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No answer re rats but that doctor run-around? Exactly what we went through with my mom. Tests they insisted on at ER (it's a new thing here) found "nothing wrong." Fortunately, she was able to die at home less than a week later after just 2 days on hospice.
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There are some borderline nasty comments here . Mother is not being asinine, she is sick and has a broken brain. Son is in denial. DIL is caught between a rock and a hard place. None of us have any personal knowledge of the family dynamic of these people. Standing on the out side , looking in , makes it look easy . Like so many things in life , the solution is easier talked about than actually doing . There is anguish, fear and guilt involved. I pray MaryJann and her husband follow thru and do what they need to do, sooner rather than later . You are not alone .
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Many experienced caregivers have addressed the bigger issue of MIL’s health and welfare in this living situation. However, if mom is going to stay in her home, it’s unlikely the rat problem will go away without costly home repairs or a renovation. That begs the question of, have you thought about getting her a cat? They are the best natural exterminator and act as a deterrent. We used to live in an old farmhouse and our cats took care of the rodents, inside and out, eventually eliminating the problem. I’ve found half-a-dozen dead mice and voles lined up on the porch, like an angler displaying a catch of fish. One even caught a bat midair that had come in through the chimney. My 82 yo mother lived in an attached apartment, and even with her letting the dog in/out and leaving the door open constantly, we didn’t have an issue with rodents thanks to our cat patrol.
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Luta65 Nov 2022
Dnawill,

A good mouser is great in an older home because mice happen. But, we had a cat that was a good mouser, caught a couple that had found egress in the fall - and then she got bit on the nose and never so much as reacted to any scratching in the outside walls.

Rats are too big for cats. A Rat Terrier might help, but that's one more dog being neglected and nobody wants that. And the terrier might dig into the walls to get to the rats and cause even more damage.

The sole option here is to have the dog rehomed, the MIL placed in a facility, and the home repaired and cleaned.
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You need to take control and do what is necessary. Whoever is the POA can and needs to make these decisions.

Call ASAP: pet control or the agency that deals with pet neglect. This woman CANNOT have a dog. Period. You must call authorities. This is animal abuse.

The rats ... Do you want this woman bitten by a rat?
Do you know what happens to a person bitten by a rat?
Do you want this woman living in these conditions?
No No and No.

Read this . . .

Some mice and rats can carry harmful diseases, such as HPS, Leptospirosis, lymphocytic choriomeningitis, plague, and typhus. The best way to protect you and your family from these diseases is to keep mice and rats out of your home.
and ...
Early symptoms include fatigue, fever and muscle aches, especially in the large muscle groups—thighs, hips, back, and sometimes shoulders. These symptoms are universal. There may also be headaches, dizziness, chills, and abdominal problems, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain.
Now, the last question, can I visit you in Olympia? It is such a beautiful area (although I haven't been there).

PLEASE. TAKE CONTROL OF THIS SITUATION.
Call the police dept if necessary. This woman should not be allowed to live under these conditions - no one should. Gena / touch matters
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Maryjann Nov 2022
When I get off work today, I will call APS in San Diego and find out what the parameters are for reporting in that area and have it lined up. I can call the police too. I never thought of them before someone here suggested it. All i thought of were APS.
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Yeah, you are missing something…call a handyman and have the doggy door flap replaced ASAP. Then call exterminator back. Get rid of the rats ASAP - it’s a dangerous, serious health issue.

Or, better yet, get APS out there (call them yourself) and have MIL moved to assisted living or memory care ASAP. Caregiver can and should report the sitch to APS, however you can call them yourself, because as you said, it could be the best thing to happen.

MIL isn’t thinking right anymore. That should be clear to you. Did you explain her living sitch to the Dr? Either make clear to the Dr she cannot live as she’s doing now, and needs diagnosis to move her to assisted living. Ask him for diagnosis. I know he said she doesn’t need meds, but clearly he should have a diagnosis in her chart. Explain you need diagnosis to move her someplace safe.
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Maryjann Nov 2022
We are giving her one last chance, mainly because she has no dementia diagnosis. We have called out the Bioclean for Friday, as I said. My husband mentioned yesterday that she could possibly just refuse to let them in. Not only will that cost us for their time for the day (hundreds of dollars) but it will result in our reporting her to APS. I suppose we need to tell her that straight out.

We told the dr that there are rats running all over the house. He said, "Well, that's not good." But he still has us waiting for her MRI, which has to come after it's approved by her insurance, which has to come after his assistant returns, who was out last week. It's so frustrating. I guess if we were to tell him APS came in, that might do something.

Thinking back on what you've all said, I can definitely see we are enabling her and living in fear of her. My husband is sort of giving her enough rope to hang herself, which is super annoying to me, but he's told me more than once I'm a control freak. So I back down. Families develop these really unhealthy patterns, don't they. So she and the dog are left to suffer even though it's her choice.
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Rats love dog poop 💩 Can anyone reason with her like a social worker or a VNA nurse ? You can have the primary care doctor order a VNA nurse or social worker for you that could come to her house and help . The Nuerologists don’t do much unless there is a stroke and it’s the neuropsychologist who administers the cognitive test . Try to get elder services involved or a home healthcare agency that can offer a CNA to help with hygiene and bathing . Rats will bite you . The door needs to be shut no one wants to work in that environment. Also hire a dog walker a couple times a day .
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The house is getting clean but what about the dog?
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Maryjann Nov 2022
The dog . . . nothing yet. She is still "in charge" because of no dementia diagnosis. I spoke to one of her friends this morning about something else, and the friend says that she heard that if the person can "write checks" according to the court they are deemed competent. But MIL writes checks on closed accounts. We've tried to corral the bad checks, but she somehow keeps finding more.
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I vote for option 2 (Do something)
Take pictures and call 911 to request a welfare check and to appraise of
need of placement (the hospital's social worker should start the ball rolling).
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Luta65 Nov 2022
Maryjann,

I can't imagine who told you that the ability to write checks equals cognitive competency, it is simply false.

I had a Homecare client whose niece had to go for a guardianship when I, as the RN case mgr had to inform her that aunt was no longer safe at home. She told me that the week before, a guy selling frozen meats had sold her some $400.00 in frozen meats and the check was on a closed acct. Served that guy right to take such advantage, but it was one among several messes that required cleaning up. I testified in the court hearing on behalf of the niece so that the dear client could be placed in care and we stuck around with continued full services until she was moved.

Just the fact that she's living with rats is enough to have her deemed impaired and is a basis for further cognitive evaluation.

I don't envy all that you have on your hands with your MIL, but I have wondered if maybe what you had to tolerate in your own early years has contributed to delays in acting on this untenable situation.

I wish you the very best in resolving this and finally having your MIL placed in a safe and clean facility.
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The (undiagnosed) dementia has damaged MIL's judgment or she would realize that she needs help. Typical. My mother thinks she's more than capable of going to work, driving, etc. (She's 95 with dementia.)

I'm surprised that the caregiver is willing to be in a house with rats running around.

Anyway, your husband needs to do something immediately. Rehome the dog. Having the dog there under the current conditions is causing the rat problem. Seal up the doggie door. Get rid of the rats immediately.

Those three things will at least make your MIL and the caregiver safe from rat bites and rat droppings which are also very toxic and disease ridden.

All of that may buy you some time before you have to move her, but at 88 years old, it's getting close to time.
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Dear MaryJann: I'm sorry you are faced with such a terrible situation here with your MIL and her dog & this rat infestation. And I empathize with you feeling like your hands are tied b/c she has no 'formal' diagnosis of dementia. That said, however, I'm questioning your husband's mental state that he's not rushing in to fix this horrible situation going on with his mother. Denial aside, this is worrisome that he's not seeing a VERY bad scenario here; that rats can kill his mother and her dog, or make her seriously sick, etc. That reeks of cognitive impairment to me, more so than 'denial', the more I read. So there's that to consider. And you feeling like you don't have the right to step in and do anything here, I think is wrong too. MIL obviously is not firing on all cylinders b/c she's willing to live in THESE dire conditions. You don't need APS to step in to insist she get help. Put her in the car along with the dog, take them OUT of that rat infested dangerous home, and then get people in there to fix it up; to remove all the food, the rats, to button up all their entry points, etc, as Isthisrealyreal explained. Don't wait for permission to do this o/w your MIL and her dog may suffer very real and horrible health consequences as a result. Put them up in a hotel that takes dogs if need be, while this clean-up operation goes on. Tell her that the Dept of Health condemned her house and that she MUST move out until it's cleaned up. Period; no room for discussion on the subject. Lie to her. Whatever it takes. Just remove the two of them from that home and get it cleaned up; if DH has access to mom's funds, he can use them to pay for this job. If not, he can pay for it and hopefully get reimbursed later on. This is an emergency and it cannot wait for 'formal diagnoses' to come down the pike, or for APS to step in, or for her doctor to say something besides "Well that's not good."

There are no 'last chances' for your MIL. Pick her up bodily and put her in the car after you tell her the Board of Health condemned her house. That's what I would do if it were MY mother, even if she was as mad as a wet hen, who cares? Deal with that anger later, after the house has been made safe. Neither she nor her dog can or should be living in such a dangerous environment. Ask yourselves how you will feel if she's dead (God forbid) or hospitalized with rat bites or disease b/c nobody had the guts to do the right thing, for fear of angering her?

This advice comes from a place of caring about you and your MIL, her dog and your DH, who should get a full physical from his PCP once this crisis has passed.
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Maryjann, ask Bioclean to inspect the house over two days for hazardous waste as they would for an appraiser. Tell mil after she’s out that they found out they need more time, so you’ve booked a senior hotel just for tonight, and you’ll send the dog to vacation boarding.

My hunch is that you’ll be looking at more than a pantry’s worth of money and
time when you get that estimate. In any case, that’s what you tell Jeanne (as it is inevitable anyway).
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Please get the doggie door installed, and then get the exterminator in. Might be a good idea to hire a dog walker to care for the dog too.
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The BioHazard cleaners--if they are any good--will definitely show up in full Hazmat gear. Haven't you seen Hoarders? It does seem over the top--but as they come in and start cleaning and evidence of rodent and dog feces all over the house--would YOU want that job w/o adequate protection?

Yes, it will upset MIL. You are waiting on a DX that likely will never show itself. You don't need a DR to tell you that what you are seeing in MIL is wrong on many levels.

Worst case, the house may be condemned and she wouldn't be allowed to move back in.

Normal thinking people have a real aversion to cohabiting with rats. Just saying.

We lived by a field when my kids were growing up. B/C they would leave doors open all the time, we'd get mice now and then. I'd go into full 'Crazy Mom' on those critters. Traps, poison, whatever it took. Mice outdoors are adorable. Once they come in the house, they are the enemy.
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Tell her that the rat issue creates health hazard for her and opens a can of worms where people may come in to see the condition of her house.

As for an AL move, finances will come in to play. If having a few hours of caregiving, with likelihood of increase in services, in the home is going to bring her 'budget' down to a more critical balance, she certainly will not be able to live long in a self pay AL facility. They are quite expensive. So she and the dog would be quite limited on how long they can live at AL.

Assuming dog exits house into a garage and goes to the bathroom in there, get an extermination/rodent company to come in to set traps. If garage attaches to house, the rats are coming in via holes around pipes or other exterior entrance. These can be sealed and traps set to catch what is already inside. If the dog exits house via open dog door, goes into a garage and then exits another open door to get to a yard, any wild animal could enter the house. And a burglar could also enter the house. -- She is either going to have to get up and let the dog out or lock/seal any exits from garage to yard to get rid of the rat problem and keep her home secure. So if dog is confined to garage to go to the bathroom, someone needs to be hired to clean that up, too.

Caregiver needs to keep old food cleared out of the icebox and toss any item found to have been chewed on by a rat. Remove all the food items from pantry that allow easy access for rodents/bugs. Store all those types of foods in the refrig. Only cans in the pantry.

I think I would throw a little more money toward her in home care so she can stay in the home as long as possible with the dog before I would spend a great deal of money per month for AL. A 70 lb dog may live 9-14 years with fairly decent care, food, and vetting when needed. If the dog is up in years, it may not play a role in her placement later on.
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MargaretMcKen Dec 2022
I jumped to read about rats opening a can of worms. Tricky beggars!
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To follow up - We had a BioClean agency come in and take everything out of the pantry and clean/sanitize. They went through the whole house and did not find any additional evidence of nesting other than in the pantry. They DID however find a rat hole behind the dryer that connected with the garage. My husband and I had taken the word of the rat exterminator that they were coming in through the doggie door. I am sure they were, but they made themselves an alternate exit. My husband hired a contractor to come in and close up that hole. MIL was swearing she was putting the doggie door cover back in each night, but we can't know that for sure. Caregiver says the pantry was immaculate after the cleaner left but that she sees new signs that the rats aren't all gone. So we're going down the day after Christmas to see whether they're back in the pantry or whether they're coming in through the dang doggie door. I was ready to report her the first of this week, but my husband requested I give the situation until next week when we will be down there to get her and bring her here for Christmas. We can check it all out and talk to the contractor again.
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