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He - and you - have to decide on a few issues:

1 - Does he want to stay married if he doesn't live with his wife? Probably not, Help him to a "no fault" divorce lawyer to end that drama.

2 - Do you intend to care for his ever increasing health needs? Maybe, but talk with your family about it and other options: adult day care on non-dialysis days, assisted living, skilled nursing care at home of facility...

3 - Do you intend to continue footing the bill for his needs until he passes? Doesn't seem fair. Since he has insurance and some money coming in, he should pay for as much of it as he can. Decide with him what he should cover and what you will supplement.
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I would revisit the agreement, say your family were willing to step in temporarily, but your resources (both, time, emotional, space and money) are finite and it’s time to come up with plans for the future. Dad’s health is stable. He now has a different perspective to make choices about dialysis. HIS CHOICES. You’ve made your decision. Your family needs their home back, would love to support in a more hands off way. What would he like tk do? Staying as it is is now off the table. Tough conversation to have, but approach as a parent doing what is right and best for his family unit. Detach with love,
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You know you're being used. Worse, your wife and your family are sacrificing for this. If you haven't asked her or she hasn't been vocal about it, please ask your wife if this situation is what she chooses. If she is okay with having him live with you, ask her what conditions need to be met to keep her quality of life as she wants. I certainly hope you are already doing the majority of whatever work is required for his care. Her plate is already full (as is yours) with a special needs child.

Ideally he should be paying his own expenses and contributing at least to food for the household. He has income; it's selfish for him to use it strictly to keep his wife out of his hair. If you are wealthy you might not care but if not, your income is needed for your family.

Personally I could not live with this situation, but I realize everyone is different and has their own threshold of what is too much. One last thought, your dad isn't going to get more thoughtful as he ages, just the opposite. Most elderly become more and more self-centered as their world narrows, and for those that were self-centered as a younger person, it's a foregone conclusion.

I wish you the best in working out the right solution.
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Chellyfla Jul 2022
Where’s the data you might site to support your contention that old people become more self centered as they age. There is nothing but bigotry behind that unnecessary, prejudicial remark.
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At the very least, you need to help him transfer his own Soc Sec benefits into a bank account you and he own so at least he will be paying for some of his own care, supplies and room and board.

That might alleviate some of ypur resentment if you do decide to keep him in your home for his own well-being.
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Maybe that is one of the reasons for being estranged from this man in the first place. You stepped in it big time. Were you trying to prove to your Dad that you are a good son? Never go there if what he showed you in the past and you chose to ignore it. People rarely change.

Now you have the choice to unload Dad fast or you can continue with his care.
PS: Your sister was right to stay estranged.
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Call Adult Protective Services and have them figure out where to place Dad as you are done with nursing and he has no where to go and you are NOT financially responsible for him: they will take care of it and apply for Medicaid if he's broke. His legal issues and banking issues need to be addressed too.
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TouchMatters Jul 2022
Yes. Perfect support / advice.
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Absolutely, contact social sec to get his checks sent to an account local to you. Do this yesterday.
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No, you didn't screw up. But, I do wonder WHY after being estranged for so long you decided to do this. If it's not working with dad living with you and he and ur stepmom don't get along, why not look into an AL or a NH? Why should you and your wife suffer because your dad is trying to take advantage of you, and your step mom won't honor her marriage vows-in sickness and in health-
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You are stuck…I am too with my 95 yr old father-in-law. Similar circumstances. We take them in when they are acutely ill cuz we live too far away to manage their care long distance…THEN due to our care with arranging new doc’s a few hospital admissions and then they are off and running with no plan to return home. In my case a brother and sister in law were to take him every 6 mod. But wait now they figure it doesn’t work for them so here we are stuck!
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TouchMatters Jul 2022
He isn't stuck.
He creates a situation where he believes he doesn't have any choice in this matter. He does. His dad can go home to his wife and live in his own house.
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You're managing his expenses right now without him kicking in a dime, so if his check came to him (as it should) that money could be used entirely for his care - to help you and your family care for him. A little housekeeping, etc.

If he and the wife cannot live together, great. But if they live apart each should get their own SS check. Not that difficult to change the address and bank account for his own check to be deposited. Has he ever said why it's ok for the wife to spend both checks? Also, is their house in both names? Has he ever said he wants a divorce or if he plans to live with her again?

A 'little' equity in a house would indicate there is still a payment due, but some equity has been built. You say 'they' aren't interested in living a little closer to where dialysis is more convenient, however it appears he was more than willing to get out of the remote residence and move to where you are. Stepmom may want to stay where she is, but have you asked her what her plan is concerning dad's care? Maybe initiate the conversation with her to get input from her - maybe dad could be part of a group phone call with all of you.

You aren't stuck at all. Now that dad is more stable, talk with him about the extra work your wife (and you) have with him there. Ask if he'd like to see about a facility to move to -- especially since he isn't that keen on getting out of the chair or moving about, and his medical needs could be met. Tell him your own funds are getting tight and you now understand the expenses of living to old age and/or having health problems. If he's not interested in facility near you, he still has the option to return to his wife and home. He does have options and he has a check that needs to be following him wherever he goes.
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NiceGuyInLast: For all intents and purposes, your father appears to be taking advantage of your niceness. It's rather appalling that he's letting you bankroll his expenses, all the while knowing that he has good insurance from a former employer. You cannot continue cleaning up toxic/human waste products that he leaves. His living accommodations must not be your home. In short, you'll have to be less ACCOMMODATING.
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OMG what a stressful situation you are in - he should be giving you all his money and she should keep hers. If you going to do all that work she should not get that money. If you can arrange to get his share of his money you can get a little help.
if you are going to let him stay you should get the money.
you must feel trapped, and it is not fair for the wife who is not doing any work to have his money. Getting his money and an aid in for a few hours would help you.
I wish you the best in getting this very unfair situation in control
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yes contact ss ad get his money he is lucky to have you
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Very little if any compassion in the answers here… Pack him up and sending him back! Get his check! Make him pay!

You are a remarkable person, but you need to live your own life. Talk with a social worker at Adult Services and let them guide you to placement in a care facility.

They will help and get the benefits he is entitled. You may also want to discuss preparing a Will, DPOA, medical POA and living will. Hope all works out. Seniors deserve their last days to be filled with joy.
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MargaretMcKen Jul 2022
The compassion came earlier, in taking Dad in. It got a bit old to be the doormat.

Not all seniors “deserve their last days to be filled with joy”, just like not all of them are going to heaven - according to the Bible. And for all of us, we rarely find that Best Seller entitled “The Joy of Old Age”.
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I am not clear why he doesn't go home to his wife?
Why are you allowing him to continue to live with you, since you are not content with this situation?

You need to put yourself, and your family, first.
If you do not, you will (continue to) resent your dad and continually argue.
If he is of sound mind, it is up to him to make his own choices about dialysis, isn't it (or am I confused by your question).

If he can manage, why don't you let him or why are you putting yourself in a victim situation as if you have to do what is his, and his wife's responsibility?

You are only stuck for however many years if you decide to be.
Why can't you tell him to go home? Why don't you set limits and boundaries, based on your own and your wife's needs? You say he and his wife 'could manage if they tried. . . ' well, why don't you "let" them - or insist on them taking on their responsibilities? If he is having issues with his wife, this is up to him to figure out and decide what to do, isn't it.

Why are you putting yourself in the middle of something you don't want to be in the middle of and don't have to be?

You sound like you feel like a victim as you do not appear to have feelings of self-worth to set boundaries to put yourself and your wife first. Your behavior sounds as if you have a family history of trauma. If I were you, I would get into counseling / therapy as soon as possible to sort out your feelings and decisions.
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NiceGuyInLast hasn't been back in a week now. I think this part of his one response says it all:

"what I'm saying is I don't want him to die; I want him to change. But he won't change. So I either have to keep him comfortable so he'll continue to choose to live, or make him uncomfortable one way or another, which at a certain point will result in him choosing to die. I think many here are saying its his choice so I shouldn't feel bad, but how could you not feel bad about a parent choosing to die? (Painful terminal illness excepted.) Especially if you can prevent it? I would carry that weight the rest of my life. "

He isn't going to do anything to change the situation.

His poor wife!
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2022
I highly doubt the father will just let himself die. The OP needs to grow a set and stand up to the father. Stop allowing him to use the threat of suicide or stopping treatment as a way to get what he wants.
That's abuse and no one has to live with abuse.
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I have an answer. He needs to get a divorce. This frees him up for disability and/or social security along with income based healthcare. It would also qualify him for his own subsidized housing. His wife should not get all the assets and none of the responsibility. That not how marriage works.
Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his desire not to receive dialysis. It is a quality of life issue that each person has the right to determine for themselves.
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Please forgive me in advance if I seem a bit sharp and mean, but I speak plainly and often it can be interpreted as a bit harsh.

Throw your freeloading father who pays nothing, the hell out of your house and send him packing back to his wife.

With all respect to you, why on earth would allow such a situation?

If your father is miserable with his wife, that is for him to sort out not you.

In the meantime while you're finding solutions to your father's situation, DEMAND that HALF of ALL the monthly income that he and his wife have coming in be handed over to you. No more freeloading in your house. Call the wife and tell her that husbands are also entitled to half of everything. Not just wives.
Make preparations to send him home. If your father starts making suicide threats that he'll kill himself if you send him home, call an ambulance and have him commited for a 72-hour psychiatric hold. Tell the paramedics he's threatening to take his life. I guarantee a couple days in a psych ward will stop him using such threats to get his own way.
If he threatens that he'll stop all treatment if he's sent home, tell him that's his choice to do as he wishes, but he cannot live at your house anymore, nor will you allow him to die there.
Then buy the plane ticket and send him home. Either he can work things out with his wife, or he can get divorced. His wife can take some responsibility.
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Completely ILLEGAL for wife to get his SS without him! Report it immediately to SSA
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If he doesn't want to go back to his wife, he needs to divorce her and start receiving his social security so that he can support himself. This "arrangement" is convenient to him and convenient to his wife, but not convenient for you and your family. You've helped him over a hump. He needs to stand on his own two feet now.
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You aren’t stuck unless you want to be. It isn’t fair to you for his wife to take all of the income and you take all of the expense of caring for your dad. I get it that they hate each other. I take it that this is not your mother he’s married to now. You must do something about this even if he continues to live with you. However, it doesn’t sound to me like he’s going to live much longer. You say five years, but I doubt it.
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It’s time for therapy for you. All options seem bleak. You want to change the dynamic, but you don’t like the potential consequences. I understand.

I think you need professional help to help you decide your next steps and to provide you support with the consequences.

Please do it soon or this could permanently affect your marriage.
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I really appreciate getting so many perspectives from everyone who has replied, even if much of it has been hard to hear. I have been considering therapy.

I did speak with my dad a week or two ago about how we can’t go on like this. I told him he needs to talk to his wife to get on the same page about a sustainable arrangement, which this is not. He didn’t say much and I’m pretty sure he hasn’t spoken to her about it. I think he just hopes I am venting and can let it blow over. This weekend my wife is out of town and I will ask him if he had that talk with his wife. If he hasn’t then I will get her on the phone and talk to them together.

Thanks again.
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SnoopyLove Jul 2022
Thank you for the update, NiceGuy! I am pulling for you.
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Nice Guy, it’s good news that you are looking at things differently. One more comment about the ‘conversation’ you are planning. Don’t think of it as a ‘conversation’, think of it as an ‘ultimatum’. In a conversation, you have a respectful exchange of opinions, and you are open to changing your mind. That’s not where you need to be.
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Good news, but, give him some kind of deadline so he needs to take it seriously.
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@NiceGuyinLast, I feel actually sick to my stomach reading of this freeloader situation you are enabling. You use your and your wife’s money for your father’s care, and the funds and care and attention that should be aimed towards your special-needs son is instead aimed towards your selfish, lazy, wily father.

I am sick to my stomach NOT about your situation, nor your father’s, but I am thinking with sympathy of your poor wife who is being taken advantage of, and even more so about your special-needs son, who requires all of your love and effort right now.

You yourself said your child got into your dad’s feces and unwittingly spread it around due to your father failing to clean up properly. Unacceptable. In fact TERRIBLE. This alone shows that your son isn’t getting the needed attention to keep him safe. Fecal contamination of your household surfaces is bad news.

While you lavish all this attention and money on your father, are you considering who is going to do the same for your son when he is an adult who will (presumably) need special care at great cost?

You are destroying your special-needs son’s entire future, not to mention your own retirement, and possibly your wife’s good mental and physical well-being, by wrongly favoring your father.

You need to straighten this out quick.
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NiceGuyInLast Jul 2022
You misread my message. My son did not get into anything, specifically because of the attention we give him. The point is that we have to be even more vigilant because this risk is present. Thank you for your concern though.
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So just a quick check in, since many of you have expressed concern, of which I continue to be appreciative. I have laid it out for my father and told him that he can stay through Thanksgiving, but needs to be moved out after that. I realize this sounds like a long time, but he has many doctors, dialysis treatment etc. to set up, so I am trying to be generous in giving plenty of time for everything to be set up for a smooth transition. My wife is on board with this timeline.

As you might imagine, the stuff has hit the fan regarding the level of drama from my dad and his wife. He is going to go back down south, where they will despise living together and he will struggle to be able to get the medical treatment he needs. From there it seems it will only be a matter of time until he either passes away from lack of treatment, or calls me to say they are divorcing and he needs my help again. I suspect that in the end I will have to subsidize his living expenses to have his own place - he won't be able to afford it on his own and the only other alternative would be to take him in again...which would kind of defeat the purpose of what I am doing now.

It all feels very unsatisfactory, but I think this is just what happens when people fail to prepare for old age. I expect that since this is a caregiving forum none of you reading this really needed another example, but here it is anyway.
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Llamalover47 Jul 2022
NiceGuyInLast: Thank you for your update.
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You are right giving him until Thanksgiving is way too generous. Based on your original post dad will do nothing between now and Thanksgiving to get himself setup to move out and will go back to his wife when your thanksgiving deadline comes around. He will stop all his treatments and you will receive the health emergency phone call in short order.

In your first post you say your own financial predicament is tight so your financing his living expenses is not feasible. You have your own family to take care of.

There is section 8 housing available for low income seniors. But you have to sign up early as there are waiting lists. You cannot be your dads solution financially or for housing anymore.

I suggest having weekly progress meetings with dad about how his lining up things are going and if his plan is to just move back to Florida then you need to consider moving up the time line. There is no reason to delay the inevitable. It's just a waste of your time.

And Florida is old people heaven. There should be plenty of resources he can access and get help from.
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Hi Niceguy,
You do sound like a nice guy who is getting treated badly.
I am in a similar situation with my father and stepmother. My stepmother wants my father just for his money and is not treating him well as he gets older. I feel sorry for you as you clearly have your own family to care for, but it is hard to watch your own father suffer in a situation of his own making.
It is wrong for your stepmother to take your father's money, and offer no money at all to you for looking after him. Can you contact social security and tell them your father is no longer living with his wife? They will probably stop (or cut back) the social security payments then. Or take your father into the office and get the social security money paid into a different account so the stepmother cannot get it.
What does your father want to do? Either he goes back to her or he doesn't.
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Why aren't you demanding his check to pay for his care? You should set a timeline for that. 2 weeks. To bad if his wife gets mad. To bad if she has to move. When he leaves he can take his check with him fir his care. His wife can take him back. If he goes to the hospital refuse to take him back. The social worker can set something up with him and his wife. Tell them you are not taking him back. They have seen that before.
Remember wedding vows? Well there's in sickness written in there. So she needs to step up. Stop being the martyr and taking their life on. The wife should be doing the caring. To bad if they fight. He married HER. You should be saving for your retirement. Not spending it on him.
DEvander that money now. If he says no and it's time for dialysis he better call an Uber. Better get a motel. Better call your wife. Narcissists will make you feel guilty, make you feel shame.
When you were growing up could you lay in bed all day, or skip school week after week? No because there was house rules. You need to get some. Tell him your money is tapped out. Maybe a few days at the motel would make him realize he needs to step up and do something.
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