Daughter wants to force us to attend Senior Center. How can we get her to leave us alone?

I went through all of that with my best friend, a widow who never had children. I had to research the place, then empty out her house and sell it. So I know what you are talking about. The problem is my husband. He has three rooms of 'stuff' that needs to be gone. He will start but just leave things in a bigger mess. I have begged him not to leave it for me to do.

freqflyer: My daughter works four days a week, so we arrange our appointments on the Wed. And she drives us in our car. We don't bother her weekends.

Hmmmm.

Just supposing, hypothetically, that you could get him to agree to the move to a place you're both happy with. Set aside the downsizing issue and get your new home lined up. So there you are, looking at the home you're going to move into, and it then becomes not so much a question of how to get rid of his (three rooms' worth yikes!) stuff, as of what comes with you. At which point you take charge of the selection process, based on your detailed knowledge of his day-to-day habits and preferences; and the rest is removed by your friendly neighbourhood house clearance company never to be seen again. And any family members, friends or neighbours who would like specific items that would otherwise be for the chop have until the date you give them to remove them now or forever hold their peace.

It could work..???

That might work -- now if only there is a place we can afford. Out here, Assisted Living is nearly $6000 for two people. I'll keep looking though. Good idea, Countrymouse.

I I am going to come across as probably very crude, but here goes...

We raise our children to become independent and live their own lives. Many parents are suffering because their children move back home because of financial reasons. Both of you have lived your lives. Your daughter is trying to live her life and feels very responsible about your quality of life.

Recently a family member and spouse moved in with me for 5 months. Neither one was physically active. They cluttered up my home. There was no alone time, other than go to one's own bedroom. They had so many irritating habits. They were kind and respectful, it's just living under the same roof, day in and day out. Anytime I suggested an outing, they would just say no. It involved walking, which they did not have the stamina for. Shopping in the mall, visiting parks, or flea markets. None of it.

It begins to feels like one big trap. Then it was time for them to go home, and although I miss them and love them, I am so glad they went back home.

You know the old saying, guests, like fish, start to smell after three days.

I agree with other comments about these senior centers. I never actively go out to play bingo, it can be so boring. Painting. Well, you have to be a born artist to want to paint. What if you don't like painting.

Many winter visitors come down and they have a ball. But they have the money to do many activities. Many of the recreation halls offer for free, music jams. This involves people who can play an instrument or sing to the whole group. They play tennis, golf, pool, bible study, happy hour, pot luck lunch and/or dinners, quilting, sewing, wood working, dancing (ball room, 2-stepping, line dancing or just sit and watch others dance). The list is endless. In addition, in these parks, each of them look out for their neighbors. That is a big plus.

Unfortunately, the senior centers are really, really boring. I've gone to several and walk out thinking, yuk, how can one just hang with them. To top it off, the senior centers in my area, because of the culture, are predominantly Hispanic. I have a difficult time sitting down with a group and they're all speaking in spanish, and here I sit, feeling very left out. When I speak up, they respond in english. So I feel like a third-wheel, being left out of everyone's conversations. That's how it is in the senior centers here in the Valley.

You need to find other people in your community to assist you in your needs, such as doctor appointments, etc. Allow your daughter as much relief as possible. Try not to depend on her for every errand you have.

This brings to mind my own parents, I was a young nineteen year-old-girl when I decided to up and leave and get married. My parents were both deaf and depended on me for interpreting for them in every social interaction they had. Once I left home, they hounded me. Finally, I told them they know how to read and write and to learn to do these things for themselves. They did. And I was allowed to move on with my own life.

No one should take your independence or freedom to do whatever you wish to do. Obviously, there's something not being said between the lines of what you wrote. If both of you were happy and content, I doubt she would be pushing you into activities that you have no interest in.

Good luck on standing your ground and keep being independent as long as possible. Try to use others in your community for needed assistance. Encourage your daughter and let her know she is not responsible for you.

Healer, just a comment on natural talents to be an artist - not so. I thought that as well but as I took a few lessons, bought art books, studied and experimented, I learned a lot of techniques that I never knew existed.

I think some areas require innate talent - I could never compose like Beethoven, for example, but art techniques can be learned, and the process of improvement is self validating.

There's also abstract act - as long as the person doing it is gaining confidence, skills or just being happy, who cares what it looks like?

There was a very, very insightful program on art therapy that was very enlightening. It was either on RLTV or one of the PBS stations; it's well worth watching.

Your other points were very helpful; I would agree with many of them, especially the winter snowbird culture in RV parks and other areas like retirement centers where seniors gather, as well as your insightful observation that there are unspoken family issues that aren't being factored into this discussion.

End of lecture.

Our senior center is far from boring. There are morning exercises, tai chi (or however it is spelled), yoga, ballroom dancing, tango lessons, line dancing, different music and crafts, pool table, bridge and canasta, as well as other games, and a small gym. What makes a difference is having someone who is willing to lead the classes. If no one volunteers or offers their classes for some small fee, then there would be nothing. There are also daily meals on wheels lunches, monthly birthday lunches, monthly short trips, and more. I have to admit I wouldn't be able to tolerate hanging out there all day every day, but some of the older people do. They have companionship and things to do, which is what they are looking for.

Jessie, you raise an interesting issue - some senior centers are in fact better than others. As I think about where to move as I age, I'm checking out various senior centers in the area for potential support. There are 2 in very good communities which have an excellent range of support and activities. One of the cities even has its own fitness center with nominal fees.

My own city is displaying hostility toward seniors, if not all residents who don't tow the line established by what I consider somewhat of a military junta.

A few days ago I watched only a limited portion of a broadcast city council meeting, during which one of the elderly resident speakers plead in vain for a more liberal lawn cutting policy. One of the city council members (who I was told was one of the ones chosen by a specific political party in a move to upset control by the then mayor and other council members) stated emphatically that the policy is a maximum height of 6" for lawns on improved property. Anything over that results in a notice to cut the lawn.

The city's policy is that the lawn MUST be cut back to 6" within one day (yes, that's just ONE day). The city makes no distinction between dry or wet weather. (Get out your cleats and umbrellas and figure out how to mow in the rain if not severe T-storms! Anyone know how to add a canopy to a push mowe??). Faiing compliance, a citation is issued.

A second failing to get the lawn mowed can result in mandatory court appearance.

I was so angry as I thought how totally draconian this attitude is. No resident, especially an elderly person, needs to be put through this torture.

Given this attitude, I never even would venture to the senior center. I'd probably be fingerprinted and GPSed so they could monitor me to see how often I mowed the lawn.

Amott, I am speaking from my side of the issue being the "daughter" and doing all the chauffeuring work.... do you know if your daughter is keeping up with her own doctor/dentist appointments? I wouldn't be surprised if she isn't. Helping our parents coming and going to the doctors it gets to a point where if we see one more waiting room and one more patient application to fill out we will scream. Thus, we ignore our own health.

As for the car, I have to use my parents vehicle which I describe as a cruise liner on wheels, which I feel so very unsafe driving because it was made for someone over 6 foot tall, not my 5' frame... I cannot see out the side view mirrors as there is no way to reposition them on the car itself, so I am driving blind, thus I panic big time. I have to use my parent's car because Mom can't climb up into my vehicle. If my parents had moved to the retirement village, the village supplies it's own transportation.

amott, I don't want your daughter to be going through what I have been going through, thus the reason I am bringing forth these items now, while you are able to make clear choices for your future.

Oh, my Dad is trying to downsize all his 3-ring binders and papers for the past 2 years, and hasn't made any headway. Just recently he tossed out his physics homework from college :P My parents, in their 90's, will never leave their large home.

Hey, FF, I still have the term papers I wrote for my Econ classes and all my math class homework assignments. It amazes me when I read them that I could ever be that smart! I'm sure not now!

GardenArtist, I know what you mean :)

It took me years to donate or toss out my text books... they were just too good to give away, plus I never knew when I might needed to reference a book... like that ever happened :P

My Dad has a ton of newspaper clippings. I bet, as we speak, he is now cutting out the one where CVS is planning on buying Target's pharmacies.

freqflyer: We make appointments only every other Wed, so she has time for herself. I'm very careful to not make her feel obligated. I had another lady that I was using, but the daughter got jealous. My husband has a man who often takes him around town, but again, the daughter was jealous. She wants to control us, not help us. Because of all the negative things I read on here about child helping a parent, I hesitate to allow her to take control. I don't want her to resent us the way some of you seem to do your parents.

Ouch! Or should I say, touché…

It's quite true you can't win. If you make your own arrangements she's going to worry about whether they're good enough/safe enough/110% risk-free, and if you rely solely on her she's going to feel put upon. I have to admit that before I started looking after her full-time, I'd have been a lot happier if my mother had submitted all proposals for activities, holidays, purchases, catering and voluntary work to me for prior approval. I never knew *what* she'd get up to next..!

Anita you are quite right to be guarded about relinquishing control. Your daughter can't help worrying (I'd guess, rather than being jealous as such) but she's going to have to get used to it. And as long as you're in charge of your own decisions, the two of you, don't be too hesitant to remind her that she's not the boss of you yet - kindly, though, because "she MEANS well…" as my mother used to sigh.

amott6, I give you credit coming on the forum and posting as the "elder". I bet many of us here wish our parent(s) would have done the same thing.... to learn all the pros and cons.... and how their grown child(ren) are dealing with the parents declining years, as this is new territory for all of us.

We have senior citizens taking care of their much older parents. Amott6, I am just a few years younger than you are and I really believe my parents think I am still 25, full of energy, ready to go on a drop of a hat, and have the strength to run out and buy 30 bags of 20 lb mulch like I use to do. But that ship had sailed some time ago, yet I will still get such request. Even waving my own Medicare card and AARP membership card doesn't help it to sink in :(

I wished I would have found this website 6 years ago, I would have set boundaries back then, as now trying to set boundaries has resulted in unpleasant telephone conversations, stress, and a lot of guilt thrown my way.

To make this all work, it has to be a win-win for everyone involved.

Gardenartist, I saw a news report the other day on Facebook about four boys who cut an elder woman's grass to keep her from being arrested. Those kids were so cool. I couldn't believe the city would have even considered arresting someone her age for such a thing. Your story reminded me that, although there are real dummies out there, all it took was 4 kids to show him how off track they were. You go, boys!

Back in the old days there used to be a few people who were so strict and so, so judgmental, wanting things done their own way. We used to say they had a corn cob stuck up their bum. Now the world seems to be full of people with corn cobs stuck up there. And they've convinced otherwise sane people that a corn cob suppository is a good thing.

Jessie, your analogy lent some well needed humor to the situation. For the first time I managed to find the situation amusing.

Can you imagine arresting someone for not cutting their lawn, when in fact cutting less often is better for the planet? Some people just don't understand that all this obsession with gasoline powered devices isn't helpful.

I think you've hit on an important issue in society - being too judgmental, whether it's the height of a lawn, how someone dresses, or someone's religion if it's not mainstream.

I've been thinking of how we as elders in this community can create a "rapid response force" for grass cutting. I was thinking of contacting some of the local communities that do have good senior support to see if they have lawn cutters they could refer.

I actually did this when I needed to find someone to cut my father's lawn. I learned that lawn mowers are in high demand in this area - apparently their business has increased exponentially from prior years.

Was there any information on how these young men got together to form a help brigade?

There was talk of how the band of boys came together to do good, but I don't remember what it was now. The boys were from Reisel near Waco. TX is normally so laid back, but there has gotten to be more and more corn cobs out there.

We have a lot of clover in our back yard right now. People would say we need to mow to get rid of all those weeds. But when I see the honey bees going flower to flower, I know that it is a good thing. We get so afraid in the US of having lawns that don't look like golf courses. And then we wonder where all the honey bees have gone.

Right now many of them are enjoying my back yard. Maybe if we quit mowing so much and stopped pulling down all the honeysuckle vines, we would see more honey bees about.

oops this sounds like me--well meaning, I push for my parents to go to the senior center too. I see they are together 24/7 with little outside stimulation or contacts, except me and occasionally their grandchildren. Few friends or other relatives ever bother to stop by. I thought they should socialize or "just get out of the house" other than for doctor visits. Maybe I'm off base but honestly I can't imagine being stuck with only 1 other person day in and day out every day of the year! (maybe that's why I'm divorced lol)

My mom is the one with Alzheimer's but my dad is still very much "there" and lively. It would be for him too, I would think? My mother can walk with a walker well, carry on a conversation too (as long as you realize she won't remember a thing said after 5 minutes). Why not go and enjoy a concert, mingle etc. I don't think my mother could play a game with her attention span but surely there might be other things of interest. Maybe they have a choir etc.

Anyway, I'm feeling a bit sheepish now. Maybe I'm wrong for pushing them to go. In any case, they haven't. My mother says she has no interest and my father doesn't seem to have any either and since he's the one who drives, I guess they aren't going no matter what I say.

I love your post. We're seeing the other side of the equation!

Dear amott6: I'd like to add a little to this topic. First, I think your daughter is just concerned for you and is trying to find things that would be good for someone your age. Even though you don't like the activities, you could try something else instead. If you use walkers, maybe you could walk outside where you live. My mom had a walker (one of those with a seat and basket), and she loved just getting out and walking around her apartment complex (until she got dementia - then could not even live by herself anymore), but even when she was really sick, she would use her wheelchair (she pushed with her feet) to get around. There are a lot of things out there for people to do, you just have to look for them. Some people don't have anyone that cares about them (I saw plenty in the nursing facility where my mom was towards the end of her illness), and I'd say you're very fortunate to have someone who is trying to help out (even if it's not quite the things you like). I hope you don't mind my voicing my opinion. God bless and good luck with all of this.

Dear Amott. I read through your posts and it seems that you and your husband are very well taken care of with the services you have arranged. Meals, upkeep of home and garden, medical attention and activities you enjoy. I researched LBD and see that Al has issues that will decrease his ability to enjoy his radio sometime in his future. I don't blame him for wanting to continue with the hobby HE chose rather than rolling down to hang out with people he doesn't know or pursue activities he doesn't enjoy. I assume his condition is manageable at this point or your daughter would not want to put you through having to take him out on your own when he could have problems that would be difficult for you to manage outside the home. There will be time enough to take away the things that are important to him. I hear you saying that you would love going to an ALF if your husband would go. I imagine you are thinking that this is your husbands time but as the sole caregiver you know that your burden will be heavier as his disease progresses. You've reduced your personal belongings. You are ready to sell the house and move to assisted living. I see you as independent, responsible and not dependent on your daughter at all. Rather it feels like she is trying to control you and wants to make sure you don't move by trying to make you embrace the amenities near you now. Perhaps she's concerned about the cost of the ALF and doesn't want you to sell your home. Regardless of her reasons it is still your life to live. It sounds like you have given in on her jealousy issues with allowing her to take you to the dr instead of going with your friend. I'm guessing there is a control issue between the two of you. But back to your question. How to make her back off. I think a real visit where you sit down and discuss how she feels and how you feel, where you listen to her concerns and she listens to yours. I doubt the problem is really about the senior center. Your husband is the one stopping your move to ALF is what I'm hearing and his view matters. But you and he have to work that out to both your benefit. Your daughter is supporting him by wanting you to stay put. You are not dependent on your daughter at all it sounds like to me. Her anxiety about what happens to you is something she needs to deal with. She's your daughter. You care about her feelings but you are still able to make your own decisions. Do you try to run her life? Tell her how to spend her time? Perhaps the visit will take some of the discord out of your family. A therapist, a visit with your pastor or other mediator type that could assist in a conversation might be brought in. Not someone who is biased to you or to her. Failing all that or perhaps in addition, perhaps a visit with an attorney to help protect your interests and intentions about how you want to prepare for this stage of your life might be considered. Let her know you hear her. You appreciate her. Then firmly let her know that this space of time has meaning to you and Al as a couple ( if that's the case ) and she is not adding to your enjoyment by her constant nagging. Good luck.

Amott, your description of the Senior Centre's activities raises an important issue that I have observed when trying to motivate mom to participate in social activities for the elderly - i.e. the tendency to staff of these programs to relate to participants in a child like manner. It is a very difficult balancing act to behave towards seniors with cognitive or mental health impairments respectfully as an adult while making accommodations for their level of functioning. My siblings and I encouraged mom to attend an intake/orientation session at a day program for people with Alzheimer's, which included sitting in for an hour on the group activities. When we left the centre she was in tears and outraged at how they treated her like a child, and she refused to go back. She felt so patronized and humiliated. She is not a "joiner", as she puts it, and does not like to be in groups. Her shyness, introverted personality and profound hearing loss (of which she is extremely self conscious and fears appearing stupid) adds to the dilemna of wanting to withdraw socially while at the same time being extremely lonely, bored, depressed and anxious about being alone. I think these day programs need to have activities and formats that are dignified, respectful and relevant to the age of the population they serve. It would not change my mother's mind but would motivate other lonely seniors who do enjoy the company of others.

I am one of the younger folks at our local senior center. I started taking my mom there for lunch two days a week. They have activities but there are also pick up games of cards and people chatting and talking about the goings on in town. We now both have friends (some in common and some separate) and look forward to going. Unfortunately mom's health has not allowed her to begin the regular visits again but we get her there when we can. And people always ask me how she is doing. At 91 she has outlived very many of her friends so nice that she can make new ones and look forward to coffee and a snack. The lunches aren't the best but $2 and good company...you can't beat it.

Perhaps you could drop in and check it out...see what else there is to do...or talk to some of the folks and find out how they get there. I have rediscovered a love of art and now teach various art classes...usually without mom. It has been great...who knew

glasshalffull: I have been there many, many times. We were members of a band that played there and at 9 nursing homes around the county until our health failed. We know the workers & the people who go there. We can't get there for lunch so we have meals-on-wheels delivered. I'm glad it worked out so well for you. It doesn't for us.

Globetrotter, I understand and share your perspective on activities at senior centers. I've seen that all too often, although I will say that one of the activities at a local center does have a woodworking program, a far cry from the passive activity of playing bingo.

That's one of my primary concerns as well - the activities are not stimulating or engaging; they're passive. Picking up little chips and putting them on squares doesn't evoke much intellectual interest.

Several years ago I was searching for different groups with which to become involved, groups that spanned a range of ages and activities. I found a local branch of the AAUW (Assn. of American University Women). The general topic of the meeting was foreign relations, with the very dynamic and intellectual conversation trending off to specific areas, such as a particular Asian country.

One of the women was at least 10 if not more years older than I; others were my age. Everyone who contributed had an interesting perspective to share.

I also found a similar environment when I joined a literature club.

Those are the kinds of activities I'd want if I went to a senior center. Shelve the bingo chips!

I do realize that it's very difficult as well for planners because they don't know the capabilities of seniors. It's a challenging task to find appropriate activities that span all levels of senior abilities.

I'd like to respond to GardenArtist's comments about bingo at Senior Centers. Some people DO like bingo. I know that there are others out there with other interests as well, but just because a few may not like it doesn't mean you should "shelve" it. There seems to be a need for more of a variety of activities at Senior Centers. I'm sure the activities directors do the best they can to meet all needs, but their time I'm sure is limited as well as the things they have to work with. If there are some who don't like what is being offered, maybe they could volunteer to lead a workshop, class, or group in the field they're interested in. I'm sure that the senior centers would love to have more help.

Central, good points, and an insightful assessment of senior's needs. I think it is difficult to meet varying levels of needs and interests, as well as assess what those needs are. When I was teaching adult ed courses, that was one of the issues that had to be addressed, as well as levels of experience. It wasn't easy.

Thanks for making my points more clear and balanced - perhaps I was a bit too "tongue in cheek" in my comments about bingo.

Some people *must* like bingo, or a massive worldwide industry would wither on the vine. It's just I've just never met one.

The best care home group I ever had anything to do with regularly canvassed both residents and day centre service users and asked them what they would like to do. Then as long as there was a quorum for a given activity, it would be arranged.

My solution for not lawn-mowing often enough for the stockholders of the Scott Grass Seed company is this: post a sign in your yard that you are letting the grass re-seed itself to be more "green". (There's a joke in there!)

We have people all over our community who have signs saying they are letting their yard return to native plant species to support butterfly and bee populations.

Interesting discussion. Years ago I was trying to get my mom to go to the local senior center for some social interaction. She didn't want to go because "all they do is sit around and talk about their physical problems." So I suggested she go anyway and when someone got started on a complaint say "That's just terrible, I fell great, too bad for you!" We got a good laugh but she never did go.

Sandwich try that in our small city and Codes with be round with a tape measure and a citation