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If your Sister is now on Medicaid then she has no income to pay her credit cards. Are you still dealing with the credit card company or a collection company? If the credit card company, then ask what proof they need that sister is now on Medicaid and no longer has an income. If now in the hands if a collection agency, same thing what proof do they need.
Once you prove that sister has no income you should get no more calls or requests for payment. If they do call, you tell them that proof was provided (send it certified mail you can get confirmation on-line of receipt) and to stop calling you and stop sending requests. At that point ignore them and contact the FTC if they continue to harrass you.
As a family member, you are not responsible for her debt.
"May I be more specific—my sister was on a Medicaid waiver at the AL, after two years of self pay and the spend-down. It was at this time we stopped paying the Visa and notified them that she was judgement proof. She paid the minimum until that time."
Is your sister’s AL paid for by Medicare? Most AL is user-pays, with only a couple of Medi beds. If sister has funds to pay AL, of course the creditors want it. If the money is coming from someone else, the creditors will do their best to get her debts paid as well.
I had this situation with my sister. After she went onto the Medicaid assisted-living waiver at her facility, she still had a $5000 Visa bill. Once you go onto Medicaid, you are what the lawyers call “judgment proof.” Here is a clip from an article; I will include the link as well.
“Because Medicaid takes the rest of her income, she will effectively have no money to pay the line of credit. The bank is now a “general unsecured creditor.” Since your mom has no income available and no assets left (having spent them down), she becomes what is known as “judgment proof.”
The bank can call or send letters, but they cannot garnish her Social Security (which is protected by federal law), and they cannot take money from Medicaid.”
Visa kept contacting my sister with pushy letters and aggressive phone calls that she stopped picking up. Then I sent several letters saying my sister was on Medicaid, had no money, and was legally considered “judgment proof.” Someone told me to use that specific term as they understand what it means at the credit card companies. After I sent about three of these, which I sent as faxes, they just stopped contacting her.
I don’t have a problem with not paying it, as my sister is cognitively impaired and disabled (on SSDI) and never should have been given a Visa card. She has been making minimum payments evidently for a lot of years. Her interest payments every month were crazy. She has given the credit card company far more than she ever spent in interest payments.
May I be more specific—my sister was on a Medicaid waiver at the AL, after two years of self pay and the spend-down. It was at this time we stopped paying the Visa and notified them that she was judgement proof. She paid the minimum until that time.
Is it the situation that your Sister is now on a State Medicaid “waiver” that is paying for her AL? I’m assuming she is and why you are posting, my answer is based on this being the case. Basically once on these programs, Sis will default on CC and any other debts. Like if she has a mortgage, it will go unpaid by her. Ditto for car loans. It’s really common for this to happen for those on LTC Medicaid program who are in a NH/SNF or those on a Medicaid waiver from either the LTC program or the HCBS program, as these programs require the resident to pay almost all her monthly income (like her SS $, pension) as a Share of Cost to the NH.
Share of Cost required unless they are married or have a dependent.
All she gets to keep is whatever her State has as its Personal Needs Allowance. PNA tend to be in the $50-$75 range & restricted spending. If she has made the NH her representative payee for her SSA, the NH gets her SS $ directly and they should be setting aside her PNA into an at-the-NH/AL resident trust account. She or her POA can go and make a withdrawal from it to buy things she needs. (My mom’s NH had an old fashioned ledger for withdrawals @ the business office & did a statement every 90 days & beauty shoppe paid from it every 2 weeks). PNA is - in theory - to be used for things not covered by living in the facility. So haircuts, clothing are ok. While mortgage, utilities are not.
CC seem to be a grey area for using PNA $…… but it tends not to make sense to pay CC as she will likely not ever be able to pay it off in full due to the Share of Cost requirement. So letting it default makes more sense as enables her to use PNA $ to get haircuts, some clothing and toiletries replacement, books, snacks. SS income cannot be attached by most creditors (like CC companies) by an judgement.
EXCEPT for “super creditors”, they can attach income. The “supers” are State and Fed governments. This is actually kinda important…… why? Well what will eventually happen is the Original Creditor/ OC will write the debt off. Could be done this 2026 tax year or could be 2027 or even 2028. Whichever will produce a 1099-C sent to your mom for the amount of the full Cancellation of the Debt. It will be what the balance was plus interest and whatever fees the OC can tack on. So a 15K VISA and 8K Macys CC can morph into a $ 19,876 and a $10,987 1099-Cs. Here is what’s important: 1099-C IS TAXABLE INCOME that is reported to the IRS. Like for the example, it would be $30,863 in taxable income reported to the IRS. Sis is expected to pay taxes AND BECAUSE the IRS is a supercreditor, they can attach some of her SS income if taxes are not paid. Which is a problem as due to Medicaid’s SOC requirements, she can’t do both the SOC and have IRS attach some of her monthly income.
What will need to happen is for you to get a CPA or tax pro to do taxes for her for the year(s) she gets the 1099-C. They will do a Form 982 to deal with the debt to hopefully get it excluded from taxable income. So it’s not owed = no supercreditor attachment happens. Imo it’s not really something you can DIY. Mom can use whatever $ she has for assets to pay for this. Most States allow those on LTC & waiver Medicaid to have up to 2K in exempt assets. A couple of States allow for higher assets.
ALSO: When she defaults, the OC will write the debt off AND will sell the debt to a debt collector. They will be relentless in trying to find anyone to assume the responsibility for the debt. It will be resold to an ever lower level of debt collector. Then again & again. Relentless. So please pls do a bit of research to help decide on how you will deal with this as you do NOT want to ever get caught off guard and inadvertently take the responsibility for her debts.
Going into assisted living does not erase someone's debts when they owe money. If your sister has credit card debt she is responsible for it being paid out of her funds. No one else is responsible for paying it. The credit card companies will often try to get family to pay it, but you are not legally obligated to pay even if you're the POA. If there's no money, there's no money. The credit card company will have to absorb the loss. Credit cards being recklessly run up and not paid for is the reason why even people with excellent credit have to pay huge interest.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If now in the hands if a collection agency, same thing what proof do they need.
Once you prove that sister has no income you should get no more calls or requests for payment. If they do call, you tell them that proof was provided (send it certified mail you can get confirmation on-line of receipt) and to stop calling you and stop sending requests. At that point ignore them and contact the FTC if they continue to harrass you.
As a family member, you are not responsible for her debt.
"May I be more specific—my sister was on a Medicaid waiver at the AL, after two years of self pay and the spend-down. It was at this time we stopped paying the Visa and notified them that she was judgement proof. She paid the minimum until that time."
“Because Medicaid takes the rest of her income, she will effectively have no money to pay the line of credit. The bank is now a “general unsecured creditor.” Since your mom has no income available and no assets left (having spent them down), she becomes what is known as “judgment proof.”
The bank can call or send letters, but they cannot garnish her Social Security (which is protected by federal law), and they cannot take money from Medicaid.”
Visa kept contacting my sister with pushy letters and aggressive phone calls that she stopped picking up. Then I sent several letters saying my sister was on Medicaid, had no money, and was legally considered “judgment proof.” Someone told me to use that specific term as they understand what it means at the credit card companies. After I sent about three of these, which I sent as faxes, they just stopped contacting her.
I don’t have a problem with not paying it, as my sister is cognitively impaired and disabled (on SSDI) and never should have been given a Visa card. She has been making minimum payments evidently for a lot of years. Her interest payments every month were crazy. She has given the credit card company far more than she ever spent in interest payments.
Here is the link to the article:
https://www.elderlawanswers.com/what-happens-to-my-moms-debt-while-on-medicaid-21502
Credit card companies are not allowed to touch either Medicaid or Social Security.
Share of Cost required unless they are married or have a dependent.
All she gets to keep is whatever her State has as its Personal Needs Allowance. PNA tend to be in the $50-$75 range & restricted spending. If she has made the NH her representative payee for her SSA, the NH gets her SS $ directly and they should be setting aside her PNA into an at-the-NH/AL resident trust account. She or her POA can go and make a withdrawal from it to buy things she needs. (My mom’s NH had an old fashioned ledger for withdrawals @ the business office & did a statement every 90 days & beauty shoppe paid from it every 2 weeks). PNA is - in theory - to be used for things not covered by living in the facility. So haircuts, clothing are ok. While mortgage, utilities are not.
CC seem to be a grey area for using PNA $…… but it tends not to make sense to pay CC as she will likely not ever be able to pay it off in full due to the Share of Cost requirement. So letting it default makes more sense as enables her to use PNA $ to get haircuts, some clothing and toiletries replacement, books, snacks. SS income cannot be attached by most creditors (like CC companies) by an judgement.
EXCEPT for “super creditors”, they can attach income. The “supers” are State and Fed governments. This is actually kinda important…… why? Well what will eventually happen is the Original Creditor/ OC will write the debt off. Could be done this 2026 tax year or could be 2027 or even 2028. Whichever will produce a 1099-C sent to your mom for the amount of the full Cancellation of the Debt. It will be what the balance was plus interest and whatever fees the OC can tack on. So a 15K VISA and 8K Macys CC can morph into a $ 19,876 and a $10,987 1099-Cs. Here is what’s important: 1099-C IS TAXABLE INCOME that is reported to the IRS. Like for the example, it would be $30,863 in taxable income reported to the IRS. Sis is expected to pay taxes AND BECAUSE the IRS is a supercreditor, they can attach some of her SS income if taxes are not paid. Which is a problem as due to Medicaid’s SOC requirements, she can’t do both the SOC and have IRS attach some of her monthly income.
What will need to happen is for you to get a CPA or tax pro to do taxes for her for the year(s) she gets the 1099-C. They will do a Form 982 to deal with the debt to hopefully get it excluded from taxable income. So it’s not owed = no supercreditor attachment happens. Imo it’s not really something you can DIY. Mom can use whatever $ she has for assets to pay for this. Most States allow those on LTC & waiver Medicaid to have up to 2K in exempt assets. A couple of States allow for higher assets.
ALSO: When she defaults, the OC will write the debt off AND will sell the debt to a debt collector. They will be relentless in trying to find anyone to assume the responsibility for the debt. It will be resold to an ever lower level of debt collector. Then again & again. Relentless. So please pls do a bit of research to help decide on how you will deal with this as you do NOT want to ever get caught off guard and inadvertently take the responsibility for her debts.