Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...
You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill". Like its my fault because I went away!
STILL not taking all his medication that the GP gave him so I offer ZERO sympathy. Basically, wants me to tell him how he can feel better - "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go an see you're GP but I'm not a doctor."
His words - "I desperately need you to visit the weekend." "I've got no food in the house" (Brother lives literally 5 mins drive from him - I live 35-40 mins. Brother is probably laying low). Anyway, he knows my car is in the garage so I'm struggling for transport and he knows my wife works weekends so may need our other car. So I tell him I can't promise. Anyone would have thought I'd told him I'd murdered the family next door.
Apparently, I'm "letting him down" and "need to arrange something", and "wife needs to understand". Of course the standby offer of home delivery groceries is not good enough - he doesn't want to spend the £30 minimum - they have to be hand delivered by me!
I've tried setting boundaries, I've said no can do, I've tried ignoring, I've tried just not doing. Give him his due he's relentless in his quest to get me to do what he wants!
Thanks for your reply. I can tell that you are well aware of his tactics. I don’t blame you for backing off and not calling him or seeing him very often, even if there wasn’t a quarantine in place you wouldn’t need to have a great deal of contact with him.
Why fuel his behavior? Best to ignore it. He won’t change his ways at this late stage in life. So why torture yourself proving a point that he won’t appreciate? It would be a total waste of time and energy. The only thing it would accomplish is to raise your blood pressure and annoy you.
It truly is foolish to expect irrational people to respond with a ‘normal’ reaction. So, great job at keeping your distance from him!
Take care, Paul
I get that hes lonely but so are a lot of people. Last night I had 10 mins of him arguing that I should be allowed to visit him. I did what you all said, put the phone down, said "hmmm" now and again.
Then I had the "woe is me brother has been laid off from work". Way OTT.
Quite ironic because 3 weeks ago, he was telling me how people who work in the Steel industry and going to be safe because its "important" but I must be worried because they can do without "office workers". Cheers Dad. Umm nope I'm still working, getting paid, and very busy thank you.
(I honestly never understand his stance that Son A is a hard working manual worker, but Son B- me- must be "one of those managers" because he works in an office so its easy).
Turns out brother (whos a welder and I know earns a decent amount due to long hours) decided not to save a penny and spent it all. I didn't laugh too much honestly. I'm going to hell.
I did say Oh hes got plenty of time to drop food in for you now then ;-)
Hes worried about brother now because hes still got to pay child support for his kids from other relationships. So can I phone the child support people and explain hes not going to pay because hes not got a job?
Ummm NO WAY.
Thats Dad for you. Bottom priority is kids from past relationship.
As the old saying goes "If you don't want it in your pay docket, keep it in your pocket".
And well done on saying no to the unsafe visit.
He wants you to call the child support people? He really ascribes super powers to you, doesn't he!?
Keep up the good work, kiddo!
Yay! Good for you. Congrats! 🍻
You don’t have to prove anything to him. It’s more important to prove to yourself that you don’t need to listen to his ranting or worse, try and reason with him, which includes explaining anything to him. No explanation necessary! He either isn’t capable or won’t agree or respect anything you have to say, so why bother?
You have clearly succeeded in ignoring his shenanigans! You didn’t make the mistake of fueling his foolishness which only gives him a chance to have a never ending debate.
Open minded people are worth debating with because they are willing to listen and learn. People who are narrow minded and stubborn rarely listen to others. Your dad and brother only care about their choices in life.
When I realized that I needed to let go of trying to convince my mother of what I felt was important it was liberating! We won’t convince them (your dad or my mom) of a damn thing!
I know how you feel about your dad’s feelings concerning your brother. My mom did the same with me. She praised my brothers. Well, it cost her in the end. Just like it’s costing your dad. They lost the opportunity to have a harmonious relationship because they left us no choice but to severely limit our relationship with them.
Your brother made really selfish choices in life. You made responsible choices. Good for you. Too bad for him. He had the same opportunity as you and failed. Oh well...that was his decision and now he has to deal with the consequences.
"I did say Oh hes got plenty of time to drop food in for you now then ;-)"
YES!
Even better, if he's so hard up and can't pay his rent, he can move in with dad and take care of him!!! :-D Surrrre, like that'll ever happen.
Your dad must think you have some kind of super powers, if he thinks you can call and get bro out of this situation. That won't happen. Bro got hisself into it, he can deal with it. He's a grown man, he needs to deal with his own beds that he made. Maybe go to jail, then don't have to worry about lack of income.... Dad thinks this is so easy, maybe HE should call the people and turn on the tears for them, mah poor boy, mah poor boy... oh this is so wrong.
Counter is the best place for the phone. Mind elsewhere, mouth mutters some noise to indicate you are still there (but not really listening...)
THAT was some SGN from Paul!!! Woo Hoo!
(P.S. If you're going to hell for thinking or saying anything, be assured you'll have great company there! I'll buy the first round...)
"pat, pat"
👍
My MIL called a week back & is worried as my BIL may lose his job. My DH hears it & has empathy but he doesn't have any pressure about it. He is required do nothing more than listen to MIL's concern - she was not trying to push the responsibility of fixing it into him or anyone else. It was sort of.. what will he do? 'Spose he'll have to look for other work? Apply for the dole? Talk to the bank?
So how does that differ?
I think it's the constant PUSHING. The constant message of *you have to fix it* that is being sent & Paul picks up on. Whether it is groceries or brother's alimony. Paul's Dad could be just sharing his concerns... but it sound more like he wants Paul to fix all their problems (??? why). As we know waiting for him to change his ways is just wishful thinking & wasted energy. That ain't never gunna happen!
Noticing this habbit (dysfunction) in my family & sending it back to them IS working for me. It takes practice though.
I'm calling it ping pong time. Dads throwing balls every phone call. He says Ping! I need favorite meal. Paul says Pong! OK, so YOU can call the shop. Get them delivered. Dad says Ping! Brother needs someone to call about his job/kids/money... Paul says Pong! Well that's HIS biz, he will have to sort that out.
I think if your defences are made of big open mesh, then the balls get through each time. Then the guilt starts & you think, oh maybe I should help with that. But if your walls are a bit stronger, say a bit higher, stronger, the balls won't get through so much. And when they do - bam, back at you.
Some people don't just throw little ping pong balls, they aim one of those concrete mixer shutes in your direction. Just aim all of their responsibilities at someone else hoping it will all stick. Those people need the *game over* no contact at all approach.
Well done.
That’s the message that I hear coming through too. The fact is, Paul doesn’t have to fix it. Paul knows it. We all know it. Sooner or later, Paul’s dad and his brother will know it too because there isn’t a chance in hell that Paul is going to bail them out! If his dad is that concerned let him bail his deadbeat brother out, or better still offer to be charitable with his grandchildren.
Beatty, I am on the same page as you are. It’s Ping, Pong or Tit for Tat.
I once had a therapist tell me that as soon as I recognize that behavior in someone to do exactly as you just suggested. Go no contact or very limited contact. That’s the same approach as placing a phone down on the counter or speaking to them as little as possible without any confrontations or even suggestions of any kind. A simple, hmmm, or uh, huh or yeah, okay is sufficient! The key is, very short answers will do.
It is an utter waste of time to try and reason with them. Not only is it futile, it is completely counterproductive because you are throwing gas on the already raging fire. Why feed a fire? That’s a very foolish thing to do.
Paul’s blood pressure won’t rise. Plus he is speaking volumes with his silence. It’s brilliant! No confrontation, no argument. If his dad wants to argue with himself, more power to him!
Llama,
It’s totally ridiculous, right? Crazy!
I think deadbeat dads should get to spend their lives in jail and not enjoy any type of life at all. Children pay the price because some jerks decide that they are not going to give their ex's money.
Tell your dad that and offer to help get brother jailed, maybe he will stop bringing him and his consequences up to you.
I probably mentioned on here once about the time brother ex had "problems" and Social Services wanted him (as the father) to take temporatu custody. Long story short, he said no too busy, let her go into a home, Dad supported this, and I DID NOT at all.
So if he thinks I'm going to HELP him be a deadbead Dad even more than he is now. Ummm NO WAY.
A few years ago he had tax issues. He was sort of self-employed like me but basically paid ZERO tax. Spent it all. Don't know the full story but he must have had multiple letters and warnings. Found out later he'd just the letter. Came to a head, 6am house raid, arrested in court. Facing a prison spell for tax evasion.
Of course to Dad this was "oh so unfair". "He works so hard and its always the working man who gets this". "Why does he have such bad luck?"
Didn't go down well when I disagreed that it wasn't bad luck. He had, in fact, been living the life of Riley pouring his tax money down his neck one pint at a time. While the rest of paid the tax they had to.
I know I'm going to hell but I was a bit upset to didn't even go to prison at all. In fact, they even let him off thousands of £s in fines and let him pay it over the space of 5 years....
Still didn't stop Dad - "Its so unfair, hes working hard and now hes got to pay the extra taxes, and those b@tches are screwing him for money now as well".
So I'm used to brother and Dads unique outlook on life....
Morale of the story seems simple to me. Pay your taxes and don't drink it all away, and keep it in your pants or it'll cost you money.
They're both got the attitude- mothers problem she had the kids....
Dad even said once, he thinks men shouldn't have to pay child support if they've moved on an married again. (which my brother did). Reason - because the new wife might not like her new husband having to pay for kids who live with someone else (i.e the mother).
Priceless innit? He also told brother once he should cut contact with is kids (not that he bothered that much) because it might "upset" his new wife... Wow.
Again today, same as usual...
I've worked out long ago that we live in different worlds. Completely different to be honest. They are both never going to change. I really want little to do with them to be honest.
You said it yourself. Your dad and your brother really wind you up so please do what I did with my brothers, don’t be a part of their lives. You don’t owe them anything. Please do not allow anyone cause you to feel any guilt. Not your dad, your brother or anyone else.
There is no need to allow them to upset your life. I can tell that you are at peace by not having much to do with them. I feel the same way about my brothers. I am at peace not having them in my life. I had to cut off my brother who died too. He led an awful life.
Law enforcement knows what to do in these cases. They don’t need any help from others. If they do they will ask. You certainly don’t have to volunteer to be involved in your brother’s mess! Don’t make his problem your problem.
I was told by health professionals to take care of myself and that my brother had enough rope to hang himself. It wasn’t my responsibility to assists them in any way.
I did have a responsibility to myself, my husband and our children. That’s all. My family did not want me involved in his mess. What could we possibly do anyway? Why endanger our own health and happiness due to stress? Not worth it!
Your brothers children do not hold you responsible for their father’s actions. My nieces and nephews don’t hold me responsible in any way for my brothers and they don’t expect me to get involved in my brother’s mess. My stupid brother has kids and now a grandchild that want nothing to do with him.
My brother neglected his kids all of their lives. It’s awful. What does he think? Same as your brother. He didn’t think he should have to pay child support.
Guess what? They garnished my brother’s wages. Every week money was taken out of his paycheck until the kids turned 18. So, do not trouble yourself with your dad or brother. They have enough rope to hang themselves with. Stay out of it. Be at peace. Live your life. I am so happy that you are ignoring your dad and brother! Good for you!
I hope that you had a lovely Easter with your family. Yes, this year is different but you have each other. That is what matters the most.
Take care, Paul.
You, on the other hand, are the strange one. How did you come out so different? Really, how? The same dad, the same upbringing, totally different values. Your wife and kids are lucky you turned out the way you did. ;-D
May I answer that? Not for Paul, but for me. I am very different from my brothers and my mom. Some people learn ‘what to do’ by a parent or siblings. Why? Because they set great examples.
Others learn ‘what NOT to do’ with a parent or sibling because they were awful examples that they NEVER want to emulate them.
Dad lives slightly away from here. 25 miles. Dads OK hes not been out of the house for weeks which is good. Despite his best efforts to get visitors.
Why am I different? Dunno. Same upbringing etc. same schools, same location.
Only difference is I got an education, moved away (not far), and, maybe, backed myself in life and did things a bit differently and worked hard.
Not forgetting where I do come from (S Wales valleys if anyones interested) but its not the most forward thinking place. LOTS of people like Dad and brother there.
Dad had us late in life (he was 34). So I only know Dad in his 40s pretty much. As I've got to that age in the past 10 years or so and seen how I can do things, its become pretty clear how awful Dad was to be honest. How small-minded etc.
To be honest, if we weren't related I'd say we have nothing in common at all. His views in general, make me look at him in horror sometimes. (He manages to be sexist, racist, homophobic the lot!)
Hmmm...probably not. My brother would have too much pride. He cut himself off entirely from his kids and stepchildren. He wouldn’t dare ask them for help.
It takes humility to ask for help. I don’t see humility in Paul’s brother or my brother. They are prideful. I don’t see my brother even trying to use his kids.
Even if my brother wanted to ask his kids for help, he couldn’t. They have nothing to do with him. Absolutely nothing! He lies and tells new people that he meets that that he has never been married or had children. Can you imagine?
I had to tell him that he needed to tell others that he was going to lie because by chance someone I met that had met my brother at an earlier time and this person asked me why my brother had never married or had kids. I said to them, “What are you talking about? My brother has been married and divorced twice and has children and step children.”
It freaked me out. I not only saw my brother as a deadbeat dad but a liar! He completely erased his previous life. That is bizarre to me.
"I am very different from my brothers and my mom. Some people learn ‘what to do’ by a parent or siblings. Why? Because they set great examples.
Others learn ‘what NOT to do’ with a parent or sibling because they were awful examples that they NEVER want to emulate them."
One scenario left out - some people learn what to do by emulating their parents, and the parents are NOT great examples.
I mostly fall under your "what NOT to do" scenario. I did NOT want to be like my parents. I hear/read so many stories where people will say this is how they were raised, so this is how they behave/raise their own families. Not me. I don't even think it is a male/female thing, but more an independent streak (at least for me - I was the one who moved to a different beat.)
Hard to categorize my brothers, but one is more like my mother, I think, and the other like my father (pig-headed, obstinate, opinionated vs more lackadaisical!)
Stay true to yourself Paul (even better, also stay away from them!!!) How's about Some Good News from you, above and beyond the phone on the counter with some ummm hmmmms.... How's the wife's knee and toe? Getting better? Find "chores" (life-skills) for the kids and get it working? Staying sane??? ;-)