Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...
You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill". Like its my fault because I went away!
STILL not taking all his medication that the GP gave him so I offer ZERO sympathy. Basically, wants me to tell him how he can feel better - "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go an see you're GP but I'm not a doctor."
His words - "I desperately need you to visit the weekend." "I've got no food in the house" (Brother lives literally 5 mins drive from him - I live 35-40 mins. Brother is probably laying low). Anyway, he knows my car is in the garage so I'm struggling for transport and he knows my wife works weekends so may need our other car. So I tell him I can't promise. Anyone would have thought I'd told him I'd murdered the family next door.
Apparently, I'm "letting him down" and "need to arrange something", and "wife needs to understand". Of course the standby offer of home delivery groceries is not good enough - he doesn't want to spend the £30 minimum - they have to be hand delivered by me!
I've tried setting boundaries, I've said no can do, I've tried ignoring, I've tried just not doing. Give him his due he's relentless in his quest to get me to do what he wants!
So sorry. That is a lot harder! My dad had a stroke. It’s tough.
That’s good to know that your mother would move to assisted living. Many parents won’t do it making it harder for the family.
The Bossy Pants who goes on hollies with lists for others... get my mail, feed my pets, do my home maintenence... never dream of paying to get mail redirected or pay for kennels themself.
Or the Manipulator who uses charm or guilting to get their way. Living as though they deserve better, that others should pay their bills, provide their childcare.
I wonder if sometimes people get detailed on the train to maturity, stopped at a childhood station where adults do stuff for you. Maybe there is lacking confidence, maybe real learning difficulties, or learned helplessness for attention - who knows.
But the quiet achievers that just get on & do their stuff, hire people for tasks they can't do & change their situation when they need to. That's what I call independent.
I'd label Paul's Dad inter-dependant. Not fully dependant but not quite independant either. My Mum similar. Could do banking, get a haircut but never booked trades people, made big decisions on own. To be fair, she was never tested I suppose... never had to live alone. But she had awareness of it & said if she was ever widowed, she would move into assisted living.
Paul's Dad may never be able to change his needy nature... But attempting to help has found the needines void to be possibly bottomless.
You went through a lot dealing with your ex! It has to be hard to know what to do in those situations.
When children grow up they figure it out for themselves. It is confusing for them when young. That is sad.
My cousin divorced fairy early in her marriage. She had two children with him right after being married. He left when his daughter was six months old and his son was two years old.
The dad’s behavior was awful. He would pick up his son for an outing and leave the daughter behind because he didn’t want to change her diapers!
His daughter would cry and cry. Well, fast forward many years. the daughter entered a Mother’s Day contest about why she had the best mom in the world and won! She knew her mom was always there for her.
All those years growing up she felt cheated because her dad continued to only pick up her brother and not her. It was awful being the abandoned daughter. She ended up forming such a close bond with her mom.
My cousin was perplexed by it all. She didn’t want to deny her son from a relationship with his dad but it hurt her terribly that he basically threw his daughter away. My cousin took the children to therapy to help.
Sad, huh? There are many complicated relationships.
"...but its just the way he thinks hes "punishing" me for being like this."
Let him think that! Doesn't hurt you. Just don't fall for it or buckle...Keep those walls up!!! Applies to everything he thinks, says and does... Just laugh it up and ignore.
and...
"Its just I KNOW that in the past my brother has been completely useless and I've had to carry the can. And now, just because I don't fit in with their values..."
The past is the past. It is what it was. We don't need to forget it, but we also don't need it to consume our lives or even our thoughts. It happened. Learn from it and don't let it happen again! You have your values, they have theirs... not likely they will ever meet in the middle, or even be in viewing distance! Just stick to your own values. Relish your family, and times spent with them, something you never really had, but you can break/have broken that cycle in your own life. This is who you are, that is who they are. Put them out of mind and think of your own family instead. End of story.
Sounds like there was a post about "growing up with needy dad", per Margaret's post. Maybe the one I found and posted? The best line in the latest Margaret post:
"Stuff the lot of them." All in favor say Aye! AYE AYE AYE AYE!!!
"Guess how my brother that literally lived down the street from my mom’s house would get out of shopping? He would buy the wrong items!"
Sometimes this is just plain stupidity or being lazy, BUT I think often it is a ploy! Laundry? How many ways can you screw it up? Some WILL do that and then never be asked to do it again! Woo Hoo, got out of that one!!! Doesn't just apply to men either...
Came back to see what's new and even before I got to this post of yours:
"Disgustedtoo, you have certainly had to learn how to enforce boundaries with those people in your life! Asking your kids to call her Mom! Just wow (like BAD wow)."
I recall another incident - got a call that my son was at the ER getting some stitches. When I called to get the REAL info, I was grilled as to who I was and then who this other person was. It didn't make sense until we returned to have the stitches removed. They always do the info run-down, and when she got to mother, she read off #2's name! AUGH! NO!. I had her change that immediately!
Bad enough to ask my kids to call her mom and introducing them as hers, when she wasn't even married to their father yet, but to list herself on medical documents as mother???
I got the last laugh later. For some reason, ex sometimes thought I was a confidant... telling me what she and her brother were doing during their meltdown, and pointing her fingers at soon-to-be #3... how's it feel there toots?
What would that actually change? Nothing, really. Of course, It’s Paul’s decision if he wishes to look up his mom but it isn’t as simple as you are making it sound.
Even if he learns certain facts to help better understand his father’s behavior, it doesn’t change his circumstances. He would still be dealing with the same behavior from his dad.
Paul may not want to know the horrible details that would only intensify his negative feelings for his dad and make him feel worse.
Paul’s mom may not want to share those details. I would not want to ask a person to open up old wounds. I would feel like I was intruding.
If I were in his mom’s shoes, I don’t know if I would be comfortable telling my son information that would be painful for him to hear.
His mom may not be able to handle her own emotions reliving past hard times. These situations are never easy to deal with. Some doors are better left closed.
I speak from experience. Not with parents but regarding my oldest brother who died in 2013.
My relationship with my brother was complicated.
My brother divulged certain information about himself to me that I will never forget.
Trust me, if I could have the choice of not knowing the disturbing things that my brother told me, I would do it in a heartbeat.
It did not help me at all. It made it far worse. It was information overload.
It was extremely painful information to hear. I have done my best to keep it buried. It can be very disturbing to learn horrible information. It doesn’t help.
I begged my brother to stop telling me the disturbing details and told him to select someone else to speak to, preferably a therapist.
So, sometimes knowing answers doesn’t change anything except hurting us more.
The saying, “Ignorance is bliss” holds true in some instances.
If Paul decides to contact his mom, It doesn’t have to include his dad’s issues. It could simply be a reunion between a mother and son.
"Hi Paul, I think my last post to you probably sounded bizarre, so what was it all about? The ‘traditional’ way for non-custodial fathers to do their access was one weekend in two. Saturday was ‘recreation Daddy’ time, where the kids got spoiled rotten (and impoverished Mum felt jealous). Then on Sunday, recreation Daddy took the kids round to Grandma’s, where she took over his washing and mending, cooked a great Sunday dinner, and Grandma and Grandpa looked after the kids for the rest of the day. You are in a long process of working out just how ‘wonderful’ your father was and how much you are obliged to him, and I thought you might like to look at the comparisons. What care did your father do for his parents? How did they react when he emigrated to Canada? Why did he come back? Perhaps the washing was part of it!"
Actually what you wrote there is about right for what my kids dealt with, minimally at least. The ex had any number of ways to skirt the care-taking when it was his turn to have the kids visit with him!
Please think about how you have been trained into all this from childhood. Stuff the lot of them. I still think that the chances are your mother was bright enough to get out while she could, that he actually pissed her off from having contact with you kids, and that you could learn a lot from getting in touch with her.
You need to untangle the story of your past life, and focus on the future. Yours Margaret
I appreciate your kind wishes. We are hopeful.
Your brother has an attitude that is quite similar to my brothers. It is unsettling. I do understand how annoying it is.
My mom , yeah just like your dad. She makes excuses for them. I know deep down in her heart, she knows their flaws. I bet your dad realizes your brother’s faults but is too proud to admit it.
Its just I KNOW that in the past my brother has been completely useless and I've had to carry the can. And now, just because I don't fit in with their values (my Dad and brother) which are those of put Dad first, kids can deal with it, I'm being punished.
But yeh know what you mean.
Aw hope things are ok with husband. Thinking of you...
I see similarities between my mom and me and you and your dad.
She punished me and I did the most for her. It bothered me a lot. An awful lot. I even discussed it with a therapist. He helped me see things that I wasn’t seeing. I am very grateful to him.
One day my therapist told me, “Don’t allow your mom and brothers to steal your joy!”
I didn’t want to hear what he was saying at first. I sort of thought, well how can I not be sad? He then said to me, “This weekend I insist that you do something fun, just for you!”
It forced me to look past my mom and look at myself and that I deserved to plan things for me.
I am a person who reflects back too. It’s a normal thing. I am asking you to look at the present tense and the future too. It makes a difference. We can’t forget the past. We can honor our feelings but we have to see ahead of us too. It is all about achieving a balance in life.
Your kids are growing up fast. Your wife loves you. They need you. I regret that I put so much effort into my mom that I missed out on things with my family.
You are fortunate. Your dad never lived with you. I had mom 24/7. There was never a break.
My daughters are grown and out of the house. Cherish your children now. Before long, they will be gone too.
Your dad may be punishing you and you don’t deserve it. I didn’t deserve it either. But I stopped punishing myself. Don’t punish yourself. Enjoy your life.
I hope what I said made sense to you. I have been dealing with a bit of insomnia since my husband has been diagnosed with cancer. I was in shock when we first learned of his cancer. Then I cried. Now I can’t sleep. Oh well...
As soon as his treatments are behind him. I feel like I will be able to rest again. His next appointment is on the 30th.
Then he can start radiation. We are hoping for the best because his cancer has not spread, which is very good.
In the past, he'd moan he hadnt heard from brother for a month. I sorted everything. I sorted his mortgage, his stairlift, his special bathroom. All of it.
Now, because of Covid and because I've got family commitments I can't visit. And I'm being punished for it.
Yeh I don't need the money, and brother can crack on - but its just the way he thinks hes "punishing" me for being like this.
To be honest, its probably the final nail in our relationship....
Looking back he made some bad choices because of how he is. We went to live on a council (social housing) estate. Really bad one. Because "he didnt want to get into debt with a mortgage". His friend worked for the council and "pulled a few strings to beat the wait list".
He never learned to drive. We were a few miles from family. We used to walk to grans every sunday (About 2 miles) with him carrying a large suitcase of dirty clothes. He never bought a washing machine.
Holidays - we never went far. My uncle lives in England near the beach so we'd go there. He also had a friend who'd retired to cornwall and we'd stay there.
Common thread through all of this is Dad will not think for himself or do anything. He always relies on someone else to do it for him.
And I thought my family’s life read like the craziest soap opera. Yours does too!
Doesn’t surprise me that your dad pays your brother. Not at all.
My mom gave my brothers tons of money throughout their lives because they would poor mouth and act like they were devastated.
Mom never stopped giving them money. Bank of Mom! Daddy never did that. My dad told them to manage their money more wisely.
I never asked mom for a penny when I moved away from home. I focused on myself and my future. I learned how to be independent from my dad and mom’s parents. I loved my grandparents!
It was hard at times. I had to work two jobs sometimes to be able to pay my bills and have food to eat but I was so happy to be independent that I didn’t care that she gave them money.
She continues to give them money. She knew that I was independent and worked hard. She knew that my brothers were lazy and didn’t manage their money well. She rewarded them instead of teaching them to work hard. That is bizarre to me.
I agree with everyone else. Expose what you know about the situation. Tell dear old dad that he can continue to pay your brother to shop for him.
When mom stopped driving due to her Parkinson’s disease and daddy dying, she needed help. Guess how my brother that literally lived down the street from my mom’s house would get out of shopping? He would buy the wrong items!
My mom is a perfectionist. She wrote exactly what she needed on her shopping list.
My brother would make his own substitutions if the store was out of something and it drove her crazy and she would call me to drive across town to shop once a week for her.
It was crazy! After she moved in with us it was even crazier! Thank God now she is living with another brother! I had three brothers and a couple of cousins that lived with us because my aunt and uncle died.
I did more than my fair share for mom. You have too! Let it go! Your brother can shop!
I get what you are saying about him getting paid and you got nothing. Your dad feels sorry for him.
It’s kind of sickening but you have to force yourself not to dwell on it.
I had to push myself to work past it. I am happier now. The memories stink but I am not living in h*ll anymore.
My mom never felt sorry for me. As far as I am concerned she did me a favor by not babying me. I went to school. I worked hard. I was the opposite of my brothers.
My mom is not my problem anymore! When I was in the middle of it all I couldn’t see clearly. I was blinded by mom’s needs.
Now that I haven’t done it for awhile, I see how I was ridiculously in over my head! My head is well above water now, no longer drowning in her sea of crap anymore!
I don’t wish mom any harm. I don’t have vengeance in my heart. I feel good that she is being taken care of through the hospice program. I just never want to be a part of her caregiving again. Over 20 years was enough! 15 of those years in my home!
I have my life back. Is it perfect? No. My husband has cancer now but now I can devote all of my hours to him. I see my older daughter more now too. She has health issues too. The younger one moved to Denver after graduation at her university. She’s happy so I am happy. I miss her but I would never try to control her life.
Enjoy your family! Be happy! You have earned it!
The older I get, the more I realise I have had to learn boundaries & enact them myself. I was taught always to put others first. I don't want to diss that concept yet feel this emplied my rights were less than others, setting me up to be taken advantage of by the unthinking or selfish.
You don't need to do his groceries again!
He is doing just fine himself, using brother or maybe even deliveries. Whatever he is doing - he has not starved.
So take your 'list to do' for Dad, take a big black pen & cross groceries OFF. Everytime something gets crossed off, especially due to Covid restrictions, thank it & reassess if that task will ever go back on the list.
I really love Barb's suggestion to be a *visitor* once restrictions lift.
If brother wishes to be an *employee* let him earn his wages 😁
"Yes he did re-marry when I was 10."
and
"Dad used her as free childcare and he went to work. Old fashioned way."
THIS explains a bit more. One might assume he provided the care for you and your brother when he split with your mom, without knowing this. I think there was mention of getting help from other family, but probably only between wives/slaves! Obviously not. Old fashioned? Not totally... In a way, yes, but it still goes on. My ex had the kids every other weekend, 2 hours mid-week, half the holidays we set up and a 2 week vacation. More often than not they were with his mother or his GF, soon to be #2 (there was a 3rd!) He even had the gall to send #2 to pick them up when they were not yet married (no notification of engagement either.) She worked at the day care I had been using and had some kind of obsession with my daughter. No way was I letting them go with her when there was no notice that she would do the pickup. They could have broken up and she'd be kidnapping or something! Also before marrying, she had them at some event and introduced them to someone else as HER children! When they did marry and had another kid, she wanted my kids to call her mom, so as to not confuse her kid - seriously? So, anyone who visits has to call you mom too, so the kid isn't confused? Nope. Call her anything else, but not mom.
Anyway, it becomes clearer now that he wasn't the doting father he perhaps thinks he was. Absentee father is more like it. If that's the case, he is getting MUCH better treatment from you than he really deserves!!!
Add to that, this:
"...criticised that I'd taken my daughter horse riding "you do too much with her"."
Brings even more light to the situation in the past - he likely didn't take the time to do anything with either of you back then! I've heard the "you do too much" from my mother in the past, but it was stuff in general, not what I did with my kids. Yet, yet, yet he expects YOU to do everything with and for HIM! Payback can be a B!
I wouldn't mention the fact that he's paying bro. Let him. Bro wants to do stuff and get (over)paid, have at it! My mother occasionally would want me to take money for gas, and insisted on paying me for doing her taxes, but that's about it. She did give each of us money, just under the limit for "gifting", so we could use it then rather than after she's gone. OB was all excited when she talked of doing it again, but I put the kibosh on that, because she was exhibiting early dementia by then. No gifts, she will need the money for her care and if we ever exhaust that, it would be an issue for Medicaid. Given his lame late response to telling him she had a stroke recently, I'd would bet a few dollars that he immediately checked the trust balance to see what he might be getting!!! She's holding her own, despite everything, and could last years longer!
Yeah, let bro keep doing the deeds and let him get paid. The money isn't worth it!!! Slap in the face, but no way would I let him buy his way to you.
Let's him know you know. Turn it to your favor. Because it is.
He was off full tilt again this weekend with his moaning...
Asked me what I had been doing this weekend - then criticised that I'd taken my daughter horse riding "you do too much with her". Jeez mind your own business its not your decision. Of course, well aware that the more I do with my kids the less time it leaves for him.
Still in lockdown. NOT missing going to see him. I've offered again to have groceries delivered - NOPE. Amazing how he can managed for 5-6 weeks now with my brother getting his shopping yet when im able to go there its "urgent" that I visit to do some shopping.
Also, not sure if I mentioned, he gets me to do his banking stuff. I can see hes been giving my brother £200 a week. Wow. All the things I've done for him. In the past, you wouldnt hear from brother for a month - now hes golden child and I'm not (he lives in same county so can visit - I live in different county and cant).
Really annoyed at that..... He'll get even less visits from me now.
I love Barb’s line too. So simple! So true! So brilliant!
Interesting...I am not surprised about your dad’s second divorce.
I wouldn’t have liked your stepmom either. She was as self centered as your dad has been.
Knowing about his second marriage reinforces everything you have stated about your dad, how he feels the world revolves around him.
Paul, I have no doubt that you truly know your father’s heart and all of his intentions.
Every now & then I practice that line & varients (No, that won't work for my family. No, that's not possible. No, I won't be doing that). Just so it will roll off my tongue when needed 😁.
I also rehearse stalling (I'll have to call you back. I need to think about that. I'd like to speak to my other half about that first).
When faced with assertive professionals many people agree due to the pressure (& FOG). I intend never to let myself be in that spot (again).
He even told a surgeon once when they asked if he had anyone at home. Oh I'll go and stay with my son for a month or two. No you wont. Assumed didnt ask.
Yes he did re-marry when I was 10. I hated her. Awful woman with her own kids. We moved into her house and, of course, she favoured her kids. Religious fanatic too.
Dad used her as free childcare and he went to work. Old fashioned way.
I couldnt stand her. I was away in college anyway but they got divorced when I was 22.
Living in a hotel suite and taking a taxi sounds like a good plan to me when I get older! LOL
I get sick of driving. I would love to downsize to a hotel suite with housekeeping and room service!
Room service is so different since Covid. We left town for the last hurricane and ordered breakfast to the room.
Room service used to be served on a tray in the room. Now it is dropped off in a brown paper bag!
It’s a different world today, right?
But someone did. They are very tired of his sacking the cleaners/carers, concerned & fed up. Have filed the guardianship papers while they toss up whether to try another round of home or not.
I'm watching from the sidelines as it may be a glimpse into the future...