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I have posted about a week ago about my dad trying to convince me to get him out of AL. He is 87, with some degree of dementia, on top of numerous personality disorder issues and controlling issues...



Well, I thought things had turned around. Rather than a studio room , there is a 1 BR apartment available in the AL, that they have offered to him, and he can afford. He seemed enthusiastic about it, and asked me to talk to them about it, contingent on making some renovations to the room which I negotiated with them and are underway. I spend some time discussing what changes should occur, and agreed with them that he will move in contingent on these changes.
Then, today when I visited, he sprung on me that " I need to get out of assited living ASAP " and " I want to buy a house near you and get 24/7 in house caretakers. "



I told him that I dont have time to help in buying / selling a house and setting this all up. He agreed that " yes I dont want to take your time up but help me setting this up"
I tried to say " you need to stay in assisted living, no way this will work" . but somehow in discussion/ argument settled that, the only way I would support this is if we hire on a geriatric care managment company to arrange all this and work with you and a realtor and caretaker agenices to set it all up, and I will be out of the loop.



Let me say that he has the money in estate to fund this, if for a short period of time. He thinks he is " only going to live a couple more years' . he is 87, but to me, who knows that he may live another 10 years.



anyway, I said that I do NOT agree with trying to buy a house and live in your own house at this stage, even with expensive 24/7 care at $30,000 a month, even if you can afford it, is not a good idea.
but he tonight seemed insistent on it. I told him that if he does this he is either 1) on his own, I wont be involved, or 2) I'll provide him with a geriatric care management company to help him and elder care attorney, and thats all I do.
Then I second guessed myself and wondered, " could I help with this?" in another post I mentioned how narcissistic, and micromanging he is. I helped him buy a house 10 years ago and it almost killed me in the process. I could not do it again I think ....
anyway, during an argument I said that I cannot support getting your own house, but if you insist, I'll retain a geriatric care management company, at cost of $200/hour and they can help me. somehow he seemed to still want me to do the work. So I stormed out of his AL room and said, " well you are on your own". not a pleasant thing. As I walked down the hallway of the AL, he was yelling down the hall calling my name desperately.
Then, 20 mins later, while I was driving home he called me and said " I'll do whatever you say. I beg of you please listen, I'll do what you tell me". this was after 2 hours of him trying to dictate out to me what I should do! He then was anxious to know when I would next visit in person. I said " Im busy the next day or two, but you can call me tomorrow night, and then we will see when I will come by"



I said " well, step 1 is, you cant get out of AL in a hurry. you have to stay there a while. Then also, to buy a house etc will take some time. you have to put up with it for some time. " and 2) if you really want to get your own house and 24/7 care, I dont have time to do it. Take me out of the loop. We can hire a geriatric care management company to help and they will charge out of your estate $200/hour of work they do. He said " yes, yes, whatever it takes"
well, I guess I'm running my inheritance down into the ground, but thats all I can do. I sure am not going to take my personal time to look for a house and nit pik along with him as he really wants. I'm glad to just take zero inheritance at this time.
ok Im just venting I guess. but also looking to see if you all think I could have handled this differently.

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Dad needs at least a month at his new & bigger apartment. Face it right now, with the Holidays upon us, there is going to be lots of commotion at the AL and it will be especially confusing for him. So prepare yourself. Also even if he was a fit, less demanding, more cognitive 87 yr old nothing is going to happened to move into a new place this time of year

If you haven’t found a Geriatric Case Manager, perhaps make that your priority and one to start asap.

Also has dad had a “needs assessment” done? If so how recent and did it show he was suitable for AL? Just asking as he sounds like more MC resident. Perhaps a MC sector within an AL? Being in MC will cut down on his having to make quite so many decisions. Those phone calls to you are to seek out help in decision making, is my guess.

I’d be concerned that he will start to do escape artist actions if he’s in AL. They cannot keep him from freely leaving. While MC can make it more of a very challenging engineering problem to exit…… and they get distracted and go onto something else, rather than try to exit.

Oh and Sonny, get some sleep!
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You handled it excellent. Tough love and setting clear boundaries. Now just don't cave when the begging starts again.

I'd be asking him, "What's your big hurry? After I just negotiated an upgrade, you want to suddenly drop that entire plan and get a HOUSE? With 24/7 caregivers that cost a fortune? Your money will be gone quick, then what?"

Throw on some GUILT...."Why should I help you arrange ANYTHING, if you are going to change your mind just after I've gone to all this trouble for you?"

I'd want to know what is so AWFUL about the AL? Doesn't he have to sell his house to get another one? That is major stress right there. Probably planning on buying a house near you, to call you constantly and drive you crazy?

I'd give him the number of a Geriatric Care company, and tell him, "You are on your own. I'm done." He thinks you'll take care of everything while he complains, like every other adult child of a dementia senior? His brain is focused on himself, and it will only get worse. He's used to ordering you around, running the show. Look how he CAVED when you stood strong on your position. Don't let him control you or take away the prime of your life! You don't get that time back.

He's 87 and had his long life. What he fantasizes about and what he NEEDS are entirely different. Stay strong!
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Tell your father buying a house and making the necessary changes is out of the question. It will take too long.

Your father’s brain is broken . Stop negotiating with him . He would not be able to pull this off unless you helped him or hired someone to help him . My mother used to say she was leaving AL also , said she was going to call a taxi . She never did . You did the right thing walking out.
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in my experience I have never observed “…..some degree of dementia…..”

If you have any sense that your father’s cognitive functioning is declining, you owe it to both him AND YOURSELF to arrange for him to be assessed by a psychiatrist, psychologist, or social worker trained in geriatric care.

Ask the administrator or medical supervisor at his AL if they can recommend geriatric behavioral specialist that they work with.

When I needed this service in a situation similar to yours, arrangements were made promptly and the examiner came to the AL, and included me in the assessment, seated behind LO, to indicate by nodding my head ”yes” or “no” when LO was answering accurately (or not).

Hard as it was to hear and be a part of, that evaluation confirmed our original concerns and allowed us to assume responsibilities as POAs, and most important to realize that LO was a vulnerable victim of dementia, in need of our care and concern, but no longer able to have reasonable judgment in terms of her own welfare.

Do this both for him, and also for yourself. You deserve to make needed decisions with a clear picture of what you and he are dealing with.

Be good to yourself. This is never easy.
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BurntCaregiver Dec 18, 2023
@Ann

If the father is in the earlier stages of dementia it's easy to get one over during an assessment with a bit o showtiming.

People pass dementia tests all the time even when dementia is obvious to the people who see them everyday.
The testers do not care what a caregiver or family member has to say.

No one can showtime 24/7 and that's when they run into trouble.
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You don't have to do anything to help your father with this insane plan just say NO. No I am not helping you find and buy a house. No I am not setting up services for you. No. No. No.

I think you should stop seeing and talking to your dad for a few weeks. He has no business buying a house and it's ridiculous for him to have 24/7 care givers.

Assisted living is suitable for someone in his mental state. You really need to start standing up to your dad instead of letting him run the show.
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This is one crazy plan, you are being manipulated, you are falling for his drama.

Take a hiatus from your father so that you can think straight.

He is where he belongs, they all try and pull that crap he is pulling on you. His brain is broken he is not making sound decisions.

Actually, he most likely should be in MC. Move him to the apartment and let it be.

Tell him when his doctor says in writing that he can leave you will take it into consideration. Get a handle on this, don't cave.

No is a complete sentence stick to it.
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When the plumbing backs up at 3 am, who is he going to call?
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waytomisery Dec 18, 2023
Best one sentence answer .
I love this !!!
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Strugglinson, I made it clear to my dad, same situation as you, that he was free to do whatever he could do. That means I don't help in any way, shape or form. If he is fine, prove it.

My dad did, he bought a truck, drove himself right out of his board and care home, 400 miles away from me. Found a small trailer and lived his last years on his terms.

Sometimes we just have to step away and let them succeed or fail without any input from us.

It was hard to watch, I knew the condition he was in when we were called to help and I knew that he would end up right back in that condition but, it was his life and as long as he could do what needed doing, go for it. But! No help, not even finding a geriatric case manager because he should be able to find the help he needs if he is functioning on a full charge, if not, he stays were he is.

Becoming the reasoning adult to your parent is hard and goes against everything that we are taught as children. It is also really hard to be the bad guy but, we have to do what we believe is the best when they can no longer do it.

So, if he can arrange this grand scheme without your input at all, then he gets to move, otherwise, welcome home dad.
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strugglinson Dec 18, 2023
thanks. My dad admits that he cant do much on his own. Hence why he panicked, called my back, and begged me that he will supposedly now do what I say.
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Don't help him buy a house and don't arrange a geriatric care manager for him either.
You say the AL he's in is decent and they've given him the available apartment instead of just a room. That's good. He belongs there.

If he wants to leave on his own and buy another house at his age and everything else, let him. Don't help him do it and when he gets hiimself into trouble and likely will, don't help him then either. That would be when it's time for the geriatric care manager and that time is not now.

Take the advice of Isthisrealyreal in the comments. It is good advice. You have to let him succeed or fail with no imput from you.
It's hard but that's what you have to do.
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You are trying to reason and negotiate with someone with a cracked mind, which is actively in the process of becoming fully broken.

I think you just need to decide how involved you want to be. 100% in, 100% out... not sure you can be only 50% in/out because as his mind declines he won't be able to keep up his end of "the bargain" in the future. Are you his PoA? If not, this would be condition of helping him -- if he has legal capacity to assign you.

Depending on what state you both reside in, he may be able to pay you for providing in-home care, management and assistance. You would need to find out from an elder law attorney in your state. In Minnesota where I live, a person requiring a caregiver can hire their family member to work for them, allowing them to receive compensation. The family member must first enroll as a personal care assistant to become eligible for this home-care program. Not sure if there is a limit to how much he can pay you. There may need to be a contract, but an attorney would know this. This way, he gets you to care for him, and you get paid to do what you *know* is going to be a difficult job (and also get your inheritance little by little). Just putting this out as an option, but you'd have to think long and hard about spending that much time with him every day, day after day. But don't support him buying a house that needs a lot of upkeep. Maybe a 1-level townhouse or condo, of a senior living community.

A geriatric manager won't have the legal authority to purchase a house or any real estate (as a PoA can be enabled to). They are in high demand and there's not many of them so I'd find one first and talk to them about the limits of what they can and will do with your Dad. A GM may be the answer, or not. They usually have more than 1 client, so your Dad's needs may not be able to get addressed as soon as he or you assume. Get the facts first before committing to this arrangement. What would cause a GM to drop a client (if this is a thing that happens)?

Or, he signs a pre-need guardianship legal document. If you step away 100%, this means no PoA for you. Maybe he'll assign someone else, or a professional PoA (like a lawyer) and a 3rd party guardian. If he doesn't do this a judge will assign a guardian for him.

But if you attempt to keep one foot in and one out, you may be dragged along for a ride. If your Dad doesn't have any other health issues, he may live more than 10 years. My Aunt for whom I am PoA is on her way to being 105.

Try to remember that whatever his current cognitive and physical state is right now, it will not stay at this level of function. He isn't thinking he will decline but you must, in order to make a wise decision.
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sp196902 Dec 18, 2023
That would mean OP would have to quit their job. I say no way to that. OP did not have a very good relationship with their father (if I am remembering correctly). They do not want to live with dad and wipe his behind and anything else dad may need 24/7.

I don't agree that they need to be all in or all out completely. But they do need to stop catering to dads wants and set up what dad needs and ignore dads complaining and unreasonable demands and expectations. If they don't dad will consume the OP like the infamous blob from the movie: The Blob.

The OP is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off trying to please dad and make dad happy. OP needs to realize nothing is going to make dad happy.

Stay strong OP on moving dad into his own house. You can do this!!!
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You need to stop this.
This is very harmful to your Dad, and it must stop.

You need to tell your father that he is no longer competent to make this decision and that he cannot any longer care for himself. That this ALF is his home now, and that is NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

No argument. No discussion. End of subject.
Then you tell him calmly that when this subject comes up you will be leaving, or hanging up the phone.

IF your father is competent enough to call his own attorney, leave his own care, buy his own home, then he will do so, right? And you should resign any POA you have at that point.
But he isn't. So he won't.

You are making this into a big deal and a huge issue with all this guesswork about costs and attorneys and what places to live.
Your Dad is 87 and is requiring in- facility care.
You will never get him to adjust as long as you keep discussing and arguing this.
Stop it at once.

I think it is time for you to meet with the admins at the facility where your Dad is and to take their advice, even if that advice is to cut way down on calls and visits for a while. Your Dad is having trouble adjusting to in facility care and that is normal, but you being wishy-washy about it is going to harm him and going to delay his adjustment enormously.

And if you truly think your Dad could be out on his own? TRULY??? Then I have to wonder.
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Southernwaver Dec 18, 2023
This is true. OP is just dragging this nonsense out to the detriment of a man with dementia.
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Okay, so dad is winning this round. You need to disappear for a while.

It's the holidays, the most wonderful time of the year! You have things to do besides pick up dad's phone calls, going to see dad, listening to dad's complaints, dealing with his demands, and so on. Tell him you both need a cooling off period, or a break from idiocy, or something. Stick to no-contact for a while. Believe me, dad will be busy at AL with their plans to keep residents happy. If he doesn't see or talk to you, he'll survive. They always do.

Then after a month or so or whenever you think you can get back to Daddy Dearest without throwing up, do it. Then what? Methinks the drama will continue.

Or maybe you don't get back to him.

Whatever, you don't help him get a house. You don't provide a geriatric manager. You do.......nothing. Oh, maybe wish him a happy new year, but WAIT.....

He'll want to draw you back in, but the man has dementia. His brain is turning to mush and has holes in it! He can't handle decision-making. He is in no way able to live on his own.

Don't quit your job. Don't move him in with you. That's my advice and I'm sticking to it.
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Tiredniece23 Dec 18, 2023
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Agree whole heartedly.
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"Dad, you have a choice: you move into the new apartment at this AL with my help, or you stay put where you are. That's it. No move into a new home with caregivers coming in, that's NOT POSSIBLE I'M SORRY. No geriatric care managers will be hired, nothing. Your condition is such that it requires you to be in AL."

You are allowing a man with dementia to call the shots here, meaning you've agreed to jump down the rabbit hole WITH him.

Go back to your last post and read the comments a few times. This has nothing to do with inheritance, which will be run into the ground one way or another.....but about what's safe and REASONABLE for BOTH of you. Dad is at YOUR mercy, as evidenced by him saying, "I'll do whatever you say. I beg of you please listen, I'll do what you tell me". Tell him what he has to do now.
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againx100 Dec 18, 2023
Listen to LEA!!! Do not LET him do any of this nonsense of getting out of AL. No way. Not possible. He can whine and complain all he wants but do not let him move out. The only places he should be allowed to move are into memory care when the time is right or a nursing home if his body fails before his mind.
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I would like to be queen of England. Is that going to happen?

Turn your phone off and take a vacation. You do not need to be involved in his daily manufactured drama.

I have one of my sisters turned off right now because I’m sick and I don’t need her daily drama she makes for her own entertainment that she decided would be fun to somehow try and drag me into. I don’t even know if she realizes she is turned off because I didn’t say anything. I just did it.
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strugglinson Dec 18, 2023
this in an interesting idea. I think he would completely break down if I went completely absent. Which, perhaps is ok, but I suspect he will start calling all sorts of family who will track me down. Or might come up with an emergency so he gets the AL to call me or something. He would totally panic.
But I think what I'll do is, not visit in person for a while. I think I'm more liable to give in when in person than by phone. Will limit to some phone calls (on my time) only for a while.
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Your dad proved to you that he needs help by pleading for your support. Even though he’s delusional, he can’t follow through with his plans to buy a home on his own.

You are the one who is holding all of the cards in this game. You have the winning hand. So, don’t fret over what he is saying. You know that it’s best for him to remain in his assisted living facility.

So, why would you consider pacifying your dad at this point in time? It’s only going to lead him to believe that there may be a possibility of him being able to successfully live alone in a home when he can’t.

I understand that you’re at your wits end. He’s pulling your strings. Don’t agree to be his puppet.

You can either ignore his remarks or you can tell him that you are not going to be involved in his plans to buy a home.

No one, not you or I, or anyone else gets everything they want in life. He is being provided with his needs and that is what matters most.

Best wishes to you.
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As his dementia progresses and he forgets what you tell him why he has to stay in a facility …..you just say , “ You need to be where there are nurses”. Or “ until the doctors say”.
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If you are not going to be involved who will sign all the legal papers that go with the purchase of a house?
If you are POA it would be your responsibility.
With a diagnosis of dementia and and active POA he legally can not enter into a contract.

I suppose you could make the house hunt/search an almost impossible task. the restriction you put on it is that the house HAS to meet the following criteria.
Ranch
Handicap accessible
No carpet
Wide halls
Wide doorways
Roll in shower with 1 bathroom being a "wet room"
If there are stairs anywhere in or out of the house there needs to be ramps in place.
Any porch or deck area needs to be gated so that if he ever becomes a flight risk the gates can be locked.
The yard that he would have access to needs to be gated as well.
and if you want to make it more difficult
The stove must be Induction so it will shut off if accidently turned on and no pan is placed on the burner. (also safe if a towel or anything other than an induction safe item is placed on a burner, they will not burn)
Getting all that is like looking for a Purple Unicorn.
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strugglinson Dec 18, 2023
He would want to buy a house and make all these modifications, and guess who gets to arrange all the modifications etc.....
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Strugglinson, I would encourage you to NOT go no contact with your dad. He needs you and walking away because he has a broken brain is cruel, imo. He needs you to keep his train on the tracks. You can do this, you just have to learn that you can say "No Dad, I can't possibly do that." Hard, guilt inducing and anger making, you betcha! But, easier with each NO. I promise.
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AlvaDeer Dec 18, 2023
I am thinking, if he has so little understanding of dementia that he is handling his Dad's wishes to leave in the manner that he is he could be doing more harm there than good at this point. I think it would be wise that he turns to the phone a while and lets Dad get adjusted where he is. The whole post about going into such depths over cost of apartments, finding apartments, hiring care as his poor dad is attempting to leave was a bit scary. This shows too much wanting of common sense and this confusion is going to harm his dad much more than his absence for a while I am thinking.
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I have to agree with Alva, you have no understanding of Dementia. It is no longer what Dad wants its what he needs. This is where he needs to stay. But, you are never going to get him to understand that. In his mind he is capable of doing anything he wants. He has no idea of his limitations. Like a toddler, he wants what he wants. Everyday you can explain that he cannot be on his own and everyday he has forgotten what you told him the day before. You can tell him one more time "Dad you can do anything you want but do not expect me to help. You can call the realtor, the moving people, the care agency to set up aides, have someone help u buy furniture but I won't help. You know Dad will not be able to do any of this. Its now time to redirect him. "I don't have time right now Dad. Maybe after the first of the year. We will talk about it then" If you visiting sets this off, visit less often. Continuing phone calls, don't answer. When u do answer, tell him "Dad I am busy, we'll talk about it another day" You need to understand he is in his own little world. With my Mom things kept flitting thru her mind. I would answer her and she would be in another subject.

Its time for little white fibs. "Lets discuss that tomorrow" and then change the subject. There is no way Dad will be able to do what he wants on his own, maybe even with your help. He can no longer sign a contract of any kind. He does not need a house for one. You are stressing yourself over something that can't or never will happen.

Maybe, as suggested, you need a vacation. Dad is safe where he is. Block him from calling. Tell the AL to call u only if an emergency. Your Dad will worsen and will need Memory care. ALs can only do so much. See if any ALs in you areas give seminars on Dementia and ALZ. It will help u understand what is happening to Dad. We have all been there and its hard to get thru your head that your parent cannot be reasoned with anymore. That they no longer understand.
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Also, I say this with love: you aren’t getting his approval. He isn’t going to say he loves you and appreciates your hard work and that he is proud of you.

I’m sorry. In his mind, it’s all about him because that is what dementia is.
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Struggling, one of my grad school professors has an older sister with dementia. After much struggle, she was able to get her sister into a wonderful Memory Care unit by telling her that work needed to be done on her apartment (a therapeutic fib of the sort that is often advised here).

The sister is quite content EXCEPT when her sister visits. She screams "when can I go back to my apartment?". She is perfectly content around other family members.

Sadly, my professor has decided she can't visit sis anymore, as she is a huge trigger. Her kids, her husband, friends all visit and it's fine.

Consider that in the short term, you may be triggering for dad.
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Thanks for all of the great answers.
Yes, I realize now that I'm still half way down the rabbit hole. I need to get myself out before its too late. Reading these forums has helped a lot.

I do need to read up more about dementia.

_Strugglin'
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Mary1159 Jan 1, 2024
I feel for you, our situation is so much the same. I am headed over now to visit my Mom. I am actually sick to my stomach over it. I know she has to stay there as does man older brother. We know she is totally unable to care for herself at her home any longer.

She also is in a Studio room and we do have her on a waiting list for a one bedroom. Her room is very pretty though, bright and a beautiful view of gardens outside her window. After one of her falls, she had to recover in a NH for a short time and we had lined up a one bedroom at the AL for her to go into, but she refused to go, therefore lost that availability and who knows when the next one bedroom will come....but she absolutely cannot go home.

She has always been a negative person and I believe Narcissistic as well. She steaming mad every time I go to see her and it makes the visit extremely uncomfortable. So today.....I am going to pray first, then head over with my chin up and visit. Should it become uncomfortable for me at any point, I will let her know I love her but cannot stay and visit with arguing happening. it is no productive for her and me.

So here I go.......I will report back later today and let you all know how it went. Meanwhile, I am praying for EVERYONE on this site, to be strong and make decisions that will be productive for their loved one as well as themselves. Such a site of awesome folks, I can't thank you all enough!
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He’ll probably forget the whole conversation tomorrow. If this fantasy of buying a new house with 24/7 care, YOU and only YOU would be the 24/7 caregiver. Hired help decide not to show up. You’ll have nervous breakdown. Leave him where he is. A studio is good enough for now. He’s probably going to need much higher level of care like memory care or nursing home down the dementia road. Good luck & don’t take what he says too seriously. In addition, btw, when I took my 90 year old mother home from nursing home in 2017 after she was there 10 months, I figured it would probably be a year or 2…Well, now she’s 96 & 8 months ago I put her back into same place. I turn 65 this month. I put my life on hold. Believe me, caregiving for an elderly dementia parent is not a fun job, but it IS A FULL TIME JOB. Hugs 🤗
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strugglinson Dec 22, 2023
CaregiverL, I think you are spot on.
Thanks to everyone on this forum for educating and enlightening me. Thanks ! Thanks! Thanks!

Today is 4 days after the argument/ me storming out. No further discussion about that incident, and he may have mostly forgotten about it (but my repeated phone calls have dropped, so something clicked/ registered in subconscience...).
no more talk about moving to a house.
Today I visited, because we had planned that I would pick him up at 6:30 PM, right after the AL dinner , and take him to the store for some shopping. I got there at 6:30 PM and he was not at dinner. I went to his room, and found that he was in his PJ's and said to me, "why are you here at 6:30 AM?" the rest of the time was spent discussing "how" he could have flipped AM and PM and become totally time disoriented. Of course, now I know there is a simple reason, dementia. I was very calm and hopefully supportive in this. At the same time, I think he may have realized his brain really is not working well.

As for the room, staying at current Al vs other AL, or going elsewhere, in my mind, going to a home is out of the question. Even going to another AL right now is not an option. I told him essentially there are only 2 options on the table: 1) move to the 1 BR nice unit in the same AL that is only 20% more rent than the studio ( a great deal in my mind) or 2) stay in your studio. No other options. IN other words, in my mind, he should not leave the current facility . Personally, moving to the 1 BR unit in the current AL should be a slam dunk decision! But dad is throwing up complaints about the 1 BR unit still, silly stuff. If so, fine, stay in the studio. the reasons to NOT be in the studio are not rational to me. Whether he stays in the studio or moves to the 1 BR in the same AL, is a minor issue now in my mind, thanks to you all.

Going back home is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! thanks to a recent significant change in my frame of mind , thanks to your feedback. There is no reason to try to follow the "wants" of a person in significant dementia when it conflicts with what he needs. I went through his recent medical records from rehab hosp in Sept 2023 , which I hadnt gone through in detail. They rated him as a moderate cognitive impairment, BIMS score 8, and that he needs 24/7 care. BIMS score 8 is moderate cognitive impairment, but at the cusp of severe.
To me, he has deteriorated further as far as cognitive status since then. I'm beginning even to wonder if shift from regular AL to memory care may be needed soon.
thanks for your support in helping me get a backbone in this.....
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Strugglinson, I am so happy that you have come to see the course of action to help keep your dad's train on the tracks. Studio or 1 bedroom in managed care, those are your tracks dad! Yahoo!!

Prayers that he settles in to his new home and finds a way to some happy moments for himself and to be easy on you and your sibs.
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SS: I echo Isthisrealyreal's words. Happy to hear you've realized dad is incapable of calling the shots now and belongs in AL with an eye toward Memory Care AL when necessary. A BIMS score of 8 is only 1 point away from severe dementia, so dad's worse off than you realized. It's tough to acknowledge such a thing in a loved one, especially a father we felt was invincible our whole lives. The decline is heartbreaking. I wish you good luck and Godspeed dealing with this situation moving forward. Stay connected to the forum, it's helped me get thru moms dementia and death and dad's brain tumor and death.
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strugglinson Dec 22, 2023
THanks. This forum is helping me more than anything.
That BIMS score of 8 was 3 months ago, and I think it may have gone lower now, although he has periods of more lucidity and other periods of worsening. He has a geriatrician PCP who is glad to re-evaluate him, but its tough getting him into the car and there and back. One of the many battles.
Its still not easy but I'm getting better and better day by day at saying "no" to illogical requests. I'm now going to start thinking/ looking towards a future possible memory care level of care for him.
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These situations throw all of us for a loop!

Everyone is different and will react differently to different types of dementia.

So sorry that you are dealing with all of this.
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Never say never to Longterm care. Good that you realize that MC is in Dads future. There may come a time though when MC is not enough. MC is just a step up from an AL. As long as residents are physically healthy and not a problem, they have the ability to care for these residents. But if a person needs alot of care physically, they are not set up for that. They have a Nurse and a Doctor on call but, the aides are not medically trained. If a person becomes aggressive they have to think about their other residents.
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for those following : I got a bit blindsided today

Since my son is back in town for the holidays I had a few family members over for lunch, and had my dad come to our house for lunch.

He ended up getting into a discussion with my son about "how horrible it is to live in my one room in an assisted living". He went on to tell my son " maybe you can help me in my cause, and help convince your dad (me) : the reason your dad (me) and his brother have put me in assisted living is because of cost, because they want inheritance money left over when I die. They dont want me to spend my money even though its my money". My son was shocked and tried to say "Im sure my dad and uncle would NOT do that to you and that is not the reason".

Now, the reason I tried to give my dad for not returning home is that its infeasible, unsafe, and even if we get 24/7 caretakers at home, there are lots of logistical issues and problems, including that I don't have time to manage a house 1 hour away, caretakers and all, especially with his pickiness. However, not sure if he heard what I said, but he has decided to take the angle of "you and your brother are forcing me into assisted living because you don't want me to spend my money". It led to a bit of an argument, and I huffed "fine, take me out of the will completely, that will prove that its not all about your money, I dont care about it".

Anyway, nothing sank in. Do I try to fix the situation ? or let it be, let him think that me and my brother are "forcing him to assisted living due to cost"? I'm fine with that - I had already explained to key family members that for his care, he really needs AL. Yes cost is a factor, but not the only reason by any means. We could bear the cost of at home care, at risk he may well run out of money soon, but it could be done, but would be a LOT of work and stress on me. So cost is not the full reason by any means...
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sp196902 Dec 30, 2023
In the infamous words of that awesome Beetles song: Let it be. Let it be. Let it be. Let it be. Speaking words of wisdom let it be.
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strugglinson,

Don’t bring it up to try to “ fix “ it .
Your father will come up with all kinds of manipulative lies and plans , and false beliefs in his head while he is fixated on trying to leave all on his own . My mother told everyone in the family that I stole her house and her money . ( The house was sold to pay for her AL) . When that didht work she called 911 to say I was abusing her .

First of all dumb it down . You are right , your father did not get all those details to sink in his broken brain .

About going back home ….. you say .
“ It’s not possible “.
“ It’s too expensive”.
Then change the subject . If that doesn’t work ,, say “ I’m sorry you feel that way , but I have to go now , I have an appt .” Leave or hang up the phone.
This will likely go on for months . The more you try to talk to him about it . The more he will come up with cr4p .
Look up “ Gray Rock “. Basically you don’t react to his cr4p.
It took my mother 6 months to stop her fixation to go home .

When my mother called 911, I didn’t go see her or call her for 6 weeks ! She had to know I wasn’t putting up with lies that I was abusing her .

Now that the holiday is over , I suggest not taking him out for at least 2-3 weeks . Let him get used to the idea , that this is where he lives. And don’t take him out to shop ( ie , Macy’s to buy a belt ). A lot of his shopping can be done online and delivered.

He will ask you to jump as often as he can . Don’t do it . You don’t have to waste time shopping if it can be delivered from online . Dad can pick it out online when you visit . If he says he wants to go out . “ Sorry , not this time , I have to work overtime this week , we will get it delivered”.

You have to come up with “ therapeutic “ lies . To keep him calm and maintain your boundaries .

BTW, good for your son, he’s a smart cookie !
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strugglinson Dec 31, 2023
Thanks. The good thing is, a few weeks ago I had talks with each of my Dad's remaining living siblings. Those aunts and uncles all pretty much agreed with me and said 1) "yes, I agree, at this point he just has to be in assisted living. Stick to your guns and tell him nicely that this is how it has to be, and then find the nicest AL place that you can". and 2) "Your dad has always been a very difficult man...." So I feel pretty solid in my stance and even if he tries to tell stories to the family, it wont get him anywhere.
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So if he dies this…

MAKE FREAKING SURE HE HAD THE Freaking INSURANCE TO COVER SLL CATETAKERS COMING IN N OUT OF CARING FOR HIM ASIDE FROM The Agency’s Insurance.

It Only Takes ONE JERK to CLAIM DAMAGING HEALTH INJURIES. To SUE.

I found my LO AL home from the woman in daycare. She lost her whole life savings due to an “injured” worker..

what a wonderful woman she was… AND SHE DID NOT DESERVE THIS.
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