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I don't have major issues with hybrids - I think in many cases, the plants are good ones. But I also am grateful for people like Seed Savers Exchange for preserving the old varieties. It's important to preserve varieties that may contain traits we will need in the future, like drought resistance. I love seeing seeds like Anasazi beans and Glass Gem corn being grown out to where they are widely available.
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I am not denying the Texas corn incident, but all I find is something back in 1968 which says it was an isolated incident. If those of you who know more about it can pm me a link...I am interested in reading about this.

I am excited about my orchid. I know this is an indoor plant or a greenhouse plant...but I am excited that it is growing a blooming stem.
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I am not familiar with the hybrid seed issue in Texas, but you have sparked my curiosity. Gonna research that too.
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Thank you CM and GA, I will research it.
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I'm with Linda. The Texas incident is a good reason why hybrid seed can be unreliable. They might be bred to resist certain diseases, but not others.

I would never rely on hybrid seed for vegetables that I absolutely have to have.

Sharyn, research natural methods to control white flies. Organic neem oil might be one way. If you're planting the cosmos in the same area and they repeatedly are attacked by white flies, try another area. That's one thing that organic gardeners do is rotate their crops.
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My trio of infallible, long blooming annuals: cosmos, zinnias and marigolds. Bonus that they are all easy to save seeds from because I am cheap! It is fortunate that I favour a more naturalized garden plan because they do tend to over grow, I haven't been able to walk the sidewalk from deck to shed because the plants got so big they spread across. They are still looking lovey too, at least from a distance, but any day now there will be snow or a killer frost and I will have to get to work tidying up.
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French marigold, apparently - tagetes patula, to distinguish it from the African marigold - deters whitefly. Is it whitefly that's the problem, or just small flies that are white? Might be worth a try next season, perhaps, anyway.

Of course, that doesn't help if you can't take marigolds at any price. I know people are always yakking on about how useful they are but I must admit I can live without them.

I've tried cosmos before without success. This year I saw an especially pretty variety and decided to give it a go. Double flowered frilly white jobs, supposed to be eighteen inches tall. Well! They're currently four feet tall, they've taken over half the bed, they're not only still flowering they're still budding, and although they are indeed just as pretty as the packet said they would be, and the dill-like foliage is lovely, they've been at it for nearly three months and I have discovered that you can get quite tired of even the loveliest flowers. Especially when you are anxious to start digging in compost and dividing your perennials and rearranging your borders and they're in the WAY...
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What about companion planting, Sharyn? I haven't checked, but there are usually some plants you can grow alongside that flower slightly early that the insects won't like, or that prevent them from scenting the ones they attack.
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Linda, I love cosmos but every time I plant the seeds, they are attacked by white flies. I have not found a why to control the white fly issue even though cosmos are very easy to grow from seed.
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If memory serves me, there was a situation in Texas many years ago where the corn farmers all planted seeds from the same strain of hybrid. Disease hit and they all lost their crops. I like using my own seed for the simple reason that the plants are stronger and bigger because they're acclimated to my climate etc. I have a cosmos plant taller than I am....third year volunteer. Lettuce bolts later.
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It is not exactly GMOs themselves that effect pollinators, it is the increased use of neonicotinoids and herbicides such as Roundup on GMO crops. And it is not the GMOs that are threatening biodiversity in and of themselves, it is the fact that farmers around the world are abandoning older seed strains and almost exclusively planting GMOs, which offer better disease/drought/insect resistance and thus higher yields.
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There are also concerns about how GMOs affect pollinators. Some long term effects haven't yet been identified.
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You are correct CM....that is why the company I worked for had a seed library with packets of hybrid seeds for growers. The search goes on for new hybrids each growing season, sending the seeds to Australia in our autumn so they can grow them out for further testing during their spring/summer. 2 years of research in one year...basically.Once these hybrids are approved for the grower to use in their fields, they are mass produced by the acreage, stored and available to the grower until the next hybrid is approved.

GMO's causes much concerns about it affecting our own DNA, leading to the wide spread problems we see now such as dementia, cancer, birth defects. I admit I am not educated or knowledgeable enough to understand it in the full context, but...I am concerned enough that when I can find organic, I buy it.
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It's the unintended consequences that are to be feared with GMOs. Hybrids are often sterile, or don't run true to type, or flourish for a few seasons and then drop off in performance; but they don't generally come to dominate an eco-system. Genetic modification is usually aimed at making a plant hugely successful in its given environment so that it will tend to overwhelm competitors. If something then goes wrong with *it*, and it's already eliminated other species, you could end up with seriously depleted flora and all the problems associated with that - basically it could be a menace to biodiversity.

*Could* being the operative word. But the idea of assuming that the plant technology companies have done as much due diligence as you'd expect makes me for one very uneasy.
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GMO's and Monsanto does cause debate. I would like food without gmo's and organic gardening would be ideal, maybe when I retire I will have time for a vegetable garden again. We had some plots by Monsanto at the place I worked. This company stopped growing monsantos trial plots when gmo's became a big issue back in the late 90's.
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CWillie's point about the mega corporations is a very good one, and is a major factor in the GMO debate.
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Briefly, and without getting into the discussion of the GMO issues, it depends on your viewpoint. Farmers plant GMO seeds for better, more stable production - their end goal is after all, $$$$. Organic gardeners want purity of food, no gene meddling, so we detest anything that's modified.

There's a level above this analysis, and that's that we in fact are also genetically modified, but it's "natural selection". Other than Dolly the Sheep, or Frankenstein, we aren't (yet?) test tube babies (other than by in vitro). But fetus genes aren't modified to produce blondes, brunettes, etc.

And, w/o getting deeply into the issue of how humans evolved, that would be a basic genetic mutation.

We've been modified as we've adapted over thousands of years. Humans certainly weren't the first species on earth. And I would guess that speaking rather than grunting has something to do with basic changes that affected vocal chords.
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The use of GMOs is one of the great debates, the fact that they are controlled and patented by mega corporations just makes the whole issue more complicated.
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Is the GMO a negative then, a bad thing, or is it just a matter of opinion?
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There is a bird on my back porch (It's not alive) that is motion activated. It plays a realistic song, very pretty. Reminds me of the parakeets growing up. And the wild parrots that were flying through our area near the L.A. County Arboretum in a flock, making noises. Well, this fake, motion activated parakeet goes off at other times too-when there is no motion. Maybe it is coming alive for halloween-but it is creeping me out when it does that-when no one is there, and I am home alone.
I am going to keep it though, because when talking to hubs, I could be at the sink
and he asks a question-thought we were talking-and then he is gone-just disappears-so often and so quickly. But now, when "Budgie" starts to sing, I know hubs went to the back porch. Somehow, that is less frustrating to me to know where he went in the middle of the conversation. Tweet tweet.
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"A hybrid vegetable is created when plant breeders intentionally cross-pollinate two different varieties of a plant, aiming to produce an offspring, or hybrid, that contains the best traits of each of the parents."
"GMO plants, on the other hand, are the result of genetic engineering. This is a process during which the plant’s DNA is altered in a way that cannot occur naturally, and sometimes includes the insertion of genes from other species."
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Churchmouse,
Fortunately I cannot even read the labels on seed packets, that excuse could hold up in a court of law-"I didn't read it." Which is why I have yet to find seeds for growing alfalfa sprouts-hubs had to look for me! Got to get my eyes checked.

Cwillie, It now appears that Organic farmers would disagree-nothing sinister there-but your words were comforting to me anyway. I don't know what to believe anymore.
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I think one was a ceanothus, and the other might have been a daphne. Monsanto hadn't occurred to me, but if it wasn't them it might have been some other corporate evil genius.

But when it comes to retailing to the average amateur gardener, they're being rather naive - ironically enough. What on earth makes them think we necessarily read the care labels???
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CM, I suspect you've seen a plant created by the infamous Monsanto, a dirty word to organic gardeners. It's a new version of the despised colonialism - it's an agricultural colonial power.

Naomi Klein's book Shock Doctrine addresses the method by which companies like Monsanto and other powerful companies get a foothold in what at one time were referred to as Third World Countries, with the help of the US government's aid programs after disasters.

Google "Monsanto, Iraq" and read the blurb that's the first hit. It and others address how Monsanto wormed its way into being a literal sole source supplier of seeds to Iraqi farmers. Gives new meaning to American actions in Iraq.

I would bet dollars to donuts any twig you tried to root from a Monsanto plant wouldn't be anything like the original plant. I''m sure Monsanto's scientists are devoted to ensuring that doesn't happen.

That's one of the reasons gardeners are adamant about using heirloom varieties and seeds from their own stock, not to mention the whole controversy about GMOs.
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Speaking of propagation, has anyone else noticed the odd label on plants saying "propagation prohibited" - presumably under some kind of intellectual property law?

I have to say that as far as I'm concerned it's a bit of a red rag to a bull, though. I mean, "catch me if you can" - how's it my fault if I cut a twig or two and they just happen to root?
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SendMe, savings seeds is de rigeur with organic and serious gardeners. Seed swaps are common; gardeners post their lists of available and desired seeds on gardening forums and connect with others.

Some people have over a few dozen lists of seeds to swap.

You'll also find a lot of information on saving heirloom seeds, that produce crops that are true to the originals, as opposed to the hybrids (which some gardeners shun b/c they've been manipulated to produce crops with specific characteristics).

If you don't know how to save seed from a particular vegetable or fruit, post your question on a gardening forum and you'll get a lot of answers.

There are seed savers exchanges, as well as heirloom seed companies.

Amy Goldman is a famous seed saver and grower of unusual and heirloom vegetable varieties. She's appeared on The Victory Garden several times, and is quite a delightful person.

Search for Amy Goldman Fowler and check out her website.
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SharynMarie,
Always post more, others come here for therapy, ya know! And if there wasn't any bloomin posts about flowers blooming, well then, that would just be sad.
People would be falling asleep in their outhouses, no, I mean their hothouse, waiting for something to bloom.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, is it a flower yet? Lol.
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Linda22,
Thank you for the info on seeds, a ways back. That was appreciated, and I was sure I said something, but don't see it here.
So, thanks!
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One more post, I promise, lol!!! My orchid is (I think) growing out a blooming stem. This is awesome as it confirms I am providing g the right conditions for a hard to grow air plant. I will keep you posted as to whether it is a blooming stem of another air root.
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The bare root rhizome irises I planted are from bulbs that have developed a root system and probably grew and bloomed one season...GA may have more input on this....but this is what I am currently understanding.
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