What to do about Mom who fakes strokes?

She needs to be seen by a Geriatric Psychiatrist. Meds may help.

Why would you have to pay for an ambulance? Doesn't your mother have Medicare or other health insurance?

I'm more than a bit concerned that you and your father are "diagnosing" an alleged stroke. Do you have medical training that allows you to do this?

Perhaps your mother is faking just to get attention, but I'd err on the side of caution. Unless you have medical background, I don't think it's appropriate to conclude that she's "faking".

It also sounds as if there's some family friction involved so you might want to consider addressing that as well because that might be part of any attention your mother does want to get.

You also might want to educate yourself more on strokes and the symptoms. It isn't always apparent when someone is having one - the symptoms aren't always that obvious and discernible.

You have absolutely no idea whether or not she is faking. Unless she's had MRIs to rule out brain bleeds, you are ASSUMING. TIAs are minor brain bleeds, the symptoms of which often pass in a few days.

Why do you have to call an ambulance, for Heaven's sake? Why are you not making an appointment at the DOCTOR, going with her and describing her symptoms??

Dorthy,
I can certainly relate to your situation, as I have had similar ones. Both of my parents have stress/anxiety/psychologically induced medical problems. It can be frustrating to deal with a person who we believe is being manipulative and disrupting our life, however, there is hope. I would encourage you to hold on to that.

First of all, you don't know what is really going on with your mom.(Even though you may have seen it many times before.) I think it's wise to first rule out other causes and a doctor needs to do that. Are you your mom's POA? Will she allow you to discuss her condition with her doctor? If so, then I would ask him about what could be causing your mom's symptoms. Has she been evaluated by a neurologist? A cardiologist? If they have ruled out any medical reasons, ask her doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. Explain why.

My dad was diagnosed with conversion disorder after seeing multiple doctors and having many tests run. Everything came back normal. I suggested that he see a psychiatrist and his regular doctor agreed and referred him. I was shocked, but he agreed to go. The psychiatrist wanted my input on what I had observed. He had all the symptoms and once he was explained the condition and put on mediation, he improved dramatically! He was having seizures, could't see, couldn't move, dizzy, etc.

There are other illnesses that could be causing your mom's condition. Only a trained mental health professional can make that determination. I have found that it's rarely helpful to blame the patient. Even if they faking, it's due to a mental issue in their mind and they need help. I wish you all the best.

Thank you for your responses.. and yes she's been for MRI's she's been to psychiatrists she's had every test over and over, the Dr's never found anything wrong and dads spent their savings paying what medicare won't cover, she did have one psychiatrists who put her on antidepressants, sent to physical therapy and ordered home health care nurse to come to the house everyday, but that ended when the nurse caught her adding to the grocery list - that she had to walk to the kitchen to do , not to mention she wrote it in cursive while part of her therapy was to teach her to print again using large childs pencil and 1st grades lined paper.. the nurse was so incensed that her time was being wasted when she could be helping someone who really needed rehabilitation that she left, reported mom and funding for her "recovery" was stopped.

As for not calling an ambulance and making an appointment for her - done that, they can't ever find a reason for why she'd act as I described... as for why cant I just put her in the car and take her to the emergency room - she's nearly 190 pounds and me and dad can't carry her to the truck, let alone lift her up in to it take

Okay, so they have ruled out any physical causes for her behavior. Did the psychiatrist ever give her a diagnosis?

What was the relationship like with the psychiatrist and your mom? What is her relationship like with her regoular medical doctor? From what I learned with my parent's conditions, I found that when the symptoms are psychologically induced, there needs to be a VERY good relationship between the doctor and patient. This is crucial to keep the symptoms under control. There is a protocol for this condition and the doctor should know about it. It involves regular doctor visits, agreements between the doctor and patient about monitoring symptoms, phone calls if symptoms pop up, mediation, etc. The goal is to get the patient on a schedule, to avoid 911 calls and ER visits. I would discuss this with her doctors. Maybe they tried.

And it sounds like the therapist in the home wasn't very well informed. People who need therapy need therapy for a reason. They aren't perfect and I would expect a patient to make mistakes, have relapses and generally need my help. That's why she's there. I don't understand quitting a patient because they do something incorrectly.

I know it's stressful, but fighting your mom on this is not likely to work. I know, I've been there. It's not likely that tough love will help her stop this behavior. I have to think of it as she's ill, not that she's mean.

I would ask to have an appointment with her psychiatrist and discuss ways you can cope. Can you and dad get counseling? If you just can't tolerate it. I would move away and explain why. Perhaps living out of the situation will give you some relief and you can get some peace. There's nothing wrong with that.

Hi Sunnygirl, sorry I guess I didn't explain very well, moms nurse didn't give up on her for doing something wrong, she quit because until just the day before mom was completely bed redden and had to be lifted in and out of bed into a wheelchair and lifted into a chair or tub,.. the nurse caught her walking when she "couldn't" and writing when she "couldn't" she "couldn't" do anything by herself.. until she wanted to make sure something was on the shopping list that she wanted bought - then she could get up walk to the kitchen and write it down.. she was caught red handed by the nurse.. and dad knew she was doing things when no one was around, she could talk when no one was around ..but again he wouldn't call her on it.

Her dr's sent her to the psychiatrist because there was nothing wrong,.. I mean she's healthy, no high blood pressure, cholesterol etc.. even at almost 190 pounds she not even pre diabetic, she has a hard time getting around because she is overweight, but I take her shopping every week and she walks around for 4 to 5 hours at a time going from one store to the next .

Her psychiatrist said she was seeking attention, so my brother and his wife spent thousands remodeling the bottom half of their house - made a "mother in law" apartment and moved mom and dad in.

That lasted about three years and they couldn't take it anymore, nothing was ever enough, and she'd have her "strokes" to get them to cave into what she wanted..she wanted to go to Niagra Falls, they said they had already planned that years vacation, but would plan to go the next year , sooo mom was "so stressed out over not getting any younger" and "just might not live till next year" she'd never get to see the Falls - she had a "stroke" was totally helpless for weeks, they said, fine they'll go to the Falls and within a few days (because after sitting for that long it really does take a few days to get your strength back in your legs) she was perfectly fine ... she wanted separate heat and air controls for her part of the house, had a "stoke" till she got that and THEN still kept the temp at the same 73 degrees my brother kept the rest of the house at.. I could go on and on

It caused a lot of tension and they just just got to where they left dad in that side of the house to deal with her.

The house next to me went up for sale and dad bought it, and I moved them in, keeping in mind her psychiatrist saying she wants attention ,.. so I try to give her positive reinforcement over every little thing - when she mops the floor or any other house cleaning I rave over what a great job she did, when she embroiders something new I make a big deal over how pretty it is (she really does amazing work).. I've taken her to the senior center several times but she doesn't like the people there and won't go back, I'm over there at least once a day just to sit and chat, send her emails off and on thru the day (can't call on the ph - dads hard of hearing and keeps the tv up to loud to talk) .. I plan outings like going to the beach at the end of the month for the weekend, I take her anywhere she wants to go and we have our standing once a week 4-5 shopping trips... I don't know what set off this latest "stroke"... but it's tiring...and irritating...the only thing I can think of is she just found out I'm planning a 3 day trip in Oct with my son his wife and grand kids...and she wants to go.. still don't know why dad won't confront her or let me or my son, or any one... she needs to stop crying wolf so when something really IS wrong we can get her the help she needs and her dr will take her and us seriously.

But I don't know how to make him do that.

Well, I would think that the psychiatrist should still be able to treat her, but, maybe he's never encountered a case like hers. It does sound astounding.

There's only so much you can do. You try and when you can't take it anymore, you let it alone. I would seek some counseling and then follow what my heart and mind tells me is best for me. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved and as long as she's competent, you can't force her to do anything.

As to there being "nothing really wrong", well, she's mentally ill, isn't she? Mental illness is a real thing.

Is she still on antidepressants? Does someone monitor if she's taking them?

I think i would distance myself in this situation so that you are not driven mad.

I wish I could call the ambulance each and every time she does this, then as soon as the insurance finds out it wasn't really an emergency and refuses to paid the bill just look at dad and say "better safe then sorry" and "ok, well YOU explain to the EMTs why your wife is in that almost vegetative shape and you don't want them to take her to the hospital".. They would go broke..

You said Sunnygirl that her psychiatrist should be able to do something for her.. I'm sure he/she would try, but dad won't even bother to take her anymore because "it wasn't helping her".. like I say, he knows she's faking these "episodes" as he calls them ..he won't do anything or let me..I was hoping someone had gone thru this with their parents and had ideas on how to get around the situation.

I think you need to step back and allow your parents to continue their dance. They've been doing it for a long time. Until dad gets fed up (won't happen) or dies or leaves ( as in, has to go to a facility), nothing will change. Structural disruption is what will make a difference. Nothing you can do or say will. Step back and let them be. To engage in this is to enable the dysfunction to continue.

I have gone through it. It's a process and there are no quick fixes. The patient is often in denial and resistant to change and treatment. It's a long journey and things may not turn out the way you want. If your dad stopped taking her to her psychiatrist appointments then he is really hindering things. Sometimes the dysfunction is so thick it's difficult to get through it. Your dad may be in some way empowered by this behavior of your mom.

Between the two of them refusing treatment for her condition, I'm not sure what you expect to be able to do.

Thank you sunnygirl and babalu for the advice (and "permission"?).to not feel like I'm responsible for dads health when he gets worn out from dealing with moms nonsense. . I really appreciate it,...never thought about dad feeling empowered in some way..that's interesting, at least that would explain why he allows it to continue.

I'll take the advice and when I'm called again to help dad feed, bathe, dress, take her to the bathroom, etc I will simply say "I will be happy to once she's been to the dr and I know why she can't do these things for herself - but until I know why she can't do them for herself, I'm not available to help you."

I really feel better having a game plan AND knowing I'm not the only one.. thanks to all of you for your responses.

If your mom has been controlling throughout their marriage, he may be in "go along to get along mode", which I think is common of men in such relationships. It's easier to just do what they want than deal with the wrath, tears, guilt trips if they try to say no.
He can't confront her because he just can't. Not a healthy dynamic, I realize, but one that occurs all too often.

It's difficult to stay mentally healthy yourself, when you are surrounded with dysfunction and untreated mental illness. We just do the best we can. I find peace in that.

D, are you an only child?

Sadly it sounds as though they are complicit and co-dependant on each other as this has been going on so long.
Agree with the other very sensible advice given here, you don't need to be a part of this.
This might be a little shocking, but would you involve yourself in the more intimate parts of your parents marriage? try to see this behaviour as a private part of Their relationship and it might help you to give yourself permission to back out of your current involvement.
Good luck, and having backed off, give yourself a break if you temporarily fall back into old patterns.

And if you haven't already, find yourself a therapist.

Dorthy I'm not to active in AC, but when I saw your post here. I'm private paid caregiver. I would like to tell you my experience with person like your Mother.
When I started caring for my new client(F/92) 3.5 yrs ago. Her family members thought she will die because she is always complaining to family(specially her oldest daughter) about her back aches, stomach aches all over the her body!! After I start working with my client after couple of weeks later I had noticed so much meds she was taking!!! Most meds cause/make her feels sick to stomach, so I suggested to her daughter to make Dr's appointment. three of us met Dr... Dr referral to MRI, my C was nothing wrong with her!! Well currently my C is very stable for 92 for her age, plus eat healthy foods, having good BM!!... only her problem is evening anxiety so she took smallest amount of Xanax....I'm guessing her dementia is starting a little worth then that when I started working with her 4 full days a week as live-in.
I don't know what kind of medications your mother is taking... just needs little adjustment from by her PCP, Sorry my English writing is not great...hope you would understand my writing. Please take care your self first so you can give best care for your parents!! Good Luck to you....

Dorthy, my folks did a variation of this - Dad was always fearful that my mom would have a stroke if she was upset, because her mom had had a massive stroke. A shorthand evolved - family not wanting to do what she wanted, Mom: I have a splitting headache, Dad: Your mother's going to have a stroke, Kids would back down, and the headache would be cured. This was their dynamic and because Dad was genuinely worried and fretful, we'd demur to help him. As adults, we learned to have convos with her privately to short circuit this dance.

Your parents dynamic won't change. Just see that you don't alter your plans, trip in Oct. for example, because of their issue. It's risky to assume it's always a ploy - my mom actually did have a couple TIAs a few years ago and I'm glad we treated them as real.

Thank you all for your responses, and STP your english is fine, thank you for posting ;)

I saw an attorney, and long story short is as long as dad is of sound mind my hands are pretty much tied, which you all have already told me, but I guess I just needed to dot all my "i"s and cross all my "t"s...

He said with me living next door to my parents now, if I decide to not help dad with mom, to expect one or both of them to go beyond the "you don't love me" routine,
that I should prepare myself for them to attempt to shame me in to resuming coming over at every little whim by telling the neighbors - subtlety- that they would be doing better if I wasn't to busy to and lend a hand, but that I am far too busy to help at all, or words to that effect.

I hadn't thought of that, but I can see mom doing just that, sitting on the front porch waiting for one of the neighbors to stop and ask how they are and then "I was really sick with a mild stroke and Dorthy couldn't be bothered to help her dad take care of me so now he is sick and I'm just doing the best I can to take care of us both".. yep,.. I can see it now.

He said all you can do to try to head that off is make sure you wave "sweetly" to whichever neighbors you can as you are going in and out of your parents house,if they question you on it tell them Mom and dad don't remember things like they used to and leave it at that, don't elaborate, just Mom and dad don't remember things like they used to. He suggested I check on them at least once a week physically and daily with phone calls and emails after I begin to refuse help with Mom , simple because of their age they need some one to keep an eye on them, But to think long and hard before I start this, he said just like a child will have a tantrum to get their way, adults will too, if I back down and give in and begin helping to take care of mom again because my dad is becoming ill from doing it all himself - before dad takes mom to the dr to find out what if anything is wrong, then just like giving into a child because you don't want to hear the screaming anymore I will be creating a brat ! Eventually the child learns throwing a fit just makes him tired and does not get him his way, and I have to hang on until my parents learn that.. OR until someone else in the family (like I did when they were living with my brother thought I have more time to fill her need for attention, let them move next door to me) after hearing how "bad" things are volunteers to step in.

So, good advice or no?

Since she's still "recovering" I gave my first "pushed back" when I went over earlier this afternoon. Mom asked if I'd give her a sponge bath and wash her hair for her again because she was tired today and "your dads arthritis in his shoulders makes it hard for him". I said " Oh well I will go home then so you can take a nap and when you get up you can take your shower and give dads shoulders a break" Of course she got up set and started "no no no don't leave", but I left her standing at the door saying "I don't want to nap right now" I could hear dad in the back ground saying it was ok, he'd help her.

It sounds easy enough as I write it out...just say no... but it was hard...this is going to be tough, but it truly is push come to shove time, this is going to be a battle of the wills, and the short (but seems so long too) 8 months of habit/training/conditioning/manipulation that has become the norm since they moved in next door - I have to un-learn- I just hope and pray dad comes to his senses before he gets too sick.

thanks for letting me vent, get this out of my system, think out loud, whatever it is I am doing... I have a feeling I might be doing a lot more of "it" before all said and done .

If it's any consolation, I've seen a variation of this kind of behavior in a surviving wife. In that case the person enabling her was her daughter, the caregiver.

The advice of the attorney was actually illuminating for me. My relatives and I saw this happening but were really powerless to do anything about it. As long as the caregiver daughter responded, mother continued to manipulate. I never really saw it for the relationship it was though, even though the mother had always been that kind of person advising (not asking) family to "do this" or "do that."

Daughter might groan or scowl a bit, but she grudgingly complied, meekly as a matter of fact. Daughter then picked up on the behavior and began attempting to manipulate her relatives, engaging in the kind of behavior the attorney predicted with her standard theme being "everybody's mean to me."

Now I'm wondering if this is a generational dynamic? Learned behavior?

As to the attorney's advice, it seems as though he's been through this himself and has some real insight. I still would be concerned about misrepresentations and false tales to the neighbors, who might eventually call APS. So I'd be very careful about what I did, even to the point of documenting the times when you've left (such as today), in the event that somebody doesn't see through your mother's behavior and decides that intervention is necessary.

You could alert the neighbors as to what your mother might say, but I feel uncomfortable even suggesting that because it's essentially sharing private family dynamics with them. Maybe others have had some experience with this. I'm thinking as well of some of the neighbors and friends who post here with complaints about how the family is ignoring their parent or loved one.

GardenArtist thank you for the suggestion to document my visits. That is an excellent idea! I will buy a digital recorder to record my conversations while at their house.

When she has her next "stroke" I will attempt to record her with my phone without their knowing so I will have documentation of her "slips", for instants once while she was "unable" to speak, nothing coming from her other than mumbling gibberish and couldn't use her arms or hands so need help from me and dad holding her cup to drink from the straw, I brought her the wrong soft drink, and with the first sip both of her hands came up- SHOVED the cup away and she said perfectly clear "that's not my Coke!" I apologised, went and got a Coke and she went right back to muttering nonsense and her hands and arms went limp again. This is but one example.

If the neighbors do get involved you are right, it would be good for me to have some of these lapses in her "I had a stroke" performance to show should I need them. Thanks again.

You're doing brilliantly, Dorthy. Such a hard situation, and I'm glad you found AC to come and let off steam even when nothing else helps :)

I think pretty much everything's been covered; but just on the point that the boy who cried wolf did eventually meet the wolf… As well as documenting visits, which is a great idea, make your own objective observations of your mother's general state so that you will be alert to any real changes that might need investigating. Breathing, colour, appetite, speech, that kind of thing - you'll know best what should be on the checklist.

For those of you who are beating up on this young lady, quit it. She may not be a doctor, bit neither are you. And IF any of you IS a medical professional, kudos. Youre STILL not walking her day to day. If toure a caregiver, thats already difficult enough. I KNOW. And shes herr to ask for help, vent, and hopefully get to a better place regarding her mom. It is HER mom, and ahe knows HER mother. Parent or notz some can and do take FULL advantage, and make it miserable for those who do the work of caregicing with no help, no pay, and no respite. Honey, override dads wiahes and think of your aanity. IF she actually is sick, then you need to know. Because if she ShOuLd ever actually stroke, it will be the boy who cried wolf, and u dont want that. My heart certsinly goes out to you, dear.

My husbands grandmother used to fake strokes and GI bleeds all the time. (she would claim she vomited blood but no one would ever see it) Multiple trips to the ER but no admissions. These incidents would always occur if we were going to go out of town, if she knew we had an event to go to, or if we were entertaining at our home (esp. if it was an event for my family and she was not invited). My husband decided that he would call her every morning at a certain time and talk with her about how she felt and what her plans were for the day. I think getting that attention was what she needed. It didn't completely eliminate her "symptoms" but it made the phone calls from her decrease. We got her involved in a senior citizen center. Her town had a bus for seniors and they would pick her up every morning (4-5 days a week) and take her and then bring her home. It seemed that the contact with others and the phone calls made a difference. It is not nice to say but when we did go away he would still call her and not mention that we were away. She never had an incident during those times. Of course, his brother was the back up if something had happened and we made sure we were never all away at the same time. She managed to continue to live on her own in her senior apartment until her dementia took over and she was wandering the halls at night and disturbing the other tenants. She had to be placed in a skilled facility.

dorthy
kudos to you. It is so hard. someone once said here that just as our parents had to make decisions for us when we were younger (many of which we didn't like) now we have to make decisions for them which they won't like. but if you believe it is in their best interest then sometimes you have to do the tough love or just say no thing. Hang in there. You need to set limits for your mom. My MIL was diagnosed with a heart condition and since I am a nurse she would always call me when she had a problem I would tell her that she needed to call her doctor but she didn't want to "disturb" him. finally I got to the point that I would tell her I couldn't diagnosis her issue or tell her to take an extra pill or two and suggested that she go to the ER to find out what was wrong. She got really angry with me but she needed to use the medical system to see what was going on and not rely on advice from me. Plus if there truly was a problem her MD needed to know about it.

I actually knew someone who did something very similar to this. What do you need to do is to have a little talk with both the paramedics and ER staff. Then, step back and let them handle it, they're trained to handle this kind of thing. When someone abuses the system as you're describing, medical personnel will know it and they will be able to handle it. One of the first things they'll consider doing is calling social services and recommending mental health services. Meanwhile, what you may do is drop this person from your insurance coverage if you added them to your insurance policy. I mention this because you say that you cannot afford request squad rides and ER visits, which is exactly why I suggested dropping this person from your coverage. Best yet, just don't pay the bill out of your own pocket, make this person pay it out of their pocket. That way, when they ask where all their money went they will know the cost of their habit. Until someone has to pay for their own mistakes, they will never learn anything, and it's about time that this person is required to start paying their own out-of-pocket expense for what they're doing. Another smart move would be to call either the APS or a lawyer who specializes in elder care matters. You should get help in transferring best person into a nursing home if you haven't done so already. Nursing home staff will know how to curb the problem that you're having.

Sounds like she has been diagnosed with CADASIL but does not want to tell you. My wife's mother had it from her father, and passed it onto her kids, discovered it in ’92. The kids could have taken care of themselves and planned their lives better had they known, not to mention getting tested early. It is possible that you are possibly missing a huge piece of the problem by failing to understand arteriopathy.

Dorthy: Your mother is mentally ill. Get her to a psychiatrist NOW!! FAKING A STROKE IS TERRIBLE! She'd best be careful what she wishes for!