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Erroxy, I think that you're wrong (and mean, but that's besides the point). One elder cannot "do it all" without help if someone is essentially bedbound. Just not possible. Nothing to do with how much you love the other person.

I think that Charlie IS suffering from burnout and also from a bit of PTSD; he remembers trying to care solo for his mother and knows what happened to him then. Self-preservation is different from selfishness.

We more or less constantly tell folks here that they need to take care of themselves first, or else who is going to take care of the person they are caring for? Charlie needs to try getting some help in, maybe getting himself some therapy and setting boundaries about how much he is willing to do. Boundaries make for healthy relationships and good marriages. (I have the tee shirt, as the saying goes).
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Yeah, I'll just say that I think Erroxy is more than slightly presumptuous in assuming that my primary dissatisfaction is the burden of "waiting on someone" while not getting my quota of anticipated sex.

Let me assure you of one thing, Errox. If I do break this engagement (something thousands of people do every day) and if I build that little hermit hut out in the middle of nowhere as has been suggested, doing without sex from the legion of arrogant, know-it-alls like yourself will be the easiest sacrifice I would have to make.

Karen's love for me is the major energy force that is sustaining me RIGHT NOW. And I will repeat what I said in my second post as to the current source of MY greatest pain and torment: I do NOT have the emotional resources to be given charge over the well-being of another person, only to watch my efforts fail so miserably in the most critical area of pain management, EVEN IF IT IS THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN.

I could have added, "and the thought of having to watch my loved one suffer in agony for a period of years due to a possible chronic, incurable condition is a curse I simply cannot bear."

For anyone to equate that torture to whatever distaste I have for doing her laundry in addition to mine makes me sick to my stomach.
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Charlie, WHY do you need to take care of her?

Because she expects it?

Why can't you say, "hon, I can't do this alone any more. You need to get some help in."

Alternatively, you can send the laundry out and eat a lot of takeout. In my city, my house cleaner has not come back to work, but maybe in your area you can have a cleaner in?

If I had hip replacement surgery, there is no way that I'd expect my 67 year old husband of 18 years to take up all the slack. And vice versa.
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Well, the short answer is because we've been thrown into this quite suddenly, we live together in the same house we co-own and neither one of us has family within a three-state radius to help out. And no friends to speak of in the retirement community where we live.

But, yes, there are other resources. I got Visiting Angels to bring in a companion today while I was gone over four hours for a medical appointment. We may well do more of that. We're going to have to.

But she had me running around cleaning up stuff in preparation for the arrival of the PAID COMPANION. Insisted I remove the porta-potty from the living room ("Why?" I asked, "So you can fool her into thinking you're not the patient?"). She did the same thing before the regular cleaning people came in back when she was healthy....and went around cleaning WITH them and after them because no one performs to her standards.

You mentioned control issues. Yeah, I think the thing that is killing her most emotionally is the control she lost over her environment. I would think that would be fairly common for many people, but I can guarantee it is a major depressive issue for her.
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Okay, the tax story is just too much. This lady has some serious control issues. I would not proceed with this relationship.

Charlie, I would pull back on the "waiting on her hand and foot". I would not make any comments about PT. I would encourage you to start getting out of the house/apartment more, at least a couple of times a day. Make yourself less available.

Get yourself a consult with a lawyer well versed in real estate to give you advice about the best way to get out of the co-ownership situation. Find out about breach of promise laws in your state.

And please, find yourself a therapist.
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
I agree with everything you said. But that is a long list of things I need to do for ME while necessarily taking care of someone living in OUR house. You're not wrong. Just sayin'....
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One reason older people do not get married is the financial implications of doing so. Even if there is a prenuptial, Medicaid does not consider assets as individual property. Assets have become a pool where each person is now responsible for cost of health needs. When 50% of the pool is spent then the other person has the remainder for their future living expenses and health care needs and only if it has been setup properly by an attorney.

My mom was well situated financially, married at 80 to her high school sweetheart, also well situated financially, thank goodness. He paid for everything they did before facility living and passed first, enough assets to pay for his own care. Mom passed nine months later and had enough of her own assets to continue paying the cost of her care. It could have played out very differently had either of them not had the savings. Had they both understood that they would have made a different decision, I think. Both wanted inheritance for their own children.

Me, I will never marry again. Shack up maybe, for now, I enjoy my life for what it is and not having either emotional or financial responsibility for anyone but me. This should be a primary consideration for anyone considering marrying later in life.
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cherokeegrrl54 Jul 2020
Amen, sister!! Agree totally
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After what you’ve been through with your mother, you deserve to have a happy life. You did not sign up for another caregiving job. You CAN and have the choice of opting out. Tell her to contact someone from her family. You are getting burnt out. I hope she doesn’t become a squatter & refuse to leave & claim it’s her property. Just end it. I feel bad for you because I’m going through caregiving for my 93 yo mother with dementia. I’m 61. I’ve said to myself that I will NEVER do caregiving again for anyone!!!! I “plan “ to enjoy my life after this ends...but I know how God laughs when people make plans. Just break engagement. How you do it is up to you. Maybe help her get into ALF. (Assisted living facility) But don’t sign up for being her advocate or she’ll make you responsible for $$$paying for facility!!! & BTW, your tax & financial situation is none of her business!!! Uugghh!!!!! Good luck & lots of hugs 🤗
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JoAnn29 Jul 2020
They own the house together.
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Reviewing the facts as stated by Charlie,
He proposed, they moved in together, financially investing in a home together, lived together a year.....without marriage.

Setting aside the hip surgery and decline, when was the marriage going to take place?
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Her desire to be married in the Catholic church has (due to our respective divorces) resulted in a lengthy administrative delay. The "petition" is under review. No date has been set.
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"Which upon careful review makes me feel like the biggest, shallowest, myopic, SOB that ever walked this earth. But I do NOT have the emotional resources to be given charge over the well-being of another person, only to watch my efforts fail so miserably in the most critical area of pain management, EVEN IF IT IS THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN"

Maybe, I just think you both rushed into something too early. As they say, "the honeymoon is over". Your other comment

"She is incredibly stubborn and unfathomably vain in terms of her personal appearance and the house being neat as a pin "in case" anyone should stop by (no one ever does). She assumes people to be insanely judgemental toward the slightest imperfections -- things no reasonable person is at all likely to notice. It is disproportionate to sheer common sense."

Can you live with someone like this the rest of your life? I feel you were having second thoughts prior to her hip replacement and her surgery was just the straw that broke the camels back. This is what engagements are for, to get to know someone better as a couple. You have found out that marriage will not work. Maybe ur not cut out for this type of relationship. Thats OK. At 70 you need to live the rest of your life the way you want to. Thank God at our age there are no kids to worry about.
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
I almost called it off after a major argument just two months after having proposed. I had casually remarked to an acquaintance that I had failed to file my 2018 taxes on time and was going to owe substantial penalties and interest. When I related that conversation, she went ballistic. Gave me total grief for revealing PRIVATE FINANCIAL information to a personal friend.

Let me repeat that: she was PERSONALLY HUMILIATED about a tax liability I had incurred before we ever MET and that I had CHOSEN to share with someone else simply because I had not regarded it has any big damn deal.

I told her it was none of her business what I chose to confide to MY friends about ME personally. That's when I first wondered where her insecurity came from. I had seen nothing like it before.
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So..after 3 months without thinking long enough, you asked her to marry you....then thinking you made a mistake and didn't mention this to her, you've strung her along and now when she really needs you, you want out? WOW! The very least you can do is help her till she's able to be independent. What you are going through right now is NOTHING compared to what she is going through and about to go through. I think it best you remain single. It is clear you are not at this time able to care for her in sickness, in health, for better, for worse, as long as you both shall live. Hopefully she realizes you have this problem and makes your job easier by breaking it off with you. Good luck.
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MaryKathleen Jul 2020
Charlie is not married to her, she is not even trying to do her exercises at home. I agree they rushed into this too soon, but it is water under the bridge and if he wants out, he should get out. All that for better or worse stuff doesn't count. I divorced my last husband because I could not take it any more. My daughter divorced a Pedophile who was abusive to her. Should she have stayed for "better or worse"? I think not.
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Hi again Charlie,

I don't know how much you researched hip replacement complications in which a small percent of people do get complications in which a "revision" surgery may help:

Hip replacement complications include blood clots, change in leg length, dislocation, fractures, infection and loosening of the implant. People who have received metal-on-metal hips may also experience metallosis, a form of metal poisoning that causes tissue damage and other serious conditions.

https://www.drugwatch.com/hip-replacement/complications/#:~:text=Hip%20replacement%20complications%20include%20blood,damage%20and%20other%20serious%20conditions.

According to the Mayo Clinic pain should be evaluated as soon as possible (article below):

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-pain-near-artificial-hip-should-be-evaluated-without-delay/

Hip replacement surgery usually relieves hip pain not add to it. Thus I really suggest that Karen should seek another opinion from a different doctor to find out what is causing her pain. Her pain doesn't sound normal to me at all. It's possible she may have developed a serious infection but I'm not a doctor.

Jenna
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Hi Charlie, I see 2 main problems here. The first problem I see is a hip replacement gone wrong as there "normally" shouldn't be this much pain afterward (after witnessing other's hip replacement surgeries). The first step I would take if I were in your shoes is to bring Karen to more surgeons to get other medical opinions as to why she is is pain to begin with. This is "not" normal pain that she is in.

When I first became chronically ill (I had undiagnosed lyme disease) I visited over 20 different doctors and not one of them could give me an answer. I kept pushing on until I did find out what was wrong with me and causing my pain (this took over 5 long painful years until I diagnosed myself using the internet). Thus, doctors are not God and they DO make mistakes. Sorry, I lost my trust in doctors many years ago, but this is not about me.

Get more opinions and find out the root cause of Karen's pain.

The second problem I see here is your experiences with your Mom. That's where you need a professional to talk to because Karen is NOT your Mom. She is a woman that you fell in love with (or you thought you did) so you want to run (and I understand that). There is a BIG difference between Karen and your Mom and I think you may need help in identifying the difference between both of these women.

Again, I strongly feel that you need to get Karen to other doctors for their opinions as to why Karen is in this much pain. Some pain is normal after surgery but Karen's pain does NOT sound normal.

Instead of "masking" the pain with drugs, remedies, etc. find a doctor who can diagnose Karen and hopefully can explain to both of you what is really causing her pain.

I don't know if this helps or not, just wanted to chime in and give you my perspective on this situation.

Best to you both,
Jenna
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(((((Hugs)))))) Charlie. You are in a very tough situation. Have you considered therapy to help you work through this? My heart goes out to you both.
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Charlie, are you in a state that marijuana is legal? I would not stop at anything to hopefully find her relief. There is CBD also that is legal everywhere, some people have experienced amazing improvements, decreased pain. . I cannot speak of this myself, I don't have any issues with pain.
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erroxy Jul 2020
Charlie's the one who needs to smoke a little marijuana!

For those of you who suggest Charlie is suffering from caregiver burnout-he is not.

He is suffering from just not wanting to take care of his fiancee. He got into a relationship that did not turn out like he thought. He does not like the idea of no sex and waiting on someone.

There are always penalties to pay when we make mistakes and poor decisions. She will probably get to stay in condo now. Please don't blame her. We know nothing about her other than what Charlie says.

He needs to move out of the condo - find a senior living apartment - smoke some marijuana - and play the field having all the sex he wants with no commitment.
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SCCHARLIE,
Hello again. I have more pain spasm and turmeric info for you:
pain spasm pain cycle explained
YouTube · 9,000+ views · 9/22/2016
by thenaturalbodyworks

https://youtu.be/OzFL6rA7aGU

I hope these YouTube videos are helpful. I am also a former medical imaging tech. I am currently facing a complete knee replacement. I use Salonpas 4% lidocaine patches for the best relief of pain and I take 2000 mg turmeric with black pepper 3X a day. I like chewing and sucking out the juice of fresh ginger. I spit it out because I don't like swallowing it.
Very recently, I listened to a podcast and the presenting physician spoke about neuropathy. She said to relieve discomfort, soak feet in hot water for 10 minutes, then cold water for 10 minutes. There must really be something to alternating heat and cold.

I am happy to see your softer side. Initially you sounded a bit harsh and appeared determined to get away from Karen. Being unaware of the extent of your feelings and financial involvement, I gave my best advice. I am fine with being off base. I think you should be as supportive as possible without misleading her. It is noble of you to continue to take care of Karen. Remember to take care of yourself. Some assisted living and nursing homes, I think, offer respite care. Karen would stay at the facility for a predetermined amount of days and you would get a break. You could stay home alone or leave town. It is your time, you can do whatever you like.
Remember to praise God daily and ask Him to help you through this challenging time. Good luck and God bless.
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SCCharlie,
You are not wrong to understand things as you do.
Contact her family, and have them visit.
Gradually transfer the responsibility for her care over to them.

In the meantime, ask her doctor to re-admit her to a rehab for treatment, where her family can arrange for her care and become her POA.

Get ready now to sell the home you are sharing to release her funds invested back to her, or, maybe you can you buy her out.
She will need the money for her own care.

In six months to a year at most, if I was her family and POA, and you still did not release her financially from this arrangement....
well, you can see the financial consequences of course. So do the right thing early on, without making a fuss.

Leaving the sadness and emotions to you and the excellent advice of all the other posters. I care. 😔
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Charlie:

A neurological exam does include an evaluation of cognitive functioning and that includes behavior. I did feel you were looking for "another" cause of her pain as you had mentioned other factors being ruled out.

Much of what you write espouses a contradictory attitude to her complaint of pain being due to a physiologic cause versus psychologic. If it is determined her pain is idiopathic or psychogenic - what will you do?
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
That's a very good question, and one I had not considered. She is incredibly stubborn and unfathomably vain in terms of her personal appearance and the house being neat as a pin "in case" anyone should stop by (no one ever does). She assumes people to be insanely judgemental toward the slightest imperfections -- things no reasonable person is at all likely to notice. It is disproportionate to sheer common sense.

But she is not crazy. Vain, demanding and wants what she wants when she damn well wants it, but not crazy. On the other hand to your point consider this:

She went to PT intake yesterday and the therapist gave her three "exercises" to do at home. Fifteen reps three times per day. Here they are:

1. Lie flat on your back and merely flex your buttocks muscles 15 times.

2. With a rolled towel under the back of the knee of the affected leg, press down for one or two seconds. 15 reps.

3. Flat on your back with knees bent, spread knees out to either side and bring back to neutral. 15 reps.

That's it. That's the whole program. The therapist gave her a general optimistic outlook for recovery but cautioned that it may "take awhile." Naturally she was very happy. Of course, old wet dishrag me chimed in, "But that recovery is contingent on you doing these exercises three times per day, 15 reps each." To which she bristled, "What, you don't think I am determined to get better?"

So, last night she was in great pain and blamed it on being "worked over" in therapy. Today, we did ONE set of the protocol this morning. Seemed to go okay. Tonight during a pain flare up, I noted that we were behind on the exercises. She snapped at me and once again assured me she wanted to do that which she was charged with doing -- but no way was she going to do it in this amount of pain TONIGHT.

Is this the kind of thing you are referring to? Because while I very much want to believe in the reality of her pain, I also know she "lovingly appreciates" my personal attention and support. I would never accuse her of goldbricking, but I know we aren't moving forward either.

Charlie
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Having read this question and answers I find my self scared to death of what may happen to me. I have had both knees replaced several years ago and never gained 100% use of them. The pain levels are off the scale. Along with this I have 6 disks in my back that are now crushed as well as my right arm/shoulder is no longer working. I have to wait until November to get an MRI of my arm. I have often wondered if this would become too much for my husband to deal with but we have been fine and have talked about it. But now I am scared after reading this that maybe my husband has the same thoughts. I do what I can but I often have to ask for assistance. To think that I might be put through something like what Charlie is thinking of doing is made this a very sad day. Heart break on top of physical pain is more than most people can bear or should have to bear.
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Every relationship is different. I am 70 years old dealing with health issues and in the waning years of my own life and questioning my commitment to a woman I've known barely a year and a half.

If you and your husband are still reasonably young, you may have physical and emotional resources I simply do not have, not to mention how those resources have been strengthened and reinforced by your (many?) years together.

I pray for both of you that that is the case.
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If you can't handle it, you can't handle it. Right, wrong or indifferent, if it's not within you to take care of this woman, then you shouldn't.

I had a total hip replacement in 2016 and was back to work in 3 weeks, no PT, just walking up and down the street with a walker first, then a cane, then nothing. I was lucky. Some aren't. My mother has suffered from peripheral neuropathy in her feet & legs for 20 years now. Nothing helps her. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Oh, Cymbalta did help the pain/numbness but her dementia worsened dramatically, so she had to be taken off of it. She takes an opioid painkiller 3x a day, and still has days she spends entirely in bed from the pain. To the best of my knowledge, and the Neurologist's knowledge, there is no cure for neuropathy as of 2020. Penetrex cream used to help my mother a lot, but no more. We go around in circles continuously about her chronic pain and what can be done to fix it, and come up empty handed each time. It's frustrating, to say the least. I could never handle her living in my home, so she doesn't. She lives in Memory Care Assisted Living and pays others to care for her 24/7. I handle all of her affairs from home, and speak with her daily & see her weekly. It's the best I can do. I recognize my limitations and don't feel 'wrong' or guilty for being who I am at the core.

Getting romantically involved with someone in old age brings with it a myriad of likely health issues for BOTH of you. What if this were YOU who had a hip replacement gone wrong? And asked to sit in the front room instead of the bedroom because it felt a lot nicer there, and then your fiance was super pissed off and put out that you'd be ridiculous enough to want such a thing. If sitting on the recliner brings her any joy at all, let her do it in peace!

Put the shoe on the other foot and try to imagine what your fiancee is feeling right now, and where she might be coming from. Nerve pain is a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy...........have you ever experienced it firsthand? Empathy is learned through scar tissue, is what my husband likes to say. And he's right. I had sciatica years ago and it made my neck pain feel like a day in the park by comparison. At the time, I was waiting for emergency neck fusion surgery.


My husband, who was then my fiance, took care of me through the neck surgery, the hip replacement, a heart attack scare, and all sorts of other health issues over the 15 years we've been together. He likes to say it's what he DOES for those he loves. But that's him. I took care of him when he had an emergency pacemaker put in last July 4th. I sometimes feel guilty for having more health issues than he does. But that's how things sometimes work out..........if he winds up with more health problems down the road, then I'LL be the one bearing the burden. I'm sure I'll do some complaining, too, because it's not easy ANY of this. But it's what love does. It cares and nurtures and endures. You do not have years of foundation built up with your fiancee, and are realizing your limitations now.


If I were you, I'd try to get my fiancee the help she so badly needs. And some relief from chronic nerve pain which is wreaking a whole lot more havoc with HER than it is with YOU.

Sorry you're going through this, and even sorrier that your fiancee is going through this. Please get her the help she needs first, and then break up with her. That would be the kindest thing you could do for her, in my opinion. Not everyone is cut out to go through the hard times with their partner; they're just looking for the good times. That would be called dating, not engagement or marriage. Some people are better suited to date on a long term basis, and in old age, is not necessarily a bad idea.

Wishing you and your fiancee the best of luck
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Thank you so much!

I have a bit of peripheral neuropathy myself, but mine is fairly well controlled by gabapentin cream.

My irritation at her insisting on sitting in an uncomfortable chair revolved around whatever harm she might be doing in not allowing inflammed nerves to heal and subjecting herself to increased pain. By advocating the alternative of resting in bed was my way of trying to help.

Beyond that I agree with virtually everything you said.

Charlie
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SCCharlie, you need to ask for a referral to pain management. Opioids don't do anything for nerve pain. There are medications that are used for neuropathy pain and they are much more effective. I don't think that she is an addict after 30 days, so I would not focus on that in the least, but I would focus on getting her something that is for her specific pain.

Have you told your fiancee that you can not care more than she does and that you will not be around if she doesn't do everything that she is supposed to do? Sometimes just hearing that your choices have consequences that you might not have considered can help shift people from neutral. Yes the pain is terrible, but sitting around doing nothing only makes it worse, proven fact. You owe her nothing but the truth. Give her that. If you have changed your mind about the relationship, then man up and tell her. That is what you need to do, no reason to make any excuses or place blame on her for something she could not foresee, you don't want to be with her or you do and you know the answer to that. Man up and speak up.

One thing that I would be concerned about, you said that her foot feels on fire, have they checked for blood clots? That would be something that I would want checked and ruled out by testing before I would believe that she didn't. It is not uncommon after surgery that has resulted in injury for blood clots to form. Medical errors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA, trust what you see not what a doctor says. They don't even have her on helpful medication, this is a clue that they are not paying enough attention to what is going on. Advocate for her as a thank you for the last year of good times.

Edit: I have heard that large doses of tylenol and advil actually provide better pain relief than opioids. Like 500mg each, well worth checking out if they won't give her meds that target nerve pain.
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SCCharlie,
There are several issues here. You are not wrong in your self-assessment that you should not be this lady's care partner. Very Good for recognizing and admitting this. Your next step should be to sit down and explain this to the lady and someone she is very close to that could possibly care for and help her through this recovery stage. Be honest and try to speak softly and compassionately. Explain that you are not physically and/or emotionally equipped to handle her medical needs. Express concern and respect but request a move-out date. You may have to be flexible on this item.
Try to understand that she may not be able to psychologically endure confinement in one rom 24/7. She is dealing with surgical recovery, loss of your affection, fear of where to and how to move at this time and probably pain-pill/opioid addiction.
Be the nice guy and help this lady with the pain med issue. I don't understand why doctors don't tell patients about the pain-spasm cycle. When there is injury to the body, the brain receives messages and it sends help in the form of white cells and swelling to protect the injured area. After the area begins to heal, for whatever reason, the messages may not get turned off and pain is felt but the injury is not really there. This cycle must be broken. It is easier than you may think if you can break the cycle before pharmaceutical addiction gets its death grasp on the person. Rotate a heating pad and ice pack on involved area for two twenty minute sessions each. Wait two hours and repeat a session of heat followed by a session of ice, two times. Do this about four times a day. I am not a physician or pharmacist and I do not dispense medicine advice. I will tell you my experience. Opioid mg amount cut in half by using a pill cutter and actually cutting the pill. I took Tylenol because my medical condition did not allow me to take ibuprofen (NSAIDs). If she can tolerate n-saids, that would be good. I found a good brand of Turmeric with Bio-Perine (black pepper) and took one 1000mg capsule three times a day. I took up to two 1000mg capsules three times a day as Tylenol was lessened. This worked for me. I went through a mild withdrawal but came out addiction-free.
Karen may be eligible for home health and free meals delivered. Check with medicare or insurance company. Here's an odd tip, if Karen has an annuity, check towards the end of paperwork. The annuity may pay for rehab/long-term stay facility.
This is a difficult position to be in but with honesty and compassion, it can be handled well. You may end up being great friends. Good Luck.
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
WOW!! There is a ton of great advice here and I appreciate every bit of it. Now for the "buts..."

Given the pain she is in, the GUILT she feels for putting me through this and the fear she has of being left alone, this doesn't strike me as the time to "compassionately" confirm those worst fears and say, "Yeah, as soon as I help you get through this and back on your feet, the wedding is off." Request a move out date? She only has one functioning leg. She can't walk or drive. And, for that matter, we co-own the house we live in. My contribution was quite a bit more, but I have no legal grounds for asking HER to leave nor would I ever do so. We will eventually need to work out a property settlement, but it will be many months before she is reasonably capable to address that issue.

I am focusing hard on your pain management advice. That is one of the main keys right now. She did complete a methylprednisolone steroid, graduated dosage protocol a day or so ago. I don't know what, if anything, it accomplished or how long the effects are supposed to last. It didn't take the place of Oxycodone is all I know.

The Tumeric is intriguing, as is the heat/ice regimen, but I can't see her tolerating it. The hypersensitive to pain on her skin surface is off the charts. Oh, and did I mention she is a retired hospice nurse and former medical imaging technician. Which underscores why I am the worst person to be giving this care. I have no credibility in light of her knowledge and experience whatsoever. How many of those arguments do you think I win?

I will probably be in contact with county social services in the next few days, although according to their website it sounds like they are not actually meeting face-to-face with anyone these days due to Covid-19.

But, again, I sincerely DO appreciate your suggestions even if it sounds like I don't. I know you are right on many points, and I don't quite know how to get there in the current context and timing.

Charlie
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To those of you who replied to my posts:

Charlie asked in his initial post if he was wrong to admit he couldn't handle taking care of his fiancee.

I answered him by saying he was right - he cannot take care of his fiancee.

There are myriad reasons to agree with him. But rather than restate all the other posters comments, I will just say - Charlie knows he cannot take care of her. He just wanted us to validate that.

And - I did.
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Charlie; have you read this?

https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-study-finds-nerve-damage-after-hip-surgery-may-be-due-to-inflammation/

Has anyone suggested a trial of an anti inflammatory like Oxy with Ibuprofen rather than tylenol? Or adding ibuprofen to the other pain meds?
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SCCharlie Jul 2020
Barb,
Yes, I had seen that Mayo Clinic article previously. The distinction these investigators are making is that the inflammation DEVELOPS over days or weeks following surgery rather than being a direct physical consequence OF the surgery itself.

Karen's pain was severe and immediate after coming out of anesthesia. I am as certain as a layman can be that she is suffering from nerve damage directly resulting from surgical procedures. But we need a neurologist to confirm or dispute whether that is true, and where and how bad that trauma specifically is. And it is taking forever to get that desperately needed consultation.
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JoAnn29:

Just read Charlie update.

I rest my case.
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JoAnn29 Jul 2020
Erroxy, u made a good case to my reply concerning my friend. He just rushed into this relationship too early.
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Heartfelt thanks to each and every one of you.

Just to give everyone a fuller picture. She is 30 days post-op and taking 10 mg of Oxycodone combined with 325 mg of Acetaminophen every 3 1/2 hours (supposed to be four, but she just can't make it. Nor can I.)

The complication from the surgery is traumatic nerve injury caused by stretching and traction of tissue during the surgery itself. Approximately 95% of patients tolerate this stretching and traction quite well. About 3-4% do not. Of that population, most patients recover MOST function (but a minority recover all) over a period of several months to several YEARS!! After two years, you've pretty much gotten all you will get.

This is not a confirmed diagnosis, but her orthopedic surgeon is slowly coming around after having gone back in to look for a significant hematoma exerting pressure on the sciatic or peroneal nerve. There wasn't any. This is what all the medical literature describes. I have researched the hell out of this. It is what I do. One need not be a rocket scientist to figure this out. All of her pain is peripheral neuropathy in her foot (feels like it is on fire) and lower leg beneath the knee. The hip replacement itself is fine. Not a bit of pain.

Meanwhile, we have yet to get the full scale neurological evaluation I have been begging for. We can't seem to get it expedited. I guess we are waiting in an unseen line.

She was in hospital five days with 10 days of acute rehab in a separate facility. Improvement was negligible at best. Just did intake on outpatient PT yesterday. That starts Tuesday. Meanwhile, she is DETERMINED to get better (in her mind) but not so much so that she dedicates herself to doing the in-home exercises three times per day as has already been prescribed. Too painful.

On the other hand, last night I got her comfortable in bed early, but she refuses to stay in it during the day. She insists on using a recliner in the front room (which essentially becomes a bed) which I have come to believe is only exacerbating her pain. And for that matter, our bed is an adjustable bed that she could position almost to that of a chair, and is obviously more comfortable. The view out the window in both rooms is exactly the same. The TV in both rooms gets the same channels. But the living room has more "ambiance." She actually used that word. This type of nonsense infuriates me -- that a person opts for more pain out of vanity and pride and that she expects ME to sympathize with that degree of irrationality. It is my disrespect for this mindset (evidenced in numerous other areas) which is pulling me out of this relationship more than anything else. I didn't see it early on. JoAnn is quite right. I should have taken more time.

Nor was I inclined to marry anyway. I am an only child. I have always done well alone. But there were several factors that led me to being swept off my feet when we met, including the very pleasant life we've had for the past year when all is going well.

Which upon careful review makes me feel like the biggest, shallowest, myopic, SOB that ever walked this earth. But I do NOT have the emotional resources to be given charge over the well-being of another person, only to watch my efforts fail so miserably in the most critical area of pain management, EVEN IF IT IS THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN.

That is where I am coming from.
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BarbBrooklyn Jul 2020
Charlie;

YOU are not failing at pain management. The doctor is failing at pain management. She needs better pain meds right now.

Are you not able to get an immediate appointment with a neurologist or has she seen one and is awaiting further testing?

Can the surgeon or her PCP get her neuro intake expedited? Is there pain management specialist she can see? Is she walking? I"m told that THAT's the best therapy after hip replacement.

I don't quite get your logic about the recliner vs the bed. If they recline in the same way, what's the difference? Or is that you want to be alone in the front room?

And no, you are NOT the biggest SOB in the world. (that title forever goes to the husband of someone I knew who walked out on her before she even came home from the hospital with their firstborn child. "I just can't do this" he said and left.

HE knew what he was getting into. You thought you had some better times ahead before one of you started getting feeble.

Google Jane Brody's columns on her knee replacements and pain management. Her pain was managed very poorly and it very much affected her recovery. I think what may be going on with you two is overload from pain, overwork and too much togetherness.

Can she pay for some help to come in to clean and do laundry so you can get out?

And please hear me on the PTSD thing. You would really benefit from talking to someone who knows about this stuff.

Get some clarity within yourself before you chuck it all.

(((((((hugs))))))))b
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You started your question by asking us if you are "wrong". I don't honestly think that right and wrong matter much here. Because we are talking an entire relationship here, and it cannot be decided on the basis of "right and wrong". I think that you may have entered knowing already that you partially treasure your time alone, but thinking romantically that it might be nice to share again, and etc. And now THIS.
I think there could be something very wrong with this hip thing. Others below have said that they see a lot of this after hip surgery, but I as an RN did not, and I worked ortho. Generally there was LESS pain after the hip OR than there was before. I cannot help but think something is wrong, and you may be walking now into opioid rebound pain and addiction as well. I do not know if she went to rehab, but something is wrong with this level of pain after all this time, so scans are in order to see what is happening.
That is mostly neither here nor there. At your ages anything could happen be it this or that, but things will be coming down the pike to each of you, and you can't know what those things are. All this bunk about the blessings of old age are basically just that.
So you are down to not just right and wrong, but to our human limitations. We all have them. For instance, on my strongest day I could not do what people here on the forum do daily, that being caring hands on in the home for an elder or a spouse. I just don't believe myself capable of it. I might hold up better with the partner of 30 years, because there were many years capable, full of joy, having our animals, traveling. And we fully know at 78 and 80 respectively something is on the way for one of us. But your circumstance? Sorry. I am not up to it.
I would, were I you, kindly and gently tell her that you never knew your own limitations, but now you are in the middle of this, that you are sorry, but you can't stay in the relationship. Tell her you would like to remain friends, and would like to give her some support, but that you cannot be THE support you wish you could be. Tell her what you told us basically. Will it hurt? Yes, it will. But it is the truth. The right and wrong doesn't matter. You can't do it. And you recognize that. This could mean decades of care giving, and yes, it could quite literally kill you.
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I want to comment Erroxy's post.

I worked with a woman who at the time was about 65. She had lost her husband to leukemia before we started working together. She started dating a man and they got along very well traveled together, went out to eat. She told me that she would never marry again. She cared for her husband and would not do it again. She had her home and BF had his. She is now in her late 90s. He passed a few years back. They were together till his death. My Uncle did the same thing. He remained in his home, his GF in hers. It does work. There are woman who want have their independence while having a relationship too. At my age, that is the way I would go.

I suggest you just step back a little and take ur time.
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erroxy Jul 2020
It seems to me your friend after taking care of her husband with leukemia "vowed" never to "marry" again because she would not want to take care of a husband again. Therefore, she "promised herself" not to enter into the deep commitment of marriage which is to love someone so deeply there is the element of "self-sacrifice". Remember the phrase "to love in sickness and in health till death does us part"?
That is the difference between deep love and just enjoying one another's company. You label your friend as desiring "independence" but in truth she doesn't want the burden that the deepest of love demands. While our society accepts divorce for many reasons, all society's and world cultures for that matter, frown on a husband or wife who abandon each other due to sickness.
I urged Charlie not to get involved with anyone because of his propensity to propose marriage and have someone move in with him. While your friend is a woman who could make the great distinction to not enter into a marriage knowing that it does involved the deepest of love and self-sacrifice, Charlie may not be capable of such self-restraint.
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SCCharlie, just wanted to make a comment about her hip pain. There is mounting evidence that metal replacement hips can be a problem for people who are sensitive or allergic to certain metals (but didn't know it prior to surgery).

"As many as 13% of people are sensitive to nickel, cobalt, or chromium; 17% of women and 3% of men are allergic to nickel, and 1-2% of people are allergic to cobalt, chromium, or both." (Source: https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1230696-overview)

Just tuck this info into your pocket in case she isn't progressing like she should. If you don't stick around it would be a mercy to let her know about this issue. Also, as BarbBrooklyn suggested, it could be an infection. My friend had a knee replacement last year and developed a MRSA infection. It was bad.
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Taking care of someone requires that you love them and are willing to self-sacrifice because of your love for them. Apparently that is not true in your case.

Tell her immediately you are not able to care for her and help her make arrangements.

Last piece of advice...do not get involved with anyone in the future. Most likely at your age you will not meet anyone who does not have the potential for health problems. Unless of course you hook up with a 24 year old.
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Isthisrealyreal Jul 2020
Sometimes love isn't enough.

When someone has tried to be a caregiver and it was tragic to their own health it is a good thing to know that you can not do it. There is no shame in that, but there is shame trying to degrade someone that is not able to be a caregiver.
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Charlie, I want to second what the previous poster said. Years ago, eminent science writer Jane Brody has a knee replacement . After a few days, she was still in agony. She called surgeon who told her to suck it up. She got a second opinion. She had developed some sort of infection, which was the source of the pain. Get your friend some help and talk about the marriage thing later.
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"Uncertain prospects of recovery "...are these your words, her words or the doctors?
I have to tell you, my husband has had 3 major hip surgeries...bilateral replacement, one after the other, and then years later a revision. There were never any questions about 100% recovery. Nor did he have the kind of pain after that you're describing. I would have her call her orthopedist ASAP to find out what is going on with this...this doesn't sound quite right to me...unless there's more going on than just hip replacement.
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No Charlie, you are not wrong to feel this way. I completely understand where you are coming from and caregiving has always made me wonder: what if after this journey is over and I go on with my life, what if I date someone and end up caring for that person? Honestly, I doubt if I would be up for doing this again. I started caring for my grandparents 4 years ago and it's been absolute hell- bedbugs, pneumonia, multiple falls, a pandemic that saw all three of us sick, my grandfather passed away from COVID19 and now my poor grandmother has shingles. Caregiving is the most difficult job on the planet, truly not for the faint of heart and not for everyone- that's okay. It doesn't mean you are any less of a person. I would not want to repeat this particular chapter of my history either, but rather look forward to better days ahead when it's all over.
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