I have been providing “informal support” for my elderly mother when her paid caregivers can’t or WON’T provide her with the care she needs for a few years now. It has been frustrating at times. I work for a school driving school bus then as a paraprofessional until it’s time to get on the bus for the afternoon route. my day starts at 4 AM and I’m usually not finished with my afternoon bus route until after 5 PM, getting home at 6pm school days. Of course, I have weekends and all school breaks off (unless I agree to drive summer school)
I was recently told by APS that they consider me responsible for her care because I’ve “done so in the past” establishing that I was willing to do it and that “choosing” to not do so nights & weekends / school breaks, since I don’t have to be at work those hours, if the PAID caregiver isn’t available (if I attend my children’s sporting events, want to go out of town for a weekend or take vacation time when my job allows for it) could & likely would result in being charged with neglect or even abandonment. If found “guilty” that would cost me my job because I’d no longer be able to work with children. That I MUST continue providing daily care 365 days a year—no days off, no vacation, no sick days, etc. no ability to relocate if I were to find a house elsewhere where a similar paying job would give my family a better quality of life due to lower cost of living.
I love my mom and honestly don’t mind helping out OCCASIONALLY (I *do* mind doing the work when a PAID caregiver is getting paid to do the job but refuses…doesn’t clean her bedside commode, won’t give her a bath / shower, etc….we’ve reported several instances, in each case they were simply moved to another client, even APS defended their ability to refuse certain tasks on my mom’s care plan because they could hurt themselves….so can I, I’ve hurt my back taking care of my mom several times, only difference is since I’m not officially an employee, I don’t have the ability to use L&I to help with medical bills or lost time from work like paid caregivers could). Can I be held responsible for her care to the point that if I dare to have any personal activities / vacation plans “interfere”, it’s grounds for neglect / abandonment accusations to stick because of me implying “duty of care” so I’m no longer allowed to do anything that takes me away from this unpaid job? I feel like I’d be set up to catch the blame regardless. If I’d just shrugged my shoulders and said “not my problem” when caregivers refused to do their job, I feel someone would have found fault with that; but since my conscience couldn’t allow me to see a need and not meet it, I’m forced into a job that I’m not allowed to quit (IF what APS is telling me is accurate, though my gut says it sounds like them trying scare tactics on me to get me to do the job as I’ve researched the law and can’t find anything backing up these claims but thought I’d ask where I can get answers from someone who knows).
I would ask whoever told you that to put it in writing, on APS letterhead.
Some states have what are called "filial responsibility laws" which are open to interpretation as to the degree of liability one has to FINANCIALLY support an impoverished parent. I have not heard of those laws being used to compel direct service, but you might want to tell your principal what APS is threatening you with. I suspect your school district's lawyer could find out the truth.
Now I can see the part about being relied upon for the care of a vulnerable or helpless person, and then suddenly not showing up without arranging alternative care or advising the authorities of a vulnerable elder. That is bad, but doesn’t seem to be what you’re talking about.
Yes, ask for it in writing, signed and on letter-head. And then say that it’s rubbish, and get in touch with the boss of the person who ‘threatened’ you.
Of course you can change your mind, just like you are actually permitted to die! These ‘neglect and abandonment’ threats are almost never validly based, and even less often put into effect - but they may be offenses in themselves.
In the past year I’ve been investigated for abuse / neglect when my mom’s care wasn’t provided four times. One of which, I can see as justified in making sure it was an accident and not something deliberately done….. I’d driven my mom to a Drs appointment 3 hrs away in her car which has no A/C because she couldn’t get in my car. Temps reached 118* that day. when we got home, I went to get her wheelchair and heard my 10 year old daughter say “wait grandma, you don’t have shoes on”. By the time I dropped the wheelchair and got to her door, she’d already put both bare feet on the hot pavement. I had my daughter call 911 while I tried to pull her back into the SUV, but couldn’t budge 335 lbs of dead weight. By the time the ambulance arrived, she had 2nd & 3rd degree burns on the bottom of her feet. She was also suffering from heat exhaustion. So yeah I can see that be a legitimate concern to be sure wasn’t something I’d intentionally done….I do feel they tried to manipulate my mom into saying anything that could be interpreted as it being my fault it occurred as the investigation involved about 5 visits from APS almost interrogating my mom rephrasing the same questions. The others have all been due to caregivers reporting me for my mom’s depend “being wet“, her wearing the same shirt multiple days (my mom CHOOSES to not change daily due to not being able to afford laundry if she charges daily….. last time I had any type of caregiver training (20-something years ago) she’s of sound mind so has the right to refuse to change clothes, shower, etc and as far as the depend….They’re coming in 3.5 - 5+ hrs after I’ve left for work and she’s completely incontinent…yeah she’s probably wet.
like I said, so far all the investigations have been “inconclusive” but it leaves me scared that with enough investigations they’ll eventually decide I’m at fault.
From Aging Care topics:
“Filial responsibility” laws (also known as filial support laws or filial piety laws) hold that the adult child (or children) of an impoverished parent has the legal obligation to pay for the necessities of the parent who cannot do so for themselves.
If no, disregard.
If yes, note responsibility is to *pay for necessities for an impoverished parent*. (I believe as long as it does not impoverish the adult child).
- This does NOT mean having to be their hands-on help: their chauffeur, cook, maid ++
- It does NOT mean being responsible to be at their beck & call.
- It does NOT mean being responsible to be on call as the understudy to every hired support person who is late/no-show.
Volunteering to be someone's 'informal support' in an ad-hoc way as you are doing is VERY VERY different to volunteering to be someone's full-time caregiver, designated or arranged caregiver. That would be more like 'formal support'.
Unless your Mother is deemed incapable of making decisions for herself & you are named legal Guardian, the responsibility to arrange her support workers & backups is actually HER responsibility.
Now in the real world she may lack the problem solving skill to arrange that.. yes? Which is why you fell into the role... yes?
This is the difference between someone who is *independent* & someone who is living alone, but no longer truly independent.
PS? Is Mom living with you? I forgot to ask that. May change the answer...
I agree with Barb, insist on getting it in writing from APS. On letterhead. With a signature. Then find a *criminal* attorney (since APS is threatening you with possible criminal charges) and make an appointment and ask him/her if what APS has written is correct. I'm going to bet it's a big fat no. If that's the case, pay whatever fee is involved and have the attorney send a letter to APS telling them to cease this harassment of you or face a possible lawsuit.
What if you didn't live near mom? What if you were a single mom with small children you had to take care of? What if you needed to work several jobs to make ends meet? What if you yourself got sick and could no longer give mom the additional support? These are all real-life scenarios. Does APS threaten all of them too?
Just wondering how APS got involved in the first place? It's not like they monitor every elderly person in their jurisdiction, usually they get involved because they've been notified that there might be a vulnerable elder.
If mom has *paid* caregivers who aren't doing their jobs taking care of her, let APS go after them or the agency who oversees them. Sounds to me like whoever you spoke to doesn't want to do anything more than the bare minimum, and you seemed to be the "easy" target.
I had a coworker suggest getting a lawyer…..at least know if there’s any truth to their claims (which my gut feels there isn’t) and if I felt possible, take them to court for harassment.
In the past year I’ve been investigated for abuse / neglect when my mom’s care wasn’t provided four times. One of which, I can see as justified in making sure it was an accident and not something deliberately done….. I’d driven my mom to a Drs appointment 3 hrs away in her car which has no A/C because she couldn’t get in my car. Temps reached 118* that day. when we got home, I went to get her wheelchair and heard my 10 year old daughter say “wait grandma, you don’t have shoes on”. By the time I dropped the wheelchair and got to her door, she’d already put both bare feet on the hot pavement. I had my daughter call 911 while I tried to pull her back into the SUV, but couldn’t budge 335 lbs of dead weight. By the time the ambulance arrived, she had 2nd & 3rd degree burns on the bottom of her feet. She was also suffering from heat exhaustion. So yeah I can see that be a legitimate concern to be sure wasn’t something I’d intentionally done….I do feel they tried to manipulate my mom into saying anything that could be interpreted as it being my fault it occurred as the investigation involved about 5 visits from APS almost interrogating my mom rephrasing the same questions. The others have all been due to caregivers reporting me for my mom’s depend “being wet“, her wearing the same shirt multiple days (my mom CHOOSES to not change daily due to not being able to afford laundry if she charges daily….. last time I had any type of caregiver training (20-something years ago) she’s of sound mind so has the right to refuse to change clothes, shower, etc and as far as the depend….They’re coming in 3.5 - 5+ hrs after I’ve left for work and she’s completely incontinent…yeah she’s probably wet.
like I said, so far all the investigations have been “inconclusive” but it leaves me scared that with enough investigations they’ll eventually decide I’m at fault. So having a lawyer tell them to quit with the harassment sounds like a good idea (as far as I know, the paid caregivers never deal with this when they choose to not do their job…. Even when we’ve reported it, APS actually defends them saying they could get hurt…. So can I. I’ve hurt my back several times taking care of my mom, only difference is since I’m not an employee I have no L&I to help pay medical bills or lost wages)
You would, if you are the appointed guardian or if you are POA be responsible for safe placement. This would mean applying for medicaid if Mom has no assets, or managing her assets for her care until they run out, and getting her safely placed.
The APS may consider you responsible but they have ZERO ability to enforce such a belief on their part, except to turn you over to legal authorities that DO have. No, no one will take you to court or ruin your job UNLESS you have taken on legal responsibility with accepting appointment as POA or Guardian.
If you have taken your Mom into your home you need to see now to her placement, and help her, if she has become dependent in the time she has lived with you, in applying for legal aid through medicaid (APS can and SHOULD help you with THAT; that should be their mandate, not idle threats).
I hope you will update us.
You should also, if you wish, see an elder law attorney for your duties, your obligations, legal advice, and an answer for APS. If you are POA you Mom's funds pay for your legal advice. If you are not you will pay for this yourself, and as attorneys are expensive you need to find a good and honest one who is paid by the HOUR to answer some few questions for you, not an attorney who wants a huge upfront fee and then says they will have to charge more to research. Any attorney worth his or her salt can find the answer to this in moments.
When some "authority" tells me I have no choice, I respond with, "Show me the statute(s)".
If your mom needs so much help, it is time for her to go into a facility, not hijack you and your family's life to prop her up.
I think threatening family is part of the training for social workers. It bogus but, oh ever so effective.
No, you do not have to be an unpaid slave because APS threatened you. I would tell her that you won't speak with her unless she stops with the threats and intimidation, which is illegal.
While I think APS is being a little heavy handed, I also think OP might be in a bit of denial about her mom's cognitive abilities. Much as it pains me, APS might have some reasons to think OP's mom isn't getting the safest care she could be.
Oh H3!! yes you could be charged. You live in her home and have for quite some time. You are abandoning her if you just move out without ensuring that she has the level of care required.
Informal care my eye, you moved in to provide care for her, unpaid, yes, informal NO!
So? How many family members moved in with you and do any of you pay any of the expenses? If not, you actually have been paid through mom supporting you all.
and where do you get that my mom “supports” me and my child? I actually pay the FULL rent and utilities and the majority of the food on the apartment
to say that because I decided to help temporarily without any pay I’m not able to ever stop but people who applied for the job and decided it wasn’t what they want to do makes me think two possibilities about you…you are a paid caregiver who would sit on your butt expecting me to do your job but you get the paycheck or you work for APS and are trying to back them up. The comment made that I could be held responsible if I were to just walk out / go out of town without at least notify her case manager makes sense, but it shouldn’t be me needing their permission, it should be “after this date I won’t be available so my mom will need a caregiver or other arrangements” and it be their job to provide such.
by the way according to APS, even if I lived across town and had helped occasionally, I’d NEVER be allowed to do anything that made me unavailable to continue providing care. It was mentioned if a neighbor brought over dinner a few times they’ve established “duty of care” and can’t be out of town and unavailable to continue doing so. Guess that means the fact I’ve given an elderly neighbor a ride to the store a few times means my car is her personal Uber and I have to drop wherever I’m doing anytime she needs a ride somewhere for the rest of her life.
APS isn't requiring her to do 24/7, they are saying she can not just abandon her without getting her the care she needs.
This is what happens when you move into a parents house to provide care and then decide to leave. You can leave but, you have certain responsibilities, that you accepted by moving in. She knew mom needed 24/7 care, that's why she moved in. Now she has to do everything she can to ensure mom is getting the care she needs.
Someone that steps on the hot ground and can't help get themselves off of it, is not of sound mind, by any stretch of the imagination.
She should definitely see a lawyer before she moves out and leaves her mom.
Do you think (looking back) it was a tactic? That the nurse smelt caregiver burnout wafting off you & wanted to wake you up before you burnt to death? *Tough Love* To get a better care plan for your Dad + restore some sort of balance to you before you stroked out yourself?
Would it bother you if the State became Moms guardian? That means they take over completely even forcing Mom to go to a NH. And neither she nor you would have any say. If you would not feel guilty about this, then tell APS that is what they need to do. You only have so many hours in a day. You need to be able to support you and your daughter. Mom is competent and able to afford the care she needs. Because she is 335# is not your fault. Its your mothers.
If Mom had no children and a neighbor called and reported a vulnerable adult you know what they would do. Come to the house and inspect it. Doesn't have to be spic and span, just liveable. Food in the cupboards and frig, OK. She has aides coming in regularly, great!. She is 335# but seems to get around her house. Seems able to make informed decisions so no Dementia. Has heat, a/c or a fan. Running water. Everything seems OK here. And the APS worker walks out the door.
With all the problems you have with aides, would it not be cheaper to place Mom in an AL. Then you can live your life without APS involved. And why does Mom need to see a Dr 3 hrs away? Sorry, I would not be doing it. Any local transportation she needs, she can use the Senior bus.
I may have Mom evaluated to see what she is capable of. If she can order food to be delivered, toilet herself and give herself a sponge bath, cook even if the microwave, dress herself, etc, and is fully competent, then she can be on her own. Sorry, but she needs to lose that weight. It keeps her from being able to do for herself and that should not be your problem. She doesn't have to starve herself, just needs to cut back and MOVE. Having aides maybe disabling her in some areas.
Maybe a talk with an elder lawyer is needed. I think those filial laws are for monetary not physically caring for someone. And the childs ability to pay is looked at. Their families are not made to suffer to support a parent. With Medicaid and other resources available, these laws are being taken off the books. The only story I have heard that these laws were used, was where a mans mother was visiting from Greece and got sick while here. She ended up in SNH that ended up costing her 70k. Once she was able to, she went back to Greece leaving the bill unpaid. Court said that her son was responsible for the 70k. He was well off.
She is incapable of doing anything herself. She can feed herself (if food is put in front of her and cut up). She cannot stand on her own—we currently use a sit to stand for transfers, A few years ago was much different. If I wanted to go out of town, things needed to be set up for her (mostly pots, pans, utensils & dishes on the kitchen counter so she didn’t have to bend over / reach up to get them out of cupboards), but other than that she could transfer to / from bed, wheelchair, toilet / commode, recliner, etc, cook her own meals & do her own dishes, and put on / take off her own depends. In her mind, she can get back to that point (nobody else believes it). In our rural area, not uncommon for Dr appointments with specialists to be 3 hrs away.
As cold-hearted as it may sound, no it would not bother me if the state took over guardianship and placed her in a NH / AL (not sure if Medicaid would pay for AL, though I think I’ve read of new programs that would pay for it….either way our state has no filial laws so it wouldn’t be my bill to pay). Honestly may be the best place for her with the problems getting and keeping caregivers to come in and actually provide care, and like you said, I’m able to live my life and not worry that any aspect of her care (or lack of it) is going to be my responsibility. And if the state / APS gets a court order to place her in a NH, she can’t get mad at me for doing it.
If APS are so concerned, try a different set of workers and ask them to suggest the best options for you and your mother. Clearly it isn’t all great, and they may have some good ideas. However the ideas CAN’T include taking over your life, and as we all know, they CAN’T be about forcing your mother to give up her own choices if she is still of sound mind. To do that, they would need court-ordered Guardianship.
How old is your mom?
Here is a link that lists government agencies for Washington State. They do have some legal resources listed. I hope one of them will be able to guide you.
https://www.olmsteadrights.org/self-helptools/advocacy-resources/item.6680-Washington_Disability_Resources_and_Advocacy_Organizations
I am sorry your family is having such a difficult time.
You say:
"My mom is 78.
She is incapable of doing anything herself. She can feed herself (if food is put in front of her and cut up). She cannot stand on her own—we currently use a sit to stand for transfers, A few years ago was much different. If I wanted to go out of town, things needed to be set up for her (mostly pots, pans, utensils & dishes on the kitchen counter so she didn’t have to bend over / reach up to get them out of cupboards), but other than that she could transfer to / from bed, wheelchair, toilet / commode, recliner, etc, cook her own meals & do her own dishes, and put on / take off her own depends. In her mind, she can get back to that point (nobody else believes it). In our rural area, not uncommon for Dr appointments with specialists to be 3 hrs away."
And in regards to your mom's caregivers:
"They’re coming in 3.5 - 5+ hrs after I’ve left for work and she’s completely incontinent…yeah she’s probably wet."
Can you really *not* see that your mom can't be left alone? That it is a dangerous situation? I can't blame her caregivers for reporting a person for whom they are responsible to APS in this situation, if only to protect themselves! This has nothing to do with a "wet depends", or the caregivers not wanting to do their jobs, this is a dangerous situation for your mom!
You need to reach out to APS and tell them you need help getting mom into a facility where her needs can be met! It's very clear you have little interest in being mom's caregiver during the times that she has no paid help, and THAT'S FINE! You have a child and a job and a life and you aren't willing to sacrifice any of those things to be mom's caregiver and THAT'S FINE! It doesn't make you a bad daughter, but you need to OWN it that you don't want to be mom's caregiver and reach out for help before a tragedy occurs! Get her placed somewhere that she can get the care she needs, and be her advocate while she lives there, but b****ing about how unfairly you feel APS is treating you, how you feel they are persecuting you for no good reason you is, frankly, you just burying your head in the sand and insisting all is well when clearly it is not!
I sincerely wish you well with this.
You moved in to help, to offer some 'informal support'. Good intentions. but...
Find yourself in hot water now. (Like my often referred to tale of the frog in the slowly heating pot).
Since you ARE living with Mom, your help has morphed from 'informal' to Live-in Support.
The option of simply moving out is not simple as Mom is now dependant on you. I now see how APS could view this..
Somehow you need to get Mom into care, into some sort of emergency, respite care or yes, even consider the 'Granny Dump' at the hospital.
Then you can figure out the next steps. Because if Mom cannot care for herself, cannot run her household of caregiver staff, she WILL need to move.
Have a different talk to them about new arrangements for your mother. They should be able to help you find something affordable and suitable. Then you can go back to being a daughter to your mother, and a mother to your own daughter. That’s different from thinking that they are criticising you when you are doing your best!