
Many of us, myself included, come from a dysfunctional family which adds a lot of weight to the challenges of caregiving. I have read stores on various threads on other topics and decided it would be good to have a thread just for this topic for people to share, vent and discuss.
The idea for this thread originated on the thread named "The Caregiver....How are YOU doing today?"
(((((((Jessie)))))) just catching up with your posts now
Sorry you fell off the detachment wagon – (but, like that phrase). Sometimes everything you do is the wrong thing BTDT, Glad you have the rabbits to cuddle. Pets are wonderful companions.
Also glad one sil is supportive. Hope you can ignore the other one. You are absolutely right, if Jesus were there he would sit and hold dad’s hand. What a gift that OT is!
Caregivers do rock, and do go through a lot!
Jessie, I am glad you went to the DONM site. It has so much good information and many suggestions. Your mum’s reactions do sound narcissistic.. Narcissists always stir up the waters and create problems- - doesn’t matter what it is about, or if it makes no sense to you.
There are several theories about the cause of personality disorders such as narcissism, but none of these are really clear. Here is a quote from the Mayo Clinic about causes, which includes pretty well everything I have read.
“It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. The cause may be linked to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. It's also possible that genetics or psychobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking — plays a role in the development of narcissistic personality disorder.”
In my mother’s extended family there were several women, and one man that I know of, who were “strange” and self centered. Mother is one of them. Her 4 siblings (now deceased) were the nicest people you could meet, as were my grandfather and grandmother. This leads me to suspect a genetic connection in her case, and the others in her family. There was no abuse, or neglect or pampering.
Madge – ((((hugs))))). I sure hope your mum does not take you up on that offer. Her nursing home suggestion sounds good to me. Hold her to it, if you need to! Yes, the chickens do come home to roost. Good to see you posting
Can you get a third party opinion - doctor or social worker or some such person invloved as to the wisdom of her going back to her house? Has she had an evaluation to assess her capabilities, and what level of home care she needs, or if, indeed, it is advisable forn nher to go home?Have you toured the facilites yourself so as to narrow down the search? I would be inclined to go on the tour without her, to show her that you are serious about this option. making it clear to her that one day it may be her only option, and if you were her you would like to be involved in the choice.If she is capable of going home with home care, it may not work out that well because of the narcissism and control issues, however it is fair enough to try it, if it works for you. You may be fortunate enough to get care workers who can handle narcissists.
How about - Plan A - she goes home with Home Care (as long as her eval indicates this is OK) and if that does not work out, Plan B is an ALF. I would make it clear to her what her options are.
Let her know clearly also, in writing if necessary, what you can do for her and what you cannot do for her, or she will likely chip away at your time and energy. Using cmag's phrase -they hoover you in.
I know all these things are hard, and I pray that you work out a solution that is good for you and that takes care of your mum's needs.
Let us know what happens.
jo
what med's is she taking? and are they necessary? as in really necessary? she's from a different generation when the quacks and so called "health insurance" SWINE didn't want to force all of us into being patients by lowering the numbers gradually over the years. blood pressure, cholesterol, etc...maybe she doesn't think she needs some of that crap. if you tell me what some of it is, I'll give you my layman's opinion.
Open for thoughts and suggestions. I'm so tired!!!
This is clipped from coping*dot*org (Tools for dealing with control issues/learning how to detach).
In order to become detached from a person, place, or thing you need to:..:
First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place, or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or codependent on.
Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places, or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.
Third: "Hand over'' to your Higher Power the persons, places, and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.
Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need'' to fix, change, rescue, or heal other persons, places, and things.
Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick'' and "unhealthy'' to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal, or rescue another person, place, or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.
Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean'' and a "role model'' of health in order for another to recognize that there is something ``wrong'' with them that needs changing.
Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.
Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings, and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places, or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.
Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are ``sick'' behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places, and things.
Tenth: Accept that many people, places, and things in your past and current life are "irrational,'' "unhealthy,'' and "toxic'' influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.
Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.
Twelfth: Practice "letting go'' of the need to correct, fix, or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.
Personally, in place of the phrase "your higher power", I put God. I hope this list is helpful.
There are two more things that I want to add that I did not write. These have more to do with relating with someone who has borderline personality disorder, but they are useful elsewhere.
(SET)Support - Empathy - Truth
Support refers to an initial statement, which indicates the loved one supports the person. It is a statement that begins with "I" and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. It can be anything that establishes a foundation for the relationship or interaction: "I want to try to help you feel better," "I care about you," or "I am worried about how you are feeling."
The support statement is meant to reassure the person that the relationship is a safe one, and that his/her needs matter even during this difficult moment.
Empathy refers to communicating that the loved one is trying to understand what the person is feeling, and focuses on "you." It is not a conveyance of pity or sympathy, but instead a true awareness and validation of the feelings of the BP: "I see you are angry, and I understand how you can get mad at me," "How frustrating this must be for you."
It is important not to tell the person how he is feeling, but instead put his demonstrated feelings into words. The goal is to convey a clear understanding of the uncomfortable feelings he is having and that they are OK to have, thus validating his feelings. Without such a statement of empathy, the person may feel that his feelings are not understood. It is important to use feeling words, as in the examples above.
Truth refers to a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the person's role in solving the problem. It is an objective statement that focuses on the "it" -- not on the subjective experience of the person or yourself. Often the person may seem to be asking, or demanding, something impossible, not taking an active role or responsibility in resolving the issue, or even presenting you with a "no-win" situation. The truth statement is meant to clearly and honestly respond to the difficult demand or behavior of the person, while placing responsibility appropriately: "This is what I can do.," "This is what will happen.," "Remember when this happened before and how you felt so bad about it later."
It is important to use the support and empathy statements first, so that the person is better able to hear what you are saying, otherwise the truth statement may be experienced as little more than another, and expected, rejection creating even more defensiveness or anger.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
PUVAS
(use for complaining and/or blaming)
- Pay attention
- Understand fully
- Validate emotions
- Assert yourself
- Shift/Share the Responsibility
Paying attention to what is happening and what is being said helps us avoid making assumptions.
Understanding what someone is trying to communicate may require seeking clarification so we don't make assumptions.
Validating the emotional statements of the other person will pave the way for further smooth communications.
Asserting yourself is a form of setting boundaries and is a very important piece of the healthy communication process.
Shifting responsibility where it belongs holds each party accountable for their own feelings and behaviors. This can be in response to four different scenarios...
1.) If your person is blaming you for his or her feelings and behaviors
2.) If you are placing blame on yourself inappropriately
3.) If you are trying to fix their problem
4.) If you recognize that you have done something to contribute to the problem.
But I am glad she made that statement since I really don't want to deal with her. The chickens will come home to roost.
So much written is true of my mother. She loves it when others fail and ignores when they succeed. She used to use bad things we did as teenagers to go out and gossip with the neighbors about "ain't it awful."
It is sad that she has gone through a life of not loving. I wonder what could have caused it in her. Her father and mother were both warm, caring people. I knew that my mother had many narcissistic traits, but didn't know she fit into the narcissistic mother category. I guess because she has always looked so awful.
I emailed the families of my two brothers and got responses from my SILs. One was supportive as always. She and my brother took care of her mother for many years before she died, so they know what I'm going through. My other SIL is very religious and sent back a very odd email about how all that was going on was to glorify God and to sanctify our souls, quoting scripture. Okay. Her email came across sounding judgmental and cold. I never say much to them, because I know we don't have a fun bunch of people in this house, but sometimes I want to say, "You talk the talk, but don't walk the walk." If Jesus was here, I know he would come and sit and hold my father's hand.
Yesterday my mother and father had not wanted to have OT & PT for my father anymore. So I cancelled the appointments. Then my mother got mad that Dad wasn't trying and said he was committing suicide. So one day she wants to cancel. Then we cancel and she flies into a rage. I wish I could say for sure it was dementia, but she isn't diagnosed. The OT showed up yesterday, anyway, and my father told her he did want to keep seeing her. She relates well to him -- she must be a treasure to do that! She took time and worked with him. I think she did a lot of good. She even made him show a spark of life. I knew that she had been sent to him because she was someone he needed. There are angels walking among us.
My mother didn't like her because she said the OT worked Dad too hard. I hope she doesn't poison that water. Today she started in on him about the income taxes. Goodness! I can do the taxes if I need to. I don't know why she is fretting him about them just now. He has had a trying week.
Something that occurred to me yesterday is that we caregivers go through a lot and keep going. Caregivers sure do rock! Proud to be one.
jessie has a great idea - use what ever the system will give you - it can't all be up to what your mum wants. You have needs too and big ones, You don't have to stay all night because she doesn't like the nurses - you NEED to take whatever time you can for yourself. My mother doesn't like the help she gest either, and would have me give up my life here with home, my sig other, my kids and grandkids to go and live with her and wait on her hand and foot. - and I know she would complain all the time. I can't do it - it would finish me one way or another. They don't like it, but other people can look after them - maybe even better than you can as they have detachment and training. If your mum has gone onto heart failure then I would think she may need different care than you can give her. And remember - no guilt. Talk to a social worker at the hospital, or the dept of aging care. or anyone who can help (I don't know the American system as I am in Canada) and tell them what you ared up against with your health and your son's health, and your mother. Know my prayers are still with you! Since she is already in hospital can they keep her to do all the tests?
cmag - I don't think anyone worries about your grammatical errors or even notices them - your input is so valuable. Looks like you have the financial things in order now - a good attny is necessary.
hi sballen51 and welcome - a narcissistic mum and all the negative energy is a very hard one to deal with. I am not an only child, but my sister is the golden girl ,and I am cinderella - to do the work and take the blame, I was shocked when my mum said she was coming to live near me as she got older, as my sister always expected mother to move near her. They used to holiday toigether -at my mother's expense. The distance had helped me, and a lot of cans of worms were opened when mother moved closer. I had to deal with them. I would never take her into my home (as long as there was ANY other alternative) as I knew she would take over my life. What I have found in the past 15+ years is that I have to work through the anger and hurt from the past, and grieve the mother I needed but never had, in order to detach and distance emotionally. Detaching is not easy, but was necessary for my mental and physical health, and it is what the experts recoimmend when dealing with a narcissist.
ucant -hope your head is better (((hugs)))
marirob - u r welcome. I learn more and more as I google various aspects of narcissism -there is more than one type of narcissists, but they do have some things in common, I know I need to heal from the past, and would rather do that before mother passes, as much as possible. It isn't always over when it is over. I am glad you can share with your sister. Mine is worse than my mother, so that is another closed door for me. You are soi right about the triggers, and getting dragged back down into the morass,
jessie, not all old people are in bad moods - my aunt who died at 97 was as sweet as ever right to the end, and I know others who were. I think you live as you have always lived and if that was negative, it probably gets worse as you get older - it surely is depressing What did you get your dad for Valentines Day?
austin - thanks for your input - it is always good to hear from someone who started to stick up for themselves - that message can't be stressed enough
Please all caregivers - do something good for YOU today. Your needs are equally important as the needs of others!.(at least) It is so easy to get into a codependent relationship with those you care for - BTDT got several T-shirts, not going back. Detachment is not easy, but can be a life saver in a situation with a narcissist.
If I have forgotten anyone, it is not intentional
Love, hugs and prayers for all ♥♥♥
jo
I thought i was getting a handle on first names for those of you who have shared them, but my brain isn't cooperating unless i see the name often
My mom went by ambulance to the hospital yesterday.. I was there for most the night because she doesnt like any of the nurses.. I finally could not stay any longer due to I am still very sore from my surgery.. she went into heart failure.. plus her potassium is way off as are many other things, so they will balance her off and then she will come home to me to care for.. Im trying not to think of that part right now.. I mentioned to the Doc this morning on the phone about her confusion/her all around behavior.. and how it has gotten worse.. he is going to look into that.. I really dont want to think of this road I have ahead of me..
I will get the detachment info on here sometime today.
I think that I need to take the time to review my posts giving how many grammatical errors that I make from time to time. I'll just blame it on being a bit manic when I write these posts.
Sometime today, I'm going to post some information somebody gave me about detachment.
Prayers, love and hug for you as well as for everyone else!
Love to all!
Hugs to all who are caught in the trap and prayers that you find your way out. People all over this site care much for each other and there is support for whatever journey we are undertaking.
I've been in therapy for several years now dealing with my own mom issues which I thought I had more freedom from, plus I did not realize just how deep my anger went nor how much pain my memory had been blocking earlier. What having to deal with that is not good news, the result is good news in that my wife and I feel much closer together which is so important as we have just entered the empty nest stage. She comes from a similar background and after working through her issues before I did mine, we felt closer.
Your mother put those buttons that she presses in you long ago. It is not your fault. You can't control her illness. Nor can you fix it and make her the mother she never was. All you or any of us dealing with a narcissistic parent can do is put ourselves on a healthy path which included detaching and setting boundaries with the conviction that you will continue no matter her own choices for a healthier path or not.
God bless you and please keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.
Finding this site is an answer to my prayers. I'm a very new caregiver ... mom came to live with us New Year's Day and I've been crying almost everyday. She has stage 2 dementia but it's the narcissistic behavior that's upsetting me most of all. Her presence has opened all of the childhood wounds of constant verbal abuse.
She has always been this way but I haven't had to live with it for the past 35 years and don't want to go down that road again. Reading your posts lets me know that even though I'm an only child I'm not alone in this challenge. God bless all of you.
My mother kept in her hands and hid various documents related to one that I signed back in 1990. It was a trust agreement in which my grandmother gave me various plots of land to hold in trust for my mother. I knew my mother did not want my step-dad to know about this trust agreement, but she should have given these papers to me as the named trustee.
I got hold of this document and the related deeds back in 2009 when my mother's world fell completely apart and I discovered what a terrible past due taxes situation that she and my step-dad were in as far back as 2004. My focus then was on those taxes which have been solved.
These plots of land are also part of my grandmother's estate which my two aunts also own sections of. The estate had an opportunity to make some money by selling just a little bit of one part of one farm.
So, in 2011 this sale was made. I told the atty. that I was trustee which he already new, but instead of writing the check to the trust that I am trustee of, he wrongly wrote it to me which I put in my mother's account for it was her's. Instead of doing that and reporting it on a K-1, he reported this to the IRS on a 1099-S which wrongly makes me liable for capital gains tax.
The CPA who works for my aunt was not aware of this trust. I informed him by e-mail what took place last year. He asked for a copy of the 1099-S. I faxed that to him plus a copy of the trust agreement.
He informed me of the atty.'s mistakes and told me how to get out of it.
He also told me that when that trust was formed, the IRS should have been informed and a special trust number requested so that we could report any gains that the land had gained for each year since 1990. I remember singing the trust agreement, but I had not idea what else that meant. BTW, my mother did the same thing with the Medical and Durable POA's that she had made in 2002 which meant in 2009 that we got two new ones which was a waste of money.
One problem that complicated all of this was my going on disability in 2003 due to my bipolar disorder.
My mother also hid from me her long term care insurance policy with all of its riders about having care at home before needing to go to assisted living or a nursing home.
Thus, she missed an opportunity to use which would have saved her much money that was stolen from her and my step-dad by a hired caretaker who was not licensed, plus they would not hear of having a licensed person.
We have another sell of land coming up in 2012 and this time I'm going to insist that the atty. does it correctly or request the family finds another atty.
At least now, I have this in hand, but like I say, I don't like finding out about this type of thing in arrears. Now I can complete my own taxes and help my sons fill in their FASFA forms with information from my return.
"I waited patiently for the Lord; He turned to me and heard my cry."--Psalm40:1
The guilt is a hard one, but you need, for your own good, to let it go. You are going above and beyond the call of duty, and NOTHING, dear one, NOTHING that happens to your mum will be your fault. She is gettng older and health problems will arise and, eventually, as with all of us, one day she will pass. None of us are perfect, and no one in their right mind expects you to be perfect, and to be there all the time for some one else. You can't, nor can anyone else. One thing that has helped me is others telling me that I have gone the second mile, and have done more than was expected. The narcissistic mum will always make you feel that you are failing her, and not doing enough for her - from childhood on. Remember, it is a mental illness. You are not failing her, and, in fact, you have done too much for her, and not enough for yourself. If you are having trouble with the guilt, as you say, just come here and others, I am sure, as well as I, will tell you that you have nothing to feel guilty about.
I wish I had understood about narcissism sooner too. It would have saved me a lot of trouble. I was trying to please my mum, at my own expense, and that is an impossible task, while my sis did nothing and was the preferred child - the golden girl. This is a typical pattern with narcissists. You will find so much on daughtersof narcissisticmothers.
A book, which is good, and I recommend it to any caregiver and certainly to anyone with a narcissist in the family, is "When the Body Says No" by Gabor Mate. I think your body is saying "No" and it is time for you to cooperate with what your body is telling you. It is not the end of the world if your mum has to go on medicaid, and into a nursing home or some such alternative, and it would be a new beginning for you and your family. Just pick one that is good and visit her regularly. I got my mum a live-in seniors nanny. That lasted 9 months.The nanny couldn't take it any more, and mother was not getting along with other people in her apartment building, so I moved her into an ALF of her choice and that lasted 6 months, and she had a battle with a nurse. So I moved her into a second ALF (again her choice), and then told her if she could not manage there it would be a nursing home. I think, even at her age, she would happily have moved every 6 months. She likes change. My life would be have occupied fully with moving her, and all the changes and adjustments that happen with a move. It would have used up her money faster than staying in one place and I am 74 and have my own health issues to deal with. Now she has much to complain about where she is, but she will always complain. Like you, I used to attend to every little concern. Now I have decided that I will only pay attention if I know it is something serious. She will be 100 soon, and no one lives forever, (I hope ;)). An example here - a few days ago I got a phone call from the ALF nurse, and 3 emails from mother as she had a 1 cm cut on her finger. Each email complained that no one was coming to put a new band aid on it, and one email sent at 7:45 complained that the person who was supposed to come with her breakfast at 8 was not there yet. I had to laugh at the extent to which she would go for attention. I would not fight with your mum about taking her medication. She gets attention that way. She can still make her own choices. She doesn't have dementia - but narcissism. Have the doctor tell her the consequences of not taking the meds, remind her once what the doctor has said, and then let it go. Her choice! My mother was flitting around between doctors, and then complaining about her blood pressure going up because she was being treated badly at the ALF. I told her to find one good doctor and stick with them, as otherwise the doc would not have a good picture of her, and would not be able to reat her properly. She did.
Know I care, Izabella and my prayers, and I am sure those of others are with you. I have found that God will not do for me what I can do for myself. God is hearing your prayers and He loves you. He wants you to have a better life, I am sure of that, but I believe that He wants you to make some of the changes yourself. He tells us to love others, as ourselves, but not more than, Some times that is hard.
((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))) Joan