Is it wrong to hope someone dies?

On second reading, I really like this bit: "Why not make it as safe, secure and full of love for her like she did all those years for you."

My mother would have been a very sad bunny indeed if I'd done that.

Well said, m2m. My mother was twice diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and refused any treatment for it. Nothing one did for her was enough or good enough. No heart to heart conversations were possible as she turned them into arguments. She ranted and raved about anything and everything and blamed others. We understood that she was sick, but there was nothing any of us could do to make it better. Professionals have told me that my mother is very lucky to have me caring for her, I have PTSD from childhood. Walk a mile or ten in the shoes that Belle and others walk in before you judge them. My mother is now 104 and I am 79. It has been a very long journey,

Well, I am not the OP but I do feel the need to address parts of your post.

It has not been "all about M2M since the moment she gave birth" It has been all about the sons. The ones who don't come around or call now. I don't know if she saw me as a rival for my Dad (a reverse Electra Complex) or if she always resented my independence and how I didn't need her like the boys did.

But she is more than happy to make it all about her now.

And when the doctor says she should be doing certain things but she refuses to, I think I can hold it against her. When the doctor says she is able to exercise and needs to do it but she refuses to, I can't help but resent her for becoming too weak to do anything.

I have made every effort to improve her quality of life. She wants for nothing. I try to take her out to do things but she doesn't want to. I buy her a van with a lift seat but it only goes out to doctor's appointments now. Sadly, everything I do to make life easier for her makes her even less likely to try to do anything for herself.

I am happy for you that you had a good relationship with your mother but please understand that there are those of us who are making great sacrifices for someone who was not quite as amazing as your mother. And we are looking for a light at the end of the tunnel.

Annie - Belle started this thread 5 years ago. I doubt she will get your message,

Ok. I'm going to be the "odd one out" it seems, because I'm not handing out sympathy to any daughter whose mother is not here to defend herself and I only get one side of the story. As is the case with most of the responses on this thread. I can already see the feathers ruffling. Take it easy. Read outside the box.

The problem I have with your post is it's all about 'Belle', which I'm going to guess has been the case since your dear mother gave birth to you.

Now that I have your attention. I want you to ask yourself. WHY did she "smoke herself to death"? Have you ever sit down and had a heart-to-heart with 'mom' and asked her why she smoked so much? I'm doubting, from your attitude, that she would share with you any heartfelt emotions, let alone the truth. If I were her, I certainly would not. Consider though that YOU may have been part of the reason she did.

Next., do you realize that CHF is a 'normal' side effect of COPD? How much research have you done on her illnesses. Have you bothered to read about them, other than on forums where everyone is brown nosing? If you truly care and want to help her, you'll stop bullying her about doing things she cannot do, and learn how to better help her and yourself and research. There are new treatments and medications coming to market on a contant basis. There are trials, organ transplants and lots of options. Research. Read.

I suggest you start with COPD and then advance to CHF and Pulmonary Hypertension, another major side effect of COPD, then you can move on to colostomy, osteoporosis and all the other co-morbidities, many of which are caused by COPD, which is not just ONE but several illnesses. With that said it's clear that your 'mom' has a lot going on medically and physically.

When you have learned how much of her life that these diseases combined have taken from her, perhaps you'll stop asking her to 'get out of bed', and understand the true reason "She says her knees gave out--", and stop a**-uming that it's something that "happens when you lie on your a** in bed all day and refuse to exercise." Perhaps you'll understand she isn't refusing.

To start you off in your research, I can tell you from personal experience that COPD, CHF and Pulmonary Hypertension all three work very hard to keep one from breathing. It's not just that your mom has one issue that affects her breathing, but she has two and probably three by now! That's a lot of stuff attacking her ability to breathe! No wonder she CAN'T exercise. She CAN'T breathe!

Lesson two- Lack of exercise makes breathing muscles weak.. (COPD, CHF, PH, Weak Muscles) leg muscles turn to mush and eventually a fall takes place, unless there is a knowledgeable caretaker with ample foresight to see the problems mounting and can prevent it from happening. 'Mom' could have had a walker, a wheelchair or any number of assistance items to help her walk so that a fall could have been avoided. How well is your home fall proof.

Lesson three- Exercising only adds to the COPD, CHF and PH that aggravates her inability to breathe normally. There comes a point in time that one is unable to move farther than a few steps and then they become bed-bound, not because they refuse to exercise, but because their disease will not let them breathe well enough to exercise. Catch 22.

Caretakers that try to bully and make these patients do more than they can, contribute to their heavy load of guilt and feelings of inadequacy. It sometimes borders on mental abuse. 'Mom', and patients like her, carry tremendous feelings of sadness and they mourn daily for the life they once had. They fear becoming a burden on their loved ones and many have daily thoughts of suicide.

Why not, sit down and talk with her, really talk with her. Get to know how she feels, what she wants out of life, what you can do to make her quality of life better. Work as a team. As mom and daughter. Stop 'blaming', and for heaven's sake stop assuming. Do the research. Learn all you can about her medical problems, it will make you a better caregiver.

Last but not least, show your mom some love. She never gave up on you from the time she laid eyes on you. She REALLY IS helpless, not because she wants to be, but because her multiple co-morbidities make her that way.

Here is a song I want you to listen to ... when you have some time alone. You may not like the artist or the genre, but I think you need to hear the words. It's called "Life Turned Her That Way" by Ricky Van Shelton.

I'll leave you with this thought..It was about Belle from the time she laid eyes on you, it's about 'mom' now. Why not make it as safe, secure and full of love for her like she did all those years for you. It's a choice you know. You are more able than she.. and she wants to love you more than you know. Don't let her illness come between you. Do it all with love. You will not regret it.



Let her leave this world loving you.

I don't think Dad is eligible for hospice yet, but I can ask.

There doesn't seem to be any fluid on his lungs, but I'm facing trouble at work if I take off any more time to take Dad to another "He's fine" appointment.

I contacted Dad's psychiatrist at the VA (which I hate), and she just upped his Seroquel again. All that seems to do is knock him out, then he gets anxious about sleeping too much.

We can't afford other care at this point, and I get the feeling that psych thinks I'm exaggerating about Dad's condition. My next step is to record his panic attacks. Maybe she'll believe me when she sees him hunched over gasping for air and pacing in circles.

...If it wouldn't hurt Dad to lose another child...I'm just tired.

Is your Dad able to participate in hospice. We did that for my Dad in his home. My sister and I mostly by ourselves. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done but at the same time I am so proud of us for pulling together with him and easing him into death in a calm and loving atmosphere.

Tiny, is your dad on Oxygen? Does it help?

Does he have fluid in his lungs that can be drawn off?

Is it time for hospice? Or if not hospice, then a higher level of pain or anxiety meds?

I re-read my post and could see how it appears that I support human euthanazia. I wouldn't go that far, but I do know the pain of witnessing someone else suffer -- what I feel is needlessly, and I have myself just asked God to just mercifully allow Dad to sleep to peace.

Our relationship wasn't the best, but I would never wish any ill will on him. The days when I hear him say how "tired" he is or how he feels "worthless" because he can't remember how to use a doorknob (true story). It's heartbreaking.

Watching him gasp for air and become anxious to the point of tears just completely wears me out. He hardly eats and has trouble sleeping... I dunno. I find myself wondering how much more either of us can take.

I think I was more upset about the suggestion that we can just walk away. It felt like a "get over it..." suggestion.

I'm a complete wreck this week, so sorry if my post seemed just as harsh.

We do have the power to end a pet's suffering and I have had to make that decision many times.
Some people feel that euthanazia is something that should be allowed. I have very mixed feelings about that because of the danger of abuse.
Wishing someone would die is a totally different subject.
A lot depends on the reason that this wish is present. Does one wish that they could have an end to their suffering? Can they just get on with it so the family can enjoy their inheritance? Is the "loved" one a miserable old cuss who is burning out their caregiver and making them ill?
Whether any of these apply depends on ones moral conscience.
Personally my hubby and I hope we are able to ease our passing when life becomes unbearable. Will it happen who knows.

Tiny, I don't altogether accept the beloved pet/parent parallel, and I don't think its being against the law is the "only" thing, or even the main thing; but all the same I completely applaud the spirit of your post. Power hugs to you!

I don't think it's wrong at all to wonder when it's all going to end... for everyone.

It's not easy to see someone suffer unnecessarily whether they are joyful, loving human beings or miserable grumps that feed on negativity. It's truly awful to watch someone's body be kept alive well past it's prime.

@ Dontask4handout, this thread isn't in the spirit of "My elderly loved one is old and a lot of trouble, let's get rid of him/her"... It's coming from a place of compassion.

"Just leaving the situation..." isn't care giving at all. A truly ill person (especially with cognition decline) CAN'T figure out how to be cared for which is why they need CARE GIVERS -- most likely they are in danger if left on their own.

Since, it's so wrong...

Picture this: A person brings a 11-year-old dog to a veterinary clinic that can't see or hear well (and is extremely anxious as a result). The dog is starting to have accidents in the house because of it's advanced age and has been constantly whining in pain. After an examination, the vet discovers that the dog has a condition that MAY be partially cured with an expensive surgery, but the animal would have to be on medication for the rest of its life.

You LOVE this animal. You've been with it all of it's life, but the surgery would be a financial burden. You really don't have the resources to care for it if you opt for the surgery. You need to work (probably extra to pay for the surgery), and how will you make sure the dog is properly cared for -- medications, companionship, etc.? So, after careful and painful consideration, you decide that the most HUMANE thing to do at this point would be to put the dog down. You take your time to say goodbye and are at the dog's bedside as it peacefully takes its last breath...

Now, take out the dog and replace with a parent, or a spouse, or a relative, or a friend. WELCOME TO THE PLIGHT OF A CARE GIVER!!! The only thing is, it's against the law to "put down" a human, so we caregivers are left to bear the emotional, physical, and financial turmoil until the end!!

IT'S NOT WRONG, and it gets me riled up when folks who DON'T UNDERSTAND the magnitude of a care giver's sacrifice to judge a completely human emotion and contemplation.

HUGS TO ALL CARE GIVERS!!!!

Yes it's wrong. The best thing to do if it's draining you is to leave the situation. Let them figure out how they're going to be cared for when you're gone

AmyGrace know what you mean. Been thinking about you and sorry have not been in touch but it seems like one thing after another. My Mom is 92 and is also miserable. (Still)(and mean).But I'm not sure.....I think she feeds on being miserable. If she wasn't miserable she would miss it. The more miserable she makes other people the happier she is. I kid you not.

This thread has been going for 5 years but it is so appropriate for caregivers as so many of us ask ourselves this. Its very hard to follow now that the font size is so HUGE and one has to go back little by little, page by page. I don't remember if I made a recent comment. I weighed in a year ago, talking about my 101 year old mother who was unhappy and complained for 25 years. She passed a few weeks later and it was a blessing. It broke our hearts over the years to watch Mom so unhappy yet so physically healthy up until she was almost 100.
As awful as it sounds, we, the family all agreed it would be kindest to her emotionally if she passed in her sleep, instead of suffering through a slow age and health decline. It didn't happen, unfortunately, and she faded away drugged with morphine in a nursing home after falling and breaking bones.  Some people who suffer want to pass, but she fought it every step of the way.  We prayed that  because of the medication, at the end, she was at peace and did not realize what was happening.    Its been a year now, we miss her, but we know she is in a better place.

I am reading the above comments and realize that the body is outlives the mind. Happens in dementia cases. Very sad. See it with my 92 year old Mother.

No, it is not wrong to wish this. For example, if the patient is very old, feeble, helpless, ill, in pain and mentally and physically gone, it would be a blessing. Another reason would be if the patient was very nasty, selfish, abusive and extremely demanding and difficult to care for and doing so was impacting the life of the caregiver and their family. This is just a natural thing to wish and I see nothing wrong with it under these circumstances.

I'm so sorry to hear about all the pain and sorrow everyone is going through. And all the difficult day to day responsibilities. Plus the grief from siblings and family about what is being done and not done and they are not even the ones doing all the work.

Even though my dad was grumpy. And everything fell on me for the most part. I still did not want my dad to die. It was getting tough. And I was burned out. But I still didn't want my dad to die. The reality of his passing is still very hard for me to process. I still wished I could have taken a step back and realized he was dying. He spent a better part of year dying and I was only getting more frustrated. I wished I had done it differently.

I watched my Aunt go through this with my great grandma--the stress and toll it took on her. She suffered from dementia but was otherwise healthy until she died from a heart attack at 94. You have to take care of yourself. Even with someone that you have previously had a good relationship with can take everything out of you. Now we are starting to enter this with my mom and grandma and I really worry about the toll it will take on my family.

No!! Not when they are 84 yrs old have 10 different health issues and getting harassed by siblings because I am taking caregiver money, and came up from a dysfunctional family to start with, where I am their punching bag and stuck because I live closer by and taking care of a bully mother and ready to put myself in a hospital!!! When I feel guilty I just remind myself how hard this is and how mean and critical my family has been towards me who don't help out!!!!!!!!! I can't wait till it's all over!!!

No, it is not wrong - depends on the circumstances. If someone was and is nasty, abusive, demanding, etc. that sure adds to that wish. And if the person is so far removed from what they once were or are suffering in pain and other anguish, no, it is not wrong - it is the decent and humane wish to ease someone's suffering and allow life to unfold for those who remain.

No, it is not wrong. My sisters and I took care of our mother for 8 years with a part time caregiver. She was bedridden for about a year at the end. We prayed for her to die. We were spending the best years of our retirement doing this. She did not care about anything. It sounds selfish, but she had no life. Now I am in the same situation with my mother in law, but she is in a nursing home. I cannot take care of her at home. I have RA and my husband, her son had surgery for an aortic aneurysm and is not supposed to lift more than 50 pounds. She can't walk because she broke her hip 6 months ago. She has been wanting to die ever since her husband died 6 years ago so she did not put out much effort at rehab. She is 97 years old and has dememtina, also. The bad part is that she does not have anytthing wrong with her. She is unhappy in the nursing home and complains about everything. She thinks we. Should be there all the time. My husband insists on going there every day and it is getting him down. The stress is not good for him, and he is getting depressed and his own health is suffering as a result. I'm trying to support him. We are 71 and 72 and I would like to enjoy what's left of our retirement, but he won't go anywhere or do anything because of her. People just live too long!  She doesn't show any signs of going anywhere soon, but since she says all the time that she wants to die, that is what I pray for for her sake.

There are several states that have the Death With Dignity laws passed in recent years, Washington is one of those states. I currently have a Nephew- in-law, who is dying from Cancer, at home and on Hospice, who is seriously considering the DWD, option, which is such a difficult decision, but one that is very nice to be able to choose, if the circumstances are just right, and in his case, they are. He's had Cancer for over 5 years, and has 3 daughter's, 21, 13, and 12.

He is near the end, but feels he can no longer fight, and chooses to go out with dignity. I find his choice to be a God given right, and if that is his choice, then so be it.

The more difficult thing is the well being of his children, but they all have talked about it, and think it's the right thing to do in this case. What courage it takes, to make these decisions, but it's all about Dignity, and that of your family. So No, it's not wrong to wish someone would die. It's life, as dificult as that is.

Nobody enters into these sorts of thoughts without seriously thinking it would be for the best of all who remain. We aren't talking murder or suicide here, it's about the right to die, and to end suffering!

cak2135 ~ see Oregon's Death with Dignity Act, passed in '94 or '97. There is a documentary about how the act is carried out, some of the people who choose this route, called How To Die In Oregon.

Yeah, this country is so twisted, and at times, I wish it would go to H*ll. Our furry friends do not have to suffer when they get real severe health issues but our human friends do. Why can't they be put out of their misery like our furry friends do? In fact, show me a country that does do this or a state that does this and I will make my home over there

I am 24/7 caregiver for my mom. She has Alzheimer's and I have written a couple of comments relating to this issue in terms of being a caregiver. It hurts me to see my mom try to navigate her life in terms of the confusion she feels. She is almost 94 and although she has osteoarthritis, she is in pretty good physical condition. Which means as her mind deteriorates, her body may remain strong enough to go on for many years. That breaks my heart but there's nothing I can do about it. My prayers for my mom are for peace--I don't need to visualize how that might look like. That might means she dies or that might mean that she goes into a place where she removes herself from life as we know it. If you're there with your parent and giving all you got, there are going to be times where you look at what life might be like if they moved on. Don't beat yourself up for having these thoughts.
We don't aways consider that they might not want to be in the position they find themselves at this point. Think about what you would want your end to look like. My mom's gift to me with being her caregiver is that I can really define to my son what I want for the end of my life. Because I don't want him to feel guilty, I won't accept guilt for myself. If you've stepped up (to take care of your family member), you've done good. Love yourself for your effort. It is hard to take on the care of another person in any circumstance. Be kind to yourself. You've probably done what no one else in your family could do. I know that's how it was with me.

I have lived a hard, tough life and yes, it is human to wish someone to die. Why? The other person may have been very selfish, mean, abusive, whatever. Perhaps love was never shown to you and this person never cared about you. Or perhaps their mind is now gone and if they were loving and kind and good, they are not what they once were. Or they may have serious medical problems. You did not cause the problems - sometimes in some cases, they brought it on themselves. Other times it is just the aging process. I firmly believe that when the mind and body are gone and the person is causing havoc, it is only pure and human decency to wish they would pass on It would be a kindness that our society doesn't want to accept. If they are no longer what they once were, it would be a blessing and I wish the day would come where society would allow something to be done just as it does for our beloved pets. I believe in God and I truly believe that given the correct circumstances, this is NOT a sin - it will bring us closer to God faster. Were it me, and I acted like some of these people, I would pray that someone would do away with me - it would be an act of mercy and pure kindness. But for now, I know no one will do that - and knowing this, it is a horrifying thought - that I could go on for a long time being like these people. Be strong - you are doing nothing wrong.

"Is it wrong to hope someone dies?"

You're not just hoping out of nowhere and nothing that they will die, you're hoping for relief from the current overwhelming, painful problems, you're hoping to live a peaceful life, you're hoping to see an end to their pain and undignified end-of-life process -- and you think the only way that can happen is if someone dies.

It's a big difference to me. I've felt that feeling - wanting my father to pass, even while I did everything I could to keep him alive and well. I realize now I didn't wish so much that he would die, just that he wasn't a source of so much stress and hurt in my own life.

My husband and I have been caring for my dementia patient Mother for over 3 years now and she does nothing for herself except swallow the food we feed her, walk with assistance as far as from the bed to the free standing toilet and she sings music, still loves for me to play music and she'll remember most of the words.

She can be cruel to us, is in a bad mood if we interfere with her own personal shangri-la in her head...meaning...she's fine with music, us being her personal handmaid and butler but if we need to even so much as move her and pull blankets back we get a meanie.

I wish, always for the Lord to just take Mom home. She does not know me or anyone else and she only asks for the people who are all gone to be with the Lord. Shes 86 and I honestly think there is a huge part of her that is afraid to die. She has always been afraid of her shadow and has been the damsel in distress and helpless person always. Very narcissistic and attached to my life as one for her to plan and dictate. I guess she has succeeded in a sense, but I also disengage and don't let her use her guilt tricks on me. I am ok with doing a great job some days a good job others. We deserve our lives as well.

My mom has dementia and just had surgery for a blood clot - I am not quite sure what is going to happen at this point. All I know is that despite her devastating condition - she has trouble speaking (but she recognizes us), she is confused, and she is in pain - she desperately wants to live. It does not matter what we wish or don't wish for. There is always a reason for the way we think or feel.