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Well Dad is ramping things up as expected....

Yesterdays phone call was about how ill he was (cold again), how depressed he was and how he couldnt wait for me to come and see me soon! Eh? I never agreed to that....

Once again, I told him how things were in the country. In one ear and out the other again!

Am I being unreasonable here?

I got him loads of food a few weeks ago for his freezer. Brother has been getting the day to day stuff like bread and mil for him (remember he lives a mile away no kids etc).

OK, Dad may get a little short on frozen meals. He likes a specific type which (by coincidence lol) are sold in the supermarket near where I live. Although I'm betting hes still got plenty left.

Hes gets "meal on wheels" 4 days a week (not sure why but he could do 7 days but chooses not to).

Yet he still wants me, it seems, to drive 25 miles each way with his favourite frozen dinner, only for me to send it up on his stairlift. Its not as if I even see him face to face. I just don't get why hes trying to make me do it! He knows what the queues are like at supermarkets, its been tough enough with wife stck at home.

Also, surely its not an urgent journey? If the police pulled me over, I can't see how "yes I'm delivering his favourite food, but oh yes my brother a mile away is sorting essentials" They'd look at me as if I was stupid!

Dad could do:-
1. Arrange meals on wheels for every day.
2. Get brother to buy a different brand of frozen meal.
3. Let me arrange deliveries (maybe not so easy).
4. Make me make a borderline illegal drive (that I could be fined for) to deliver what he wants....

I don't get why option 4 in his head is the one he wants... Seems very selfish.
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All - yes she is accident prone lol.....
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Paul - take care of yourself. You're the only healthy and fully able bodied adult right now.
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Paul so sorry for your wife’s toe. Ouch. That really must have hurt. I fell off my crutches after having knee surgery and injured my coccyx. I was very young at the time. Still remember that pain. Hope she feels better soon.
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I remember when I was doing physical therapy after my accident there was this young woman who wore high heels all the time to go dancing.

She had to get bunion surgery. I am not sure what bunions are. Anyway, she was supposed to stop wearing high heels, take a break from dancing with heals and continue her physical therapy.

Youth! LOL She whispered to me that she had a date to go dancing that weekend! Have a feeling this young woman was going to keep having her foot issues.
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Beatty,

Ouch!!! But it was fun until you hit the wall. LOL
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After some adult beveridges in my 20's & some Fred Astaire dance moves with a friend (we thought so) I sort of hit of the floor & slid until the wall stopped me. Two toes went one way, two the other, the middle one a head-on.

Even with the bevvies, it was painful!

Sympathy & tea for your wife.
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paul: I hear that about your wife's toe being 45 degrees out of shape. Then she fell - oh, no! So when I had to go out of state to take care of my mother, I had a "Hammar toe," which is one toe that crosses over the one beside it. No sleep and pain for 6 months! ...until I could get back home to have surgery. It was rough. Good luck to your wife.
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"...broken toe..." been there, done that - while on vaca in SC many years ago. not much they can do for it. i had to drive home (2 days with layover) with that, standard shift AND a bad case of hives from a bee sting 2 weeks prior! on top of that, mother too (she was a PITA even then, well before dementia.) SHE made the trip even more miserable - I can deal with the pain and the serious itch, but not her behavior...
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Yeh her toe was like 45 degrees out of shape....

She didn't want to go to the hospital. I had to make her go!

Hospital was quiet. One door to go in and no other people allowed in.
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Oucheeeeeee , Paul. Your poor wife! Poor you!

Take care of her, and you. Leave dad be. >>>>>>>>((((((hugs)))))))))).

(That's a socially distanced hug)
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Paul,

Oh my gosh! That must have hurt. Ouch! Geeeeez, not a fun way to spend the day.

April1st. I get that you wouldn’t believe her. Hahaha
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All - yeh I guess the hardest thing is for us (hopefully) "normal" people to reconcile what others like this actually do. Most of us would never ever attempt to do this....

Wife doing OK with knee. Bit of a setback yesterday, she stumbled and nearly fell, hit her other food. 3 Hours in hospital yesterday, badly broken toe that needed to be manipulated back in place, so thats all strapped up too.

She was howling down the stairs yesterday am shouting saying "I think I've broken my toe". I just shouted back "yeh right, April the 1st!"
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paul: So glad to hear that your wife is doing okay. Yay! "Sly old dog" -oh my gosh.
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Margaret,

It is sly behavior. It’s clever too. It’s acknowledging his behavior in a sarcastic way.

Plenty of people use techniques like Paul’s dad. They play dumb when caught. We all catch onto their behavior. My mom did the same thing. Paul is totally aware of his dad’s behavior. He doesn’t need to reread the messages.

He isn’t complementing his dad or respecting his behavior. I get exactly how Paul feels. I saw the same thing in my mom’s behavior as well as some of my friend’s parents.
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"This young lady is a teacher. She is a graduate from a respectable university. Her father is a dentist, and her mother also a teacher. These are educated and intelligent people."
and
"What was her reason for ignoring all advice..."

Two possible issues there...
- someone can be book smart/educated, but be incredibly stupid otherwise.
- many people ignore advice, laws, rules, etc because it won't happen to them!

Hopefully she wasn't one of the infected but no symptoms who would pass it on to the elders...

Ya really can't fix stupid (having pols be stupid and not warn or accept what was happening or about to happen doesn't help, if those are the ones they look up to.)
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Paul, your father is not a "sly old dog". You shouldn’t “laugh” when it’s “become obvious what he’s playing at”. Or be impressed that “Dad is clever”. There’s much too much respect in those reactions, as well as affection that he does not deserve. You need to reread and believe your own complaints about what he has done to you and your family for years. I will repeat that “a large part of your personal problem is simply accepting that your father is a very nasty man”. Think about it again.
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Paul,

So glad that your wife is doing well. Yes, she shouldn’t go back before she is ready. She does need to heal. I am sure it’s very frustrating for her.
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Yeh Dad is clever. Sometimes I have a conversation and afterwards think "you sly old dog". He always manages to turn things around to what he wants.

Not always - there have been many times when things have been so transparent its become obvious what hes playing at. That does make me laugh....

Wifes knee is going ok. Week now and it seems be going well. 12 weeks off work but shes trying to volunteer to go back in a few weeks to do something sitting down (remember shes a nurse). I just hope she doesnt go back too soon - she does do this!
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Yes, people’s behavior can be very clever!

A friend of mine who has so much trouble with her mom who is always scheming things. Her mom forgets that she has revealed how she ‘tricked’ her three previous husbands and many others.

So when she tries to pull the same trick on her daughter, my friend tells her, “Mom, you got away with that with your dead husbands but you can’t pull that trick on me.”

The ‘playing dumb’ thing is a very old trick! My mom tried that all the time.
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Paul - I just realize that your dad is a master at pushing boundaries and buttons, and then playing dumb. No he's not dumb at all, he's very clever.
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paul: It's human nature to reply. You are not wrong in doing so. Prayers. My mother sometimes made me angry.
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Yep, it’s part of the plan! My mom did the same thing as your dad. She would stay calm too. You’re fine, Paul. You know where he stands and you know where your priorities are.

Take a break from him when you need to. You don’t have to speak to him every single day. Keep the conversations brief when you do call.

Since my mom moved out I have only spoken to her briefly a few times. I called this week and had a short chat. I am like you. I don’t expect her to ever change. It doesn’t even matter anymore.

At some point, we have to stop wishing or hoping for them to be different. I accepted it and feel like you have too. It took me being away from mom to realize certain things.

Otherwise, it’s weird. Seeing her daily was a reminder of what she wasn’t ever going to be. I have no contact with my brothers. Don’t plan to resume a relationship with them. Nothing in common.

My brother has wonderful sons. They are nothing like him. He can’t take credit for how great they turned out. They have a terrific mom and she deserves the credit for their character. I am close to my nephews. I am godmother to his oldest son.

How is your wife’s knee? Is she in a lot of pain or relatively comfortable?
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ha ha thanks all. Yeh I am awful at doing this.... He says something and stupidly I reply....

I am getting better honest. I have managed to not say things now during a phone call and let a lot of things go.

I've realised its pointless getting mad because it just upsets me - he doesnt care!

He is clever though. NEVER loses his temper or let it get into an argument. That would be easier. He knows how far to push and knows he needs to keep me onside a little. i.e. Have a go at me but not get into a raised voices argument.
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Peacefulness, I'm kind of chuckling at your Dad's plans. No offence! I'd be seeking peace too with such a determined schemer handing me lists.

Move from one apartment (with cleaning & meals I presume?) to another apartment with cleaner & cook.

The benefit to him would be what exactly???

My Mum has her little schemes too. I just go hmmmm, I see, riiiight, ok. I wait for the "YOU have to..." No, I won't be doing that. Change subject.

It is draining.
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I feel your pain. I am in the exact situation. My dad is so selfish. Even though our state is in lockdown mode my dad doesn’t seem to see the seriousness of the situation and how our economy is going to tank. He wants to move out of his independent living apartment into a condo and hire a cook and a cleaning lady. it’s insane. He’s 94 years old. He’s in the best place for him. I am so tired of humoring him. He makes a list of things that he wants me to do for him even though we are on lockdown. I have tried the same things. Nothing works. I love my dad but ....I keep thinking that we will have a good karma. At any rate you are not alone.
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I was taught by a 5 year old. Back when we split up, the soon-to-be ex liked to call (and bring up crap when supposedly visiting the kids) and push the buttons. It is just nature to want to defend oneself or respond, HOWEVER, if I can do it with encouragement from a 5yo, YOU can do it too!

The scenario:

Locked out of our house, staying at my parents' house. Once everyone was out, gone to work (I was on off-shift then), he would call, sometimes waking me. He would start the button pushing and get me to argue. My daughter, then 5, was standing next to me and calmly said "Why don't you just hang up the phone?"

I stopped, looked at her in amazement, and said what a great idea, why didn't I think of that? I hung up. Of course, he called right back, just to be a PITA. EVERY time since then, when I feel that urge to fight back or respond, knowing that it will lead to argument, I pause to make a decision - argue or not. Answer = NOT. One time the pause, brief as it was, was enough for him to ask if I was going to respond. By then, I composed myself and replied "No, because if I do, we are going to get into an argument and I don't want to argue." He went ballistic! At that point, I calmly hung up the phone and took it off the wall (that prevented listing to the phone ring!) Stupid as he was, he actually brought the police to the house, upsetting the kids, on the pretext that I was the problem. After he left with the kids, I did ask the officer to stay and asked him why.

Eventually the crap was reduced, but only because I refused to play the game. Even later, when the kids were older, he would try to get my goat, and argue. Nope. Did it still irritate me? Sure. BUT, I did NOT allow his behavior to influence mine. (Adding my kids were 3 and 5 at the time, so I had to deal with this for a long long time! Nipped in the bud, for me anyway - he could continue his crap, but I refused to play the games.)

Leaving the phone on the counter/table, mumbling ummm hmmm a few times, a few "sures", "whatevers", etc, but don't react. It takes effort, sure, but it is SO worth it.

You also need to focus on what's important in your life and resist the urge to anticipate what he might do or plan. What he does, he does and will continue to do. Why waste time and energy on that? Work on tuning him out when you do interface, work on not responding/reacting to what he says, work on not giving him ammo to shoot with.

Use that extra time to hug/take care of the wife (hoping she's better every day!), reaching out/interfacing with the kids. BANISH him and his antics from your head. Nothing you think, do or say will change his behavior (or brother), you can only change your own. Banish thoughts, practice non-committal responses, agree to everything, do nothing!
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Paul, we all have buttons that can be pushed by those close to us. You know, those buttons that brings words out of our mouths that we don't want to say?

Your dad raised you. He "installed" those buttons. Getting them uninstalled is a process, not a one off.

The best way I know how is therapy, but that's been discussed here before and it seems to be a non-starter for you. So I'm going to suggest being prepared.

Write up a bunch of notecards. One says "hmmm". One that says "silence". One that says "gotta go"...and some other neutral statements.

Practise in front of a mirror or the camera on your computer. Relax your face and shoulders. Imagine you're on a beach in Florida with a cool adult beverage in your hand. Practise not hearing the provocation in your father's tone and language. Look at a card and read the response. Repeat.

Keep the cards handy for his next call, if you decide to listen.

Putting the phone down on the table and not listening is okay, too. This technique is an alternative.
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Paul,

That's what happened to me too. I had enough. I wanted to spend time with my family and friends. I devoted so much time to my mom and I hated that it was all dumped on me. I did the most and I was appreciated the least.

It got under my skin to hear mom praise my idiot brothers. Like you, I had enough and decided to start living my life differently. I didn't want to have regrets of not spending enough time with my husband and daughters. I gave so much to her. I needed time for me.
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NeedHelp - yes I feel like that. Every conversation I have I dont want to be there....

Sometimes I look at him and I dunno.

I have had enough now....
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