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Before beginning THIS question ~ thank you to everyone who helped with suggestions in my questions about celebrating Dad’s 92nd birthday. We just brought in burgers, fries and milkshakes ~ he didn’t say much but I think he appreciated the thoughts…
TODAY’s Question: Am I expecting too much, or is this neglect?Dad is in an assisted living, one bedroom apartment that costs $6200 a month and pays another $900 a month for extra care in ADLs - ‘dressing, toileting when needed, reminders to brush teeth, shower help, etc. I also have a once a month caregiver from the outside to come in and do a ‘spa day’ for him where she cuts his hair, and tends to his fingernails and toenails and exfoliates his extremely dry skin. I visit him three times a week - short 30-45 minute visits - to check in on him, bring him his chocolate milkshake and check his room for needed toiletries, drinks, and incontinence supplies (wipes, bed pads, tab night times and depends pull ups, etc. When I walked in last week at 2pm there was fecal material wiped all over his bed sheets and down the side of the sheets. When I went downstairs to the AL director and asked her to please go to his room to do a room check. She did, I never saw her again before I left. While waiting on her I sat next to Dad by the fireplace he was drinking the milkshake and I saw that under his fingernails there was a very dark matter - appearing to be fecal material. I was horrified, I got paper towels and hand sanitizer and tried to clean it myself. Sorry, this is so long, but that day I saw the sheets and his hands I was inconsolable, holding my father and crying and telling him that I was so sorry that he was living like this, on his own and uncared for. People asked me what was wrong because they always ‘take good care of Dad, not to worry he is in good hands.’ I was still crying and told them to look at his hands, look at his bed - it was a disgrace. A few minutes later two caregivers came by on their way off shift and apologized to ME that they didn’t notice the sheets and that Dad was at breakfast when they came on shift and that they had just stripped and remade his bed because the ‘night girls’ didnt do it before they left at 730am. I thanked them for their apologies, then asked them to look at his hands - they looked and said, oh, he needs his nails cut. I said no, he needs them cleaned because in my opinion that was fecal material under his nails, while touching things in the facility, while eating breakfast, while eating lunch and while shaking people’s hands all day long. I went back the next day and only one of his hands had been cleaned and nails trimmed. So, very long story short - read the question title: Am I expecting too much, or is this neglect?

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Maybe he needs more supervision than is available in AL? This could be a one time mix-up at shift change or maybe dad needs more care than they can provide. I hope it is a one time mistake, but have a discussion with the nursing director. It sounds horrible and neglectful to me. I reread your post and it sounds like he is having incontinence problems and needs assistance with toileting and cleaning. It does sound as if he needs a higher level of care. Ask them about it.
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Reply to Sandra2424
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Kathy, I think it's a bit of both.

First off, you love your Dad and want the absolute best for him. So of course you expect a lot. Why wouldn't you?

But, I experienced something similar with my mom. I was visiting her and was sitting on edge of her bed. A nurse came in and said "maybe don't sit there cause elderly people dig." Don't mean to be gross but that means they dig poop out of their anus. She didn't go into any details but I think maybe at night they do that. That would explain your Dad's fingernails.

No, that's no excuse for the staff not to clean the sheets and your dad's fingernails. But I think this may become an ongoing situation with your dad.

I was disappointed at times with the cleanliness of my mom's room when I visited and noticed times when her call button wasn't even hooked up properly. Things like that. But overall they were nice to my mom and from what I could see they were understaffed and overworked.

I would just keep making note of these things with your dad and maybe ask if they think your dad is doing this digging thing that I mentioned.

You sound like a great daughter and are doing the best you can.
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AL level of care is supposed to be for those who can advocate for themselves and only need minimal assistance with their ADLs, I agree with Sandra that someone who is not only incontinent but doesn't notice or care about these lapses in hygiene probably is beyond the level of care most of these places will provide. Unfortunately many people put off going to higher levels of care due to the cost or because it's difficult to find space in a good facility, and of course even then there's no guarantee you will see an improvement.
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I’m sorry you experienced this with dad. I’m not excusing what you saw, but from your description of dad both here and on your profile I don’t think he’s in the right place in terms of care. The director should be admitting this to you. With all the add on extras there’s likely a more appropriate setting that would include those and be better for dad
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As a former director myself. The staff should be noticing these things, however depending on the schedule for care, say for instance it's a resident who only gets showers 1-2x a week and no other care services I could totally see it being an oversight because the staff is not as closely involved.
But if your dad is getting dressed by staff every morning and helping with ADLs then I would see it as neglect which may or may not be intentional. I would also like to ask if your dad has cognitive issues, does he have difficulty being able to ask for help or know when he needs the help? We have had many residents who need the physical help but were cognitively intact to be able to speak for their own needs. If he has impairments that prevent him from speaking up for himself, I would take this matter to the executive director and ask for a meeting with both the nursing director and the executive director. Explain the situation and see if they can add to his careplam to do checks on his nails.
Whenever we had specific issues I would add that to the careplan and audit my staff.
If after meeting with both directors, I would monitor the situation and see if it occurs again. There are agencies to report concerns to as well if you continue to see staff neglecting his care and management isn't making g sure these tasks are followed through
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Kathyintex Jul 9, 2026
Thank you for your very thoughtful and informative response! Dad has not been ‘officially diagnosed’ by a neurologist; once in rehab two years ago I received a call from the facility doctor on call who told me he wanted to prescribe something ‘for moderate dementia’ and I told him no one had said he had dementia. Turns out the drug was basically something to keep Dad pliable, not really for dementia and Dad is very calm 24/7 - he just didn’t want to do his rehab exercises. He never did take the meds. But in answer to your question, Dad has severe hearing loss (years on the flight line in the Air Force), macular degeneration and over the last couple of years has lost his ability to get his thoughts from his mind to his mouth, starts well then can’t find the correct word and gives up. So, multiple issues. I have a meeting set up to discuss care plan additions.
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Since he is being helped to dress, have it put in his orders that his nails are to be brushed each morning and night, along with his daily hygiene. The fact that it was missed indicates it’s not being checked on. Especially since it was on his bedsheets and hands. He may have gotten it from trying to clean himself up. Make sure he has a nail brush in his bathroom. Be sure to follow up with them. They will soon know what is going on. They “dig” when they itch. Possibly from not being cleaned properly. Or when they have long had to assist themselves having a bm. Or other gastro issues. Not something every dad would share with his daughter.

If he has loose bowels check his diet. Either way, may need more fiber. All it takes is a small tsp to start of fiber stirred in his coffee or water or tea. Has he had a recent need for antibiotics? Is he lactose intolerant? If this is unusual for him, look for the reason it is happening, especially if it happens again. The food served is not always the healthiest so things happen to sensitive stomachs.

Your reaction of tears is perhaps extreme but I understand the feeling. Sometimes it’s all just too much.
Make sure he is getting the help he is contracted for. Hopefully this was a one off. No place is perfect but some caregivers are more observant than others. If it was part of their routine they would have noticed it right away. Personally I would send a note to the one who went and checked and didn’t follow up with you. Obviously after she spoke with the aides she didn’t follow up to see that they corrected their mistake. Now you know you can’t trust her to follow up. So you are doing your job as his advocate to check that they do their job. Neglect is a loaded word but you are NOT expecting too much. I probably put up with too much but each aide got several lessons from me when I found issues. If I went too far over their head, by the time it filtered down to the ones who touched my LO, much can be lost. That’s when I learned putting it in the chart was helpful and personal follow-up also needed. I was once told that it was in the chart but the aides weren’t reading the chart like it wasn’t their supervisors job to make sure they did. yeah, it can make you want to cry.
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Kathyintex Jul 9, 2026
Thank you for taking the time to read the post and make valid points ~ yes, care plan additions are necessary!
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According to your profile info, dad suffers from dementia. Is he living in Memory Care Assisted Living or just regular Assisted Living? It's an important question because regular AL is not the right place for him, he needs Memory Care. The staff in MC tend to go to much greater lengths to care for the dementia residents than the more independent residents who live in regular AL. Dementia residents tend to play with their feces many times, and create situations that seem terribly offensive to regular AL residents or those who don't understand the nature of a broken mind. They will often urinate in the dining room, or defecate on an upholstered chair in a public room because they simply do not follow normal protocols anymore. They live in their own world.

If dad lives in Memory Care, you need to have a Come To Jesus meeting with the Executive Director imo. And a care conference monthly where you can be updated about your concerns.

Best of luck to you and I'm so sorry for your situation.
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Kathyintex Jul 9, 2026
You always provide such good responses and suggestions. Yes, we are in discussions for MC at this point. He has exhibited exit seeking behaviors a few times and we are looking at the secure environment for safety reasons, but have honestly thought that AL was where he needed to be… there are close to 40 residents in this ALF and I would say that most of them are in worse shape mentally than he is; i.e., “why am I here” - “what time is it (every 10 minutes)” - “where do I go now?” - “where do I live?” - “who are all these people?”, etc. Dad is respectful, quiet, sleeps by the fireplace and knows where his apartment is and how to get there. But, yes experiences (as I was told during a care meeting) ‘occasional’ incontinence.
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When my mom was in assisted living I found her in somewhat of similar circumstances while she was sitting in the common room watching tv. I saw she had fecal matter on her clothes and hands. I took her to her room to clean her and on the way mentioned to a caregiver what I had found. In her room I found the same as Kathy found with her father. I cleaned it all up myself, rather than wait for someone to have time. It was an isolated incident at that time and I didn't go any further with it until a couple weeks later when they reported to me that my mom had used a waste basket as a toilet. I then started looking into memory care for her. A few other incidents happened before I could get her moved. It was covid time then. They were much quicker in memory care to take care of such things and I only had to help my mom for a few minutes one time in a similar incident there. They rushed right in and took over the job. It is really worth the extra expense to get memory care if they have dementia.
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Kathyintex Jul 9, 2026
Thank you, yes, we are working on transitioning to memory care in the near future. Other than Dad’s ‘anomic aphasia’ he is pretty sharp. Mostly choosing not to speak because he can’t find the right word and doesn’t want to appear he needs to go ‘upstairs’ (memory care floor)! We will do a few words from a crossword puzzle and I’m often amazed that he says the correct word, or even a rare synonym for the word. Thanks again for your response…
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First, let me say that I am so blessed to be a part of this website and the forum ~ i posted my question then left home to attend a community meeting. Upon returning home I found so many very helpful suggestions and many more questions, which are valid and that I will address tomorrow. Thank you again…
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This isn't neglect, this is Assisted Living. Your dad didn't notice or didn't care about the mess, and therefore didn't ask for help. In AL you really need to be cognitively able to ask for help.

I had a similar incident when my mom was in rehab! I swear that sometimes aides just ignore things they don't want to deal with. In my mom's case, her pillow case was missing, which was a clue. I found several obvious smears on her bedding and the backside of that naked pillow. She obviously made a little effort to take care of it herself or was embarrassed, which didn't help. She should have asked for help but didn't. Aide on duty was horrified when I call them to the room and showed it to him. She was in a chair at the time, but YUCK!

Before we got her daily diarrhea under control, she would try to clean up, but it was never fun to find a shoe with dried, crusty poop on it these last few years.

Things like this are a clue that your dad needs a higher level of care.
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Sandra2424 Jul 9, 2026
Excellent answer. He needs more personalized care than they can give at the AL level.
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I agree with others he may need a higher level of care. Here’s Something else to consider, instead of once a month spa day, consider having a private caregiver, the same person, he can get to know, come for 3-4 hours 3 days a week. 10- 12 hours a week, every week, for a paid caregiver to do what you are doing on those days. Caregiver can Order supplies, pick up a grocery order that you placed and restock his room, tidy his room, change sheets, get clothes in order, help him shower so you know he is showered those days, clean and trim his nails and toes and teeth and sort his clothes and do laundry or put away clean laundry. Visit with him while doing all this so you don’t have to go that day. You stop by twice then once a week. It may buy you some time at the ALF with additional expenses for this extra caregiver while you decide what is next. It may extend his stay in AL for a while. The staff at ALF may do less and only the services you are paying extra for once they see a private caregiver. But, sounds like they are doing that anyway.
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Kathyintex Jul 9, 2026
Yes, caregivers ARE doing less than normal - the facility changed ownership and we have LOTS of new CGs and IMHO some of them are not as caring as previous care givers. A lot of wandering around acting busy, but not really.
The increase for MC is almost $1500 more per month, I hadn’t thought that maybe that could be spent on a private caregiver with attention to him only ~ thank you!
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Beedevil66 Jul 9, 2026
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My mom is in memory care, but is one of the higher functioning residents. One day I went into her bathroom and found the toilet seat was covered in poop and smelled terrible. Mom said she had been having diarrhea for a couple days. If I had not seen how clean they had kept the toilet for over 2 years I would have thought it was neglect.

As for nails, mom does not seem to have anything under hers, but I doubt they ever wash her hands other than her two shower days a week. I have not asked, but she said she has everything she needs to clean her hands, so they probably don't bother to ask her. I took a nice scented soap for her bathroom and it looks like it rarely gets used. She said she would rather use wipes, which she keeps in her drawer, but I've only seen her use them once. I don't know the usual process for hand washing in MC centers across the US, but since most other things are running smoothly I'm not going to complain.
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If this is recurring then your father needs a higher level of care. Assisted living can not be expected to keep your father's hands out of fecal matter.
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Beedevil66 10 hours ago
What if it was due to diarrhea or not clean/wiping well?
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That is irresponsible conduct. I would recommend finding alternative care for him and reporting the business to the Department of Aging. If they are not fulfilling their responsibilities regarding your father, it is likely they are neglecting other residents as well.
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Sandra2424 8 hours ago
If he is beyond the level of care he can receive in AL (which is pretty obvious) it is the AL's RESPONSIBILITY to inform you that they are not staffed nor licensed to provide the level of care he needs. They are negligent if they continue or are unable to meet needs above the level for which they are licensed. The care required needs to be done in SNF or memory care. They are licensed and staffed to care for someone in your father's condition.
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I am unfamiliar with how much attention and care an Assisted Living facility "should" provide, and I'm under the impression that it varies based on the customized needs of the client (or Resident).

You could talk with a nurse in charge and a director (whatever the title is for the person who is in charge of his care needs) and discuss exactly what the staff should be doing for him. $7,100 / month sounds like a lot to me for assisted living. Maybe it's a really nice place and they should be meeting all his care needs for that price.

"Assisted" Living only provides limited assistance to residents who are fairly independent. I don't think most offer incontinence care, such as changing a poopy diaper in the middle of the night.

It may be time for him to go to a skilled nursing facility. It won't be as nice in accommodations, but the fecal incontinence will be managed routinely.
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Message to Beedevil 66. A person with intact mental status would know enough to ring for help after a bout of diarrhea. They wouldn't be walking around the entire facility with feces on their hands. He does not know how to care for himself anymore and needs closer supervision and more physical help cleaning up.
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I am so sorry you and your dad went through that. No, I do not think you are expecting too much.
Accidents can happen in assisted living, especially with incontinence or toileting issues, but fecal matter on the sheets and under his fingernails should have been noticed and addressed. That is not just a cosmetic issue. It is hygiene, infection control, dignity, and basic care.
Since he is paying for extra ADL help, I would request a formal care-plan meeting immediately with the administrator/director and care staff. I would ask for a written plan that explains:
How often his room and bedding are checked
How often toileting assistance is provided
Who is responsible for hygiene after accidents
Whether his hands and nails are checked after toileting issues
How shift changes are handled so things are not missed
Who will notify you when there is a hygiene or incontinence problem
I would also document everything: dates, times, photos if appropriate, names of staff you spoke with, and what was done afterward.
I would not ignore this. I would give the facility one clear opportunity to correct the problem with a written plan. If it happens again, or if they minimize it, I would contact the long-term care ombudsman and your state licensing agency.
You are not asking for luxury care. You are asking for your father to be clean, safe, and treated with dignity. That is completely reasonable.
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