Am I my sister's keeper?

No

I know you meant to be helpful to your sister, but you are now seeing what a difficult situation it is.  If she is unwilling to move to a town where resources are easy to get to or unwilling to move closer to family members who could help, then what is the solution?  I am willing to bet her children have already been down this road with her and the nursing home was the only solution.  Now you have removed the nursing home from the equation and there is no fix other than one of you giving up your entire life to take care of her.  You are unwilling to do it and her children are unwilling to do it.  That is great that you were able to get her off of a medication that clouded her mind, but now what?  The situation is deeper than that.

If one of my aunts or uncles were to take my mom out of memory care, I would tell them they have just inherited all that comes with that decision.

Oh that us a hard one. My bf sister took her mom out of a nursing home and the contract signed stated the person in whose custody she was now in was responsible for her health finances and welfare having taken over for the nursing home she had been in. My ex bf did not pay a thing or help in any way because his mom had threatened to kill him several times and wanted to stay away from her. Dementia takes over and you never know what is going to happen. Mom even called the police on him. I think although legally he did not have to take any responsibility for mom, morally I felt he should have at least helped with her expenses. But no one could force him. They should have written another contract for moms care, voiding the first. I am so sorry. But we live in CA so maybe the laws in your state are different.

I hope this goes where everyone can see it. Im not sure if it does. Been extremely busy the last few days and couldn't answer everyone. I apologize for not getting here sooner.

My sister is 20 years my senior. I am married to a man who also is 20 years my senior. He is, due to an accident in August, temporarily disabled, so I am taking care of him as well as my sister.

I was raised with my sister's sons. They were never mean spirited until after we all became adults and I have no clue what turned them this way. No, it was not from long term care of their mother, as 3 of the 4 of them barely darken her doorstep except on holidays.

They do not take her shopping, rarely out to eat, zero doctor's appointments. They just do not want to be bothered with her.

My sister has a dog as her only companion. If it were not for her dog, she would have no one. She lives in a town where there are roughly 500 folks when everyone is home. No stores in her immediate town.

She can do things now for herself, but due to macular degeneration that may change. Should that happen she says she will go back to the nursing home, but is fearful of what will happen to her dog.

There is no IL in her county, and she adamantly refuses to move from her apartment to be closer here. Likewise, I will absolutely NOT move to her area and living together is impossible. We love each other, but sometimes we don't like each other.

I feel sad for her, but she will only go to her apartment and no, I will not become a POA for her.

I want to distance myself from the situation, but I just wanted to get opinions on my legal issues with this.

Her children are not in charge of her finances, and even if they were, there is no money to gain. My sister is very poor and lives in low income housing.

Abyway, I'll try to check back soon, but an extremely busy 6 days coming up for me, so please excuse me if I don't answer right away.

Thank you all for your time and kind words of encouragement. I can use them for sure and for certain!

I agree that you need to allow your sister to go home but I would stay in touch with your sister to make sure that she gets the care that she needs.
It seems that your sister doesn’t have anyone that loves or cares for her and that can be scary and depressing.
I think you should treat your sister the same way that she would assist you. You never know when you might need assistance

Valcra, I found in your reply further down;

"I won't be able to visit. She lives 5-1/2 hours away from me and she doesn't want to live closer". 

That is sad. I had been wondering about suggesting she move to an IL place nearer you. I mean, does it HAVE to be her current place? Or would moving into another place, with her own things, give her the independence she wants back? You are so supportive of her. Makes good sense to me to live nearer you.

Many many people want to leave SNFs. Wanting to & being *able* to are different things of course...

I know her Docs cleared her judgement but do you think she will be safe & be able to cope living alone? What's your gut feeling?

Imho, it begs the question if "her children are very uncaring," then that seems to be a contradiction of "no longer helping her." Something seems amiss.

My worry in this situation is the need for a longer-term plan. Will your sister eventually need more care and help? Very likely, if she lives long enough. Can you be forced to provide it? No, but if you care for your sister you should help her find a plan B other than turning to her kids for the next medical crisis. Since she lives so far away I would encourage you both to look for a Geriatric Care Manager in the area she lives. They can work with her to know long-term options. They can also take on the role of a POA/Guardian if she needs one and doesn't want her children to make decisions. The key is to make these arrangements now, while she is medically clear and able to make them. There will be a cost involved but she will have to weigh that cost with her desire not to end up right back in the nursing home the next time she has a medical issue.

Im not sure legally you are responsible. I will say that as long as she lives with you then you. Are responsible. Legally I would say her POA is responsible. That is my opinion I am not a lawyer. Her children in putting her in a NH and not bieving the doctors the. They are not loving their mom and only looking for what is in it for me. Since she is perfectly able to live on her own then she should .

I regret I do not have time to read responses so I may be repeating what others already wrote:
I am not clear on what you feel you are responsible for ? Did you take her OUT of a medical facility? She must have signed herself out if so - not you.

1) Talk to an attorney (elder care)
2) Get all MD 'clearance' in writing - although 'cleared for what?'
3) Who is the POA / guardian? Do you want this responsibility?
4) Have a conference call with attorney and her children.
5) Is your sister of 'sound mind' to make decision on her own?

It sounds like children are saying that they will not support / help her and by DEFAULT, it is up to you.

".. her children are just very uncaring." Mm. That's - quite unusual.

Then, going back to your opening remarks: "My sister called from a nursing home where she was placed due to seemingly losing her mind. As it turns out, this was due to a medication she has been on for 12 years, lorazepam.

She wanted to go home, but her children said no, she could not and if she did, they would no longer help her."

Would *no longer* help her. And, so, how long were they helping her; and what did they go through in those years; and meanwhile? or before then? her husband died - of what?

It may be they are now very uncaring and ready to wash their hands of her, but I - if you'll forgive me - doubt if there is any "just" about it. Isn't it possible that anger and/or compassion fatigure figure quite large in their attitude?

What was she like before she became addicted to Lorazepam? What sort of personality can we hope will now re-emerge?

Still it remains - you are not your sister's keeper and your niece and nephew's grim warnings express nothing more than frustration.

Just adding to what others here have already said quite eloquently..... If the doctors are declaring that her confused state of mind was due to medications which have now been modified and she is competent..... she is free to go on her way and live wherever she likes. You are not legally responsible for her for her now or in the future unless you step in to help her out again. Personally, as hard as it may be.... I'd try not to do that. the entire family relationship sounds rather toxic (those children sound awful.... regardless to what may have been in their past). Time for you to sail forth in your own ship. Congratulations for stepping us when your sister needed you though.
Peace and hugs!

You will not be responsible. Help her regain control of her finances (which are probably controlled now by her disappointing kids.

I just wanted to add my praise - you saved her!

Great job! You made my day!

IF the doctors deem her mentally competent, she can do what she wants. If the medication was making her confused and incompetent there is a potential lawsuit due to patient abuse keeping her incarcerated. Medication is not supposed to make a person incompetent and is a form of patient abuse when it does HARM. She should be seeing an attorney about this; if she is on Medicaid, she can get legal aid. Ativan is also highly addictive and the doctors can get sued for this as well.

If she is mentally competent and you hold her in a nursing home against her will, this is known as false imprisonment which is illegal.

If her children want to abandon your sister, that is on their heads. Not yours. Your sister, whom you say was deemed competent by doctors, has the right to live her own life.

Do you think that your sister will need help if she is living on her own? Her POA should be the one to be talking with her about her wishes, and what can be done for her wellbeing. If her POA is one of the uncooperative children, then your sister should consider changing her POA. Is the home her home? Are the children living there now? Would she have to evict them or come to an agreement if she moves back? Would it be a hostile environment if they are still there? I'd advise her getting an attorney to help with these things. Is her mental state good enough to take care of these legal matters? Would you want to be her POA, if asked? You can help her get set up as her sister. Would she need to hire aides to help with her medications and people to help clean, etc.? And remember that as people age they often need more care and assistance.

I would say no. She wanted to leave the Nursing Home and you did what was asked if you.

You now have both her Dr's saying she is fine to live on her own.

Her Children are not very nice.

Her Children should go experience living in a Nursing Home. It's not a very pleasant place to live.

I'm sure your sister will do just fine as long as she remembers it's better the least amount of meds you can take because there are always side effects and most the time they outlay the benefits.

Im glad you helped your sister and one day you may just need her to return the favor.

Prayers

I

3 things:

1-Have her children threatened you physically? If so, this should be documented with the authorities.

2-Your sister wants to go home in part because of her children. If they refuse to accept her home, she may become despondent again. Have that discussion with her and make a plan.

3-I come from a small town. Sounds like she does too. Few resources and doctors. I hope she can rely on her new doctor. She will eventually have a UTI or something that alters her mentally. She needs a geriatrician not a pill pusher.

Good luck.

No, if her doctors cleared her to live on her own, she is responsible for her life - not you. It was really kind of you to take her into your home while she recovered.

I don't know the opportunities in your area or your sister's age, but you sister might consider getting an apartment in Independent Living (IL). She will be responsible for herself, but if she needs some assistance, it will be close at hand. In addition she would have neighbors of similar ages and activities. When my parents entered IL they also bought a meal plan that provided one hot meal for the day. When dad gave up driving they were shuttled to the grocery store and doctors appointments. They were in a Continuing Care Community so when dad kept falling my parents moved to the next level Assisted Living (AL). Dad later had to move to the Long Term Care. It was convenient because mom could pop in to see him once or twice a day.

Just a thought - might make everyone happy, you, your sister and her children. Good Luck.

No - you aren't any more responsible for her now than you were prior to all this happening. Dr cleared her so there's no reason she can't go back home (if it's still available). Assuming she doesn't need any help now.

Let her go home. The kids have told her they won't help her, so if you already know she needs help doing something - help her come up with a plan that doesnt involve her kids. Good luck to her.

Edit - If you're alone and so is she - y'all might want to consider living together to split the bills. Would have more money between the two of you to take trips or have a little fun.

No, you can't.

Your sister's doctor and psychiatrist have cleared your sister to live on her own in her home. Your sister is now officially a competent adult, able to make her own decisions. You not only are not responsible for her, you have no right to prevent her - and neither has anybody else.

Do you understand why the children have such serious reservations? What's the history that might make them so chary about all this?

As far as being her "keeper", no, not really. Hopefully she doesn't live too far away, so you can at least maintain contact and observe. As others suggested, perhaps having her appoint you as POA would be a good idea. It does NOT mean you are stepping in now to manage things, nor does it mean you are responsible for her care or to pay her bills. It only allows you to oversee her finances and medical care IF it does become needed. Having that in place is easier and less expensive that having to get guardianship. EVERYONE should have someone appointed as POA, with clear instructions as to when that become active.

Hopefully she will be fine going forward and you only have to keep a light touch on keeping tabs on her. If all goes well, you'll just be a caring sister.

"...will be on medicines that are for her blood pressure, osteoporosis, and supplements."
Although it is nice that pharmacies provide those blister packs, they are more expensive. The same results could be had by using a timed/locked dispenser. This would only work if you live close enough to fill or oversee her fill the dispenser. Aides generally are not allowed to dispense or handle medications. These dispensers are very helpful, and ensures she doesn't take too much AND allows you to know if she missed any doses (only the current medication is available - if not taken, it will remain unavailable in the dispenser after that time slot is done.) As a side note, beware those osteoporosis meds too! They wanted me to take them, and after some research, nope. They are another medication that are NOT recommended for long term use.

"Now they literally hate me for it and could seek revenge for it."
Let them hate all they want. It doesn't hurt you, and if they keep it up, it will impact THEM! It is sad that they could do this to their mother, esp since she's been cleared (also hoping you heard this from the docs yourself, not just sister telling you.) If they harass your sister, either by phone or in person, change her phone number, make it unlisted and if need be, help her get a restraining order. Hopefully they will keep their word and just butt out.

"I just want to be sure legally I'm safe."
They've revoked their POA. They state they want no responsibility. What could they possibly do legally, other than take guardianship and attempt to ship her off again? That costs money AND if she doesn't test incompetent, they'd be out the money and not gain guardianship. No one can just "get" guardianship. The court has to deem the person incompetent first. Even with dementia, the court will try to ensure the person has as much autonomy as possible, so may only allow limited guardianship, if any at all.

Along with the last paragraph, if docs have deemed her competent and capable of self-care, SHE is responsible for herself going forward, not you. As a concerned sister, I would still keep an eye out for her, to be sure all is good AND the nasty kids stay away. Visit maybe once/week initially, just to check on her, ensure she's eating and drinking properly and generally doing well. After a few weeks, you can probably cut back, maybe just touching base by phone.

It is sad to hear her kids would be like that. No way for us to know what went on during those 12 years. The time I called my mother and then stopped in on my way to work because she seemed "out of it", I took her to the ER and her electrolytes were off (mostly potassium) resulting in confusion. Once IV was done, she was back to her normal, sometimes nasty, self! Even with dementia, I tried to keep her in her own place longer by hiring aides 1hr/day, with intent to increase as needed. She refused to let them in, so we DID have to move her, for her own safety. The agency did testing and needs assessment before sending aides, so they confirmed the dementia. It wasn't due to overmedicating! She was moved to a very nice MC place and I visited often and managed her medical and financial needs.

Lorazepam isn't given for twelve years for no reason. Possible reasons include bipolar disorder and treatment of seizures related to alcohol withdrawal. That combined with the fact that her adult offspring are telling you they refuse to take responsibility for her if she's off her meds and free to do as she pleases should tell you that her history with them includes a lot of heartache and pain. Perhaps you'd be better off actually asking them what their concerns are, rather than writing them off as jerks.

Seems to me you have made sure sister has all her ducks in a row. Also, that you didn't "come and get her" until her doctors felt she was OK. You may want to tell that nephew that a POA does not mean that he can make decisions for Mom when she is perfectly able to make her own. If he hasn't stepped down, then she needs to revoke it.

No, you cannot be held responsible. A Psychiatrist has released her and said she can be in her own. Looks like you will be overseeing her. Making sure she is OK. If she doesn't have a big estate, you may consider being her POA. It doesn't mean u need to physically take care of her. Its a tool to help her. Better than those selfish kids having a say. You saw how that went. The POA helps when she can't pay bills any longer. Speaking with her doctors. Does not make you financially responsible.

i see both sides of this. Our family for several years attempted to be there for hubby's sister. First through a divorce and then issues related to a head injury. We also wanted to be there for her two sons. Eventually we had to remove ourselves for our own well being and that of our own son. Fast forward 20 years and her younger son has finally broken free and moved away from the toxic situation. We have established a relationship with him and he is working to rebuild one with other family members. Unfortunately her older son (now in his 30's) has been unable to break he hold and has not made the best choices for his own life path. We all feel she will not get the help she needs until she is forced to and her son is helping her mask what her issues are. Younger son still loves and cares for his brother and mother but now that he has been out of the home for about 18 months he is seeing that he cannot go back and agrees that mother needs more help that they can give her.

If your sister is now at a point with her medication changes that she can be on her own that is great news. Hopefully once she proves herself her sons will be able to have a chance at an adult (non-caregiver) relationship with her.

Valcra, if sister's doctors say she is cleared to go home (and yes, I would confirm that the docs are actually saying that) the question is then "how much support does she need there?"

Can your sister request an evauation of her ability to care for herself INDEPENDENTLY and an evaluation of her home (grab bars and the like)?

Does your sister have a plan for how she will keep herself fed, clean and properly dressed?

Can she get groceries? Can she manage her own medications? How about home maintenance and cleaning? Asking her about these isssues may give you valuable insight into her ability to plan her future. If she says "oh, you will take care if that" or "the kids can take care of my meds" then you have a clue that she isn't thinking realistically.

I think that I would want to know how and why she came to be taking Ativan in the first place and who was prescribing toxic doses. If she is suffering from anxiety and that issue is not addressed, she will go down the same path.

A lot of adult kids here find that the ONLY control they have over not getting sucked into providing full time hands on care for their parents is to step away and stop propping up an elder who is putting up a charade of independence.

I had to threaten to do this with my own mom, so I know whereof I speak.

Your updates paint a picture of a toxic family relationship and I doubt that happened overnight, I think that it is in your best interest to step away from this as much as possible. Once your sister leaves your home try to leave the caregiver role behind, stepping into the middle of this mess will only cause you continuing grief.

I agree. Let sister go home to try. She is now deemed competent by her Doctors to make her own decisions.

This would be the *least restrictive practice*. This term is used by Social Workers & explained on the Gov Health social services webpage in my state as:
"Work with the older person and their family and carers to promote dignity of risk and trial least restrictive alternatives".

If she does have trouble being independent, point her back towards her Doctor for a Social Worker referral or Area of Aging to assist with home services.

A possible danger would be if sister wants the OP to 'take over' everything she cannot manage OR if the OP had that helping 'taking over' nature. That could lead down a slippery slope...

It's possible her son's found themselves heading down that slope ?? so have had to use some real 'tough love' approaches.

But with an independent spirit & new clarity hopefully the sister will thrive back in her home ☺️

Valcra, it is possible that you are wrong in thinking that your nephews took ‘the easy way out’ to ‘discard their elderly mother’. If you start from that point of view, it isn’t likely that you can have a good co-operative talk with them about their mother’s needs, and the best options for her as your sister. Try to look behind your own best guesses, for the sake of everyone involved. These situation are hard for everyone, and blame makes most things even harder. Be kind! None of us are likely to be 100% right.

You can not be held liable for your sister's decisions. She is responsible for her decisions. If she becomes a threat to herself or others, call Adult Protective Services or the police..

NotGoodEnough mentions the possibility of you being sued. I can’t think of anything a legal case could be made out for, let alone be successful, so don’t worry too much about that one. The last two posts are well worth thinking through, although you seem pretty sure of your facts.

Look on the bright side with her children. They had years and years of believing that she had ‘lost her mind’, and really needed institutional care. They may have had to organise it themselves, and found it really difficult. If your sister goes ahead with this and it is successful, the children may come around. Don’t back yourselves into a corner of writing them off permanently. Just do the best you both can now.