Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...
You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill". Like its my fault because I went away!
STILL not taking all his medication that the GP gave him so I offer ZERO sympathy. Basically, wants me to tell him how he can feel better - "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go an see you're GP but I'm not a doctor."
His words - "I desperately need you to visit the weekend." "I've got no food in the house" (Brother lives literally 5 mins drive from him - I live 35-40 mins. Brother is probably laying low). Anyway, he knows my car is in the garage so I'm struggling for transport and he knows my wife works weekends so may need our other car. So I tell him I can't promise. Anyone would have thought I'd told him I'd murdered the family next door.
Apparently, I'm "letting him down" and "need to arrange something", and "wife needs to understand". Of course the standby offer of home delivery groceries is not good enough - he doesn't want to spend the £30 minimum - they have to be hand delivered by me!
I've tried setting boundaries, I've said no can do, I've tried ignoring, I've tried just not doing. Give him his due he's relentless in his quest to get me to do what he wants!
"If an older relative had broken my spouse's arm in any other manner than by purest, undisputed, innocent accident - and I don't think having to come home from work early would be the grievance I'd mention first - I'd have done something a bit more radical about it than hold it against him years later. "
It was clear to me that it was Paul's SON who had done this or maybe I am misunderstanding something.
Paul, what happened when you read CM's post? Face start to flush? Hands or stomach clench? Jaw tighten. Uncomfortable. Feel like throwing something or running out the door?
That's anger. Often people were told to hold it in, ignore it, mustn't ever lose our temper. It can be expressed, but in a SAFE way is better - go for a brisk walk, punch a pillow etc. Or chat here.
Use that anger & redirect that energy where it needs to go. To stand up for yourself.
Ask yourself honestly if you want to be Dad's carer? If not, tell him. Use
those short sentences Barb suggested. Then you can start to find peace.
Lovely sunny weekend morning here. I used to look forward to a weekend off but the DREAD of the phone ringing... Another fall. Another chore. Often no aide so full shower assist too. I had been quietly saying 'get a better system, get a key for EMS to get in, get a backup aide service'. No-one listening. Then I became stressed even if the phone didn't ring.
I felt that pressure you are under. Felt hounded. I get it. I knew this was not good for my health.
So I eventually sought therapy. I explained my goal : to float along. To find peace. I knew I could not make them understand or change them (although I probably still hoped that then..)
Need has peace now after her long years of this. So have many others. I too have peace. I am sitting in the garden now intead of rushing over.
What helped was that DREAD. I hated feeling that way. Why did I feel that way? What is dread anyway?
FEAR + ANGER.
FEAR this will never end. That care for another will eat up my entire life, was already destroying my weekends, taking up more & more non-work hours, with less time for my own family, friends, sports & hobbies.
ANGER to be cont..
Bro makes this sound like dad needs "attention" (coddling) every day of the month. Before Bro was "involved", originally, you were maybe doing once/week? Suddenly he can't be "unattended" for 2 days? If he can bathe, cook, get around his place, has a working phone and scooter and food, then he doesn't NEED someone there every day. If he does (not likely), this is beyond capability for normal working people to provide care, especially when living alone. Even if he needs to restock groceries, I go at LEAST 2 weeks between trips, sometimes longer. He doesn't "do" laundry, so he can hire laundry service or figure it out. Even that shouldn't be a big deal. How many dirty items can an old man living in his place and not going out have?
Why bother getting angry or lashing out? It won't accomplish anything with either one of them. It's why after pouring my angst out into emails for each brother the emails were never sent. It wouldn't change them. It wouldn't make things better. It potentially could have made things worse. So I said what I needed to say in the emails, got it out of my system and then left them in my draft folder. That was maybe 4-5 years ago. I had no contact with OB for over 2.5 years and only then reached out to let him know mom had a stroke. I felt it was the right thing to do. Big difference it made, but at least I did the right thing. Since mom passed, I had to contact both regarding distribution of the trust funds. For the most part, it was only a few emails and that's pretty much done. I still have tasks remaining to finalize everything, with no help or input from them. When most is finished, I plan one more email to ask about payment for all I've done for the last 6 years. Will they agree? Who knows. I can only ask. Once everything is done, I may or may not send some reckoning, but whether I do or not, I am DONE with the two of them.
My mother wasn't demanding my time like your dad, but it was me that was "on call" when she did need something, not the other two. So, I was like you were before you started pushing back and then bro got sucked in. Because she wasn't like your dad, it was better for me to continue, as hard as it was sometimes, because otherwise nothing would get done.
Ignore bro. IGNORE him and forget what he's said. He's just blowing out his behind because he feels used now. How many years were you on the beck and call routine and he did nothing? Like NHWM's brother, skate and criticize for years, but suddenly when they have to take over it becomes a national emergency!
You don't answer to him. You don't owe him anything, not even excuses. You've blocked him. Done.
As for dad, maybe it is time to just say simply "I can't do this anymore."
NO excuses. NO reasoning. NOTHING. Just "I can't do this anymore." Don't listen to any whining from him. He starts, just CALMLY say I'm hanging up now and CALMLY hang up the phone. Then block his calls.
If they can't call you or contact you via some social media, what choices are left for them? Not your problem.
"I think it was Paul's SON who broke his mom's arm, not Paul's dad."
Not really a "think" - both comments were under "excuse #2 and it's response, which was about paul's son. RIF.
Obviously, you know your dad and brother better than all of us.
Please don’t think that I am defending or excusing your dad. I am only considering that there may be reasons for his behavior.
This is just a thought. For all I know, I could be dead wrong. Please correct me if I am off base.
Have you ever suspected that your father may be fearful of being alone?
Angry or frustrated due to his own past hurts? How did his dad treat him?
Sometimes people put on a brave face in front of others but inside they are fearful of being alone. Who could blame him if he did have fear? He’s an elderly man.
I am not in denial of how obnoxious his behavior is.
I know that he and your brother have a vastly different perspective on life than you.
Paul, your dad is who he is. He has his own history. You are who you are. It’s because of your history that you are you.
Everyone processes their own experiences differently.
It would help you enormously to discuss these things with someone that is objective.
Your dad’s frustration comes out as being angry at others. Again I do not deny that he is annoying and manipulative,
Perhaps dad is feeling some insecurity underneath it all.
If he is fearful, then being in a care home is the best possible solution because all of his needs are cared for. You nor your brother are burdened. Problem solved!
Look, I was in your shoes. I did not handle my stress or frustration well.
In fact, I created a lot of my own problems by not considering the best solution for all involved.
Once I was open to seeing that the world would not end if I tried what others suggested, I found peace.
Was everything perfect? Absolutely not but I am not a perfectionist.
I can live with the fact that I am not a miracle worker.
As long as the major issues are being taken care of, I am fine.
If others see this change in YOU, then they will start to take you seriously and know that they can no longer jerk your chain.
I am only trying to help. I feel your pain. I had a similar experience, but worse. Mom was living in my home. Be grateful that you have never had that experience!
Take care, Paul.
It’s a tough situation, for sure.
If I had stood up to my mom and made better choices, I could have saved myself and my family a lot of pain and agony.
Your dad and brother want control! Don’t give it to them.
I made the mistake of allowing others to control my life. I paid for that choice. So did you.
I was a wreck and my husband did not deserve the frustration that he felt.
I had become overly sensitive with my family and friends.
I needed an outside opinion for helpful guidance.
Therapy and wise forum members helped me see the light.
It is not your responsibility to fulfill all of your father’s needs.
Make a clean break because if you give them an inch, they will take a mile! Cut them off all together!
After all, you have gone above and beyond for your father, while your brother has lived his life exactly as he wanted to.
Your brother will have no problem cutting your dad off. Nor should you.
Your brother will put pressure on you so he can live his life according to his needs. You are also free to live your life the way you choose.
Sometimes conflicts are never resolved in families and we just have to let go and accept the way it is.
I know that you say your dad is capable of caring for himself but at his age it would be a relief for him to be in a care home so everything would be taken care of for him.
That’s what I would want for myself, rather than to have to rely on others.
Best wishes, Paul.
Off topic, Polar, so I'll send a reply to your profile.
CM, I remember at the beginning of Paul's thread, you mentioned that your ex was somewhat in similar situation with respect to his parent(s) and you were not happy with the way he acted/reacted.
You sound so angry and almost hateful towards Paul. It's in the back of my mind when you make critical remarks to Paul whether you were talking to Paul or taking the anger you have for your ex out on Paul. Regardless you're right or not, your comments could be said in a better tone.
I am in the popular "no is a complete sentence" school of thought on this forum. For me, the choice of whether you spend time with and how much on your father is yours to make. You do have many better things to do with your time. You have a wife and children, you have a full time job, you're a busy man. There are many good reasons why you wouldn't be doing the 100 mile round trip to deliver a pint of milk.
But no is never a complete sentence for you. The no has to come with chapter and verse from the book of grudge, and a total rejection of any possible claim that your chronically sick, elderly father might have to your attention. Which, however, you never communicate honestly to him, with the result that the silly old so-and-so goes on believing that it's not unreasonable to ask, that it's even natural to expect, which you then object to. At length.
I hesitate to take the new bait, but in for a penny: if an older relative had broken my spouse's arm in any other manner than by purest, undisputed, innocent accident - and I don't think having to come home from work early would be the grievance I'd mention first - I'd have done something a bit more radical about it than hold it against him years later. And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have needed to wait for a global pandemic to create a safe boundary between him and my own family.
You can't possibly have missed the point that so many people have explained to you in so many different and kindly ways, so I'll assume you are evading it. YOU decide what you do. You decide what is reasonable, and necessary, and appropriate. Decide for yourself that you will do x, y, and z and that you will not do a, b and c; and I for one will be right behind you if you decide that what you will do is O or SFA for that matter. What I can't take is the ritual burning in effigy of the man - he's not ill he's being manipulative, he doesn't need anything, he shouldn't be stressing you out by asking you to visit him, he beat up your wife, he's cruel to your children, he treats you like crap, he favours your wastrel brother, he's an accessory to fraud...
He's a lonely old man who wants more of his son's attention than his son has available and is willing to give him. It's not a crime.
Paul, you EXPECT your dad to "understand".
You expect him and your brother to stop "chasing" you and demanding your attendence, presence and support.
You don't seem to be able to say "no, I don't want to do that" to either of them. Or "F%ck off" to your brother.
Sometimes we need to do therapy to learn to do these things. I did.
Something you might consider. Because without it, I really feel you are headed for all sorts of stress-related physical issues.
I've always considered her positions and insights very intuitive, and find it hard to be sympathetic to Paul's harsh criticism of her. Sometimes it's appropriate to step back and reassess one's own beliefs and perspectives, and allow the advice of someone very experienced, and compassionate, to raise issues that often aren't seen by us, or by a specific caregiver.
You know full well what I mean by saying "ill". As in not able to look after himself to perform basic needs such as washing, cooking, dressing etc.
#1 Yes it is. The older person can form a 1 person support bubble in wales. He had that with my brother. Also, you do know there is STILL a 5 mile rule in place in wales? Agree if I had been his ONLY son it'd have been different.
Oh BTW - FYI I checked ALL of this with my local AM. So I think I'm right, don't you?
#2 With respect, you have no idea at all either it seems. In the past, I've had to come home from work early because hes broken my wifes arm and put her in hospital. Oh BTW - did I tell you my wife STILL has her debilitating illness? Yet im supposed to run when dad decides he needs a pint of milk?
#3 Just Wow....
To be honest, I find you're comment "can't be arsed" to be really insulting. Hes treated me like complete crap for a long time. Yes I am glad COVID has prevented me from visiting. Otherwise, I'd have a nervous breakdown by now or been divorced so sorry about that.
Pretending and feeling sorry for myself........ Wow.
I can't actually believe you've had the temerity to actually post some of this stuff. I'll stop now before I forget my manners.....
Agreed its not good for my health.
The only things you have control over are your thinking and your behavior.
As in "no, I can't possibly do that".
Or "That doesn't work for me, dad. I don't want to be your carer. You'll need to make other arrangements".
All this seething is not good for your health, Paul.
Harsh but helpful.
Clear honest communication is not something that all of us have been brought up with - but it's worth learning.
When I explained I could no longer be a main support it was a win/win. I got my life back & my relo finally accepted more non-family help.
"The No BS Guide to Protecting Your Emotional Space"
Might be a bit, you know, therapist-y for you... but I liked these ones;
* I have a right to say no without feeling guilty.
* I have a right to make my needs as important as others.
* I have a right not to meet others’ unreasonable expectations of me.
Actually the last one is my fav.
You are not going to be there on that weekend for several good reasons. These include:
that you're not under orders
that there is no particular reason why you should provide support that could come from any number of sources
and, most of all, that you don't want to.
But you never say these things to yourself or them, do you. You do indeed bulls***your Dad. E.g.
Excuse #1 - It's illegal. No it isn't, and hasn't been. If you'd wanted to, you would have been perfectly able to drive to your father's house, leave groceries by the door, and have a distanced conversation with him: all allowed for within support bubble regulations as well you know.
Excuse #2 - Your son has Asperger's Syndrome (but thank goodness is doing better now). I'm very glad that your teenage son is doing better. Teenagers of any description can be extremely time-consuming, I agree. But that, again, is not remotely the reason why you have not visited your father; and in any case expecting people who don't have the education to understand (and socially are not likely even to believe in) autistic spectrum disorders is ludicrous. They look on it as a feeble excuse for your not bothering with your Dad. And, actually, they're not wrong - your son *does* need more of your time and care than many of his peers need from their parents, but that's not why you haven't been to see your father.
Excuse #3 - various shapes, sizes and colours of blaming other people, especially your father, but also your brother, his associates, your wife, your children, your wife's mother and whoever else's fault it is who has escaped my memory.
The truth is that you haven't been to see your father because you can't be arsed, you don't like him, Covid has given you a handy loophole to escape guilt by feeling not only justified but even positively virtuous, and you're constantly afraid that if you give an inch he'll take a mile.
Your father is an older man who lives alone and has a variety of health and social care needs. If you don't want to be involved in his support I will be FIRST in line to endorse your choice, but please! - stop pretending and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
I think you should carry out what you have said in your latest post.
Your dad will figure it out. Honestly, they both owe you an apology.
I was extremely close to my brother’s children while they were growing up. I still maintain a relationship with them. The oldest one is my godchild.
My brother never paid much attention to my children when they were growing up. It’s sad that families have these issues.
Fortunately, my mom adores my children and they love her.
Thing is with Dad, he dresses, washes, uses the toilet, cooks, etc all for himself. He can get around his flat. He is NOT ill AT ALL. He is just pre-occupied that SOMEONE needs to look after him.
A home would be ideal as many have said! People get paid to listen to him moaning.....
I agree - they are both bullies. They have this expectation that I HAVE to do what they say. They have no care whatsoever that I have my own stuff going on in my life... For instance, remember my son has Aspergers. Hes 17 now doing better but we had TONS of trouble a while back but Dad seems not to care about that.
On the plus side, its given me courage to ring Dad later and put him on the spot. Im finally going to tell him hes NOT ILL and hes got to stop his bullying. Im going to tell him if it doesnt stop then I'll step out of the whole thing and the pair of them can carry on as they are.
Dad is a different type of bully. The fragile narcissistic attention seeking manipulator. 'You'd do it if you loved me...' Nonsense. A blackmail attempt.
If you were all 4 yr olds in a playground you'd say to Brother "you're not the boss of me!" & to Dad, maybe "I'm not going to play with you!"
Being a nerdy kid, I would have gone to hang out in the library instead. I like books.
Anyhoo... I seriously think it may be time to leave them to their childish games.
Think of it this way. There was always this pushing from either of them. One day the pushing was going to go too far. Pushing back will take great mental effort & stress.
So step to the side. Let them push into the free air & land on the ground. Let them learn to stand on their own feet. It's called *natural consequences*.
I am struggling to find any reply back to either that may be effective. They will believe what they want anyway. So silence. Silence is golden.
All families struggle in one form or another.
Sometimes the very best thing that you can do when you are overwhelmed is to give each other space.
Step away entirely with your brother for now.
Do not allow your dad to even discuss your brother with you.
Parents don’t need to be a mediator between siblings.
If you work things out with your brother, that should be between he and you. Sometimes we can’t work things out for various reasons but we can still move forward in our lives.
Your dad’s interference is complicating the situation for all of you. My mom was an instigator too.
You have a right to feel as you do. Plus, your dad has to respect your privacy and boundaries.
Your brother should not be discussing you with your father. Nor should you discuss him with your dad.
If your dad brings up your brother, tell him that you are not interested in hearing it. I told my mom that I would not discuss my brothers with her.
I let go of everything because it became way too much for me. Mom lived with us for 15 years.
My brother took over mom’s care. Naturally, it became too much for him and his wife.
Mom is now in a hospice facility with advanced Parkinson’s disease. It is the best place for her.
I only called mom once a week, sometimes every other week.
I had done my share and did not wish to put myself in the middle of it.
I let them find out for themselves how tough caregiving is because all my brother did was criticize me.
The way I found out about mom being placed was because I called mom’s phone.
My brother answered the phone and told me of mom’s placement.
Then I got the shock of my life. He apologized to me!
He said that he never realized how tough I had it until he did the caregiving.
Mom is 95. I don’t know how much time she has left.
My only wish is for her to be comfortable during her final stages of life. She is completely bed bound now.
Hopefully, the ugly past is behind all of us and we can continue to be civil with one another for all of our sakes.
I wish your family peace, Paul. I have had much joy in my life and my share of heartache. I know that you have had that too.
You’re going to work through this if you choose the right path and if you take a detour then get back on track as soon as you can.
Take care, Paul. We care.
Your brother sent the message,
but you had an option to read or not read. You chose to read.
Now that you read it,
you have an option to forget it, or ignore it, or let it swim around in your head.
If it swims around in your head unwantedly,
you can either pay attention to it, or replace it with some other thoughts,
such as your work, your kids, your wife, or better yet your upcoming vacation plans,
Once the message disappears from your head, and you take NO action to respond to it, your brother will eventually know he's been ignored. Let him squirm in that thought.
You live in a country with a robust (at least compared to the US) universal healthcare system. Dad pays rates (or did when he worked) for that and should take advantage of it.
Dad and brother are operating under the assumptioms of Old English Law, right? Times have chnaged.
Point that out, perhaps.
I am sorry that you are dealing with your dad and brother’s bullying.
You deserve to be treated with respect and kindness.
I am glad that you blocked your brother. Let him think it over for a while.
Take it one step further and tell your dad that he should no longer depend on you. Dump it all back in his lap. Allow him to figure it out. You don’t have to ‘do your bit.’
You know what most likely has happened, don’t you?
All of the things that you have done for years is now being done by your brother and his wife.
So, they see what it feels like now and don’t like it anymore than you did.
It becomes too much for family members to do alone.
Your dad is going to have to make arrangements for his own needs. Or you can offer to help him make arrangements for care.
It’s too bad that he won’t consent to looking at care homes. Obviously, he isn’t independent and needs assistance with his needs.
If he were in a care home he would be looked after by a staff.
Some people never wish to be in a care home. It’s sad because they truly need help.
Blocking your brother says it all. Why bother having a conversation at this point with him?
He would only turn it into an argument. I don’t think that you will be able to reason with him.
He expects you to be sensitive to his needs but he has never been sensitive to your needs.
If and when your brother shows you some consideration, then maybe you can have an intelligent conversation.
"OK Paul. You'll have to sort dad out on the 27th /28th this month. Got lots of things to do. You can travel, so stop bullsh*ting dad, he knows you full of sh*t, same as mum, anyway about time you pull your fingers out. Alys dad has dementia, her mum is in hospital, so like I said the 27th and 28th this month. Any bulls***f you that's fine. Dad is the only one who's missing out. I'm busy on the 27th, 28th
That's it pal. About time you did a bit. Every other weekend is fine, just stop bullsh*ting dad."