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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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Dad lives in home now with progressing dementia. He can afford private care for about 7 yrs before needing state assistance. Should we put house in both dependents' name to "save" it from being sold to pay for future care?
This is my opinion. Sell the house now. It will be well over the 5 year look back. Medicaid requires Market Value. Sell before 5 year look back and that won't matter. But this is why I say sell it.
My Mom had 7 areas of land her big old 125 yr old Farm house sat on. I found that Dad never had the state come in to determine what was wetlands and what was not. I could have had the house sold in a week if he had done this. But instead it sat. I was able to place Mom for a while in a nice AL. My nephew and grandson paid the utilities, I used Moms SS to pay the taxes. Once Mom was on Medicaid the paying of the taxes stopped. I was constantly on the boys to keep the place clean for house tours. I took spare time to clean it out. 60 yrs of junk. Mom passed, the house hadn't sold. I found my nephew someplace to live and grandson moved in with an Aunt. Now I was seriously able to really clean out. But in the meantime taxes were piling up, I was paying out of pocket and the house was getting worse. We were constantly going over to check on water damage. Just about the time I was ready to turn everything off and walk away, a man offered me half of the asking price and I took it. It paid everything off, I recouped my out of pocket, and my siblings and I got a little something.
See, Medicaid is stricted with who can live in the house. They allow for caregivers, disabled children and people who have been residents. But proof is needed to show they can keep the bills and upkeep paid. Renting it maybe allowed but that money goes to the persons care and Medicaid follows HUD guidelines concerning how much rent needs to be gotten. For me, it was an albatross around my neck. I so wish I had talked Mom into selling after Dad died, 11 yrs earlier. I plan on putting my house into a trust so my girls don't go what I went thru.
MisterBill knows what he is talking about, but see that you do also. See a Lawyer in State involved who understands Elder Law and Trust and Estate. Doing this WRONG will end in an elder at home in your care with no help with payment due to 5 year look back, and with legal questions that can make Lawyers rich. Playing by the rules is one thing, but be certain the rules are understood from every angle. Home should be sold at fair market value, and fund put in Dad's name, I would guess. Giving him a "monthly payment" could work against him, giving him not enough to afford care, but too much to qualify for help. Be exceptionally careful. You are entering the legal dark forest.
mom & dad are divorced and mom is less fortunate and will require state assistance after only 1 year probably. She is selling her home now to move closer to one daughter who will assume most of the cost to care for her.
Dad lives in MS, Mom lives in FL. One sister in ID (takes care of dad in MS) while working from his home during COVID. One sister lives in MN (who is an essential worker & travels to south to care for both parents every 6 wks)
I don't want my sister to give up everything in ID to not have a job or house when dad is no longer able to live in the home. I (POA) either pays her monthly for all she does or I gift her the house after dad passes.
Morally wrong? I just think it will be cleaner to have house in our names before he passes to make transition easier.
Mom is helping fill the gaps of care right now until COVID is over and they've been divorced for 42 years. We are all giving up something & trying but we aren't a close family (physically or emotionally).
Yes, as long as he won't need to apply for Medicaid for 5 years, have him transfer the house. It is done all the time, there is nothing wrong with it, and it is playing by the rules. Be aware some folks on this forum may cry foul, but it is perfectly legal and ethical.
I can understand it not being "the right thing to do" but it is legal and as a vet he has served his country and is able to pay for approximately 7 years on his own. There will be no inheritance and that is fine. The home would be to "pay" for the care my sister does for him during COVID and until he is "forced" to live in a facility.
I do not see anything morally wrong with planning within the legal constraints of Medicaid law. The very wealthy plan around estate tax, do we consider that morally wrong? 7 years of private pay is a lot. How old is dad, are these his daughters or his sisters, and how old are they? Are they the only children, or will someone else cry not fair.
Medicaid will only look back to transfers within 5 years. It will not impact Medicaid eligibility. I would look carefully at facilities that will accept Medicaid when private pay runs out.
the two sisters are the only dependents and both agree to paying as much as possible for dad's care because that is what he would want. Sister gets paid now & reduces the private care years before house is sold or we take house as "payment" for years of care. Thanks for all the feedback - love this forum for the support and views from other side.
Why shouldn’t his assets, including his home, be used to pay for his care? Medicaid is a government program for people in poverty situations, it’s not a program to pay for care because the family is hiding assets or wants them for themselves
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My Mom had 7 areas of land her big old 125 yr old Farm house sat on. I found that Dad never had the state come in to determine what was wetlands and what was not. I could have had the house sold in a week if he had done this. But instead it sat. I was able to place Mom for a while in a nice AL. My nephew and grandson paid the utilities, I used Moms SS to pay the taxes. Once Mom was on Medicaid the paying of the taxes stopped. I was constantly on the boys to keep the place clean for house tours. I took spare time to clean it out. 60 yrs of junk. Mom passed, the house hadn't sold. I found my nephew someplace to live and grandson moved in with an Aunt. Now I was seriously able to really clean out. But in the meantime taxes were piling up, I was paying out of pocket and the house was getting worse. We were constantly going over to check on water damage. Just about the time I was ready to turn everything off and walk away, a man offered me half of the asking price and I took it. It paid everything off, I recouped my out of pocket, and my siblings and I got a little something.
See, Medicaid is stricted with who can live in the house. They allow for caregivers, disabled children and people who have been residents. But proof is needed to show they can keep the bills and upkeep paid. Renting it maybe allowed but that money goes to the persons care and Medicaid follows HUD guidelines concerning how much rent needs to be gotten. For me, it was an albatross around my neck. I so wish I had talked Mom into selling after Dad died, 11 yrs earlier. I plan on putting my house into a trust so my girls don't go what I went thru.
Dad lives in MS, Mom lives in FL. One sister in ID (takes care of dad in MS) while working from his home during COVID. One sister lives in MN (who is an essential worker & travels to south to care for both parents every 6 wks)
I don't want my sister to give up everything in ID to not have a job or house when dad is no longer able to live in the home. I (POA) either pays her monthly for all she does or I gift her the house after dad passes.
Morally wrong? I just think it will be cleaner to have house in our names before he passes to make transition easier.
Mom is helping fill the gaps of care right now until COVID is over and they've been divorced for 42 years. We are all giving up something & trying but we aren't a close family (physically or emotionally).
Medicaid will only look back to transfers within 5 years. It will not impact Medicaid eligibility. I would look carefully at facilities that will accept Medicaid when private pay runs out.
Thanks for all the feedback - love this forum for the support and views from other side.