Needing to vent: Our parents are like children.

It should have read 4 being 4 daughters for the NH and 1 being the 1 son against the NH.

I can totally sympathize and identify with what you are feeling! My husband and I have both his mother and father. We moved into their home 4 months ago and I truly feel we have both aged since then. We having trouble communicating and feel guilty if we are not at their beck and call 24/7.
We do have support occasionally but now that all the family members have taken a turn to give us a break, we are having trouble getting returns. His sister and her husband come about every 5 weeks and his brother comes about every 2 months. It certainly gives us something to look forward to and we do have each other. But watching and caring for 2, you have to have each other.
They never talk anymore or show any kind of joy or happiness. They just complain, bicker, complain, talk to themselves or the wall, and find fault with everything we so. They are not themselves and it is difficult to remain pleasant around them. We try to talk and take them places and do things to make them happy but they just aren't. Is this an impossible task? They don't remember when we do things for them and the daily chores excellerate each day! So yes, I do sympathize with you and sure would like some answers. but I don't think there are any. It is called survival and we all learn as we go. This site is a godsend and it is great to hear back from online friends.
Hang in there and cry when you need to.

Teristeve,
You may not get thanks or reward in this life, but in heaven as His word says. I know that's of little consolation now, but it's real. In the mean time we do what needs to be done and vent when we have to. I pray for all of us. I thank Him for this forum which comforts and enlightens us, that we may continue in His work to care for loved ones we no longer recognize.

My mom died three months ago and as her only daughter and sole caregiver (along with my wonderful husband) the year prior to her death was difficult to say the least. She had lived with us for the past 9 years and when she suffered a stroke last spring we turned our living room into a bedroom for her. We tried to maintain the same lifestyle we had with her before, but she was unable to walk and developed vascular dementia. My mom was almost 90 and was of a sounder mind than my husband and me up until her stroke. Then she became "nasty" with me, saw "people" and accused us of wanting to "throw her out into the street and forget about her." Of all the things wrong with her, the "mind thing" was the most difficult thing for me to deal with. We we exhausted both physically and emotionally by the time she peacefully went home to God. But even though I knew it was coming (and sometimes even prayed for God to take her home...) I was NOT ready to let her go and while I miss my MOM, I would even take back the strange woman she had become because I miss her so much....I pray every day for the strength to get past my grief and would ask each of you, my fellow caregivers to pray for me on this rough journey through grief.

We also have both my parent to care for. One having Parkinson's (dad88) and mon heart and many other things too long of list (86). I agree that it feels that we all age faster because of what we are doing but I have been taking care of them for 5 years 24/7 now and it takes a lot of patience as we all know. I can only suggest to all of you that are pure saints, take time for yourself . The quilt will be released. We all are doing the best we can do . Also as we all know , financially it takes a toll on you also. I've had to quit my job three years ago , to care for both of them. I'm 55 and probably going to be very hard for me to get a job later, but we just can't give up , I keep saying.
I only have one problem, and a big one which you all will probably agree. We can't live on love. Why isn't the government helping the caregivers and pay the ones that are actually living with the family member and unable to work. because of 24/7 care rather than having them in a home and then run out of money for their care , which in turn will cost the state which is us to take care of them. There goes the medicaid system. What are they thinking. We are not asking for much , jsut enough to live on or even just health insurance . I could go on, but I thing you all can relate. I'm sure many of you have lost a lot. Lets all stick together. As I said you are all saints and don't ever think anything less of yourselves.

Hello have you ever thought about a vacation for yourself? did you know there are volunteers that will come and help you out ? I also have done trades with people myself like a friday 5 pm to monday 5 pm shift and no money was envolved instead they paid me with furniture ..i have excepted all kinds of donations other than money in past .say your loved ones have a rv or something no longer can use i have donated my time to care for other loved ones on other than a cash basis..Maybe trade a day out adult daycare with another person daycare exchange so you can get your friends and sanity back....good luck

Roxie... your situation is classic and natural. The worries about Depression are quite healthy! I would be much more concerned if you didn't acknowledge depressive thoughts. The key is to DEFEND yourself as you Care of others. If you are concerned about your well being you are actually more healthy than not! Having said that, seeking the help of a competent professional is never a bad idea. Simple acknowledgment can bring great comfort. Allow me to validate you as a rational person in an irrational situation...no one plans for this!

Please allow yourself time to meet your own needs. One of my favorite Caregiver Affirmations is; "I am a wonderful source of healing for those that I care for because I first love and care for myself!" DOC's (aka, the "Defender of Caregivers!") prescription is to: Recite Daily, Repeat Until Effective!

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

My parents moved in with my husband and I, twenty years ago when we relocated to Florida. They were indepdent and had their own lives, but then 10 years ago my dad passed away rather suddenly. Since then my mother lost all of her indepdence, and her health just fell apart. Now she is angry, bitter and nasty. In addition to having mom living with us, I also have my aunt - mom's 92 year-old sister with us, as she lived alone, and was no longer able to be alone. My marriage has suffered from the loss of privacy and the constant attention needed for my mother, and now my aunt. Yet, my mother complains about me almost on a daily basis and never resists an opportunity to tell me how horrible I am, and how living in my home is horrible. My aunt complains all of the time because "she can't do anything". Her idea of "washing dishes" is to run them under water for a second and then put everything away with the food still on the dishes and utensils. And half of what she eats ends up on the floor. She is constantly coughing and spitting in to tissues and then laying them all over. I try my best, and come in behind her and clean up. But between my mother and my aunt and their constant complaints, I am at the end of my rope. I have no friends, no life outside of my home, where we are together 24/7 and the only place we go is to a doctor visit. My big outing of the week is to go to Walmart alone. My marriage is suffering, and I am suffering, and my brothers are useless in any cries for help. I feel abused and alone and am so hurt that all of my sacrificing and attempts to help my mother and my aunt are only met with more complaining about what a horrible person I am.

Well, just hearing this situation...one word comes to mind HOME. to the assisted living, nursing, group or whatever HOME. You (and I) deserve to have some peace and a marraige. MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS AND NO GOING BACK I SUPPORT YOU

Daughter, you have chosen a very good lable as sacrificing for as you realize yourself that you are sacrificing yourself, your marriage, etc. all on the altar of caregiving for your mother and aunt. I understand your feelings of being abused and alone. Plus, I imagine that your husband feels abandoned and alone. Most men would not have put up with this for 10 years. Has your mother pull some sort of F.O.G. trick on you to take her into your home. What I'm talking about is Fear, Obligation and Guilt which some parents instill in their children and press the buttons when they get older. Niether yourself, your husband, your mother or your aunt need for you to cower before them as if you were still a little girl. This whole context calls for you to get beyond the F.O.G. and be the adult child who stands and make the tough decisions for the sake of your own life and your marriage or what is left of it. Stop being a martyr and defend yourself by getting them out of your home!

Crowemagnum, I love much of what you said, especially the use of F.O.G. for Fear, Obligation and Guilt are huge players in the Caregiver Personality. However, give such strong directed advice may be meant as supportive but is not at the core of DEFENDING the Caregiver. DOC, stands for "Defender of Caregivers!" and we must realize that, in some ways, the Caregiver's crippling F.O.G. is as disabling as this scenario. Rather than to simply say, "get over it, get them out" we must first validate the Caregiver and encourage them to find enough support to accomplish this... believe me, she has already heard your advice before. Just because it is well written does not mean it can be followed! This Caregiver needs help dealing with the F.O.G., but first, we must validate and encourage the journey not simply hove her out the door onto this difficult road.

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

Daughter, 10 years, WOW! You definitely have done your duty and then some. I understand where your husband is coming from. These past 4 years have been a toll on my marriage too.
Although it sounds like you are ready to move on with your life, maybe you should talk to a professional to help you through this tough time. I think if you just go ahead and place them out of frustration, the guilt will get to you.You need help to settle your feelings before you move ahead. Talk to someone from your local senior center and see if they can connect you to a counselor that will help you all to make the transition. And definitely stop feeling guilty and start taking care of YOU!

DC,

I must say that your response was a very self-righteous, judgemental and johnny-come lately spin. If you look at my profile, you will see how many stars that my support has received. I've read some rough statements on this site that I cringed to read and people have strongly dissagreed with my perspective which is fine, but no one has ever come after me like above.

Yes, it was ment as a supportive and sometimes in being supportive one has to be very secific and direct. The one thing that I left out which I would include is that to accomplish all of this most likely is going to take the help of a professional therapist which I'm not but have spent 8 years in therapy dealing with F.O.G. concerning people in my life with Borderline Personality Disorder as well as other issues. About 5 years ago, after years of therapy my wife stopped hiding behind my britches and moved beyond the F.O.G. to deal with her 'mommy dearest mother' with whom she was more emptionally attached that she was to me as her husband and to our children as their mother. I put up with that crap, passivly, from 1988-2002 and to put it bluntly most men would not have stayed in this marriage like I have but my mother did not raise me to be like most men.

Duaghter,

I'm not a therapist, but I've spent years in therapy dealing with F.O.G. because of the abuse that I put up with from people in my family with borderline personality disorder. I know how hard it is to set those first boundaries and enforce actual consequences when they are broken. I've see my wife spend several years in therapy dealing with her own F.O.G. as I felt for years like a single parent and our children did not feel like they had a mother.

I say all this to add something more which I normally say and that is for someone in your shoes as beat down as you have been, as a lone as you are feeling, and the challenges that you have at home, I urge you to find a competent therapist.

Keep coming here and writing. There are many here who were in the F.O.G., but now are getting free since coming here.. I'd love for you to hear from them.

Sacrficingdaughter
I completely understand your situation. Even tho my mother has only lived with us for 4 years. There is help out there. Have you spoke to a doctor about the situation. The office may be able to put you in contact with an agency that can help... A homemaker that comes in for so many hours may be just what you need to get away.
I have just signed up for respite so my husband and I can get out of the house together and have a meal with the other world.
I totally understand the Walmart thing..I go 4 days a week alone to Walmart and believe me I can tell you when they stock their shelves and when they dont. My family tells me just get out of the house...well that is not the answer ....I am alone in taking care of my mother then I am alone going places....then I do not have the money to spend to make me feel better...I just window shop alone....
If the answer is to move your mother and aunt to a place then that is the answer, but you need someone to talk to first...do not make any decisions before thinking everything through and get yourself under control.....
Yes everyone wants their lives back I do, but right now I am here for my mother....and believe me there are days I just want to drop her off at a nursing home....but before I make a decision I sleep on it...and she is still in my home....that doesnt mean someday I will put her in a nursing home because I can not provide the care she needs.
She wants me every 15 minutes (she is bedridden) for something and usually its not anything at all. The last two weeks she could not get comfortable I was up for 3 days straight and believe me I was ready for the move.....but things have calmed down the last two days...
I have also lost all my friends due to the fact I have chosen to take care of my mother, but I do stay in touch with them through the computer. I just cant get out to visit with them.
Please try and contact either your physician or an agency in your area to help you.
I understand what you are going through just hang in there a little longer until you can find out some information for help.

Crowemagnum... I assume you are talking to me, DOC, and I was not being critical of you at all... In fact, I complimented you! My point simply is that pushing people onto a difficult road is not alone the best course of action. People must be ready to travel the path not just step out onto it! You made excellent points but specific directives can be dangerous...

The aftermath ramifications of F.O.G. can be just as crippling as over-commitment of co-dependent behavior. You can't move onto the next thing until you have resolved the thing you are dealing with in the moment.

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

To Crowe and DOC,

A micro-challenge:

Could one of you either cut and paste your thoughts on F.O.G. or else point to a topic where it is previously defined?

It is used so often here in a, "THAT explains everything" sense, that I would like to judge for myself whether or not it is a useful insight.

Thanks

Good point, Ismael. Sometimes people push their perspective on others, when others just "don't get it," or see things the same way. This is an individual journey, and not the same for everyone. What works for one, may not necessarily work for another. And I am in no position to tell another what to do, as I don't have their experience, insight, or all the particulars. Sometimes people are just wanting to "vent," (hence, the thread) are are not looking for someone else's opinion. If asked for, that's another story. Like DOC was saying, sometimes we just need compassion, and grace. Validation can be a wonderfully freeing thing, and loving support does wonders!

In response to Ishmael... I don't know that it is appropriate to give a link to a website here, but you can certainly find one in my profile. I expand on the concept of F.O.G. (without using the expression) in my whitepaper (still in draft but available nonetheless) entitled; "The Caregivers Dilemma; How to Care for Others Without Losing Yourself"

The basis behind it is the concept that Caregivers are either BORN (nature/natural) or BORNE (nurture/learned, through accepting a role or responsibility). Either way, "you are what you do all day" and to be a successful Caregiver you either possess or adopt certain personality/survival traits... one of them being to defer your own needs to the satisfaction of others and to receive satisfaction through pleasing others. Nature Caregivers are prone to Overcommitment and Nurture Caregivers are driven by Obligation... to minimize the "O" in F.O.G. you can create F.o.G where Fear and Guilt become supercharged and are only satisfied by more Overcommitment/Obligation.

DISCLAIMER: this is all in my humble (yet experienced based on a career of observations) opinion!

Thanks for asking...

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

DOCaregivers I agree with you. The strain of taking care of my mom was almost beyond tolerable when she finally died. A few weeks prior to her death my loving husband and caring friends were compassionately trying to help me by saying it was time to put my mom in a place where she could receive better care (as if THAT would have happend...). Anyway, I thank God every day that he took her before I was forced into making a decision that I truly don't believe I could have lived with. I would rather have died myself than place her somewhere. I know that is the point you were trying to make it has to be the caregiver's decision and only that person knows if/when the time is right and if they can live with the decision. There are so many difficult decisions we as caregivers have to make and I feel for each one of you. God bless you all and I pray that God will give you the strength and wisdom to do whatever is best both for you and for the person you are taking care of.

Ishmael,

F.O.G. is an anacronym created for people who are in a co-dependent relationship with someone with a personality disorder. For example, you wil find it in the book, Stop Walking On Eggshells. However, this co-dependent lifestyle is visible with caregivers also and was very true of me in both my marriage and in my former profession.

If you google, F.O.G. Fear, Obligation and Guilt, you will find quite a list of places to visit from mental health to my favorite Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail.

Very often the seeds for this F.O.G. are planted in a person's life by a parent either out of a personality issue, an unhealth view of parenting, or sick religious teach as Wayne Oates, who is a Christian therapist, writes about in his book, When Religion Gets Sick, and some other author writes about in Toxic Faith.

While the broader issue in any caretaking is boundaries for which there are tons of books both secular, Christian, and some I think are Christian in spirit but the arthor does not make that the main thing, the underling power beneath poor boundaries is some combination of Fear of making this person which in this case is a mother and and ant more angry, disown them, write them out of there will or whatever or in some cases religious fear, plus obligation based in tradition or a manipulative use of religious teaching, and then the big heavey -Guilt which has no room for grace, forgiveness, or flexibility in how the person is a caretaker because the fear and obligation has them feeling trapped into doing the caregiving just like 'the parent'-very often the mother as I've read here time and time again while the caregiver-most often the daughter or daughter in law while very often being quite aware of the emotional abuse, the negative impact upon their physical, mental and social health as their fianances, their job, the business they spent years creating, their dream house they bought or built and primary relationships like marriage; children (both little and grown), plus grand children are either dying quickly or long dead. Thus, my comment on your wall about needing a play with the ghost of caregivers past who stayed stuck in the FOG, got free of the FOG and a ghost of caregiving future that portrays the possible life of the caregiver if they stay stuck in the F.O.G. The one statement that I read one night that really angered me was that as painful as it might be to leave their spouse they would because the bible tells them to take care of their aging parent. It does say make sure the elderly parent is taken care of, but it does no say you have to do it directly yourself not does it say that when your parents get old that you leave your spouse and go cling to your elderly declining parents. Think I'm exaggerating? My grandmother told my mother 'it is time for you to leave your current husband and come home to take care of me.' Some long term therapy uncovered that my wife way down deep felt she was to be her mother's mother when asked about her role as a mother when we have two boys. For years, she was far more into her mother until she set some boundaries which were preceeding by my getting my own life back and protecting the boys for all this sickness at home and the extended family by setting some boundaries with consequences that I did follow through with which did make my wife extremely mad, but I did it anyway and thankfully she chose for heself a healthier path and for the last 5 years she's been more fully present in our home as both a wife and a mother!

This probably answers more than your original question.

Everyone has their own way of dealing with life, and shouldn't be made to feel guilty because they don't fit into someone's idea of how it should be. It's amazing how the average person finds the will to go on after the devastating blows life can dole out! Whether it's a person's belief in God or just believing in one's self, I find it very remarkable that we can get on with our lives when the time comes. Everyone, keep up the good work and remember to give yourself a break once and a while, and don't take other's opinions personally. It's not worth the added stress!!!

I believe I was injected at birth with the F.O.G. virus by my mother. Never knew what it was called until I read what Crowe had to say on the subject. Let me say, it changed my life. I use it in my daily life now.I've told my adult daughter about it. I stumbled through life always being walked on and doing things out of guilt, especially anything with my mom. If I had only known this when I was younger how different my life would've been. Watching my daughter repeat some of my mistakes made me realize she needed to change. My mom made sure my life was filled with F.O.G. but I don't want that for my daughter. Mom thrived on making us feel fearful, obligated and guilty. I do not want my kids to ever have those feelings about anyone, especially about me. It brought me loads of unhappiness especially when I was caring for mom.
My mom expected me to quit my job, spend all my time with her instead of my husband, kids and grandkids and then tried to subject me to continuous criticisim, much like Crowe's wife and her mother. It was a living nightmare and it was WRONG. Caring for her was horrendous. If you have a loved one you are caring for and you love them, you are very blessed. Others of us are not so fortunate.

Having flippantly refered to myself as "the servant" to a nurse one day; mom piped in with "that's the way I planned it 50 years ago".
Is that BPD or sociopath? HA HA
Thanks mom I love you too.
Yes, some of them make their twisted little plans but God is our vidicator.
Still we have to protect ourselves. "Guard your heart with all dilligence"
We can still care for them without allowing ourselves to be destroyed.

to Jaczynsi... ding, ding, ding, ding... you hit the nail on the head! Thank you for clarifying my point. BTW, I happen to think Crowemagnum is a VERY good source here... we just had a bit of a mis-understanding initially that we have since resolved off-line. Crowemagnum gives great advice and means well by offering tough love while my thing is DEFENDING. Thanks again.

DOC, aka, "Defender of Caregivers!"

i know, i am with my alzheimer mom 24/7. my husband is uncomfortable around her in case she has to go to the bathroom so i have to go to the store at night when she goes to bed at eight thirty or nine. went camping and she went to was good. everybody was so nice and started talking aout their parents in kind of guilty way and praising me for doing it even tho they arent doing it.thought i was going crazy too. have friends over during the day, and those that have babies- mom laffs at americas funiest videos we watch at least 5 times a day... she sleeps too much . wakes up lately around 1 or 2. any ideas... if i try to get her up she gets mean

Beta42,
My MIL and FIL sleep often during the day. They are like many catnaps throughout the day. But come time to really go to bed and they become night owls which means that they have a difficult time waking up in the AM. During the week I have to get them up early so we can drop them off at daycare for half a day while we work. It is a problem that doesn't seem to have an answer. Sort of like when your babies had their days and nights mixed up.
Any suggestions out there???

This is so common with elders, and I don't know of a solution. I hope someone has some suggestions. The obvious one of keeping them from napping is not realistic in most cases. Older folks, with or without dementia, tend to sleep less at night. They are naturally tired during the day and then nap. The cycle continues. Dementia often makes this worse.

Checking with a doctor is a good idea. Meanwhile, let's hope someone on the forum has a magical solution.
Best wishes,
Carol

Mom is running all day! Her OCD was out of control, and even though she was exhausted, she would not nap. She is now on seroquel and it seems to have put the brakes on her brain for a few hours a day. She still will not nap, but is thankfully in bed by 6:30. Sundowning starts around 5. She rarely gets up during the night, and sleeps through until I get her up at 8:30 the next morning. That is a life saver! Most nights I try to get her up before I go to bed, and change her out of her wet diaper and sometimes nightgown too. But she's kind of sleep walking through that whole process.
I still have to have the baby monitor with me, and sit by the laptop so I can check her on the cameras, that I couldn't live without! What a major difference they make. The only time I have a problem with her not sleeping, is when she has a UTI, then all bets are off. I just hope that her sleep pattern continues. She raised 7 kids and always went to bed early to get a good night's sleep, so it's been a lifelong habit.

I just want to say to everyone thanks for all the support and discussions. I have enjoyed each and everyone of you. I pray for each and everyone of you and your love one. It does take a special person to hang in there.
I have vented on this website many time about the same things as you. I got good support and ideas that I could use during the course of taking care of my mother.
Well the end is near, I called Hospice three weeks ago. They have given her two weeks left on this earth. Only the Lord knows the date and time. It is harder than I thought. She has went through so many stages in the last year, some good and some bad...but now she just lies there with medication in her to keep her comfortable. Which I do believe she is very comfortable.....
With all the different stages and my different feelings of being on a rollercoaster seems so small now...I look at her and can not believe how strong of a woman she has been her whole life....
I just hope I am as strong as her someday...
When the day comes I do not know how I will react that scares me...not being able to see her eyes again, hold her hand, kiss her cheek, and esp. to talk about everything. She is truly my best friend and I love her deeply. At this point I do not have guilt.
Can not say I enjoyed every minute, but I did enjoy the good times. Many days she would not know any of us so the days she did was so precious....
I just want to tell everyone that is able to stay until the end It is a blessing-If you can not still when the time comes for your loved one to go on -It will still be a blessing to be a part of that person's life.
Take care everyone