Grossed out and need to vent—I just caught Mom using my toothbrush to comb her hair!

I think, perhaps, that Cat was trying to keep the focus on Jen and maybe felt under attack in Book's previous comment with the capital letters.

And Cat you stepped on toes here.... I find what you are saying very insensitive,and Book or anyone else on this sight can say anything they choose, you certainly do!!!!!

I'm truly sorry Jen and all for thinking that Jen's situation is only about me. I apologize for getting so emotional. Jen, I'm so sorry. You all take care, okay? Good bye.

Book, Maybe you need to quit talking. Like shut your mouth for a while. It isn't all about you. You aren't helping anyone.

And Cat, I don't give a damn that Jen's brother is trying to undo what he did or is sorry or whatever. If he was seriously repentant for what he did, he would NOT have confronted Jen in front of everyone! That is very hurtful. He raped her and now he did it again - this time in front of others. He is a jerk!! And I hope Jen does NOT help him in his quest to QUENCH or ERASE his SINS. I don't give a damn that he was abused! I was abused. Did I go and abuse another person? There are millions of people out there who have been abused. They do not go out there and kill people and then say, "Oh,I had a very bad childhood. My parents did such awful things to me. And that is why I raped and killed so many women." No, Cat, it does NOT WORK THAT WAY!! Her brother can go rot in hell. He has just repeated his sin of raping her again - but this time in front of Their Mother and Grandfather?! He's damn grandstanding! And that is all I'm going to say on this subject.

Jen, I apologize for doing this statement for all to see. But, I need to defend you and me - and our stand on why we are where we are in life. HUGS to you, Jen!!! book

Book: Jen does not have a problem remembering what happened to her. That's the difference between Jen and you. Jen remembers everything. I appreciate your comments about little steps, but Jen's Thanksgiving was not a little step. It was a brother telling her about abuse and asking her to tell him everything he did to her. It's a bit different from your experience although I appreciate your empathy to what Jen has been through.

Jen: I have waited to respond to your situation and your gut retching post. When I read it , the night you posted, I just turned off my computer and went to bed. I prayed for you and I prayed that I would have some capacity to respond to your post in a way that would not offend you or feel I was judging what you may or may not do to make progress in your life.

When I read your post, I was so angry. You explained more than I had realized and I was just overwhelmed I didn't want my anger at those who have hurt you to dominate my response to you, so I just had to stop.

I'm going to do the best I can to say what I feel about your situation. It may leave something to be desired, but it's a start. Please bear with me and I hope you will listen in a way that reaches you.

First of all, you can't expect your brother or anyone in your household to respond to you in a way that makes total sense to you or takes into account your feeling as a victim. They are all so very damaged and lacking in their ability to reach you.

I think your brother is a victim too, your mother is a victim too,(and an enabler). I can't imagine what fart pants is, other than an abuser, and God only knows what your dad was. An abuser for sure.

So how can you look at your mom or brother and expect them to come to you and discuss the issues that have taken up your and there lives and expect it to make complete sense or to be delivered in a way that appeals to you. They are so damaged and trying to make their way. They are not capable of doing more than grab at some sanity and trying to fumble at making amends.

I want to correct one thing, I don't put your mom in the category of trying to make amends. I will leave your brother there, but not her.

Jen, if your mom married such an abusive man who tormented his children, don't you think that she was also tormented? Don't you think FP sexually abused your mom. That seems like a no brainier to me. Your mom relates more to the abusers than she does to the victims. You are a victim. Are you hearing what I am saying. Your mom caters to those who abuse. It's more important to her to get their approval than it is to protect other victims. She wants you to follow her lead, just keep catering to the abusers.

So far, the one person in your family who has taken steps to keep from going over the edge and tries to make amends is your brother. I realize he does not do it correctly to give you peace, but at least he is trying to say I did wrong and I was abused too. He has told his wife about all of this. That's a huge confession and may wives would walk away from such a twisted tail. Would they want their child to be in a household with a man who had his past. There's a big risk at sharing all he has shared.

Jen, you have to make some decisions. You can spend the rest of your life, living with your fucking grandfather and listing to your mom and trying to decide if you are a burden to her or not. That makes me sick, because she is a burden to you and not the other way around.

How can you get better when you live among those who abused you and those (your mom) who let it happen and don't want to acknowledge their role in the life you have endured.

There have to be places you can go. I'm not going to go into the possibilities, because you will probably say, "No, can't do that." So I will just say, if you want to make a meaningful change, let us know and we will find a way.

The choice is yours. I truly hope you will say yes to a better future, rather than, NO, I'll just continue to live this way. Ultimately, the choice is yours.

Sending you love and white light. I'm hoping you are ready to do something different. What have you got to lose????

Cat

Beh mom stomping around pissed, God i ate the damn leftovers. OK. Go back and read some more before she gets MORE pissed. yes all back to "normal" here. I have copied off everyone's responses to put in my journal.

Thank you Diane Cricket and Bookworm, trifecta eh and all dealing with it differently.
I have no doubt I am living Dante middle ring of hell. Betrayal. I don't know, I may very well NOT be strong enough to be here, but i am a coward to be anywhere else.
Leftovers tonight first night I have been AT the table. fart Pants just moans and shovels food in till he coughs. yes go ahead choke to death it might be the best way.
Someone on TV playing Andy Williams It's The Most Wonderful time of The Year. I still like Christmas and will not let anyone ruin that for me. Be waiting to put up the decorations for two weeks. I even sent my Christmas cards out. The day after is OK right...
I am sorry to hear about everyone else very rotten childhood issues as well. Seems statistics bare us out, as women. one in three and varying degrees...
Been healing a while now, but this is a new chunk and it is gonna take a while to absorb. O n top of everything else. Why imagine my life "should" have been something else. It wasn't clearly. It can only be what I make it. well mostly.

I hope everyone else had Ok hols, or not insane anyway....Jen

Hi Ladies,

I'm sure many of us here have experienced some kind of sexual abuse trauma. We all protect ourselves the best we know how to do and it is good to learn from our experiences and move through them. I know from my own experience of blocking it out for 30 yrs. it eventually left me so sick emotionally and physically that I was sleeping 20+ hours a day. Our minds and bodies will seek to find a release no matter how hard we try to avoid it. I went to counseling and it really didn't help, then I went to another counselor and was told I was over it, I wasn't.
Eventually I found a way to let go, forgive (not condone the wrong) and become a whole person again. It can be done but to do it we have to be willing to go within for the answers and face many truths and forgive even ourselves for holding on to the pain, blame and anger within that continuously torments. By doing this we don't undo the trauma because we can't change what happened but we CAN change how we continue to react to it and put all those feelings to rest and grow in embracing our own life anew. Believe me all the work within is so worth it!

Jen, I urge you to copy and paste what you wrote above and send it to your brother and put an end to his contacting you about it until YOU want to talk about it with him, and that might be never. It is your right and only you can make a stand for yourself with him. Set him straight for your own well being. It's a step in the right direction.

If anyone (Jen or others) is interested to know how I moved through the abuse and trauma on my own without a therapist I am always willing to share and help you make the journey for yourself. And no it wasn't religion that helped me although that is what helps many others. To each his or her own.

As always, love and many hugs to you all here.
*´¨)
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Chirp Chirp Cricket ღ

Holy shit, Jenn.... I thought my thanksgiving dinner was a little tense. Your thanksgiving makes ours look like turkey with the Cleavers. You are one hell of a strong woman. I have much respect. You function. You go on. You put one foot in front of the other and you go on. They stole a lot from you, but I still remember the story you told about you sharing the blanket with the woman at the bus stop. They didn't steal everything. You are stronger than you think. You are a good, compassionate person and you deserve better. Sending you a big, warm hug and the warmth of our weird cyber friendship. xx

Diane and I will be leaving for Tahiti and not coming back ever ever ever...

Um my thanksgiving was beyond horrid. I knew ex abusive brother the cop was coming during duty radio on check for calls DV shootings what have you...

It has been 24 hours I have not slept yet, he apparently has been stewing this for some time....We had a Thanksgiving Ambush.

I don't recall what brought it up when how just that all of the sudden it was all on the table, the incest the abuse the bullshit childhood, fart pants sitting there taking it all in probably getting excited. My brother told me and mom that on his death bed, dying of AIDS my father admitted he had molested him (brother) for years. That he brother knows our father literally choreographed the sexual abuse between us, that bits and pieces he was not aware of now fit into place, that stuff i wondered about but no never asked why would I came out. mom crying him crying me crying holding hands. He was very Pro therapy, very upset, has been talking about this with his wife and shrink after contemplating killing himself by driving in front of a semi...etc. i can understand a lot of my abuse issues now but he was so brutal and forced and kept saying at me over and over OK what else, what else is there just get it out. I want closure I want to have some sort of relationship with you... Like just becasue he has NOW started dealing with his issues, (he has no memories of the sexual assaults just that dad told him when he was 15) But he seemed no matter what he said the same pushy bullying judgmental jerk he always has been, He apologized over and over to me for what he did, said, what happened and Once again insisted I forgive him (he is a Christian) He is now telling ME to go back to therapy, apparently I have not been healing the RIGHT way, He has, once again he is right I am wrong. Everything or most everything is out, I told him about fp porn, but still kept it from my mother. (Next day fp app to dr and he couldn't even look at me, just backed away, Good Move shit pants) Mom as usual just shut down sat there upset but said little or when she did re told things I had heard before, that would lend compassion to my dead father who had none for me. My brother confirmed that dad had been particularly unkind to me, and he didn't know a third of it. I seem to have more memories than he does, he seems to have some information. Sort of a watershed moment. it would have been more healing and cathartic than upsetting and irritating had he not been so God Damn pushy , He was saying I WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS NOW, I NEED TOTAL BRUTAL HONESTY I CAN'T KEEP CARRYING THIS GUILT AND REGRET AROUND WITH ME IT WILL KILL ME !
Literally said this, insisted on my telling him everything, i didn't but he was also defensive and apparently did not realize that when you request others be totally honest with you you very may well hear shit you don't like, does any one ever consider that in there confrontations. I have read the Courage to Heal like a life manual and here I was being LECTURED by one of my abusers about the right way to heal and move on and grieve and feel and deal, and oh he feels guilt and worried that I am indigent mentally ill and when mom dies plan to just kill my self and be done with it. It is not real solid plan. Spite is a good motivated, Mr forgiveness wants it all out and done with and lets pretend were happy family now...We never were....
i reminded him he used to tell me how to kill myself when we were teenagers, (now he is worried i will (God damn hypocrite narcissist). deef I wanted to call you but I just can't make myself reach out, but the thought you are there and care about me helped in ways you can never know.
I feel addled and sick and sleep deprived. I have spent years working on and analyzing this relationship i may love and hate him but I do not want an independent relationship with him, he says he is "not the man or boy he way 5 10 15 20 years ago, but he just doesn't see it. He is still pushy and manipulative and all this confrontation did was throw us for a loop and leave me here in despair while he goes home to his good looking loving wife and perfect golden child and well paying respected job and i stay here washing fart pants feces off the walls and backing out of rooms. He has no fucking clue and is NOT entitled to insist on ANYTHING FROM ME EVER! and he acts like he's entitled to it because he is doing his healing work. You need to do your healing work with someone else, you don't get to use me twice. Oh and the forgiveness thing...at my bedroom door when i was 14 and he'd just fed my up the ass, he knocked and said "I need you to forgive me becasue what we just did was a sin.' Update; he still believes it was a sin...and apparently my first time lie forgiveness wasn't enough. He came home from college and mentioned the abuse just once, he said "I remember what we did, when we were kid,s and I'm not ever gonna tell anybody..." I agreed then..I lied, I told him I told everybody. He said I was passive aggressive, and that isn't the way to deal wit h things...ah yes, right back where we were before only older. And yes you are turning into Dad the master manipulator, who taught you to treat me like shit. And turn it around and make me look like everything is my fault and you are right...Nothing has changed, nothing.
He has gotten the capital F fear of his own mortality and I have to suffer...
Yes Happy Fucking Thanksgiving....
I have a headache now. shocking I know.
Mom is almost being nice to me. I stole two dollars of fp gas money to buy a Power Ball ticket, I would now sell my soul to win, to get out of here forever, but I do not believe, anymore. I think part of me died yesterday. And all I was worried about was food poisoning.

Diane, you sound like you're at the end of your rope. Wish I could help you. You're right, crying every day isn't what life is supposed to be like. What can you do to get some relief? You need it NOW. You've been sick and you're exhausted and your mother isn't who she used to be... Who can you call? I totally understand the holiday depression. They get to me too. I don't feel quite myself from Thanksgiving on, until the new year begins.
I hope you get some help. I wish I could run over in my jammies and hang out and give you a hand. But, I'm here and you're there and all I can do is send you a cyber hand holding and hug. Hang in there.

Now I am pissed off. My mother starts her usual bullshit because I wouldn't let her sit when her butt hadn't even gotten to the toilet. Her body is twisted and she can't comprehend that her bottom does not line up with her shoulders. She tries to sit in chairs or the toilet that isn't under her bottom. She argues over EVERYTHING! If I don't make her move over she will end up falling on the floor. I am so tired of caregiving. At this point she is a mean and angry stranger that I'm stuck with. I feel like I've lost me, my health, my career, my finances, ny insurance, everything to take care of this stranger. All I have to look forward to is being kicked out my home and not having money to take care of myself. I keep feeling I'm going to end up under a bridge. All I do is cry everyday of life. This is not what life is supposed to be.

I think I'm finally starting to feel like I'm kicking this crap I've had so long. I hadn't even tried Books vinegar solution yet. I plan to go to work for a few hours tomorrow. We have atrip leaving for the USC/Clemson game. I can also use the quiet to try catch-up on all I have missed.
Unfortunately the holiday depression is sinking in more and more. I've been trying to keep it away, but the black hole has engulfed me again. I just feel incredibly sad all the time.
I just sat down and mom needs to go to the bathroom now. I will check back in later.

Diane, sorry your family is just a bunch of turkeys. They should be roasted.

We had a fun afternoon. Met out son and his girlfriend, Karen, at the casino for the Thanksgiving Buffet. This was at 2pm and the expected wait was 2 hours. So we all got a drink and headed for the penny slot machines. Warren and I have a favorite one and so we settled in, 4 in a row, and held our own until our names were called.

The food was fine and it was nice to sit down and catch up over a meal that no one had to cook. After dinner, we came back to our house and played a game of tiles. I just love that game.

Nick and Karen have to work tomorrow, so they left around 7pm and I was in my jammies about 10 minutes later. It was a fun, easy time.

Diane: I understand how you feel. Your brother is an ass to exclude you from the family dinner. I'm surprised he could do that and not feel terribly guilty. That's really cruel and I'm sorry it's so hurtful to you. You deserve so much better.

By the way, Diane, I was reading on another thread that melatonin (sp) can be used to help a person sleep. I've heard some bad things about it too, but it's over the counter and possibly you could check with your mom's doc to see if it would be safe to try. Deef might know something about this.

Mame, glad you had a nice day. Meanwhile, I got my walk in this morning. Bobbie, your dinner sounds great. Hope everyone else did ok.

On a lighter note, we have a little water feature in our yard. The water comes out of a rock. We can turn it on from inside the house. Our dog, Mattie, likes to lap up water from the rock when it's on. If it's off, she will go over to the rock and lick it. Most of the time, we see her from the house and then turn it on. Presto, instant water. I'm sure she considers it her magic rock. You just lick it, stare at it for a second, listen for the gurgling sound and drink all you want. Life is good when you're simple.

OK, everyone. One holiday down and one more to go.

Love you all, Cat

Mom has been asking me since 7pm if she could go to bed. I try to keep her up until at least 9pm so hopefully she won't have me up 50 times through the night. (pm arrives and I go to get her up out the recliner to go to bed. She starts hallucinating and insists the kitchen is on fire. No matter what I say I cannot convince her the kitchen is NOT on fire. I let her sit in the recliner for awhile longer while she keeps insisting there is a fire. I tried to give her the bedtime meds and she spits them out at me. I just backed off and let her sit. She finally dozed off and I just got her in bed. She evidently didn't remember the fire episode and she took her meds peacefully. It really makes you wonder how their demented minds work. Well I am heading to bed too. Have a good night!

Despite the setback of my oven dying this afternoon, James and I had a lovely Thanksgiving dinner. We just had enough time to finish eating when my brother brought mom back home. I find myself simmering over the fact that my family got together and celebrated Thanksgiving, excluding James and I. Who the hell do they think they are that they have a right to judge me and dole out "punishment"? They are a bunch of self-righteous assholes. I get so angry at their arrogance. I know I shouldn't let them hurt me, but it gets to me all the time. The other annoyance is that of course mom didn't act like a complete crazy person like she does with me. Why is it she can act normal with the people she sees once a year but a complete helpless dolt when she is with me? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my day with James, but it does hurt to be ostracized by my family.
I hope everyone had a nice day with little or no drama.

FYI, I hope you all enjoy your day. Somebody might as well! Enjoy your family and the good delicious food, etc...

Hi All, enjoy your day!

Just a quick drive-by cuz I have to do the parents and get ready for work. Yesterday, father was in a bad mood - all against me. I should Not elevate mom when feeding her via the feeding tube. I should not use 2 different suction hose for the mouth and throat - one would do. I should feed mom on the Regular time: 8am, 12noon and 5pm - even though her stomach is still full (my sched for mom is 8am, 1pm, and 6pm. He accused me of hiding his herbals because when oldest sis can't find it in the corner of the room, I come home and find it in the same corner. I told him that sis is blind and can't find anything! He says he's a very good detective and he KNOWS that I'm hiding his herbals and giving it away.

So, this 230am, I smelled poop. Opened my eyes and he's enthusiastically digging into his butt. I didn't say anything because he might just scoop the damn stuff and throw it at me. I woke up at 5:50am dreading cleaning the mess. You all know that this is the part I'm having problem with - not the gross trache or bleeding stomach tube hole. It's the poop. Finally got off the sofa bed when I had to sneeze exactly at 6am - the poop smell is very, very strong. My sinus blocks my sense of smell. Ohhhh, I can smell those poop!!!

Gotta go. I hope I don't go over the deep end like the last time. Most likely the waterworks from my eyes will start pouring when I come back after work to update you all that I'm sooo proud that I handled it well (like the last time.) Sigh....

Why Couldn't He Have Done This Yesterday our Thanksgiving Day?!!!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

We were thankful for a nice roast beef and lots of other stuff.

lovbob

Thanks Book for the info on the online shopping.
Diane- I know it will be hard, but i hope you can get some rest today! And thanks for understanding about the caregiving for a child and elder at the same time. It is difficult to say the least.
Lil deb- I also missed you in my list of wishes, but i hope you have a great day too! Love ya'll stormy!!!!

Well the bird is ready to go into the oven! Mom of course is still in bed. She woke me up from about 4:30am and then again every hour after that. She swore she was dying, again! I'm still coughing and blowing, but luckily no one has caught whatever it is that I have. Book, I've got nothing to lose so I will give the vinegar solution a try. I've actually read a tablespoon of cider vinegar daily helps with arthritis pain too.
Stormy, I can't even imagine having to nurture a child while caregiving. You have every right to feel overwhelmed. Yesterday I was watching Dr. Oz and they had a segment on adult adhd and I swear I have it! I am always feeling overwhelmed. I'll talk with my psychiatrist and see what he has to say.
Deef, sorry I missed you earlier in my list of wishes. I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. I wish I lived nearby so I watch mom for you to do the craft show.
I'm in on the group toast. Tell me a time and I'll be online! I deserve a glass of wine after all this crap :). Lildeb I somehow missed you in my Thanksgiving wishes too. I hope you can have a delicious and healthy Thanksgiving. I find this time of year to be really tough to resist all the yummy sweet treats.
Shirley, please post a picture of Omaha on FB. I'd love to see him!
Everyone enjoy your Thanksgiving however you spend it. Again, I am very greatful for your support and friendship.
Love ya,
Diane

Stormy, HLN recommends online shopping. It seems the online prices are better than the Black Friday at the store. They have noted that these stores says it's on sale for $578.00 but just last month that same item was $538.00. This is happening with Home Depot, Kmart, etc.... So HLN is saying that these Black Friday sales were jacked up and then given a "sale price" that is a normal price.

So, they recommend online shopping. Later...time to sleep.

Happy Thanksgiving Ya'll!!!
Jen- Funny about FP!!! Have a good one!
Cat- It sounds like a plan to me, I'm gonna have me a frozen pina coloda. They come in the pouches already made up, just freeze and squeeze and open and drink!!! I am hoping that we will be home by 5:00. Party gets over at 4:00. Have a good one, Cat!!
Book- I guess by now your family has left the house or at least i hope so or you are going to be crazy, I know. I know the feeling ready to see them and ready to see them go....... Gets some rest, girlie.

I was wondering if ya'll knew something about if you can catch the black friday sale by ordering toys online? If anyone knows, let me know. Cause i am going to have connor with me tomorrow and for the next several days and i won't be able to do any shopping plus I have to go to dads tomorrow with my little wild man. I love connor to death, but it stresses me out to no end having to deal with a 6 yr old and a elder at the same time. Cause they both are calling or wanting something from me. Lord help me these next few days. And i am trying to not even think about when he is out for CHRISTMAS!!! He will be out for 2 weeks or longer. I will be ready for the straight jacket and padded room having to drag him over to dads everyday. Can't think about it, i will start stressing. Ya'll understand, right? Well i need to get off of here and start getting ready to go to our uncle's house. That's where we eat at, we have about 40 or 50 people out there- aunts, uncles, cousins, etc......Love and hugs stormy.
Book- I hope the family

Oops...meant Wine Coolers!

Cat, will try, but I don't even like the Ice coolers.
I'm sooo tired. Even though everyone's out on the porch, and I'm in the livingroom, I'd like everyone to just go home now. It's almost 4pm, TG is almost over, work tomorrow, so, why aren't everyone calling an early end? I still need to change the parent's pampers and I'd like to do that without people coming/going thru the livingroom to go to the restroom. Okay...it's my tiredness talking. But, truly, company wears me out - even if it is just sis and the kids. I put away some chicken soup for dinner tonight. And 2 pieces of coconut pie (haven't tried it yet but everyone said it's delicious.) Later!!! company coming in...

I say we all have a good drink after Conner's birthday party. Let's set a time and propose a toast to all of us. Lord knows, we deserve it. Bobbie, you can do water. Book, find something you can drink.

Hugs my warrior sisters. You are all so awesome.

Here's a bitter funny one for me here anyhow....when my niece came yesterday with her fiancee' nice guy. niece said in a funny huff she "Didn't want your money anymore for Christmas!" Meaning the $100 fp "gives" everyone in an envelope. twenty years ago it was grandma gave everyone $50. and that was just kids grand kids and husband so six people, now it is $100 and some 16 people. And Mr. cheap ass really heard THAT! he came to mom after they left and said..."Did M say she didn't want the money?" He was excited, expectant. Mom got right on it. "We're not doing that, EVERYONE GETS THE SAME, We're GOING TO KEEP THE TRADITION."......he shut up and left. she has had a day to alter the tones and add her denial and re-assemble what she heard. I mentioned it and she said...."He felt bad she didn't want the money." Pahahahahaa I said he jumped right on that." Last year he said how about he give D my a hole brother his $100 and he could SPLIT it with his boys..." pahahaha ma, yes, tell yourself DDDDAAADDDEEEEE feels bad. What he feels; is that $100 dollars is a lot of money and he doesn't want to give everyone money anymore. It was grandmas idea and she handled the cash, and he is a cheap idiot who has no idea how much money he has and thinks like it is 1922. But mom makes herself feel better thinking he just felt bad for my niece. right. the visit itself was hilarious. M is truly a dolt. Kind of an air head, you know "fools and children tell the truth" fart pants would break into conversation mid way, add things that made no sense, that no one gave a shit about, but everyone stops and listened to. and Niece would say "You told me that already grandpa..." or "O.K. that doesn't have anything to do with what we were talking about...God it was hilarious. He went and got a magazine and showed her pictures of hats and boots and told her how much they cost. "Them hats cost $65.00!" It is still funny. yes find your glimmers where you can.

Thank everyone for well wishes and support have a good day tomorrow all! JEN