Always is when I go away for the weekend with my family...
You can guarantee when I come back he's "been ill". EVERY TIME. So I phoned him - first sentence "I've been ill". Like its my fault because I went away!
STILL not taking all his medication that the GP gave him so I offer ZERO sympathy. Basically, wants me to tell him how he can feel better - "Take the meds the GP has given you Dad, if that fails then go an see you're GP but I'm not a doctor."
His words - "I desperately need you to visit the weekend." "I've got no food in the house" (Brother lives literally 5 mins drive from him - I live 35-40 mins. Brother is probably laying low). Anyway, he knows my car is in the garage so I'm struggling for transport and he knows my wife works weekends so may need our other car. So I tell him I can't promise. Anyone would have thought I'd told him I'd murdered the family next door.
Apparently, I'm "letting him down" and "need to arrange something", and "wife needs to understand". Of course the standby offer of home delivery groceries is not good enough - he doesn't want to spend the £30 minimum - they have to be hand delivered by me!
I've tried setting boundaries, I've said no can do, I've tried ignoring, I've tried just not doing. Give him his due he's relentless in his quest to get me to do what he wants!
ANYONE who tries that with me gets the old chestnut "Who died and made you the boss" (or god as needed)...
Beatty says:
"Or maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, I'm not sure, I'll see.
Then don't go. Not for a month. Then 2 months."
The old yeah yeah, then blow them off... sure, it'll probably result in phone call and whining complaining chastising because you didn't go, but just let it happen. Just yes him to death, don't go but also don't anticipate the negative that will come. When it does, yeah yeah, whatever, and don't go... yeah yeah and then put it out of mind (or at least WAYYY back on some unused burner in your head!)
As for MIL, rather than trade one negative for another (leave to go to dad to avoid MIL), go for a walk, take the kids to the park (or wherever one is allowed to go.) Do something positive for YOU and the kids rather than doing the negative thing to avoid another negative!
As for cars... I keep hoping they would come out with a VERY basic 4wd (need that for winter here - *could* live without, but if I need to get out and it is snowing, most cars NFG for that here...) Basic = runs, has 4WD option, manual transmission, no AC, good heater, wipers, lights, radio, no extra bells and whistles, and not MANY thousands of $! My latest is a Jeep Wrangler (had good luck with last one, 17+ yo bought to have a plow for a LONG driveway!) It is about 1.5 yo, has already THREE recalls, two of which are safety related and cost a ridiculous amount of money! First house (yes, bad comparison, as housing costs have outstripped many other costs) was 39.9 k, Jeep was 30k!!! Would be fine if I could also live in it, but not likely! Perhaps another 10k to set up a small trailer for it... ;-)
(other minor issues with a BRAND NEW Jeep = compass couldn't find NSEW if my life depended on it and the clock can't maintain the time - last check it was already 8m behind, even though I reset it a few weeks ago. Not critical, but seriously, they can't make a compass and clock work in a vehicle? One MAJOR issue is the radio did NOT work when I picked it up. I don't have alternate audio anything, and long trips in silence aren't fun! I was told it is bad reception where the dealer is - I had driven through there multiple times when visiting my uncle and my other car radios worked fine! Brought it in for the first recall and had them fix the radio and compass - radio had wire unplugged somewhere and compass needed to be calibrated. Seriously? That's like buying a new house and having the sink disconnected or some other issue that shouldn't happen!)
Then don't go. Not for a month. Then 2 months.
Had that convo with my Mum. Penny dropped & she took it on the chin like a grown-up. Course she forgets & just wants what she wants. I then say "no bossing!"
If that's just too wusey for the man..."You've become a P.I.T.A. cut it out. I'll visit when I can. End of".
Remember I went down on a week night last week. I knew this would happen - he now expects me there EVERY week.
Now I dont mind at the moment. WFH till 5pm so its not that big a deal and theres no traffic on the roads. Of course, MIL is now there 3 days a week (and shes getting on my nerves!) so one evening away is not so bad.
Wasnt too impressed when he told me on the phone "You HAVE to visit me on wednesday". Ummm what? I dont have to....
I used to know a minister who was very careful with his money, and as a result was able to afford some nice things. One time he told me that when people see what he has, he feels as if he has to give them an explanation such as "oh, this was on sale" or "the former owner was in a special hurry to sell it", or "it was a gift", etc--and wondered if his line of work obligated him to justify everything. His father, who apparently wasn't the best at parenting and realized it, gave him a Porsche (not new) as sort of a "make-up" gift. He wondered if he should sell it and give the money to the church--but members of his congregation told him "your father wanted you to have this, so drive it and enjoy it!" which I think was an appropriate response. (I have to admit it bothered me a bit when I saw it sitting in the driveway with a cover on it--I hope he DID get to enjoy it!)
However, there WAS a minister in town who was like some one reads about in the news--he became "filthy rich" by getting people to send him money, and a coworker said he sometimes saw him sitting in his car outside the post office, smiling as he opened the envelopes full of checks!
Fancy sport cars seen in rough/social housing areas may get "business is good for that drug dealer" comment (quietly said of course).
I dunno how true this is for the USA lol but its true in the UK.
Yeh I probably had the worse start to life you could have. Early 70s this was - no mother, single parent, awful council estate, really poor school, deprived area. So yes I aint lucky.
If I told Dad he'd think I'm showing off. Or that I'm lucky to have that which I dont get.
I remember once him saying "So you get paid to sit in the house, doing nothing, and you get paid just in case someone calls you?"
"Yes Dad that's how oncall/standby works"
"Wow you're SO LUCKY".
A few weeks later
"What? They expected you to go to work at 2am in the morning?"
"Yes Dad, it was urgent, I was there for 18 hours too".
"NO WAY!!!! There is no way I'd let my employer do that to me, I'd refuse to go in".
My point was proven there that we live in different worlds.
I'm proud of my husband for being able to earn enough to support our family of 4 and a fur baby, several feral cats, and a few hens. I used to work full time and made a decent salary, then we had kids, so we decided that it was best that I cut back on the hours. So, now I'm working part time from home. The nice thing is that my work (Accounting/Bookkeeping) allows me to work any time of the day. We have a garden that we grow fruits and vegetables. We also have eggs from our chickens. I told my husband that we're living off the land. He said: "Yeah, my name is Land." Haha...
As for your dad, I understand why you don't want to tell him how much you earn, he might just pass out.
The point is to drive YOUR cost for doing his "bidding" to a ridiculous amount that he won't want to pay. Clearly 54L is more than double what he was "offering." Hopefully his penchant for squeezing nickels (or pence) would make him gag at this amount!
Just now thought, gee, VP's name is Pence... does that make him the next to lowest coin in the drawer??? Or if ha'penny in considered, third from the bottom? ;-)
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it"
While I do understand some of the "economics" behind it, I still find it odd that those who do the hardest, and sometimes dangerous and/or drudge work are among the lowest paid... Even worse, those who "have" look down on them as if they are less than human, regardless of skin color! I value everyone, and until they prove otherwise by their actions, everyone has value. It is disheartening to see those who DO judge others, more often than not without justification... Rude awakening might be coming for many of them (several have been harangued and lost their "nice" jobs!)
I actually saw some of this in action when I took on a second job at HD (big box hardware/lumber store for those not in the US.) Several woman talked "down" at me, even though I was doing my best to meet their "needs." One of those even went to management to complain about me! Another woman was trying to be nice when she commented on my "flair" (reference to Jennifer Aniston's role in Office Space - and yes, I expressed myself and my "flair" often!), referring to the "Cashier College" badge I had to wear... I already had one college degree and was working on another, even while working 2 jobs and raising 2 kids on my own! Most people were nice enough, but there were always those few who had to be uppity. That was many years ago. and it's even worse now... Trash people? YOU make the trash! Septic and sewer workers? YOU make the stuff they have to work on! None of us is better than another and we all deserve livable wages, EVEN the migrant workers who pick your fruits and veggies (far from stealing American jobs, THEY help put food on YOUR tables, and there are very few Americans who would stoop to this kind of back-breaking, tedious, hard work for a pittance of pay!) I don't dispute that some earn more pay because they have educated themselves and worked hard to get "up the ladder", esp as I was one of them. But these people who get ludicrous money for "running" a company, and even get big payouts when they leave in disgrace, is disgusting. How many millions or billions does one family need? Then to look down on those who just get by and blame it on them? Pshaw!
(apologies for the rant... however this does apply to the forum as well - the hardest working people at facilities or for agencies are among the lowest paid people in the whole care industry!)
I'd still push back on those delivery charges, esp for the medication. Those poor "working slobs" need to be helped too, to ensure the NHS stays afloat (sure, all the money raised recently helps, but still...) They are just like your brother, working hard, not "pushing pencils" and trying to make a living. Dad's arguments against paying them, to me, is pissing into the wind! Of course for him this isn't just about the money, whether he is out of touch and/or cheap, it is about controlling you.
"Hes done this many times. Backs down. As if he lost the battle and needs to retreat. After all, what is the point of telling me hes ill now and calling the doctor - I've already said no. Its counterproductive to argue with me further now."
One can hope (a GOOD anticipation) that this will become more the norm... He may be figuring out that his "tactics" are no longer working... Keep at it! I think you are winning some of these games and might just win the trophy!!!
"I fully expect brother is spitting feathers now."
Good. Makes a nice visual you can switch to instead of anticipating dad's next move! Should be enough to bring a smile to your face!!!
Also, I'm a little wary. He already thinks my brother is the "hard done by working man" and I'm pretty much the "pencil pusher who gets money for nothing". I don't want to make things worse.
To put into perspective, my poor wife is nurse. Its not well paid. She works 22.5 hours per week not full time. BUT even so, I earn more in a week than she does in a month. I feel so sorry for her because its so hard work..
Can't even imagine telling dad that... Like I said, he offers me £20 to cover "lost wages". You can see what I mean!
I think you're spot on. I phoned him yesterday. Didnt call the doctor afterwards, hasnt mentioned food.
Hes done this many times. Backs down. As if he lost the battle and needs to retreat. After all, what is the point of telling me hes ill now and calling the doctor - I've already said no. Its counterproductive to argue with me further now.
I fully expect brother is spitting feathers now. His "plan" to get me onto his rota failed. And it will continue to fail.
Im going to see Dad on my terms tonight. With me WFH all day, its easier to do on a week night now. No traffic. Frees up my weekends with family too. To kill 2 birds with one stone, my MIL is around today for a few days again (Arrgh!) so wife and kids have got her to themselves.
The money this is funny. He'll often offer £20. Not sure how much he thinks people get paid? (Minimum wage in the uk is close to £10 an hour).
Of course, I'm not employed either. I've got VAT, employers tax (NI), accountant fees etc etc to pay out of the "gross". And of course, with no sick pay, holiday pay, pension etc its got to be more than normal (or it wouldnt be worth doing).
Dad would have a real shock if I told him his £20 for half a days missed work is probably about 10% of what the real cost is. Which is why, in the past, when he wants me to collect him from hospital, me paying a £10 taxi fare is much better option.
No question guilt trip. To answer your question, plenty of people do this. Too many people fall into the guilt trap and give in. You have your own trips planned, you don't need to go on his!
My response, every time he said that:
Me too dad (smirk), me too, sorry, ta ta!
I don't buy it. He doesn't think he's helpless, he thinks he can fool you by pretending he is. It's how he's gotten you (and possibly/probably others) to jump and ask how high in the past. Don't know how long he's been doing this, but it'll take a long time (if ever) to train him out of it! If something works and one gets "rewarded", one tries it again. The more times rewarded, the more deeply ingrained it becomes. Ever watch kids pester over and over, pushing the limit until mom or pop capitulates? They WILL do it again and push MORE each time, because they've been "rewarded."
This is also about the anticipation I posted before - you anticipate he'll do this, this and this and THEN you're "rewarded" when he does it (justification for thinking it.) For you, the "reward" isn't worth it! It's why you have to work on stopping the anticipation. Focus more on saying No. Don't think about what he might say or do, focus on No. When he changes tactic, THAT is your reward - you won that hand!
I related a story about my kids and grocery before. Brief reminder: first time they ask about getting candy, I said "I'll think about it." The second time they ask, my response was "If you ask me again, the answer is NO." They were smart enough that IF they remembered at check-out, they'd meekly ask if I'd thought about it. Different question/tactic! Sometimes I'd say yes, other times no. So there was NO guarantee if you didn't ask, but there WAS a chance... They were pretty SMAHT cookies!!
Another time standing behind a woman at a pharmacy, two pre-school kids were picking up various candy asking can I have this, can I have this and she kept saying no until it was her turn to check out, then told them to pick out something! I could barely restrain myself! I wanted to slap her across the back of her head and shout YOU'RE TEACHING THEM TO DO THIS! I can't imagine how things were when they got older - eeesh!
So, he tries his various tricks, resorting to those that've worked. I'm out of food. I'm ill. I need someone to deal with <X> issue. He's gotten you to do these things. Might've been okay before when younger, no family yet, more time, etc, but now he's learned and is using those same "techniques." Clearly he doesn't NEED food, medical treatment, medications when you offer to have it delivered and he refuses saying he won't pay. It isn't really about the money or whatever he says he needs. It's all part of his method. The "need" is to control you. Stick with the standard responses and he'll cycle through his tricks, but get nowhere. You win!
The more you say no, the more he'll resort to the next "tactic." Don't fall for them (or anticipate them.) Learn to tune it out and just say no. He asks for a visit, you say no. He says he needs food (you know he doesn't), offer to have it delivered, No. Then, oh I'm so ill. I'll ring the doc for you. No. When he resorted to ill - you DID fall for it a bit, and "rewarded" him by asking questions. If he says he's ill, tell him to call the doc, nothing more. If it's the virus, he'd likely be short of breath and/or coughing. My response would have been 'Gee pop, you just wanted me to visit, now suddenly you're ill? Should I be visiting if you're ill? Shouldn't you call the doctor?' Don't ask any questions about him. I understand the concern, but you KNOW this is his typical modus operandi, so don't buy into it, especially when he was expecting you to come and was disappointed when you said no. So, still no reward of a visit by saying he's 'ill', so next ramp up the illness (because it DID get a minimal reward!) to push for what he wanted. You even saw that: "And he used this to try and make sure I visit."
"He won't listen to anyone, he wants things how he wants things." So, again, the answer is NO. No explanation, no questions, just No. He won't listen anyway and it's a waste of your time. Let him cycle through and you win!
If the medicine is all oh-so-important, it needs to get there asap. Having it put up near you is fine, BUT he needs to know 1) you won't get it to him right away and 2) make up a delivery charge for yourself, more than what he's offering (I would imagine the Rx delivery would be a lot less than what he offered to you! ~$25 American money. So clearly that's a tactic, not related to cost.)
If UK has charts for mileage (usually covers gas + wear and tear), use that PLUS an hourly rate - doesn't have to be your rate, he doesn't need to know what you make, it just needs to be more than he'd be willing to pay!
Let's see, his offer $25 so consider that the hourly rate and multiply by 1.5 hours plus mileage (current rate for business in US is $0.575/mile - at 25 miles each way, that is $28.75.) Total, not including time to/from pharmacy plus gas to get there and back plus wait time, would be $53.75, or just under 45L. So tell him it'll cost him 45L (unless you think it would need to be more... just enough to ensure he won't bite.) He complains about how high that is, tell him he's getting a family discount! It's your work time, this is what you get paid (so he thinks) and you're losing that much time, gas and pay by having to do what the pharmacy can do in minutes! Not only that, as you noted, clients won't take kindly to multiple cuts into their time! You could end up losing your job - he might relish that, until you tell him how much you REALLY make and that you will expect him to pay THAT amount to provide his "care" - bet that would choke him up! I'd also bet that a "home" would cost a lot less!!!
If he injures himself again, now or at any time in the future, I would also warn him that the doctors can tell it is self inflicted and self harm is considered a mental health issue and they *could* lock him up for that!
Good for the wife! I hope you took this opportunity to praise and congratulate her for pushing back! You DO need to reinforce this any time it happens! It'll make more sense in my next post, but GOOD FOR HER!!!! Give her a high five and a nice big hug and a kiss!!!!
As I've said, I'm a consultant not an employee of wherever I work. Most places are pretty good but you don't get as much slack as an employee if you know what I mean. If a plumber came around, then said got to go and left your toilet in pieces, you know what I mean?
Its not just the money its the bad feeling. Everyones human and I expect it'd be ok. But just how many father emergencies is my client gonna go for?
Your hourly rate at 1.5 hours + fuel costs would be (insert price here). Tell him that! He wouldn't want to deprive your family of that income now would he? Oh, he's ok with that? Says he's more important than feeding your family? Well Dad you've become very unreasonable. My answer is no. Stay polite. Say no I can't do that. Pause. Let him argue with the silence. Let him sort it out.
I offered to speak to doctor/pharmacist arrange to get it delivered if needs be, even if it costs, or sent to pharmacy near me so I'd bring tuesday evening. Nope not paying, dont want all the "hassle" of that....
Good try to get me there again when there are alternatives...
The other person I work with is there but it could have been me. And I have spoken to him this am to help him.
As soon I said, I can't make it but will visit one night in the week, his tone changed. Suddenly I had the old "I've been so ill I'm going to phone the doctor today". Yeh right that old chestnut.
I asked him a few questions - got to make sure its not covid. All pretty much non-specific made up or age related stuff. Fun outing for the doc tomorrow then! Dad is already got his bag packed and said he'll phone me if he gets admitted to hospital. Total fabrication AGAIN.
Oh and I had to bite my lip. FIVE times he said the words "Im SO disappointed you can't come today". OMG. Give me a break will you? Who says that to someone? Guilt trip or what?
So disappointed I didnt get my way more like....
I'm here now just fuming mad....
He won't listen to anyone, he wants things how he wants things.
And he used this to try and make sure I visit.
I've got plenty on my plate at the mo with Dad and MIL. Wife has told MIL THREE times already "no you don't need to come up sunday and stay till friday, we've got things sorted, I will see you TUESDAY".
Thats bad enough lol but I'm a little unimpressed shes pushing like this with no thought for some space for us.
(Not that dad has any boundaries!)
Look, you need to eat. So you buy food. If you can't shop yourself - do a phone or online order & get it delivered. If it costs to do that - then you pay for that. That's how it works. I am happy to help out for an emergency or course, or after an operation, but if this is a regular everyweek occurrence YOU must sort yourself out.
This went for groceries, letting EMS in the door, travel to appointments, booking appointments & on & on.
It's so very entitled to expect someone not living with you to do all that. It's also so very entitled for a sibling to expect you to be his casual fill-in whenever he needs it. I absolutely stand behind the decision to block the brother's calls. If he is not willing to see or hear Paul's point of view - bye-bye.
As for Dad... I would seriously consider telling him straight out. Dad, you need so much help to live alone. If you want to keep living alone, you will need to get more help in. I am ONE person & I am not able to do more. So get more help in. Or move into a home. They are your choices. Hire more help. Or move. Repeat at every new demand.
I do feel for the old guy. Probably can't plan enough to actually arrange his own help. (My sister really can't. But that didn't mean it was MY job. Meant a new plan was needed).
Paul, vent away here.
My goodness, I would have seriously lost my marbles if I had not found this site & started saying no.