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You tell him exactly what was told to you previously.
He can not stay at his current home, he needs more care than they or you can provide.
Ask the Social Worker at the hospital to arrange placement for him, possibly at the same facility where his wife was. When it is time for discharge he can go to "re-hab" there and then remain there.
You could tell him it is until the Doctors feel that he is well enough to return to his previous residence if you wish but he will remain there as his decline will continue.

Next..You and your Husband have to back off. Do not run every time he "needs" something. You both have your own lives to live. The staff where he resides should be caring for his needs as far as the agreement with the residential facility goes. Once he requires more care than they can manage it is time to "move on". A Memory Care facility will be able to handle him as they know how to deal with all types of personalities.
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FOG=fear, obligation, guilt! Look that up here, it helped me tremendously.

And me saying, "I can't be caregiver anymore", to a sociol worker when my Dad was in hospital with UTI. Kinda same mental ugly games that your husband is in. Finally hit bottom and bowed out.

Keep it here...AC saved me!
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Your husband needs to talk to his father's doctor and get a procedure going to have him sent to the nursing home. It can be done. It's sort of like a commitment. There's nothing to keep you from expressing your concerns to the doctor, even if the doctor can't talk about his father's health care. Met with my mother's doctor before one of her appointments and explained what was going on. The doctor can then discuss issues with your FIL w/o even mentioning you two. Please give it a try...and don't let him push you around and manipulate you. Hugs and prayers....
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Is he capable of showing any type of threatening or violent outbursts because if that is case then a paid caregiver will not stay and if he is not able to walk then it could become an emergency situation of where to put him immediately so maybe this is time to do homework so there is,a plan
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JoAnne, I think the facility speaking up may be coming. That’s what happened with MIL. I hope so, honestly. It will be much easier to deal with if it’s “them” instead of “us”.
We are in Canada so we don’t have an Office of Aging, I don’t think. We are hoping the CCAC (our agency in Ontario) will be able to help us. Thank you.
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GardenArtist, thank you for your post. I have suggested counseling to my husband; unfortunately he has issues surrounding it. I mentioned that MIL had mental health issues. Truthfully, she suffered from depression for the last 25 years of her life. It was severe. She was institutionalized several times when my husband was still a young man. She became less aggressive as time went on but he was left with a deep distrust of the mental health profession. He adored his mom.
Your suggestion to focus on who would take care of his father or of us if something were to happen to my husband is a good one. I will try that. At the end of the day I know it is my husband’s responsibility to make changes. But like a wife who won’t leave an abusive husband, changing a relationship with an abusive parent is hard. My husband is a kind and giving man. I think a lot of people who grow up with domineering parents are. It’s hard to erase a lifetime of grooming.
Thanks again.
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JoAnn, good point about the liability issue.
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I am surprised the Senor facility hadn't spoken up. Yes he is competent but he is a liability to them. Next time he is hospitalized tell them he can't go back to his apt. Its not an AL. That at thid point he can no longer care for himself and you are no longer capable. Also realize that UTIs are very dangerous for men and being catherized doesn't help. UTIs do a job on the mind. Maybe get Office of Aging involved. They have the authority to move him.
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Molly, a few of your comments really stand out in terms of the existing situation and possible solutions:

"If my husband backs away from him, he will sob and say he is sorry, then start the whole cycle again." Controller, manipulator, conniver, that FIL is (thinking in Yoda speak this morning).

"The real issue is getting my husband to step back. I can’t force him. And when you have lived under the thumb of a tyrant for so long, it’s difficult to wriggle your way out. Especially at middle age."

'The h**lfire he will rain upon my husband will be epic. My husband is terrified and filled with guilt." Ask yourself and your husband why he will feel guilty; he's gone out of his way and made workstyle changes to help FIL. He's trying to find a safe place for him, and that's the important issue.

He could legitimately feel guilty if he abandoned FIL, but he hasn't. He should feel PROUD that he's been so supportive despite lack of appreciation.

Let's face it - FIL is NOT going to change; only you and your husband can change, to protect yourselves, your marriage and your son.

As you realize, your husband is really the key to the situation, but the long-term domination will be difficult for him to challenge, especially since FIL is now so dependent and in need of help more than ever.

However, as you also realize, you and your husband don't need to be that help; it's available elsewhere.

I think the first steps are those you're already taking, but also think of ways you can support your husband even more so he isn't guilted into continuing the subservient allegiance to his father.

I personally haven't had much respect for the psychological profession, although others in my family have, but perhaps some counseling could help reinforce the fact that your husband has been subordinated by his father, that he needs to recognize his own worth (and that's a major issue), and understand that he has his own life to consider first.

If he has a major stroke or heart attack, he won't be able to care for his father. And if that happens, he also won't be able to care for his family, including your young son. That might be the issue on which I'd focus.

Sometimes these caregiving situations come down to that - between the "devil and the deep blue sea". It's unfortunate, and I think it can destroy a person's self respect, and complicate an already existing low self esteem created by a dominating parent.

As to your initial comment on caregivers' rights, sometimes I see this as kind of the battle the colonists, women and minorities have fought (and unfortunately are still fighting) over the centuries for equal rights.

Unfortunately this generation is I think in the vanguard of addressing and trying to get recognition for caregivers' rights. (Maybe we should start a campaign for a constitutional amendment?) Too often we're just expected to be Supermen and Superwomen, leaping over dementia, frailty and many other obstacles, and still maintain our own lives.

But the first step is to respect ourselves and demand that our own rights be respected, and unfortunately, that's usually with the people with whom we're the closest, and then the overall medical community.


I think you're on the right path though; get as much support from governmental resources as you can (FIL can't manipulate them), help your husband work through his own subordination issues, and as soon as you're both ready, take the plunge and get FIL in a place where he can be controlled.

(It doesn't hurt to take a few "sick days" along this route to help FIL acclimate to the fact that he's not going to be able to dominate your lives forever.)
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Cwillie, thank you, that is good advice. I have already checked out homes and there are several that are very good. I went through that process for MIL when I was still the primary caregiver for the two of them. Now my husband is in charge and I go over much less frequently, to give my husband a break.
I agree that he is ready for long term care. The issue is his being in this “no man’s land”, where he is unable to care for himself but still considered competent enough to make his own decisions.
Whenever he is released from hospital, they are told that he lives alone. They still let him go. I suppose what we must do is refuse to take him. The h**lfire he will rain upon my husband will be epic. My husband is terrified and filled with guilt.
Hopefully the CCAC will be able to help us. The condo nurses will certainly back us up. I’ve also suggested that my husband and I meet with FILs doctor to explain to her how bad he has become. It’s so difficult. No one wants to be responsible for taking away a persons rights. I read on another thread about a woman who is relocating for her job and a social services has told her that she cannot. It’s just a mess. Thanks for writing.
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Molly, he sounds ready for long term care. If that is suggested one bit of advice I have for you, the people from your LHIN will try to pressure you to list several choices for nursing homes, but no matter how desperate you feel don't put anything on that list that list that you haven't checked first and feel is a realistic possibility, once you get the call that there is an opening there is not time to hesitate as an answer yes/no is needed within 24 hours. Something else they might not tell you, if you have already filled out the papers requesting long term care you can still change the places you have selected and remove ones that arn't suitable.
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Eyerishlass, I agree with you. I know we have to make the change. It’s just hard. If change was was easy,I’d be 20 pounds lighter! Hahaha.
Hopefully the CCAC will be able to help us. The real issue is getting my husband to step back. I can’t force him. And when you have lived under the thumb of a tyrant for so long, it’s difficult to wriggle your way out. Especially at middle age.
Again, I really appreciate your responses.
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Lkdrymom, I agree that it is us who let him treat us this way. At this time it’s not really me anymore, since my husband is doing the majority of the work. I think there’s a big difference between knowing what needs to be done and actually doing it, though.
CTTN55, it is my husband who is picking him up from the hospital at this point. I have worried that he was going to move his father in with us in the past. Both in-laws lived with us for a few months in between selling their home and moving into their condo. It was a nightmare. Living with that man is just unbearable. However, my husband is aware that that is not an option. I have told him that if his father moved in, I’m leaving. The more pressing concern now is that my husband will leave our home to move in with his father. He has suggested that he might.
My husband has an appointment with the CCAC today to discuss his father. We live in Canada and that is the organization we deal with here for help with elders. Hopefully, they will be able to tell us what we need to do. Thank you so much for your answers.
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You and your husband are giving FIL the right to control your lives. You've handed it over to him. There are no boundaries. You've given him an inch and he's taking a mile on a regular basis. You can't depend upon his behavior to change so you and your husband have to change your own behavior.
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"I suppose my question is this: why do the rights of the caregiver matter so little?" I often wonder this, too. And I'd add "and health." 40% of caregivers of elders with dementia die before their charges. Society expects family (usually women) to step up and take care of the elders, even though the elders live longer, sicker lives. We need a "caregiver liberation (lib)" movement!

Lkdrymom has the answer above for you. Who is bringing him home from the hospital? Your husband, right? And he tells the medical professionals that he is the caregiver. This needs to stop, and what is suggested above needs to be done. But will your husband ever get on board with this plan? I see a crisis point coming to your marriage when FIL can no longer live alone, and then your H might agree with FIL that he needs to move in with your family?
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He runs your life because you let him. And if he is competent he gets to decide how he lives. Next time he needs a trip to the ER you might want to inform the doctors of his living situation and tell them it is unsafe for him to go home and that you are unable to care for him. They will figure out a placement for him.
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Gladimhere, thanks for your response. We have hired caregivers in the past, he either refuses to let them in or berates them until they quit. One refused to come back after spending only two hours with him! Poor girl, I don’t blame her. The issue with backing off is his physical frailty. He falls regularly. He has been sent to the hospital twice this week after falling, they just send him home. He is emptying his catheter bag into pots by his bed or recliner because he feels too weak to go to the bathroom. I have limited my involvement since my husband started caring for him a year ago. It is very difficult for my husband to do so since their relationship is so toxic. Also, he loves his dad despite it all. It’s just a hot mess.
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Molly, good vent! FIL, you are right, will only get worse. It will become more difficult as he progresses in his disease. He can still use a phone. So, he is not that far along yet. It is your and hubby responsibility to establish firm boundaries. Stop catering to fil. Do not answer the phone each time he calls. What about getting him a caregiver to spend a few hours with him a few times a week. Would that be possible?

FIL is running your life, correct, but you need to stop letting him.
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