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It's lovely to see all the me-myself-and-I first-and-foremost my-life-must-be-easy posters - particularly the ones who claim to know me and what I have experienced in my life.
Each to their own. Good luck with your karma.
p.s. I wonder how many of the critics actually work for "facilities" (a.k.a. warehouses for the elderly). Given this is website owned and run by profiteers, I have little doubt they have people who "push" facility living. $$$$$
Elisny, It is very sad that you seem to be so angry.
I am 81. I both had children and spent my life as a nurse when we did what was called "primary care". That meant we did it all. The IVs and the vital signs and the cleansing of the patient. Tasks were not divided between RN and CNA. It was a time when there was lots less record keeping, computer management; indeed we regulated our IV drips by hand, not by the much more safe machine method of today. As I said, another time. So you will know I am up to all sorts of knowledge about cleansing folk of all ages, newborn to dying. There is an enormous difference between an adult and a child.
As to in home care. As I said, I was an RN who LOVED her job. But it was clear to me that I could never have done it 24/7 for anyone without those precious days off, hours between shifts, long vacations. I knew early on that I would not have been capable of that. Not strong enough. My own limitations. Moreover, that was never my parents' wish for me, nor their expectation.
I, at 81, have a 62 year old daughter. She has raised her family now, son through college. Her husband is retired and in this or the next year she herself hopes to retire. They have PLANS they have waited and saved and hoped for a lifetime. My own plans are done. I had that time of retirement, of building a little glass cottage in the country and watching the deer and fox scamper in the hedgerow, of chopping wood for the fire. Those retirement years were some of the most precious of my entire life.
It would SHATTER ME to think that instead of those plans the next decade or so would be spent on caring for me. SHATTER ME. So it is not only my expectation, but I would NEVER allow it.
We are all different. We all make different choices. We all have different expectations.
You are correct that this site is owned by A Place For Mom. They are but one part of this consumer society that welcomes our birth and will be there at our death as well. I think that particular company we speak of serves a real need, though I have never myself used it. My brother before his own death and before the death of his partner used a similar but not that particular service in Palm Springs, and it worked so well for him. On this very Forum in fact the feedback is very divided as to A Place for Mom. Some have said they get pesty and others suggest you just say "He went on Medicaid" and you will never get another call. Guess what, no matter what was said good or bad no one ever censored a word of it, and won't likely censor this one. ( We members on Forum are divided about Reverse mortgages as well!)
Again. You are angry. You got responses you didn't like. I am afraid people who may or may not have had loved ones in care (my beloved brother was in ALF) took umbrage, felt your suggestion that people should not be placed in care was worthy of the responses they gave.back.
No. We don't know you. You don't know us. But this particular Forum is full of some of the most kind people I ever met, trying to help others. Many are doing hands on 24/7 care at home. Some are doing OK and posting helpful hints. Others are crumbling under the pressure. But I think most here are truly trying. IMHO. PS. I think Karma is nonsense. But then I do Tarot, and I think IT'S nonsense also, so go figure.
The kids saying your MIL has no toileting issues can mean that she is able to take care of her incontinence on her own , and it’s controlled meaning she is not soiling or wetting on furniture . They can always charge for the higher level of care in AL if they need to help her . So long as she is cooperative when she needs help , it should be ok in AL.
MIL is being evaluated for ALF care tomorrow and the 'kids' stated firmly that she does not have any toileting issues, but since her trash can is always partially filled with wet/soiled depends---she's obviously NOT continent.
Crud. IS that going to keep her out of an ALF? I guess the next move would to be considering MC, which is simply a step up in care, but a HUGE step up in cost.
Well, nothing I can do at this point. The kids painted a very rosy picture of MIL to the director and I think that's going to backfire, big time. Oh well---guess we'll see!
Typically if the incontinence is not controlled and/or the resident is not compliant with incontinence care , AL will say that resident either needs memory care or SNF. You need to check the contract/lease. My FIL’s specifically talked about this and that a 30 day notice would be given .
My mom is 90yr old with Lewy Body dementia and has been incontinent since 60..she lives in an assisted and changes her own pads daytime, they change her nights. We pay a bit higher rate for the added help. Showers are done also and that is a bit added on. Hers is a medical assisted living.
It depends on what their policy is on it. At the AL were I worked there was a rule that if a person was regularly incontinent (not the occasional accident) they could not move in. If they became diaper dependent, they had to go. Bedside commodes were not allowed either. AL's do not have tolieting schedules where aides bring residents to the bathroom. There isn't staff that changes diapers or empties bedside commodes. That's a nursing home or a memory care facility. Not an assisted living residence.
All of this was covered in the resident packet that was given to the new resident or their representative at the meeting where the contracts were signed. If no one reads the the resident packet, that's on them not the AL.
(c) An operator must not accept nor retain any person who: ___(9) has chronic unmanaged urinary or bowel incontinence;
=============
Is the incontinence chronic and unmanaged?
If NOT, I suggest you either try to negotiate with them for additional service (for a fee, of course :-| ) - or - talk with an attorney.
If you have to move her, try to find a smaller, more personal home for her - where they view her as a person and not just a point of revenue.
=============
On my soapbox: This is another reason to (when at all possible) to keep yourself and loved ones out of "facilities." Not only can you be forced out of an assisted living facility, you have little control over the care provided, and costs will likely increase over time and often by large amounts.
I agree. It's much better to keep a loved one at home where YOU can handle the "chronic and unmanaged incontinence" devoting your life to cleaning up blow outs and finding new devices to clean fecal matter out of crevices 🙄
Every client is different just as every ALF is different. Read your admissions packet and contract very closely. Being removed should be one of the items outlined clearly.
the AL my mom was in a place where they changed their AL license and that made it possible for them to give mom notice. HOWEVER, until I got her out of there, they insisted that I have 24 hour care for her. She was getting UTI’s really often and they did not catch it by her unusual behavior. (Or ignored it). They said she could be a flight risk even though she never was exit seeking. So I had 24 hour care (between me and 2 other ladies that I hired privately) for 11 days. It was expensive but I got her out. I kept the 2 ladies for part time care (2 meals a day and showers, lotions, companionship and UTI awareness -using the AZO strips) when she went to MC. The MC was the best thing because she was safe and with my private carers, I knew she was cared for. EVERYplace will have inconsistent care due to staffing competency and staffing shortages. Bottom line: the AL can do what they want, say what they want, profit is their motivation. I know there are wonderful people that work in AL, MC but they get worn down by the not-wonderful people who don’t work and still get paid. Now, mom is in a non-profit, I have a camera, it is a Christian based and run facility, and the church next door is full of willing and able volunteers. Even in this place I have seen some staff who make mom smile and some who are too quick in their interactions for mom to understand. BUT most of the staff are wonderful and compassionate and engaging. The place that gave me notice mom had to leave is still horrible. They were in the newspaper for non-compliance with local building ordinances. I am glad they did me the favor of kicking her out. It was stressful but worth it.
I'm happy for you that your Mother is being well cared for. I will be facing that tomorrow as I have a meeting with the AL . My Mom has been there since July, and we have hospice coming in. She recently is becoming incontinent. I was there a few days ago and was trying to assist one of the Aides in changing her..so she just left. My Mom is only 105# but I needed help turning her. Then I realized she really needed showered. I walked down to the Med Tech office and all of the aides were basically talking and standing around. One of the older ladies helped me . It's ridiculous! I'm 68 and I'm very capable. However, what I am I paying them for?? I hope it goes well tomorrow, I have a feeling it won't.
Many if not most of the people in ALF, given the age factor, have at least SOME "issues" with incontinence.
So I am thinking this is unusual. Care costs are increased with level of care. That is to say if someone enters quite independent they are on level one care, and their cost is less than a person requiring aid with incontinence, even toileting care, which can get you up to a level four with a lot of added cost very quickly due to the need of increased staffing for your care.
I would discuss with your administration their rules and regulations, as each ALF is an individual business run by their own company and with their own rules.
Most Assisted Living include personal care with the fees that they charge. Now if the person needs a higher level of care that is another matter. If the resident can not transfer from bed to chair or chair to toilet or commode SAFELY with one person assisting the facility may discuss transferring the resident to Skilled Nursing where equipment can be used to safely transfer the resident. I can not imagine, nor have I ever heard of Assisted Living "kicking out" a resident that is incontinent.
Assisted Living is not nursing care. The resident either needs private duty care or needs to be moved to a higher level of care. If this AL does not have higher care levels, it is time to look for another facility.
Yes, if that is not one of their care duties. ALs are just that, they assist. When someone becomes incontinent they may need a higher level of care. Is Dementia involved?
Even though Mom's lease was year to year rent wise she had to put in that she was leaving 30 days before her leaving date so I figure it works that way for the AL, they need to give u 30days.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Each to their own. Good luck with your karma.
p.s. I wonder how many of the critics actually work for "facilities" (a.k.a. warehouses for the elderly). Given this is website owned and run by profiteers, I have little doubt they have people who "push" facility living. $$$$$
It is very sad that you seem to be so angry.
I am 81. I both had children and spent my life as a nurse when we did what was called "primary care". That meant we did it all. The IVs and the vital signs and the cleansing of the patient. Tasks were not divided between RN and CNA. It was a time when there was lots less record keeping, computer management; indeed we regulated our IV drips by hand, not by the much more safe machine method of today. As I said, another time.
So you will know I am up to all sorts of knowledge about cleansing folk of all ages, newborn to dying.
There is an enormous difference between an adult and a child.
As to in home care. As I said, I was an RN who LOVED her job. But it was clear to me that I could never have done it 24/7 for anyone without those precious days off, hours between shifts, long vacations. I knew early on that I would not have been capable of that. Not strong enough. My own limitations.
Moreover, that was never my parents' wish for me, nor their expectation.
I, at 81, have a 62 year old daughter. She has raised her family now, son through college. Her husband is retired and in this or the next year she herself hopes to retire. They have PLANS they have waited and saved and hoped for a lifetime. My own plans are done. I had that time of retirement, of building a little glass cottage in the country and watching the deer and fox scamper in the hedgerow, of chopping wood for the fire. Those retirement years were some of the most precious of my entire life.
It would SHATTER ME to think that instead of those plans the next decade or so would be spent on caring for me. SHATTER ME. So it is not only my expectation, but I would NEVER allow it.
We are all different. We all make different choices. We all have different expectations.
You are correct that this site is owned by A Place For Mom. They are but one part of this consumer society that welcomes our birth and will be there at our death as well.
I think that particular company we speak of serves a real need, though I have never myself used it. My brother before his own death and before the death of his partner used a similar but not that particular service in Palm Springs, and it worked so well for him.
On this very Forum in fact the feedback is very divided as to A Place for Mom.
Some have said they get pesty and others suggest you just say "He went on Medicaid" and you will never get another call. Guess what, no matter what was said good or bad no one ever censored a word of it, and won't likely censor this one.
( We members on Forum are divided about Reverse mortgages as well!)
Again. You are angry. You got responses you didn't like. I am afraid people who may or may not have had loved ones in care (my beloved brother was in ALF) took umbrage, felt your suggestion that people should not be placed in care was worthy of the responses they gave.back.
No. We don't know you. You don't know us. But this particular Forum is full of some of the most kind people I ever met, trying to help others. Many are doing hands on 24/7 care at home. Some are doing OK and posting helpful hints. Others are crumbling under the pressure. But I think most here are truly trying. IMHO.
PS. I think Karma is nonsense. But then I do Tarot, and I think IT'S nonsense also, so go figure.
The kids saying your MIL has no toileting issues can mean that she is able to take care of her incontinence on her own , and it’s controlled meaning she is not soiling or wetting on furniture . They can always charge for the higher level of care in AL if they need to help her . So long as she is cooperative when she needs help , it should be ok in AL.
MIL is being evaluated for ALF care tomorrow and the 'kids' stated firmly that she does not have any toileting issues, but since her trash can is always partially filled with wet/soiled depends---she's obviously NOT continent.
Crud. IS that going to keep her out of an ALF? I guess the next move would to be considering MC, which is simply a step up in care, but a HUGE step up in cost.
Well, nothing I can do at this point. The kids painted a very rosy picture of MIL to the director and I think that's going to backfire, big time. Oh well---guess we'll see!
You need to check the contract/lease.
My FIL’s specifically talked about this and that a 30 day notice would be given .
All of this was covered in the resident packet that was given to the new resident or their representative at the meeting where the contracts were signed. If no one reads the the resident packet, that's on them not the AL.
https://regs.health.ny.gov/content/section-4884-admission-and-retention-standards
(c) An operator must not accept nor retain any person who:
___(9) has chronic unmanaged urinary or bowel incontinence;
=============
Is the incontinence chronic and unmanaged?
If NOT, I suggest you either try to negotiate with them for additional service (for a fee, of course :-| ) - or - talk with an attorney.
If you have to move her, try to find a smaller, more personal home for her - where they view her as a person and not just a point of revenue.
=============
On my soapbox: This is another reason to (when at all possible) to keep yourself and loved ones out of "facilities." Not only can you be forced out of an assisted living facility, you have little control over the care provided, and costs will likely increase over time and often by large amounts.
Read the admissions packet is right!
The place that gave me notice mom had to leave is still horrible. They were in the newspaper for non-compliance with local building ordinances. I am glad they did me the favor of kicking her out. It was stressful but worth it.
So I am thinking this is unusual. Care costs are increased with level of care. That is to say if someone enters quite independent they are on level one care, and their cost is less than a person requiring aid with incontinence, even toileting care, which can get you up to a level four with a lot of added cost very quickly due to the need of increased staffing for your care.
I would discuss with your administration their rules and regulations, as each ALF is an individual business run by their own company and with their own rules.
Now if the person needs a higher level of care that is another matter.
If the resident can not transfer from bed to chair or chair to toilet or commode SAFELY with one person assisting the facility may discuss transferring the resident to Skilled Nursing where equipment can be used to safely transfer the resident.
I can not imagine, nor have I ever heard of Assisted Living "kicking out" a resident that is incontinent.
Even though Mom's lease was year to year rent wise she had to put in that she was leaving 30 days before her leaving date so I figure it works that way for the AL, they need to give u 30days.
Hopefully they would give reasonable notice and also allow you to try some basic things first, Depends etc.
Is this person wearing Depends? Please share more information about this matter so that we can assist you further.
Is incontinence the only problem or are there other problems as well?