason and won't open .. and she keeps saying she's going to go investigate .. I worry she'll fall out there, can you get my brother to go ck out what might be going on with that".

That'd be the only way, previously, .. that would've landed in our ears. Doesn't sound like she'd been able to get a lid on her mom to get her to "wait". So she wouldn't of been calling in this direction for that dilemma. Either one of us, .. we are at the very least 20 mins away (sometimes considerably more than 20 mins, depending on where he or I might be at that very moment).

Poor judgement.

Just a matter of time .. not "if", it's "when" .. it's going to end badly. Always does.

If your husband doesn't care to find out more if MIL has been doing what she is supposed to be doing, then you shouldn't, either. I think you're getting to that point. She's not your mother, after all. SIL and your H had you in the stepin' fetchit role, but you are not removing yourself from that role. Her care is their concern now.

Good job!

Lizzywho, the urgency that I'd be implored to get MIL to the cardio doc with all this would be something along the lines of "She isn't taking her Lasix and that edema is getting worse, .. do you think they need to talk to her, maybe they're talking to her would help, .. do you think maybe there's something else they can offer, . maybe they would need to see her to investigate any cardio issues that are worsening".

That would be about the speed of it all.

My rebuttal, .. "if she won't take her Lasix .. can't take it .. because her "life" is getting in the way ... what good will going to the cardio doc be?".

This particular exchange of dialogue hasn't yet occurred, but similar exchanges have .. numerous times. I agree that it's just senseless to go running to a doctor's office, when they have advised you what to do and you won't/can't do it. They have advised what to do instead (support hose) and you won't do it.

These are the things that I call "fools errands" and I have been sent on too many to count. Thus the backing up now.

Just an interesting observation tonight. Take from it what you will, I know what my take away was. H called his mom tonight, . just a ck-in see how you're doing call.

H has been informed of all the wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth coming from 1K miles away from his sister, (informed by me) w/regard to the groceries not obtained, the Lasix not taken. Generally speaking, his eyes glaze over, for the most part.

I came into the room, he was talking to his mom, just to ck in with her, I asked him, "did she take her Lasix ....???". Not knowing if he'd already covered that ground with her, and/or ignored it entirely.

He then asked her, .. answer given was "yes". He didn't ask anything any further, "did you go get groceries, were you ever able to get that done?, .. how's the edema is it reducing?".

He asked that one simple question, answer given "yes", that sufficed for him. No further elaboration. His approach is probably the healthiest, at least in all of this may lay that goes on. Whether her edema is better or not, .. it's up to her to "manage", right? She's the one insistent that she "knows what she needs to do and she will do it, she will manage". Her words. Whether she got to the store for groceries, .. that's up to her to "manage", right? Why bother wringing hands and gnashing teeth trying to resolve it all .. and jump through hoops. She, so insistent, that she will "manage".

Just interesting to me. Probably a good exchange/dialogue, healthy. But also interesting that I get so bogged in it all, or have in the past ... (not now, now stepping away .. trying to), .... there is no way that I'd be left with one simple question for her,.. and a simple answer. His sister would have the above questions for me, were I the one on the forefront of the dialogue that took place. But he, H, .. he is, for the most part, removed from all that.

Just was interesting.

MIL isn't on oxygen .. and to my knowledge, .. she hasn't ever yet had a problem with her oxygen levels. I guess ...??....that's a later stage of CHF, .. don't know.

Another thing that could go critical would be her oxygen saturation level. My mom didn't know she was having oxygen issues, but her nurse (NH) noticed symptoms, such her nodding off often. When she isn't on O2 (she often refuses to wear it), there's a noticeable change in her cognitive function.

Dorker,
We here on the forum see it because we have lived it. Some with elderly loved ones that finally gave in and accepted help. Others, like myself, whose loved one, my Mother dug in her heels, would accept a housekeeper for a couple weeks then fire them. She would accept home health aides, physical therapy at home for short times then dismiss them. Mother refused going to Independant Living or Assisted Living. Her Dr suggested a Nursing Home. Mother was still competent so our hands were tied. Mother's Dr suggested we back off tending to her every need. This all started unfolding immediately after my Stepdads death. My sister and I offered to stay with Mother for a few days after the death. A calm discussion spiraled downhill with Mother threatening to call the police to have us removed to her home. Sister and I left. Consulted her Dr. Dr said if she refuses in home help and refuses to let you stay with her or her stay with you, you just have to wait for a health crisis. We checked on Mother. Filled her pill box and waited. Eventually there was a health crisis, on to the hospital, then rehab in a nursing home for 100 days, then to a room in the Nursing Home.

Hopefully with you stepping out your hubby and SIL will realize what MILs situation really is. With that being said, that is no guarantee either of them will be able to convince MIL to accept any reasonable suggestion. In that event it sounds like you guys will have to wait for "the event" that lands MIL in the hospital. It sounds like "the event" is not far off considering MIL has, CHF, the resulting edema, then the resulting cellulitis. It does sound heartless to wait but short of stuffing her meds down her throat your hands are tied.

I am curious as to SILs suggestion to get MIL to the Cardiologist. What can he possibly do if she won't comply with her meds? Admit MIL to the hospital?

Yea, so why is it that what I describe as the accurate portrayal of what goes on in this world here ... everyone here can see it as plainly as I do. But the two who count the most, her offspring .... my H .... his words, "I feel for her, I understand her plight, she wants to stay in her own home, I wouldn't want to have to leave my home either and her daughter drives her up a tree, ... *We'll all pitch in and help her as long as we possibly can* .. I understand her feelings". That's H's take on it all.

SIL's take on it "She's just so stubborn .. I want her to come here, at least for an extended visit so I can look after her here, I can't be there all the time, and it's too costly to fly back and forth so frequently .. but she's just so stubborn ... she won't do it. She won't let us bring in outsiders to help .. what are we going to do with her, she's just so stubborn".

The two people who count in all this, her offspring .. the above is the synopsis of their take on it all, with some variations.

I clearly see, .. so clear, 20/20 vision .. "you need to dig in and be just as stubborn", .. but .. I get nowhere. In the meantime, .. SIL with all her directives from 1K miles away .. and wringing her hands with this worry and that worry .. and "mom just struggles so to manage" ..

SIGH

"WHAT DO YOU THINK I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS"

Thus the reason(s) I am backing away. Here we are just a bit over a week since SIL left town. And when SIL is in town, she does everything but breathe for her mother, and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do it too. SIL now home, 1K miles away and all the gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands began. Only this time, she has seen, that the stepper/fetcher meant what she said ... "I am going to be out of pocket as to your mom's assistance".

How is she driving, if she's so so s-l-o-w in every single thing she does? Good question .. thus my suggestion, more than once, .. "one of you needs to get in the car with her and let her drive and assess her abilities at driving".

What happened at that suggestion, the same as so many others ... SIL took her, when she was just here, to renew her DL .. which is now good til 2021. WITHOUT having assessed her capabilities.

And the cellulitis. Been there/done that. MIL has two very, very bad knees. In dire need of need replacement. One more serious than the other. That route was being followed, although there was some consternation between MIL and offspring .. as she insistent that she, like her son (my husband, who has also had a knee replacement but is considerably younger than her and without the health issues she has) .. came right home from surgery, not to rehab. MIL insisting she too would do the same. That dilemma never did get resolved to it's end result.

We were on the route, to at least get the EKG and chest x-ray in place ... and lab work, etc, to get that all accomplished and would get her on the surgery schedule (SIL thinking, .. again .. honest to Pete here, I sound like a damned know it all ... and I don't intend to) .. I had advised that isn't a good idea, so had the doctors ..(her son having weathered a knee replacement weighed in, heavily, in favor of Rehab post-surgery, not straight home)  her to come home straight from the hospital, as opposed to a Rehab facility. SIL had opted that she would come stay with her, for the post-surgery care. MIL on that page .. now going for her prelims on the whole thing, .. in the interim getting steroid shots in her knees to withstand the pain until she could get to the end result.

Off we go to the ortho doc for more steroid shots, .. cellulitis found. Nope, nothing doing, no steroid shot, nothing .. straight to the primary care doc, ... and antibiotics rx'd .. antibiotics then made her sick .. and that whole thing spiraled downhill, and the knee replacement issue .. it's been shelved, for now.  It kind of surprises me that she is a candidate in any way/shape/form for knee replacement to even be considered, considering her lack of any real ability to ambulate for rehabbing the knee (balance issues resulting from a stroke so long ago .. and loss of muscle tone because of age .. and the the stroke/balance issues).   But I am not by any stretch, a medical professional, to know whether or not she should even undergo such.    She has been to two orthopedic docs though, with the knee issues and both are ready/willing/able "let's do this" on the knee surgery thing.   What do I know?    I'm not a medical professional.    Maybe people in worse shape than her withstand the rigors of TKR.     

She gets periodic steroid shots to help her withstand the discomfort of her failing knees. But yes, she's been the route of the cellulitis and knows the edema can result in same .. yet .. her failure to be able to manage to take the Lasix .. because "life" gets in the way.

Oh but her words, "I know what I have to do here, I have to take good care of myself, and I will do it, I will manage".

Her daughter's words, "She's just so stubborn ..............."

Her son's words, "I feel for her, I know she wants to stay in her own home .... we'll all pitch in".

There ya have it.

Everyone here on the forum seems to be able to see what I see. The two folks that count the most in this .. stick their heads up their a&%es .. and allow the status quo to continue, and then one of them wrings her hands from afar .. sending directives my way as to the management of it all.

THAT, is why we are where we are with it all.

So, if she has such mobility problems, how on earth is she driving, getting out of the car, getting into the grocery store, etc.?

Probably a very silly question on my part--v-e-r-y slowly is the answer, right?

Dorker- I am waaay to familiar with that line of reasoning when it comes to taking Lasix.

My father had CHF. In the beginning it wasn't much of an issue - and good thing cause my dad was a really active guy - stilled skied, took bike rides and hiked in the Columbia River Gorge - plus volunteer work for the National Forest Service into his early 80's.

But then the CHF started to get worse and Lasix was prescribed. It didn't take long for my dad to get frustrated with having to pee all the time - it just interfered to d*mn much with his life style. So dad started playing all loosey-goosey with pills and times he took them. That lead to him being up all night peeing and getting no sleep. That lead to a fall - one he pretty much recovered from - not all the way but enough so he didn't learn his lesson.

More loosey-goosey pill playing around that lead to other health problems and guess what? Health crisis, five weeks in rehab, had to sell the house and dad and mom moved into IL. Daddy kept saying he was going to recover - had a failed surgery unrelated to his heart - but possibly related to his fooling around with his Lasix - regardless, as it really didn't matter cause by this time daddy had a full-time paid caregiver and needed to use a walker - all the time.

My father had no dementia or cognitive decline at the time he made the choices he did with his Lasix. It was likely more of a case of "what's the worst that can happen" attitude. Guess he found out, huh?

Just for fun I'll throw in my mothers experience with not wearing her support hoses, not keeping her feet elevated, not restricting her salt AND not taking her Lasix. Moms ankles swelled up to the point there was no definition from her thigh to her ankles. Moms darling, baby cat scratched her calf and since the skin was stretched tight as a drum - punctured the skin. Mom got cellulitis which lead to a fall - probably due to her being near septic. Three weeks in rehab, move to AL, fell in AL too frequently and from cat scratch to the move to a nursing home - about three months. But what's the worst that can happen? My mom thought she was managing, too.

She has Poise and Depends and such, yes. Wouldn't that make good sense, if you have to go out and about, I suppose. I don't know ... I haven't had to live it myself. Maybe that is really unpleasant, to be out and about doing your errands and have soaked Depends ..??.... I don't know.

Has anyone thought to mention that wearing a Poise pad is the solution to the Lasix problem?

This one goes into the file marked "unmanageable". She doesn't take her Lasix as she should, because she struggles with "managing" it's effects. She has such a hard time with mobility. It is a big problem for her, to plant one foot, then the other, and stay upright. She moves very very slowly trying to do that.   We won't even go there as to the struggle it is for her to get from a seated position to standing, and then make forward motion.    Suffice it to say, it takes a l-o-n-g time for that process to take place.   

Lasix, by it's very nature, .. one shouldn't get very far from a bathroom. Made even worse when she has to go out and about in public to accomplish anything, thus her reticence to take it.

She's been advised if she can't take it routinely, she needs to utilize support hose. Her arthritic hands prohibit her ability to work with support hose. I have suggested a home health aide be assigned to assist, a few x's weekly with that endeavor. Nope. Not doing that. (as with all my suggestions it seems)

She can't consistently take it, because "life" gets in the way.

I guess for someone who doesn't suffer from mobility issues, it's a big enough pain in the a&% to deal with having to run back and forth to the bathroom continually. But, . if you struggle with planting one foot in front of the other and getting from point A to B and remaining upright, it's almost insurmountable.

Forget having to go somewhere.

I file the not taking it yesterday when it became apparent the grocery wasn't to happen (because of bad storms in this area), lack of ability to prioritize.

Myself? Most folks, I guess ..??....absent cognitive decline .. they'd be able to prioritize, "gee this weather looks awfully bad, I guess I'll scrap the plans for the day to go anywhere, better get that Lasix going, not going anywhere anyway .. what better time to get on to that task and get it handled".

Those who are elderly and suffer from the inability to prioritize and sequence, etc .. probably pretty common they'd not do so.

Good news, is that I've not heard a word from SIL today. That either means that her mom had a good day today and was on it, as far as the tasks needing to be seen to (doubtful) or that she is busy herself, and preoccupied or .... (maybe just maybe) she got my drift when I responded with, "your mother's words, I know what I need to do, and I will do it, I will manage, let her .. go plan for your visit from your son and his family and enjoy them and I'll do the same on this end with my soon to arrive twin newborn g'kids. Maybe, just maybe, she went away to lick her wounds having not gotten the gratification of a stepper fetcher to resolve it. Don't know, haven't asked, won't be asking.

I want to add...Due to MILs refusal to take her meds, the edema, etc, I think you chose a good time to turn MILs care over to her children. You certainly do not want to be blamed for mis managing MILs CHF. Of course there's nothing you could do! If she refuses to comply with the meds what else can you do?!?

IMHO, your timing to remove yourself is over due. Not judging at all, some of us have done the same. Your level of anger, frustration and anxiety was a definite red flag that it was time to make your exit. You were setting yourself up for health problems of your own.

Dorker,
It is hard to be a part of and watch. It's obvious to you MIL can't manage. Hopefully it is becoming increasingly clear to SIL and your DH also. Let's hope MILs kids can eventually convince MIL to let hired help come in a few times a week to supervise her shower oversee her meds and run her to the store or Drs appts. MIL will see this as hampering her independence but refusing help, well without help some of us know where this is headed. But it is her decision.

I think by you stepping back you are doing what is best for everyone in the long run. I don't think your MIL, SIL, and your DH appreciated or even realized how much they depended on you. I hope SIL is starting to see that. The sooner the better. Surely, you understand your stepping back in even for the smallest of tasks is like 2 steps forward and 1 step back in your mission here.

Unfortunately, it's time for SIL and DH to assume responsibility for their Mother and her decisions and her stubbornness.

It appears your SIL realizes in light of MILs CHF her refusing to take her Meds and her edema MIL is making bad, bad decisions. Now how long before she hops a plane to get the situation under control is out of your control.

Stay strong. From one former "stepper and fetcher" to another I know how hard this is for you.

Maybe it's the gloomy weather out, but it's all making me very sad today. I guess maybe that's a stage too in it all. I've been so angry with it all, maybe now it moves to sadness.

It's making me sad to watch the struggle .. a struggle I know exists .. but .. am stepping back from.

As I continue on here, working to try to disengage from it all (seems to be a work in progress). I guess one doesn't go from running on the hamster wheel for 14 years .. to nothing.

Had those texts from SIL yesterday afternoon/evening that I hadn't responded to .. let them lay .. for several hours before I responded. Her wringing her hands that her mom needs to get to the grocery to get a few things (her mother is an absolute master at doing with what she has on hand, maybe a throwback to the depression era that generation remembers well) .. rather than get on out to the store, like I would do, my generation, her mother is a master at making do with what she has on hand. She will eat a bowl of green beans and a mix of tuna .. and a cracker ..

Seems she is out of milk, cereal, fruit, bread .. that kinda thing. But this isn't a situation where the woman is down to bare cupboards and not a thing to eat. Never.

SIL wringing her hands that her mom needs to get to the grocery . but she also needs to be taking her Lasix .. but she also has the yard people coming, . that it's all going to be too much for her mom .. that she will likely get thru tomorrow (which is now today) and still no Lasix . and no trip to the store. That text hanging .. no response, for several hours.

I finally did respond ... (maybe should've just never even addressed it all).

But I'm getting there, trying to.

I responded "hope she can get it worked out .. she is so vehemently opposed to any help .. her words "she will manage, she will do it" come to mind .. let her. That's all we can do .. your son and his family come within days .. you had to go home to prepare for that, look forward to visiting with them .. and enjoying them .. and I will do the same here as I wait for my newborn g'kids to arrive.

Got back from her "yep".

Good!

She is thinking out loud, via text .. which has been, til now .. a way to get me engaged, and hopping to ...

It is no longer going to happen. That is what I've said all along.

I have no need to be cruel to her or unkind (as she wrings her hands from afar with it all). I try to be understanding what it must be like to have to be so far away from your mom, who is indeed, struggling to manage. I know it must be tough. So I have no need to be cruel to SIL and blast her, though that temptation is there, at times.

This, what we are watching .. is the least of it, .. of her mother "managing". Her words, "I know what I have to do and I will do it, I will manage". THIS is what her "managing" looks like on a daily basis. The very reasons I implored there needs to be some other measures taken here, to no avail.

And heaven forbid .. things go off into the ditch with illness and/or a fall.

So be it.

Yes, I will not be a bit surprised .. SIL is relentless in her wringing of her hands and worry .. she will text again today that her mother never go to the store, .. never took her Lasix .. she just couldn't get it done.

Not a surprise here, as the person who has been on the forefront .. managing all the above, when SIL isn't on the scene.

I will get another text, it's not "if", it's "when" .. as to her mother's inability to accomplish above.

I think that by this afternoon, your SIL will be in a panic that MIL is not taking her meds and can't get out to get food. Don't reply, or forward to dear husband (DH).

Your MIL needs MUCH more help than anyone not living with her can give; her inability to prioritize her needs and manage them seems to me to be clear-cut evidence of cognitive decline. Someone needs to step in and say "Mom, this is how it's going to be from now on".

That, of course, will NOT be you. Your SIL and DH are going to have to learn to work together and to stand up to their mom.

Saying to my mother "Mom, I can't do this anymore" was probably the hardest thing I ever did. But in helping my mother get into the living situation she NEEDED and not the one she WANTED made HER life safer and happier, ultimately. And allowed me to keep my sanity AND my career.

That's probably a splendid idea, to let the texts lay. Don't have to respond on any time-clock. I think back in the day when we didn't have "text" it was much easier, as you are moving about your day, the phone rings, you answer it or don't, and easier to respond, "Oh geeze, I was right in the middle of ___________and _______________ let me get back with you later". And then get back with the party that called, at your convenience.

Texting .. it's much the same. I don't automatically pick up and respond, the second the text comes in. In fact, I can't, typically. Today a great example, 4 year old under foot. I would respond .. generally, when I can. But certainly not waiting until the next day to do so.

That may be a great idea to try to do.   I like that phrase Momshelp "Keep me Posted".  I like that.   Great ideas here.   Thanks so much to all who provide input here, it's immensely appreciated.   

The hamster wheel I've run on for the last several years, it's slowing .. but hasn't slowed enough yet that I've stepped off of it. Obviously. Getting there though, step by step.

Dorker, so happy you're able to stick to your guns so far. I know it's only been a week but great going considering your habit & nature is to step right in. I don't doubt you love your MIL but something had to give. I wish I could manage my mother from 1K miles away & have someone like you do it. Just kidding because I WOULD ABSOLUTELY know that would be wrong of me & my mother in her right mind would be horrified to know she got to the point of allowing it. You are doing 100% what you need to do. I like to use the phrase "keep me posted", because it makes it clear I'm not going to do anything on my end. Keep going Dorker & by the time the twins come even the texts should stop.

Just not answering the texts would slow them down tremendously. Maybe answer back sometimes, the next day. When your SIL doesn't get the immediate gratification of a quick response, she will stop texting continually. You need to train her on how to act

It doesn't seem like you are disengaging if you are having conversation and conversation with SIL, and becoming angry and upset over and over again.

Does it seem logical not to answer the phone? Or, if you answer, say you are just on your way out of the house on an errand, and will have to keep it brief? And, to suggest SIL calls her brother to discuss. Going round and round with SIL all the time is like going round and round with MIL all the time. Seems unnecessary to keep rehashing over and over again. Perhaps a hmmmm, gotta go is appropriate.

I wish my saying to SIL, "do you see, you have been gone from here a mere week, .. and you have already blown up my phone with "need" for your mom to have two more walkers, . and you did take that in the direction of a neighbor. Whether neighbor will see that thru to any success, .. we shall see ... but you've already within 1 week of being gone, blown up my phone with a "need" .. or a "subtle hint" of a need."

Wish I could tell her, "inside of the week you've been gone, now you are also blowing up my phone with the concern over the edema in her lower legs .. and her failure to take her Lasix . .and her failure to get to the store"

"Why is it you don't see that this is her "managing" her life ... and I see in it, that she can't adequately do it .. she is rocking along at this point, relatively okay .. but if she should fall, or get sick .. or her dog gets sick .. all the above, which is really pretty helter skelter as it is .. but relatively okay, goes off into the ditch pretty quickly. Why can't you see that? Why do I see it, and you don't".

"Do you ever even stop to realize just how many tasks you put in my corner to go handle, in your absence here .. do you ever stop to think about that .. and the realization that she is NOT MY MOTHER.. she is YOUR MOTHER, you and your brother .. does that never even dawn on you. You live 1K miles away .. when the day comes that my mother is ailing and/or my father .. whom both live here in this city .. and fortunately at this point, are still healthy .. but my day will come, when I am left with no choice but to step and fetch for them .. both of them at once possibly .. and I can say without a doubt, you will not be flying in from 1K miles away to step and fetch for me, as I've done for you and you brother".

Some variations of all of the above, .. have been said .. in the past .. to SIL. To no avail. Some have been said to H .. .and to no avail.

It all gets left with "She is just so stubborn .. she won't let anyone help .. she won't come here to stay with me ... she is just so stubborn". What that extrapolates out to .. is that she is allowed to continue to be stubborn .. and fail to be able to "manage" her own life .. and a SIL 1K miles away .. wholeheartedly engaged from afar, .. throwing directives in my corner, as to the latest need/want/whim.

It does no good to say any of the above, to any of the parties involved. It's so hard for me to connect the dots on why it is I'm the only one that sees this.

The only thing I can do is continue to disengage and that I am doing.

I have a text right now from SIL, that I haven't even responded to, "did mother ever mention if she is reconsidering coming here to stay . did she talk to you guys about it".

Why isn't she directing this question to her brother?

Because her brother .. doesn't really engage with her, I do. Or have in the past.

Another text, .. expressing that her mom never did get to the grocery today .... nor did she take her Lasix .. and that she's concerned about the edema in her mother's legs .. and she has got to take that Lasix ... and that she .. is going to have to figure a way (her mother does) .. that she can manage to get the items she needs from the store . but get back and take the much needed Lasix .. that her mother needs to plan to go early to the store, but .. expresses .. (true) .. you know her, she just can't move fast enough to do that .. and so before she knows it the day is gone .. and she hasn't done anything".

These are the texts I have waiting for me, that I've yet to respond to.

Clear to me, implicit in those texts, would be a wish that I would hop on board .. "hey no problem, I can run go grab a few things for her, an run them out to her".

And I certainly could. But that defeats the purpose, and it also doesn't address the problem that there will be another and another and another and another .. on and on and on it goes .. request/whim/need, to step and fetch for.

It's all so maddening. If she's going to be left with the latitude to say the words, "I know what I have to do here, and I will do it, I will manage", and her son and her daughter both are going to give her that rope ..... and apparently they are .. as they refuse to do anything any differently.

Then .. her lack of ability to do what she says she can do (but can't actually do it) .. doesn't then fall on me any longer.

We have offered so many COUNTLESS times, .. to have the grocery delivery come to her, .. and we would work with her, to make sure all items get purchased. The answer given is: "I like to go there myself, in case I see something that interests me".

She rarely buys anything that interests her. I do understand .. she gets out so seldom .. and so for her, it's a bit of a social outlet as I said earlier in a post. Where she engages any living being that will talk with her.

As long as she can "manage" on her own to do these things. HOORAY for all involved, including her. Personally, I think she should ride one of those Hoveraround carts they have at the store, but of course she won't HEAR OF THAT.

My whole aim here is to disengage from that which she so aptly says and so frequently, "I know what I need to do and I'll do it, I'll manage". I know darn well, she doesn't .... not routinely. And I intend to disengage, .. from the scads of things she can't routinely do, while her daughter and her son .. walk along with their heads up their a&%es on the topic.

As we see with this whole dilemma .. the whole debate .. coming from SIL .. 1K miles away .. that she's worried her mother won't take her Lasix .. because it will cause her issues .. when she has to leave the house to go accomplish something. SIL would have it that I step right into this fold ... and offer to pick up the slack.

In fact, SIL has texted me this afternoon that MIL never did get to the grocery, nor did she take her Lasix. She didn't take her Lasix because she had every intention of leaving the house, but she never left the house.

It stormed here, almost all afternoon, buckets of rain. Thus, MIL's hesitancy to get out and go anywhere.

But isn't that part of "I'll manage, I know what I need to do here, and I'll manage".

So, SIL blowing up my phone with all of this .. that her mother didn't get to the store, didn't take her Lasix .. it's pointless. Unless she wants me to engage in it all, which I'm no longer interested in doing.

You're learning to disengage, Dorker! Good job!

No arguing, no pointing out what you've said before...just hmmmmm.

Now, if it comes to a direct request, it comes as a surprise! "Oh, my, run to the store for two items? Not a good use of my time. You should ring up the grocery that delivers and get mom everything she needs for the next week. Get her on the phone so she can make a list with you".

"She won't hear of it? Well, that's just sad that she's become so inflexible. If she won't accept outside help, it's clear it's time for her to go to Assisted Living, where her needs can be met."

Keep the script by the phone.

You're learning to disengage, Dorker! Good job!

No arguing, no pointing out what you've said before...just hmmmmm.

Today's worry dujour text from sil .. informing me that she spoke, only briefly, with her mother this morning as she has some things on her end pressing . and didn't have a lot of time.

She mentions that her mother is planning a trip to the grocery store, .. on her own .. to get milk and bread, which she is out of (we do have grocery stores that deliver here, btw, that too has been refused). SIL expressing concern that MIL's edema in her lower legs still seems to be a big problem, that she worries she won't take her Lasix .. because she has to go to the store. Mentions being upset that they aren't yet seeing the promised improvement via the venuous procedures they had done when she was here.

Now, .. as BrooklynBarb mentioned previously . this family does have an oblique way of laying on you, the concerns/deeds, in need.

Heretofore, the above .. I would have offered perhaps .. "well I have my 4 yo g'daughter today .. but I can load her up and go get what MIL needs at the store, .. and take it to her".

That might've also been followed by SIL's request, "I wonder if she needs to be seen at the cardio doc . that edema doesn't seem to be reducing , maybe I should call and get her an appointment, do you think you'd be available to get her there".

Heretofore, before now .. the above would've been status quo.

Henceforth, however, I did not volunteer to resolve any of the above, nor a reminder that there are grocery stores that deliver if one wishes. Been there/done that as to suggestions. I only said in response, "yes I noticed the swelling when we were with her yesterday, does seem to be a problem, hope it works itself out".

Could I load up my 4 yo g'daughter and go satisfy this, which is a pretty simple need? Yes, I could. Very easily. But that negates what I'm trying to do here .. one thing begets another and another and another .. of the wild goose chases, and endless need, which I said very clearly I would not be addressing. Not going to back down.

If we're all going to be on the assumption here that MIL is given the latitude to refuse outside help, .. SIL is unable to be here to manage said care .. and/or MIL isn't pushed to come to where SIL lives to be looked after because after all, MIL's words .. "I know what I need to do here, and I will manage, I will do it". If I heard those words once, I've heard then 1000 x's. So .. there ya go .. manage.

SIL has been gone a week .. and already was in my ear, . if I'd care to take on the mission of getting another wheelie walker or two for her mom. Nope .. didn't engage.

In my ear about the edema in her mother's legs and that problem .. not engaging.

I hope this does get easier, in time. My nature, is to hop in and resolve .. particularly if it's a menial task as above, run to the grocery for two items. But .. I am not going to be doing so, as I won't be able to do even the most menial of tasks here shortly when I am caring for my daughter, and two newborns. I don't intend to drag a 4 yo, and two newborns to the store, to pick up incidental items. Not when there is grocery delivery readily available, and it is declined.

It's going to be a rough road, .. for the SIL .. who wants to "delegate" by way of "subtle suggestion", daily as to the latest need. She will have to get on board here, and realize .. when I said her mom will be on her own, that is the absolute truth. Absent her willingness to let any outsiders help, which was also a suggestion in all of this.

Hard not to be a smart A&% .... and say to her, "gee .. ya know, .. your worry that she stay home so she can continue the Lasix regiment .. seems we've discussed numerous times, grocery delivery as an option . or maybe engaging the help of neighbors that have offered, ... I guess you'll have to find a way of not concerning yourself with it all, as I'm having to do".

But I didn't say all that. It does no good, I've tried.

Dorker, your new responses to SIL are good. Stay on track with that. The "new you" will be hard for the Needy Nuts to accept. They'll try new ways and old ways to revert you to full-time errand horse. Stay strong! We're rooting for you.