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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Get professional advice. I'm not sure if you mean your mom "qualified" for Meidcaid-MediCal or she was approved and accepted into an AL. Debt is very tricky. There are several current articles on the Internet about dying in debt, seniors in debt and so on. My mom was exploited by my only sibling and left impoverished. He also reactivated old credit card debt and charged thousands of dollars. I was able to get the banks to hold my brother responsible, but my point to you is this- Citibank is relentless and most banks are and will use many techniques to wear you down. If you are a co-signer, then you are responsible. You can look online for grants for impoverished seniors for help with credit card debt. Call your local Council on Aging and ask them if they know of programs. You can call debt consolidation companies, but only use ones that are set up as non profits. Like the idea of getting a mail box. Was any of the debt used for your mom's care? Are you her DPOA? Some creditors feel the POA is responsible for the debt, but that's another tactic they use. Know your state's laws and try to get advice from a reputable attorney. If the debt is sizable, the credit card companies will be aggressive. Read, "Dying in Debt" on the Internet. It will give you some answers. You can also talk to a social worker about your situation.
As far as I know, if her name is on the account, she is still responsible. If your name is on the account, then you are too. So she/you should still be paying the monthly bills.
Star - I'm going out on a limb and assuming that your ? is such that mom will not have any really $$ left from her "income" once she is in AL. That the situation now is that all mom's $ is going to the AL either as private pay or on a Medicaid wavier. My answer is based on that.....if mom doesn't have any 1. income other than social security or other retirement income protected from creditors & 2. has no "assets" that a lien can be placed against (like her home if that is allowed in her state, so states like TX do not allow for a CC debtor to place a lien on a homesteaded property). Then she just stops paying the cc debt. It will not be pretty as the debt collectors will be ruthless and constant and could do this for years and years as the debt gets sold and re-sold. But really if the above is the case, there is nothing they can do. Mom isn't likely to go and get a job or win the lottery now is she.....
My late MIL was a real financial terrorist and we dealt with some of these issues. My experience is that the facility (IL, AL - which are usually private pay) really frowns on having residents with these issues. They do NOT want process servers showing up or calls to the front office on Jane Smith's debt. What you can do is go out and rent a mail box for mom. The type at at UPS store or other mailing service. Then mom does a change of address for everything to the newly rented box and also sends a letter to all creditors that everything is to go to the new address and must be in writing. (so no barrage of phone calls to her at the new AL) Try to get one that is close to you if you will be dealing with this paperwork. The whole debt CC could get ugly but as long as you are not legally responsible - as Selfish Siblings said - well it's just too bad for them.
If creditors write off the debt, be sure to be on the look-out every January for a 1099-C. This is a Cancellation of Debt from the creditor. 1099-C is sticky in that the IRS views whatever is the amount on the 1099-C as INCOME. But it's totally phantom invisible income. So if it was 20K in CC debt, the 1099-C could easily be with interest, fines and penalties $ 24,756;38 after a year or more. You have to have mom file taxes on this and she will have to do an impoverishment form so that she doesn't have to pay taxes on this income . Personally, it's not a do-it-yourself Turbo Tax type of project, imho. Good luck and keep a sense of humor as you'll need it to deal with debt collectors.
I agree with all of the above answers, But here is one thing to try. Call the CC company and explain that you realize that mom still owes them the money the problem is mom will not have the funds to pay them after she goes into the AL. If she has any savings at all you could offer it to them for settlement. Sometimes they will take a little and write off the rest. A lot depends on how much is owed. Be prepared to provide proof to them about the amount being charged at the AL and how much income she has. Good luck to you as this may take a while to settle.
If you find the situation is that you are getting the debt calls - being hounded at your home or work AND you know for sure that you are not the co-signer on the debt, then you kinda need to keep a journal of who calls and calmly ask for whom is the debt, who is the debtor and then say firmly " I am not Jane Smith, I have no responsibilty for that debt, This phone number is not Jane Smith's, as such you and then you name the creditor (like '"as such you- Mr. James - as calling on behalf of Discover Card today, March 28, 2013 - cannot be calling this phone number as it is not Jane Smith's). Then you add to that, that you are keeping a log of all contacts by Discover and will file a complaint with your states Attorney General's office. THEN HANG UP. Do not continue to have a conversation.
MilliBillie - the creditors are relentless now aren't they? My MIL had 6 figure debt and really whoever what I learned is that whomever is dealing with it needs to stay calm & never ever agree to anything. About the filial responsiblity law, that seems to be a stretch in actuality. I know PA has used it but it seemed the cases were private pay NH in which the family member signed off on financially responsible and then wouldn't. Filial is more old English law so the older east coast US states have more of these on the books. I'm in LA and we are French law based. I think it's more used as a leverage threat by the creditor. The key is to always, always sign whatever by the NH resident themselves or if you have to sign, then do it in their name (as DPOA you can).Not my signature, not my problem.
But everybody who get's Medicaid is subject to MERP - Medicaid Estate Recovery (or Recoup) Program (or Policy). MERP is required in all states in order for the state to get federal $ for Medicaid program. MERP is very state law dependent as the vehicle for doing MERP is via probate court. My mom is in a NH on Medicaid and still has her home (empty), so MERP is something on my radar.
Thank you everyone for your input. Wish me luck! I am in contact with Mom's Social worker. I will look into all your suggestions. I didn't realize so many people cared and gave a hoot. Another "drink" please!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Debt is very tricky. There are several current articles on the Internet about dying in debt, seniors in debt and so on.
My mom was exploited by my only sibling and left impoverished. He also reactivated old credit card debt and charged thousands of dollars. I was able to get the banks to hold my brother responsible, but my point to you is this- Citibank is relentless and most banks are and will use many techniques to wear you down.
If you are a co-signer, then you are responsible. You can look online for grants for impoverished seniors for help with credit card debt. Call your local Council on Aging and ask them if they know of programs. You can call debt consolidation companies, but only use ones that are set up as non profits.
Like the idea of getting a mail box.
Was any of the debt used for your mom's care? Are you her DPOA? Some creditors feel the POA is responsible for the debt, but that's another tactic they use. Know your state's laws and try to get advice from a reputable attorney. If the debt is sizable, the credit card companies will be aggressive. Read, "Dying in Debt" on the Internet. It will give you some answers. You can also talk to a social worker about your situation.
1. income other than social security or other retirement income protected from creditors &
2. has no "assets" that a lien can be placed against (like her home if that is allowed in her state, so states like TX do not allow for a CC debtor to place a lien on a homesteaded property). Then she just stops paying the cc debt. It will not be pretty as the debt collectors will be ruthless and constant and could do this for years and years as the debt gets sold and re-sold. But really if the above is the case, there is nothing they can do. Mom isn't likely to go and get a job or win the lottery now is she.....
My late MIL was a real financial terrorist and we dealt with some of these issues. My experience is that the facility (IL, AL - which are usually private pay) really frowns on having residents with these issues. They do NOT want process servers showing up or calls to the front office on Jane Smith's debt. What you can do is go out and rent a mail box for mom. The type at at UPS store or other mailing service. Then mom does a change of address for everything to the newly rented box and also sends a letter to all creditors that everything is to go to the new address and must be in writing. (so no barrage of phone calls to her at the new AL) Try to get one that is close to you if you will be dealing with this paperwork. The whole debt CC could get ugly but as long as you are not legally responsible - as Selfish Siblings said - well it's just too bad for them.
If creditors write off the debt, be sure to be on the look-out every January for a 1099-C. This is a Cancellation of Debt from the creditor. 1099-C is sticky in that the IRS views whatever is the amount on the 1099-C as INCOME. But it's totally phantom invisible income. So if it was 20K in CC debt, the 1099-C could easily be with interest, fines and penalties $ 24,756;38 after a year or more. You have to have mom file taxes on this and she will have to do an impoverishment form so that she doesn't have to pay taxes on this income . Personally, it's not a do-it-yourself Turbo Tax type of project, imho. Good luck and keep a sense of humor as you'll need it to deal with debt collectors.
If she has any savings at all you could offer it to them for settlement. Sometimes they will take a little and write off the rest. A lot depends on how much is owed.
Be prepared to provide proof to them about the amount being charged at the AL and how much income she has. Good luck to you as this may take a while to settle.
MilliBillie - the creditors are relentless now aren't they? My MIL had 6 figure debt and really whoever what I learned is that whomever is dealing with it needs to stay calm & never ever agree to anything. About the filial responsiblity law, that seems to be a stretch in actuality. I know PA has used it but it seemed the cases were private pay NH in which the family member signed off on financially responsible and then wouldn't. Filial is more old English law so the older east coast US states have more of these on the books. I'm in LA and we are French law based. I think it's more used as a leverage threat by the creditor. The key is to always, always sign whatever by the NH resident themselves or if you have to sign, then do it in their name (as DPOA you can).Not my signature, not my problem.
But everybody who get's Medicaid is subject to MERP - Medicaid Estate Recovery (or Recoup) Program (or Policy). MERP is required in all states in order for the state to get federal $ for Medicaid program. MERP is very state law dependent as the vehicle for doing MERP is via probate court. My mom is in a NH on Medicaid and still has her home (empty), so MERP is something on my radar.