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As Lealonnie 1 (and maybe others as I haven't look at all the comments yet) recommend: start educating yourself about narcissistic mothers. There is a website called daughterofnarcissisticmothers.com which is very good and there are a ton of videos on YouTube that will really help you.

Yeah, we (those with the narcissistic mothers) are learning late in life. We didn't have the internet. The best we can do is move forward trying to give ourselves a little of the love we never got and never will get from our mothers.
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Weeroo Jun 2020
Thanks, I have signed up for the website and it looks very helpful!
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Did you say your mother is 55? Oh my goodness, that is a young age to become so dependent on you. She could live another 50 years and what all will you be doing for her then?

It is also very young to attribute her actions to dementia or "old age." It appears to me that she is totally working you and it wont get any better for you.

Just remember, the more you do for her, the less she does for herself and the less she'll be ABLE to do for herself. We don't want to be so helpful we make our loved ones dysfunctional.

I know, it's very hard. I often am standing near my 93 yo mom when I see, for instance, her dirty dishes are stacked up so I take them for her.

When I think about how very few things she actually "does" in a day, I realize I'm depriving her of some physical activity that she really needs to be doing just so her body remembers how to move.

Good luck,
Charlotte

P.S. I have assigned my mom a couple of chores she likes to tell others about. (Some times to get sympathy.) It's her job to fold the hand cloths from the laundry and to put away the silverware from the dishwasher tray. If she doesn't get around to doing her chores, I never scold her, I just quietly finish the job. There will always be more to do.
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notrydoyoda Jun 2020
nitsirk9898 said her mother is 85
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You cope by cutting DOWN on all the visits & the phone calls & by recognizing the emotional blackmail routine she's laying on you with FOG........fear obligation & guilt. Check this out:
https://positivepsychology.com/emotional-blackmail/

Your mother is not, by the way, 'independent' at all since YOU are doing the grocery shopping, the finances, the medical appointments & the medications! What does she do 'independently'? Use the toilet? She needs to be in Assisted Living where she is paying others to take care of her. Not wanting outside help but needing outside help is another matter. If you make yourself unavailable, then she has no other choice but to be placed in AL. I've told my mother I work full time for years now so that she thinks I'm not available.......if she thought otherwise, what's left of my life would be even FURTHER ruined by her nonsense.

Check this out:
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/

Once you're able to identify the games mother is playing with you, THEN you can develop a strategy to take care of YOU and deal with HER accordingly. Until then, you think you 'owe' her and you're somehow 'guilty' of not being a 'good daughter' b/c you've been brainwashed & programmed accordingly your whole life.

Wake up and smell the coffee, my friend. Learn from all of us who have suffered with mothers like this for decades. We're not experts, by any means, but we've learned a few tricks along the way to save our sanity!!

Good luck!
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Thank you, you are right. I’ve been programmed my whole life. Sad part is I’ve just figured it out recently. Undoing it is my biggest challenge. Since I have posted my question, I have stepped back. I feel tremendous guilt and feel sorry for her. This is what happens, I get mad and back off. Then I get pulled back in. I am trying to ignore and distract my feelings of “FOG”! Thank you for response, I really appreciate your input. I’m going to check out the link you recommended.
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See a therapist. Set some boundaries with concrete consequences, not to change her which is impossible, but to protect yourself and your sanity. Like others who have dealt with this, you will need a therapist's guidance and support to do this and keep going. I wish you the best.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Thank you for your input, I’m calling a recommended therapist tomorrow. I called her once today, and she started to complain. I said gotta go I was just checking in. I can feel her wrath! Lol
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After going through all the stages with two in-laws and my father, my mother was the only one left. She was just as you describe, and was the only nasty one of all four parents. She nearly destroyed my health, home life, and work before I learned to cope. She even convinced a cousin how bad I was. The cousin would call relatives and staff at the facilities (4 in two years) to let them know I was abusing my mother and stealing her money.
My mother started out like yours, but slowly became meaner until I was actually having physical problems from the stress. I jumped whenever my phone rang. I drank a lot.
I finally learned to not engage her nasty fantasies. You cannot win, and it does not really matter what she believes at the moment.
Limiting the negative contact was really helpful for me. I learned to walk away when I could not stand it, even if we were in someone's office. I announced I could not sit there and listen to more abusive fantasies, then left. Forget politeness, this was self preservation.
You cannot make her happy, and it is not your job to do so. You can only control your own actions.
Here's a dirty little trick I used - Mom, I have to go out of town for work for a week. She never knew otherwise since we use cellphones.
Boring advice - It is very important she have a POA agreement at this point. Things will get very hard and stressful otherwise. If the POA is you, keep detailed records and all receipts.
Be honest with yourself that things will not get better for you unless you make them better. My mother is gone now, but if someone had convinced me to go into self protection mode earlier I would be better off.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I’m POA, she says I don’t know how that happened.🤦🏻‍♀️

Everything is in place and save every stinking receipt. I have five years worth of receipts.

When she is in a good mood I realize now it’s fake and it’s just a set up. Awful to say, I know. Of course her bad behavior is only when it’s just her and I. Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it.
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I had a MIL who people thought was very sweet. She was until she didn't get her way. And the ones who got the brunt of it were the DILs, me being the one who lived in the same town. When Mom started with a neurologist I asked him if personalities change with Dementia, he said no. If sweet, they stay sweet. If nasty, they stay nasty. If sweet and become nasty...they were nasty to begin with just can no longer hide it when the filter's come off.

I do agree that Mom needs an AL. I do agree that you see Mom too much and call too much. I did the daily thing too because Mom was 5 min. up the road. Shevas pretty much into her Dementia by then. We stayed in the common area where there we others to talk with. I never stayed more than 1/2 hour. But if she had been abusive, my visits would have been less. When she went to LTC, it was in the next town so I went every other day. She was well cared for at both.

You said that Mom has been like this all her life. So, she really isn't going to change now, you have to do that. Hope a counselor helps u do this. Good Luck and come back and tell us how things go.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Thank you! Getting her into AL will be another challenge. I have heard that about personality, it stays the same they just can’t hide it. This forum is wonderful, just reading everyone’s input has made me feel better. Thanks again!
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Nitsirk,
OMG! You have a lot of friends here that understand exactly what you're going through!
Many of us have narcissistic parents, but narcissistic Mothers seem to be prevalent.
Through this site I finally learned that my Mother is a textbook narcissist. After lots of online research and advice from folks here, I am (slowly) learning coping skills.
Going "grey rock " has been the most effective (and hardest) thing for me. Easy to find online.
Start with setting small boundaries. Then stick to your guns!!
I know it's hard, but don't engage in arguments with her!! If she is a narcissist, she thrives on!! You will never win!
I am still struggling with my Mom's verbally abusive behavior, however, there are ways to help deal with it.
God bless!
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I’ve been reading about grey rock, and I can see that would be helpful. It will help to get through the immediate crap that is going on until I can get away. Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it!
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I didn't want to suggest AL as it seemed the last move was recent, but yeah, would be more social. Best of all, others are at her beck & call - you become a visitor!

A good Doctor she trusts may sway her.

Otherwise you join that club, *Waiting For a Crises* to move somewhere directly from rehab. I've been a member for years now.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I have been trying to prevent the crisis, but she isn’t! But unfortunately that is what it will come down to. Her doctor helped with the conversation about the move to senior living. Everyone on here is so helpful. Thank you! 😀
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When my sister in law moved in with FIL, he was what we considered independent. Prior to he was living alone, getting his own groceries (small trips at a time), taking care of his own meds, doctors appointments, getting his own meals though most were takeout or dine in restaurants. He really only needed us when he had a surgery and for laundry. His house had been completely overhauled to accommodate him staying there instead of moving somewhere safer. Several lifts installed to facilitate stairs, tons of bars, walkers everywhere, mobility scooter. But he was more or less independent.
SIL and her husband moved in for a number of reasons, one of which was that his falls were increasing.
From there, because she was trying to help, SIL has basically become 24 hour nursing home care. Of the ADLs, he really no longer has a single one with the possible exception of going to the bathroom that he can do without some assistance. And most of the ADLs are completely facilitated by SIL.
I say all of that to say this. Many will take advantage and once you do it the first time, they will expect this everytime going forward. Others have said it, but I'll chime in...boundaries. Her needs do not supercede yours nor do they have to take over your life. You are entitled to your own life and to set the boundaries that you can manage. If she has more needs than can be facilitated in IL, maybe its time to consider AL.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I agree, the more I do the less she does. She should be in AL, but I can’t get her there. She says her next move is back to her house! She is very difficult! When she was in her house she had the same exact complaints, blah blah! I can’t win. Thank you for replying!
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Are you my twin?! My mum is the same - even the same age. She chose to move to AL a few minutes from us three years ago and has made no attempt to make friends or any kind of life for herself there; she has used vertigo as a reason for giving up walking and expects us to provide all her transport and social/emotional needs. And she is seldom satisfied with anything we do, although she favours my husband and treats him as a surrogate for my dad, which causes tension between us. We got carers in for a short time every week last autumn as we were going away and it was all getting too much for us (we're not young ourselves!), and she played the guilt card about paying for it, but this care has kept her alive in coronavirus lockdown when we haven't been allowed into the building (bliss for me, I am sorry to admit). Based on past behaviour and research we now think my mum is a narcissist and she may have mild dementia, certainly cognitive impairment as both mind and body are seizing up from lack of use. We think she is probably depressed and actually took her to the doctor to talk about it, but she managed to evade the issue and nothing changed. She resists any attempts to help her help herself, while expecting others to help her.

We have reduced the visits we make - and she of course complained to my brother about being abandoned. She sees cleaner, hairdresser, carer most weeks so actually has more company than she did in our old family home. I am seeing a counsellor to try to break the deeply ingrained habits of feeling that it is my responsibility to make her happy and I'm a bad person if I don't do whatever she wants (then drowning in guilt because I can't and feel so resentful) - and actually would prefer not to see her at all, as she is now so negative and aggressive about almost everything. I am sadly dreading the easing of lockdown, as she will no doubt expect us to be at her back and call again, but am trying hard to create emotional distance to protect myself.

I find sites like this very supportive, as they make me see that I'm not alone.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Oh my goodness! You are going through the exact same thing. You mentioned things I’m experiencing as well thatI didn’t say. This forum and everyone on it has been a God send. She won’t call me to chat because she says she doesn’t want to bother me, more guilt! Then she calls and says, did you just call? The games!! Now I realize at 55, she has always been this way. I just was not as involved with her as I am now. Narcissist for sure! I am going to set up boundaries and stick to them regardless until it becomes second nature. Feel free to private message me, I appreciate you replying! Thank you!
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I saw a fantastic YouTube video with Teepa Snow with someone playing an early stage person with dementia. I went searching but can't find it, sorry. The Mom was refusing to go to her regular coffee meetup or cards & couldn't really explain why. Teepa explained that the lady may be realising she was not as clear thinking as she was. Couldn't follow the conversation or game so well anymore, was ashamed, so insisted on staying home.

I think she was sending other caregivers away also. But she trusted her daughter. Could be herself with her.

It really helped me as my Mum also refuses all attempts at social groups but is bored at home. When in respite care a lovely smiling staff member coaxed her along.

Later she told me she hadn't done anything all day & when I asked about the group I got 'Oh it was ok I suppose'. But I had seen her (she couldn't see me) smiling, laughing & joining in.

So maybe check if you are the only audience to this *pity me* or not?
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I love Teepa Snow, very informative. I can see some of my mother in what she says. Unfortunately she hosts pity parties with others too. They tell me about it, like I don’t know. Ugh...They look to me to fix things as well. A lot of chiefs and 1 Indian! Me! Thank you for your input!
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You have basically got an octogenarian toddler on your hands. Like a toddler, she is throwing tantrums for attention. Ignore her.

Go two days without contacting her. Then try calling again. If she starts another tantrum, hang up and wait another few days then call again.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
I have never heard of that term, thank you for your input. I appreciate it.
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You've done well rounding all the chores (groceries, bills & appointments) into one day.
But it sounds like your Mother is relying on you for 100% of her social & emotional needs too.

Does her Senior Living have activity groups? Has she joined any? Often they refuse but would actually benefit greatly from more social activities. The Manager may need to get involved, to set some goals to help adjust & connect to her new life there.

To be very blunt: you did not make her old. People just get old (that's what I tell my Mum) & it's not your fault. She may sad, fearful or lonely but these feelings are hers. You can't fix them, only she can. Has she ever seen a Geriatrician or Geriatric Psychiatrist? I believe others on the forum have had success with this kind of help.

It is possible to visit & call less & grow your free time for your own interests instead? Is that something you would like?
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Hi, That’s another problem, she doesn’t make any efforts to adjust. Where she is living is considered independent living. Therefore they post activities in the community building but they do not interact with the seniors. She doesn’t want to see a therapist, I’m that too! Not a licensed one, just hers.
I am going to step back, this seems to be the common advice from everyone. Your advice helps me so much, thank you!
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When we are overly entwined with someone who is too demanding, it may cause us misery and grief. If it’s long-standing, it might not be that easy to just break the cycle. Sometimes, it helps to talk with a counselor who can help us look at things with a different perspective, give us a chance to verbalize our feelings and provide us some tools to help us build new ways to handle the situations. They also can provide support and that’s something we all need at times.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Hi, That is on list today, to set up an appointment with a counselor. She doesn’t show her nasty side to many, so I’m lacking support as well. Thank you so much for replying.
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First she is not independent. You are providing financial, medical, grocery and social support.

You can stop her from keeping track of you by not telling her where you are or what you are doing when you are not with her. It is none of her business what you do with your time.

Daily visits and twice daily phone calls are her way of tethering you to her. Stop and live your life.

When the blame game starts, stop playing, hang up the phone, leave her place. If you do not play she will get mightily Peed off and act out even more, just strengthen your resolve and exit the conversation.

She cannot use you as a punching bag if you remove yourself from her figurative and literal reach.

It is all about boundaries.

Have you done any reading on Narcissists? She sounds like a text book one.

Have you done any reading on FOG, Fear, Obligation and Guilt? It sounds like you have fallen into that trap.

I have not read up on Grey Rock, but several people here are using it as a technique.

It will be hard, but your life is valuable and you deserve peace and harmony in it.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Hi, I just looked up FOG! That’s me! She is definitely narcissist, someone who wasn’t would never be able to have someone jump through hoops like she has “had” me doing. All of the wonderful people that have responded to me has shown me this isn’t normal. When I call her out on it, she gets really defensive. Of course then gaslights and blames me for being upset. I get the old, “see how you are”! Thank you for responding. When I become weak, I’m going to reread all these comments!
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Seniors can act irrational for any number of reasons. Maybe it’s something with her personality or something new. Has she had an evaluation lately? I know that when my LO got dementia she became very difficult. You couldn’t reason with her. And, she’d forget we had spoken, so it was never enough calls in the day. She forgot her medical conditions and would blame me for things I didn’t do. She worried and cried a lot. Someone asked me if she had dementia and I said no way! But, I was wrong. That is what it was. I got her to a doctor where she was diagnosed and later she went on medication for anxiety and depression. It helped her A LOT. The worrying and crying greatly decreased. But, there were still symptoms of dementia.

For me, I learned to adjust my expectations. Rarely can you make seniors, who are suffering with health issues perfectly happy. I asked myself what was reasonable, under the circumstances. Then, I used that as my guide. Setting boundaries and then enforcing them might help. I doubt she can understand or abide by any request to respect boundaries....I’d just make it happen. You are in charge of your life.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
She has been diagnosed with Dementia, so mature me realizes a lot of it is due to that. But.., I’ve seen this same behavior from her most of her life with other people. So as I give her a pass most times, I know in my heart she’s phony. That’s a big part of my struggle. Thank you for replying to me, I need all the advice I can get!!
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One of the reasons my YB built an apartment onto HIS house was that he lives 5 minutes away and it was assumed I would step in as CG when needed.

Sadly, we have found that I actually trigger mother's 'bad spells' by doing the exact things a CG does! I try to clean and keep a clear path for her and she tells all the sibs I steal her stuff and throw it away. Of course they know the dynamic and just listen to her. (No, nobody sticks up for me).

I've had to go gray rock with her, meaning, I only see or talk to her when I can handle it. And that's not very much.

Most of the CG falls to YB and although my sisters would help, he has developed a very twisted relationship with mother and pretty much has her in lockdown mode before the coronavirus lockdown.

Mother turns 90 next week. My sister wants all of us sibs to write her a sweet letter and I...cannot. I will get a card for her, it will be nice, but after some of the stunts she's pulled---I just cannot fake a 'sweet memories' letter. I don't HAVE any, really.

I have not spoken to my mother on the phone 10 times in the past 10 years. And you call yours twice a day??? You're better people than I am.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Oh I have the sibling who doesn’t live around here and is no help. I’ve seen letters from her that the negativity is actually encouraged. My mother told me this was my fate to take care of her, so there it is. The instilled obligation and guilt. I call twice a day because I feel sorry for her. I give you a lot of credit for taking care of yourself, that shows strength to me. I wish I was that strong. We all have a story. Thank you for your input, I need it!
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You may need to reframe your thinking. Many of us hit this juncture when taking on caregiving responsibilities. It starts out as just a little help. Little by little it overtakes your life, and you can’t figure out why because they are “completely independent” except for...

except for meds and dr appointments
except for finances
except for groceries

Look at that list. Even if that really is all you do for her, there is no way that signals an independent person. An independent person would not need to see you daily and THEN have one to two calls on top of all of those things. That is a dependent person for whom the ILLUSION of independence is being propped up by you.

I am sure others will have some pragmatic tips. I just want to encourage you to re-examine what the real definition of being independent means. Once you see the high level of dependence you are supporting and how that ties into the dementia that has been diagnosed, you might be able to more clearly see the options available to move forward.

It is easy to get stuck in the weeds of caregiving. Sometimes, you just have to pick your head up out of those weeds to get a better view of the big picture.
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nitsirk9898 Jun 2020
Thank you very much for your advice, you are correct she isn’t independent at all and very ungrateful.
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Do you really need to visit her daily and call her twice?
Finances can be done online. Grocery shopping can be once every other week. If you set up her meds can she take them on her own? If not maybe assisted living might be in line. Doctor appointments? Can you make them all on one day to lessen the visits?

You need to back away a bit. She abuses you because she knows she can count on you being there. Stop being there all the time. If you are there or on the phone and she gets nasty leave/hang up. It really is as simple as that. You just have to get in your mind that it is ok to do that. You are the one with the power here so start acting like it. You get to call all the shots, not her. If she starts crying tell her you will visit again when she is feeling better and LEAVE. You know she is trying to manipulate you. She gets away with all of this because you let her.
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Isthisrealyreal Jun 2020
Boundaries are the only way to get through this. So well said!
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