Needing to vent: Our parents are like children.

To Crowe and DOC,

A micro-challenge:

Could one of you either cut and paste your thoughts on F.O.G. or else point to a topic where it is previously defined?

It is used so often here in a, "THAT explains everything" sense, that I would like to judge for myself whether or not it is a useful insight.

Thanks

Crowemagnum... I assume you are talking to me, DOC, and I was not being critical of you at all... In fact, I complimented you! My point simply is that pushing people onto a difficult road is not alone the best course of action. People must be ready to travel the path not just step out onto it! You made excellent points but specific directives can be dangerous...

The aftermath ramifications of F.O.G. can be just as crippling as over-commitment of co-dependent behavior. You can't move onto the next thing until you have resolved the thing you are dealing with in the moment.

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

Sacrficingdaughter
I completely understand your situation. Even tho my mother has only lived with us for 4 years. There is help out there. Have you spoke to a doctor about the situation. The office may be able to put you in contact with an agency that can help... A homemaker that comes in for so many hours may be just what you need to get away.
I have just signed up for respite so my husband and I can get out of the house together and have a meal with the other world.
I totally understand the Walmart thing..I go 4 days a week alone to Walmart and believe me I can tell you when they stock their shelves and when they dont. My family tells me just get out of the house...well that is not the answer ....I am alone in taking care of my mother then I am alone going places....then I do not have the money to spend to make me feel better...I just window shop alone....
If the answer is to move your mother and aunt to a place then that is the answer, but you need someone to talk to first...do not make any decisions before thinking everything through and get yourself under control.....
Yes everyone wants their lives back I do, but right now I am here for my mother....and believe me there are days I just want to drop her off at a nursing home....but before I make a decision I sleep on it...and she is still in my home....that doesnt mean someday I will put her in a nursing home because I can not provide the care she needs.
She wants me every 15 minutes (she is bedridden) for something and usually its not anything at all. The last two weeks she could not get comfortable I was up for 3 days straight and believe me I was ready for the move.....but things have calmed down the last two days...
I have also lost all my friends due to the fact I have chosen to take care of my mother, but I do stay in touch with them through the computer. I just cant get out to visit with them.
Please try and contact either your physician or an agency in your area to help you.
I understand what you are going through just hang in there a little longer until you can find out some information for help.

Duaghter,

I'm not a therapist, but I've spent years in therapy dealing with F.O.G. because of the abuse that I put up with from people in my family with borderline personality disorder. I know how hard it is to set those first boundaries and enforce actual consequences when they are broken. I've see my wife spend several years in therapy dealing with her own F.O.G. as I felt for years like a single parent and our children did not feel like they had a mother.

I say all this to add something more which I normally say and that is for someone in your shoes as beat down as you have been, as a lone as you are feeling, and the challenges that you have at home, I urge you to find a competent therapist.

Keep coming here and writing. There are many here who were in the F.O.G., but now are getting free since coming here.. I'd love for you to hear from them.

DC,

I must say that your response was a very self-righteous, judgemental and johnny-come lately spin. If you look at my profile, you will see how many stars that my support has received. I've read some rough statements on this site that I cringed to read and people have strongly dissagreed with my perspective which is fine, but no one has ever come after me like above.

Yes, it was ment as a supportive and sometimes in being supportive one has to be very secific and direct. The one thing that I left out which I would include is that to accomplish all of this most likely is going to take the help of a professional therapist which I'm not but have spent 8 years in therapy dealing with F.O.G. concerning people in my life with Borderline Personality Disorder as well as other issues. About 5 years ago, after years of therapy my wife stopped hiding behind my britches and moved beyond the F.O.G. to deal with her 'mommy dearest mother' with whom she was more emptionally attached that she was to me as her husband and to our children as their mother. I put up with that crap, passivly, from 1988-2002 and to put it bluntly most men would not have stayed in this marriage like I have but my mother did not raise me to be like most men.

Daughter, 10 years, WOW! You definitely have done your duty and then some. I understand where your husband is coming from. These past 4 years have been a toll on my marriage too.
Although it sounds like you are ready to move on with your life, maybe you should talk to a professional to help you through this tough time. I think if you just go ahead and place them out of frustration, the guilt will get to you.You need help to settle your feelings before you move ahead. Talk to someone from your local senior center and see if they can connect you to a counselor that will help you all to make the transition. And definitely stop feeling guilty and start taking care of YOU!

Crowemagnum, I love much of what you said, especially the use of F.O.G. for Fear, Obligation and Guilt are huge players in the Caregiver Personality. However, give such strong directed advice may be meant as supportive but is not at the core of DEFENDING the Caregiver. DOC, stands for "Defender of Caregivers!" and we must realize that, in some ways, the Caregiver's crippling F.O.G. is as disabling as this scenario. Rather than to simply say, "get over it, get them out" we must first validate the Caregiver and encourage them to find enough support to accomplish this... believe me, she has already heard your advice before. Just because it is well written does not mean it can be followed! This Caregiver needs help dealing with the F.O.G., but first, we must validate and encourage the journey not simply hove her out the door onto this difficult road.

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

Daughter, you have chosen a very good lable as sacrificing for as you realize yourself that you are sacrificing yourself, your marriage, etc. all on the altar of caregiving for your mother and aunt. I understand your feelings of being abused and alone. Plus, I imagine that your husband feels abandoned and alone. Most men would not have put up with this for 10 years. Has your mother pull some sort of F.O.G. trick on you to take her into your home. What I'm talking about is Fear, Obligation and Guilt which some parents instill in their children and press the buttons when they get older. Niether yourself, your husband, your mother or your aunt need for you to cower before them as if you were still a little girl. This whole context calls for you to get beyond the F.O.G. and be the adult child who stands and make the tough decisions for the sake of your own life and your marriage or what is left of it. Stop being a martyr and defend yourself by getting them out of your home!

Well, just hearing this situation...one word comes to mind HOME. to the assisted living, nursing, group or whatever HOME. You (and I) deserve to have some peace and a marraige. MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS AND NO GOING BACK I SUPPORT YOU

My parents moved in with my husband and I, twenty years ago when we relocated to Florida. They were indepdent and had their own lives, but then 10 years ago my dad passed away rather suddenly. Since then my mother lost all of her indepdence, and her health just fell apart. Now she is angry, bitter and nasty. In addition to having mom living with us, I also have my aunt - mom's 92 year-old sister with us, as she lived alone, and was no longer able to be alone. My marriage has suffered from the loss of privacy and the constant attention needed for my mother, and now my aunt. Yet, my mother complains about me almost on a daily basis and never resists an opportunity to tell me how horrible I am, and how living in my home is horrible. My aunt complains all of the time because "she can't do anything". Her idea of "washing dishes" is to run them under water for a second and then put everything away with the food still on the dishes and utensils. And half of what she eats ends up on the floor. She is constantly coughing and spitting in to tissues and then laying them all over. I try my best, and come in behind her and clean up. But between my mother and my aunt and their constant complaints, I am at the end of my rope. I have no friends, no life outside of my home, where we are together 24/7 and the only place we go is to a doctor visit. My big outing of the week is to go to Walmart alone. My marriage is suffering, and I am suffering, and my brothers are useless in any cries for help. I feel abused and alone and am so hurt that all of my sacrificing and attempts to help my mother and my aunt are only met with more complaining about what a horrible person I am.

Roxie... your situation is classic and natural. The worries about Depression are quite healthy! I would be much more concerned if you didn't acknowledge depressive thoughts. The key is to DEFEND yourself as you Care of others. If you are concerned about your well being you are actually more healthy than not! Having said that, seeking the help of a competent professional is never a bad idea. Simple acknowledgment can bring great comfort. Allow me to validate you as a rational person in an irrational situation...no one plans for this!

Please allow yourself time to meet your own needs. One of my favorite Caregiver Affirmations is; "I am a wonderful source of healing for those that I care for because I first love and care for myself!" DOC's (aka, the "Defender of Caregivers!") prescription is to: Recite Daily, Repeat Until Effective!

HONOR yourself as you Care for others!

Hello have you ever thought about a vacation for yourself? did you know there are volunteers that will come and help you out ? I also have done trades with people myself like a friday 5 pm to monday 5 pm shift and no money was envolved instead they paid me with furniture ..i have excepted all kinds of donations other than money in past .say your loved ones have a rv or something no longer can use i have donated my time to care for other loved ones on other than a cash basis..Maybe trade a day out adult daycare with another person daycare exchange so you can get your friends and sanity back....good luck

We also have both my parent to care for. One having Parkinson's (dad88) and mon heart and many other things too long of list (86). I agree that it feels that we all age faster because of what we are doing but I have been taking care of them for 5 years 24/7 now and it takes a lot of patience as we all know. I can only suggest to all of you that are pure saints, take time for yourself . The quilt will be released. We all are doing the best we can do . Also as we all know , financially it takes a toll on you also. I've had to quit my job three years ago , to care for both of them. I'm 55 and probably going to be very hard for me to get a job later, but we just can't give up , I keep saying.
I only have one problem, and a big one which you all will probably agree. We can't live on love. Why isn't the government helping the caregivers and pay the ones that are actually living with the family member and unable to work. because of 24/7 care rather than having them in a home and then run out of money for their care , which in turn will cost the state which is us to take care of them. There goes the medicaid system. What are they thinking. We are not asking for much , jsut enough to live on or even just health insurance . I could go on, but I thing you all can relate. I'm sure many of you have lost a lot. Lets all stick together. As I said you are all saints and don't ever think anything less of yourselves.

My mom died three months ago and as her only daughter and sole caregiver (along with my wonderful husband) the year prior to her death was difficult to say the least. She had lived with us for the past 9 years and when she suffered a stroke last spring we turned our living room into a bedroom for her. We tried to maintain the same lifestyle we had with her before, but she was unable to walk and developed vascular dementia. My mom was almost 90 and was of a sounder mind than my husband and me up until her stroke. Then she became "nasty" with me, saw "people" and accused us of wanting to "throw her out into the street and forget about her." Of all the things wrong with her, the "mind thing" was the most difficult thing for me to deal with. We we exhausted both physically and emotionally by the time she peacefully went home to God. But even though I knew it was coming (and sometimes even prayed for God to take her home...) I was NOT ready to let her go and while I miss my MOM, I would even take back the strange woman she had become because I miss her so much....I pray every day for the strength to get past my grief and would ask each of you, my fellow caregivers to pray for me on this rough journey through grief.

Teristeve,
You may not get thanks or reward in this life, but in heaven as His word says. I know that's of little consolation now, but it's real. In the mean time we do what needs to be done and vent when we have to. I pray for all of us. I thank Him for this forum which comforts and enlightens us, that we may continue in His work to care for loved ones we no longer recognize.

I can totally sympathize and identify with what you are feeling! My husband and I have both his mother and father. We moved into their home 4 months ago and I truly feel we have both aged since then. We having trouble communicating and feel guilty if we are not at their beck and call 24/7.
We do have support occasionally but now that all the family members have taken a turn to give us a break, we are having trouble getting returns. His sister and her husband come about every 5 weeks and his brother comes about every 2 months. It certainly gives us something to look forward to and we do have each other. But watching and caring for 2, you have to have each other.
They never talk anymore or show any kind of joy or happiness. They just complain, bicker, complain, talk to themselves or the wall, and find fault with everything we so. They are not themselves and it is difficult to remain pleasant around them. We try to talk and take them places and do things to make them happy but they just aren't. Is this an impossible task? They don't remember when we do things for them and the daily chores excellerate each day! So yes, I do sympathize with you and sure would like some answers. but I don't think there are any. It is called survival and we all learn as we go. This site is a godsend and it is great to hear back from online friends.
Hang in there and cry when you need to.

It should have read 4 being 4 daughters for the NH and 1 being the 1 son against the NH.

When I entered the sentence "Who was she..." I should have used a question mark instead of a period.

I should also explain 4-1 (4 being the 4 daughters for the NH and 1 being the 1 against the NH).

Since I'm not blood, I don't count--even though I was Primary Caregiver.
...and DPOA SIL had said a while ago, that I was like a sister. She probably doesn't even remember. Let her take control like she wants.
I'm done.

I am feeling the need to vent. I was Primary Caregiver for my MIL. I finally got thru to my DPOA SIL that my MIL needed to go to the drs. office to get tested for a more than probable UTI.
She made arrangements for my oldest SIL to take us to the dr. but sounded like this was not convenient for her (oldest SIL). I knew my husband had gone to work early and would possibly be home in time for her appt. (He just started a new job). I called him and he said he could.
Anyway, she had been having mini seizures (no shaking tho) from 12 noon on Sunday, the 23rd and they were having trouble getting her to the car on Sunday evening to come home. On Monday, she woke up and was fine all day and all day Tuesday until we got to the drs. office. She got up to walk over to the walker and just went stiff and fell against the car. We also were going to ask her about having HHAs in thru the night (because she was probably getting up to go 10-12 steps to the b/r during the night). We could explain some of the bruises, but not all. She was on Coumadin (blood thinner) and since she's elderly (almost 79 yrs. old) her blood was getting thinner. The dr. said she may have to quit Coumadin and wanted a Direct Admit into the hospital. My 3rd oldest SIL was talking to my husband on the phone (she hardly visited my MIL) and screamed at him into the phone, "You know she's going into the Nursing Home from the hospital!" Who was she to say that to him when my husband helped out when he wasn't at work and she hardly came to visit.
She probably thinks she could because she is a nurse. ...and the DPOA SIL said she tested negative for a UTI. I accepted that and then later I thought about last July when she was treated for a UTI. In the drs. office, it came back negative and the dr. sent it out to a hospital lab, and it came back positive. So, he put her on Macrobid. So I called the hospital and told them about last July. They made a note of it. It had come back positive from the lab. My DPOA SIL had been wrong at both times. ...and she's a nurse also. I don't have a nursing degree and guessed right. Then I talked to someone at COA and found out Medicare only covers Nursing Homes IF the patient goes directly from the hospital--NOT from a private home to a NH. The last time that my MIL went into the hospital and my DPOA SIL was adament that she was going to a NH & at that point, we had only taken care of my MIL for three (3) months, so when my DPOA SIL found out that Medicare would only cover a certain # of days, my husband & I talked and we offered to bring her back home. This time, my DPOA SIL was very adament and put it to a vote. It was 4-1--so she wasn't coming back (and she was adament about her not going into the NH a month and a half ago). So I was talking with my husband and he said since DPOA wouldn't hear of her coming back, then he wanted everything out of the house by the end of the month (May). He wouldn't make the call, so I did. My youngest SIL came by and got some things out and the rest of her furniture is going into the garage to be dealt with by my DPOA SIL (I'm guessing--if she doesn't send somebody else to face us).
...but she only has until the end of June to get the furniture out or it goes to the curb for the garbage man to take.

Your wife might be waiting for someone else to say it is too much for her like I was -a very wise counsuler told me I was waiting for someone to rescue me and that was not going to happen and so I made the decision to place him-ask her if she thinks it is too much for her.

My wife and I are at the decision point when it comes to my mother-in-law, who lives with us, has dementia, and can no longer walk. If it were just a matter of picking her up, transferring her from point A to point B, feeding her, and giving her meds, we would not be even considering moving her to some sort of care facility. But the problem comes when we consider the stress level it is causing my wife to suffer. My mother-in-law gets into these modes where she yells out and hates everyone, especially my wife. She is really starting to hallucinate and can be very combative and uncooperative. Doctors are continually adjusting her meds but nothing seems to help. My mother-in-law is either combative or heavily sedated. We can't seem to find a happy medium. We do have in-home help, but we can sense that these people are starting to becoming very nervous in trying to do their jobs. We would like to keep her at home but when does my wife make the decision that she has done all she can and she needs to begin thinking about her own health and sanity?

altersheim, your dad being a doc, and the things he taught you were invaluable. Sounds like a good man.

Tennessee, your words, "...crucial to have family around..." are so true! But we don't always have the answers. Sometimes we do, though, and need to have God's help through prayer when we don't.

godhelpus, I think you'd agree with that.

lhardebeck, sounds like you were listening to God's guidance with your dad. He does listen when we speak, and will direct us when we trust in him.

glueiton, hope you're finding the answers you need on this site.

I feel like I'm failing my dad. I don't have all the answers, and even when I do have an idea that my dad needs something different, the staff at his nursing home and their "system" relies on government protocol to set policy. I hate the intrusion of the government, who don't care about individuals, but their own agenda. I think we will find things getting worse in the days ahead. Even as a family advocate for my dad, the "machine", or "regime" is more powerful then an individual advocate. They will dictate treatment decisions based on their agenda, etc. I feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, as even my family think my dad is "fine," when I know he's NOT! I am there almost every day, and see the signs of medicine overuse, and neglect. I will be praying about the changes that need to occur. Dad's behavior was dangerous, which is why he couldn't come to my home. He placed a bag over my then 7 year old son's head, was wandering, getting lost, and getting into neighbor's mailboxes. He was going into neighbor's houses, looking for "whiskey," and he was violent. So coming to my home was not an option, but my heart is breaking with the lack of treatment and care they give at even the best nursing homes. We have two dads there, and they sleep a lot. Sickening! What a sad situation. Wish I knew what to do to change things, but am searching...because the funds aren't there for private care for our two dads. The system is killing my loved ones, including one in subsidized housing. How anyone can overlook the obvious problems with this is beyond comprehension. I grieve silently, praying for a solution.

oh wow, I just looked at the date on the post and it was 2008- I hadn't realized the posts weren't in order by date. sorry!!

Roxie,
I am way more new at this than you are and I noticed something you said in your last post. You said your mother does great and then all of the sudden it changes? Really??! When this happens with my grandmother, I think I am going crazy. I can never understand WHY there is the change. I always ask, "what did I do differently?, what can I change?". I can't seem to get a reason out of any doctors. I just don't get it. Does this change happen with your mom b.c of a medical reason or is it unexplained?
Good luck!!!- and crying breakdowns- I am with you on that one!! I feel better afterwards. I think we just all need to get it out.

Alwaysmyduty, In that boat right along with you. Professionals often can't be trusted. Their records get stuck too and assume all caregivers do not have their loved ones best interest at heart. Years ago when my mom had CDiff the doctor tried to say that I had been starving her when it was his associate that gave her the course of IV antibiotics without warning her to replenish the good bacteria. That litterally almost killed her. If I hadn't dropped him on our next visit to the hospital I'm sure she wouldn't be here today.
Thank God the Emergency doc told us we could change docs going through Emergency!!! What a good man!!! Since then, every time I go with her to hosp I stress that I don't want him anywhere near her!!
LHARDEBECK,
Good thing you caught that with his meds. So right about the trust thing. Although they tell me there is no sign of dementia; my mom also has the broken record syndrome and irrational also. From what I've seen on this site in just the past few days, I can deal with it better and now know better.
Thanks

when i first got dad out of nursing home , i wasnt aware of his behavior at the time . he kept saying the words over and over it stuck like a broken record . creep me out , took him to hospital and they sent him to behavior clinic . kept him there over a week . i finaly brought him home and lord behold theres more meds added to the list .
i looked up the internet to see what its treated for , wow ! seziures , bioplar , alz , i felt very uneasy about those mmeds . i felt bad too cuz i didnt know why he s behavin like that .
he gotten worst and lost 30 lbs in a month , dyin he was . i kept hearing inner voice tellin me stop those meds ! so i stop giving it to him ,
he bounce back up and feltbetter and put on some pounds .
all those drugs that the bevahior givin to him was killing him slowly .
i realized that it is his dementia and he cant help it if he sounded like a broken record . its something that ive gotta deal with and it sounds like music to my ears . ifhe gets outta hands so bad id give him his xannax and it works just fine . alot better than those bioplar , seziures meds , cuz he dont have thos epblms . just dementia is all .
altersheim ,your dad is a smart man ! he knows !!

SS, you don't trust docs,meds or govt, neither do I. I think tennessee and I would add lawyers to the "no trust list" too. Anyway, when I was caring for mom, before she disowned me, I was appalled that her doc had her on 19 meds when she supposedly had stage 4 cirrohis of the liver(among other illnesses). On one visit, I asked him about dementia (told mom I was going to ask beforehand). He asked her the date,her age, her address, the president's name. When she answered, he whirled around to me and sneered "she's fine". Well, alrighty then. I don't trust him as far as I can spit but she thinks he is her friend. Yeh, a friend to her wallet.
Oh, yes, add one more thing to the "no trust list" . . . my mother.

Tennesse and SecretSister,

Thank you so much for your support! You are both so right on! Yes, I found a whole new set of doctors who fortunately listen me. This is one of the reasons I won't let my Mom go to a nursing home - because only I truly know her symptoms.! The doctors and nurses don't have the time, energy - and sometimes, unfortunately are too arrogant in their 'knowlege!' It's funny - my Dad never took us to the doctor (unless it was an emergency such as a bone break or appendicitus) nor would he let us take any medication at all - over the counter or prescribed (again, unless absolutely needed like an antibiotic) - and he was a doctor! Now, I understand why... However, for some reason I thought that things had improved in the last 30 years. Secret Sister - don't forget to throw in profit driven corporations into the mix!

Wishing you both a great holiday weekend!

I'VE caught many of mistake with doctors,some life threatening.The more arrogant the doctor or nurse the more mistakes.Humble doctors are the best,they keep in mind they are human.Once they were going to cut my dad open to put in a pace maker,when all he needed was a medication adjustment.I wasn't a doctor,but I knew his symtoms better than anyone,so I stepped in,that is why it is crucial to have family around.My dad said doctors kill about as many people as they save and it best to stay away if possible,but it comes a time you can't do that.

Altersheim, they don't call them "practicing physicians" for nothing... I think I'd be getting mom a new doc. They play God, and aren't, and discount a son or daughter's input. Disgusting! You are her best advocate. I don't trust docs or meds or the govt., but that's a different story. I am looking to have my dad's meds changes, because I wonder how many of his side effects are caused by them, though we KNOW he has dementia, or Alzheimer's, or something... And it's hard feeling helpless in the face of such nasty diseases.