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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
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They say they can't afford to pay when they really can afford it? Thanks for any answer you can provide. What will happen with their money if they won't use it to take care of their self.
You or your niece might like to contact the local Office on Aging. I expect they will recommend some sort of home assessment, looking at living conditions and care needs; but in any case I'm sure they'll have useful advice to offer.
If your brother and sister in law live near you, the website is http://www.richmondgov.com/officeonaging/ and the contact telephone number is: (804) 646-1082
As your niece has POA for your brother and his wife, it is part of her job to talk to them about managing their money and using it properly for their care. It isn't unusual for people to become very anxious and negative because at first sight the numbers can look so alarming that you can see why one might think "Heavens! I'll never be able to manage that!" And, in addition, illness, fatigue and slipping back in time to when ten dollars was a lot of money can all distort perspective. How is your niece getting on with her role, do you think? Has she said much about it?
My Niece lives in Florida and only comes up when the NH has a meeting concerning my Brother. My Brother/Wife has 4 children and they do not visit them because of things that were done in their childhood. What I have heard lately my Brother/wife has always been this way about money matters. I says there is no way you can help someone that won't help their self. I have learned they want every thing for free. They don't eat right but when you take them something to eat they eat like they are starved. I have told her sister that helps the wife to quit carrying food to her chair because she needs to get up and walk as much as possible because of fluid build up around her heart but she just keeps laying in her chair all day. I don't know what more I can do except notify the places you say to call. Thanks for your help and *GOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS*
I assume he has been in the NH for rehab after some medical event/hospital stay? If so they will have stipulations for his release home unless they deem him able to care for himself and it doesn't sound like that would be deemed safe. You or family doesn't have to be the bad guy let the doctors be that but someone needs to make sure they (the doctors, NH releasing him) are very clear that his wife needs as much if not more help than he does and isn't able to care for him alone and they don't have anything else set up for help and supervision. They should at the very least order VNA services who will then oversee what is and isn't happening at home but whatever the set up don't you or any other family member agree to say you will be taking on more responsibility than you are or let your brother claim people will be helping on a daily basis that wont. A hospital and or rehab stay is probably the best opportunity for making sure they get some help if they are so resistant because they can't release a patient to an unsafe environment or to a situation that they know will have them landing back in the hospital or worse. You just need to make sure the medical professionals understand the real situation and if they allow him to go home without help set up, so be it, there isn't much you can do until the next trip to the hospital. The other suggestion would be to "help" your brother go home by helping him set up the assistance the doctors feel he and his wife need...this way the necessities can be introduced and hopefully implemented with your help but not at your insistence. This might help his money fears too since Medicare and insurance should pick up at least some if not all of home assistance at least for a bit and they get's them accustomed to having it.
Hi Lymie61, Thanks for your reply to my question. I am new at this so I don't know what the VNA Services are or who to contact. I would appreciate very much if you would explain where to go and what I can do for my Brother and his Wife. *GOD BLESS* You Always* for caring about other people enough to take the time with us strangers. Have a *BLESSED DAY*.
Pop62105, you had mentioned a few minutes ago that your brother [90] is in a nursing home and will be discharged to go home soon.
Who is your brother's medical Power of Attorney? The Power of Attorney can step forward and let the nursing home that there isn't anyone who is capable of caring for your brother at home. You mentioned that your brother's wife is also 90, and neither of them can stand for more than 5 minutes.
Even if your brother and his wife are still sharp at their age, I begin to wonder. What they are deciding isn't safe for them as you had also mentioned. So they are not thinking clearly at this point.
Ok, they can stay home but only if they hire caregivers to help them. Best would be 3 shifts working 8 hours per day. One live-in would get exhausted, and they would be back to square one. Yes, it will be very expensive. Moving to Independent Living or Assisted Living would be far less expensive.
As for using money, bet your brother has one of the first dollars ever printed, like my parents probably had, and boy they would not part with it :)
Sometimes you can get one spouse to reconsider in home services to help the other spouse easier than they can consider accepting services for themselves. Avoiding injury can sometimes be a factor too. "Mom really shouldn't be up on a ladder washing windows anymore because a fall could be really serious at her age." Sometimes a discussion about how limited in home services can extend the time the couple can remain independent in their home along with highlighting how much less expensive supportive and limited in home care is than LTC. The analysis that helped my mother was seeing there was enough money to support my father remaining in MC for 10+ years which was much longer than he was expected to make it (he died 3 and a half years later). Maybe start with specific services you think would be helpful, how you think the service would help, and a cost breakout for each would support having a more fruitful discussion. Please remember that even when the person doesn't seem open to the suggested services, often they will think about what you have said. One extended family member was very against any in home services until his wife had a scare with her heart; then he turned to me at the hospital and asked how quickly he could engage someone to help with the housework and cleaning.
Pop62105, unfortunately there isn't anything one can do if a couple is refusing caregivers. I went through that with my parents, mainly my Mom. Nope, nada, never. No strangers in her house... [sigh]. My Dad was willing and that just created arguments between the two. And like the couple you are mentioning, my parents could afford caregivers.
It's all denial on that couple's part. The husband feels he can still take of himself and his wife. Nothing you say will change their minds.
Sadly, one will have to wait until there is a medical emergency where one has to go to the hospital, then into rehab, then into long-term-care. Thus, leaving the other spouse behind on their own. Sometimes one of the spouses really does want caregivers to come in, but doesn't want to rock the boat if the other spouse is against it.
As for their savings if they don't use it, it all depends on how their Wills are written. If they have no Wills, then Probate Court will decide who gets the money.
Just the last sentence - virtually all jurisdictions have legislation about who inherits on an intestacy (no will), and anyone who wants it to be different it has to prove dependency etc, just as if they were objecting to a will. A 'Probate Court' can't give it to the Cat's Home!
Hi Joann29, Thanks for the great advice. I have no idea where to turn or what to do. I have never been in this situation before. I have never seen anyone not willing to take care of their self before if they had the means to do so. My Brother and his wife are 7Day Adventist but no one from Church comes to visit because they don't trust anyone in the house. Her sister has been coming over and doing their bills, taking them to the Dr. ,washing clothes. getting groceries in STAYING AROUND 3HRS a day the rest of the time they are by their self. I appreciate any answers you give me on what I can do to get someone to check this out and make them get some help in to take care of the situation. His wife has congestive heart failure , blind in one eye, and does not move out of her recliner all day long. they don't take their meds because they don't want to pay for refills. What do you do with people who don't want to pay for anything. Their Daughter who is POA says they have the money to get someone in to help. Thanks for taking time to listen & read my messages and replying. *GOD BLESS*
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If your brother and sister in law live near you, the website is http://www.richmondgov.com/officeonaging/ and the contact telephone number is: (804) 646-1082
As your niece has POA for your brother and his wife, it is part of her job to talk to them about managing their money and using it properly for their care. It isn't unusual for people to become very anxious and negative because at first sight the numbers can look so alarming that you can see why one might think "Heavens! I'll never be able to manage that!" And, in addition, illness, fatigue and slipping back in time to when ten dollars was a lot of money can all distort perspective. How is your niece getting on with her role, do you think? Has she said much about it?
Who is your brother's medical Power of Attorney? The Power of Attorney can step forward and let the nursing home that there isn't anyone who is capable of caring for your brother at home. You mentioned that your brother's wife is also 90, and neither of them can stand for more than 5 minutes.
Even if your brother and his wife are still sharp at their age, I begin to wonder. What they are deciding isn't safe for them as you had also mentioned. So they are not thinking clearly at this point.
Ok, they can stay home but only if they hire caregivers to help them. Best would be 3 shifts working 8 hours per day. One live-in would get exhausted, and they would be back to square one. Yes, it will be very expensive. Moving to Independent Living or Assisted Living would be far less expensive.
As for using money, bet your brother has one of the first dollars ever printed, like my parents probably had, and boy they would not part with it :)
It's all denial on that couple's part. The husband feels he can still take of himself and his wife. Nothing you say will change their minds.
Sadly, one will have to wait until there is a medical emergency where one has to go to the hospital, then into rehab, then into long-term-care. Thus, leaving the other spouse behind on their own. Sometimes one of the spouses really does want caregivers to come in, but doesn't want to rock the boat if the other spouse is against it.
As for their savings if they don't use it, it all depends on how their Wills are written. If they have no Wills, then Probate Court will decide who gets the money.
Office of Aging too.