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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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My husband's neurologist ordered a driving assessment by an occupational therapist. The results were then given to us & doctor and doctor notified DMV, which notified us to turn in license. Be prepared for an emotional rollercoaster (understandably). My defense to husband is he is being responsible and eliminating accidents or worse. Also, remind him there are worse things than not being able to drive. Doesn't always work, but at least my worry load is lessened by one thing, but now I do all driving and he wants to go everywhere with me. There are tradeoffs I guess......
We exchanged the key on my husbands key ring with a similar key from another car so his car would not start. Then new excuses were made until he got used to not driving.
Boy can I relate with this one! Dad was 93 and still driving. I voiced my concern to his then primary care physician. He examined him and said he "passed" the dementia test. I then called NJ DMV. In the state of NJ, you cannot take a license away from a driver, no matter the age. They can be voluntarily retested, but they call it "age discrimination" to take their license. If the driver should have an accident or get a summons, the police can request retesting and take the license until they pass the retesting or if they fail, keep it. So, at 93 dad was still driving. His original primary care doctor left and a new one took his place. Asked me if he was still driving. Yep, he is. He told dad to remember 3 words..........he would ask him in a few minutes to repeat the words. I'll never forget them, hat, tree and book. Dad couldn't remember. The doc wrote a script to the DMV saying to revoke his driving privileges due to progression of dementia. I took the script along with his license to DMV and they still didn't want to take his license. They wanted him to come in and they would change the license to just a form of ID. Nope, not going for that, so since the doc told dad no more driving, he was ok with it. I thought it would be so unfair for him to know his car was in the garage, yet he couldn't drive, so I had the car sold within 5 days. At one time I called DMV to ask about his driving and I was told about the age discrimination thing, and also told that there was nothing to stop him from going out and buying a new car if I took his keys away. While I was concerned about his safety, I was more concerned about the safety of others on the road. Just last week, a 91 year old man hit the gas instead of the brake in a shopping center parking lot. He took out 5 parked cars. He got no summons nor was he told to be retested. He used a walker and 2 canes to get around, yet he was driving. My suggestion to anyone with an elderly parent issue is to have the doctor either write a script to DMV telling them the driving license should be revoked or have them retested at DMV. Of course a lot depends on the state you live in too.
When my dad wanted to keep driving when I knew he shouldn't I tried to discuss it with him. That didn't work. Then I tried to be more forceful and that didn't work either. Finally, I had his Dr. speak to him about it and that finally did the trick. However, I was prepared to take his car keys if I had to.
My mother also has this FTD. It didn't matter what we said , or who told her she couldn't drive. As far as she was concerned she was a good driver and what did these people know about it , they had never even seen her drive! Eventually we contacted or local community policeman , who kindly came round (in uniform) and had a chat with her. She gave up her keys then. Shes wasn't fit to drive but her Dr was reluctant to report her to the DVLA. Technically I dont even thick she was covered by her insurers as they didnt know about her dementia. At the end of the day I couldn't have it on my conscience if she had an accident and hurt or killed someone. Good luck .x
A visit to their doctor can stop them from driving. After his doctor told him that he could hurt someone if he continues to drive, my father stopped and we hired Personal Care Attendants to help with errands and grocery shopping.
Oh my does this all sound like our story with my Dad. Dad had dementia for over five years before we got him out from behind the wheel. We was totally unsafe driving. The doctor told Dad he shouldn't drive, but he paid that no attention. We argued that he was going to hurt himself, or someone else. We asked him how he would feel if he killed some child on the street. He refused to even answer. Just said that would never happen.
But he was losing his way on familiar roads, and driving for hours to get to places five minutes away. He was having accidents and speeding tickets . This after an entire lifetime of being the slowest driver on the road. He claimed all the incidents were the other guy's fault, even when there wasn't an "other guy". The police had to call us to come take him home when he was found miles from home, and seemed disoriented. We took the keys, but he must have had six sets, all scattered around the house so drove anyway. We argued and he remained uncooperative.
All manner of things happened, but nothing stopped him. He got stuck in snow drifts repeatedly last winter, and somehow always found some kind soul to shovel him out. When he forgot how to turn his car lights off, the neighbors would help him each evening to turn them off. That was until we begged them not to. So the battery went dead and we hoped that would stop him, but unfortunately Dad was able to call AAA to fix it. We thought flat tires would stop him, but NO. He drove on the flats, till the neighbors called the police . He refused to admit the tires were flat before the police showed up, and the police officer (believe it or not) called the auto repair shop to come fix the tires. I even asked the police if it was legal for us to just take the car away. The answer was, "No".
I called the BMV and begged for help and they gave me erroneous info on how get Dad's license revoked, adding months to the process. But eventually we got the doctor to write to the BMV, who then sent a letter to Dad, saying he had to get another physical from the doctor to declare if he was fit to drive or not. The doctor then had to send that letter in to the BMV, who sent another letter to Dad requiring Dad come to the license bureau for testing within thirty days.
Dad refused of course, constantly saying how he was the best driver and they had no right to insist he go for a test. On the last possible day Dad finally agreed to take the test, which he failed miserably, despite the license bureau workers bending over backward to help him. Their supervisor talked to Dad, very compassionately, for over an hour, telling him they were keeping his license, and that he could no longer drive. ...The instant Dad got in my car for the ride home, he very angrily stated "You're not taking my car from me!!" "I can drive and you can't stop me.!!"
Which we couldn't. When I dropped him off at his house, he got out of my car and into his, and drove away. I called the police, but they said they couldn't do anything about it unless he gets stopped for some reason while driving. Having no license was not reason enough. So he drove, every day, all day sometimes, for the next several weeks, (with AAA and the auto repair place still coming every few days to jump his engine) until the day Dad drove the car right through the closed garage door. Totally obliterated that huge old door. All that remainded was splinters and shards of glass. And Dad said, it was the other guys fault ! (He meant the fellow who'd just jumped the engine for him that morning) . "He must have done something to my car. He ruined my car."
The only good part of that was that, we were able to get the car away from him under the guise of having it fixed. Every day, for weeks he demanded his car back, demanding that we take him to his car. He insisted he could drive and that we didn't have any right to keep him away from his car. Always blaming me. There were unceasing angry, ugly arguments everyday, worse than all the ones we'd been having for over a year of trying to get him to stop driving.
I was beside myself, not knowing how to stop the angry episodes so I called the police again. This time they finally sent out a very kind officer, who spoke to Dad, at told him (basically lied to him) that the car was being held by the police and would never be released to him, as he didn't have a license to drive. That he could sell the car, but he was never getting it back.
And even then, once the police officer left, Dad was angrily saying "I can drive and they can't stop me. !!" And I answered: "And what car do you think you're going to drive? You don't have one anymore, and you are sure as hell not driving mine !" ...And finally he shut up, because there was no answer to that.
And now, half a year later, he still hasn't stopped being angry about that car. And he still complains how "they had no right" and how he is "the best driver out there." He's barely coherent most of the time now, but he still mentions that car.
Just take the keys, no amount of reasoning is going to convince them and the games just prolong the issue. It is difficult, but if you are their caregiver, just another difficult chore that you must do to protect them and the other drivers on the roads. My LO continues to think that he should be allowed to drive (and he is not even able to walk on his own). Just last evening he told me that he was not happy with me because I took the keys away from him (and that was two years ago) I just told him that I was not happy about his poor health forcing me to do that, but that the DMV and the general public were happy that he was not driving and did he want some ice cream. He told me - screw you about the driving and yes please on the ice cream.
Lucysmom501 is correct. Reporting someone to the DMV is pointless. They will do nothing. Being elderly is not a crime (like DWI or DUI where upon the courts can direct the DMV to suspend/revoke a license). It is age discrimination and they will not do it. Contacting the local police to have a safety "discussion" with your father MAY convince him to hand over his keys to YOU. However, the police department cannot legally force someone to "give up" their license. Even if the elderly person is in an accident, you cannot force them to give up their driver's license. Nice, huh?
My 64-year old brother-in-law had a stroke one year ago. He is not fully capable to drive safely. In fact, he was recovering at his elderly parents' home and I begged them (my in-laws) to "hide" his car keys. My BIL kept going out to his car in the driveway and starting it (not moving it, just starting it). He was obsessed with wanting to drive again. They told us, "oh, no, he won't drive." Well, guess what? One day while they weren't paying attention to what their son was doing, he got pissed at his parents for some unknown reason and got in his car and drove away. He intention was to drive to Canada (over the border/bridge) to visit his girlfriend. He is also a diabetic and was getting low blood sugar and got totally confused. He drove around for an hour. He was eventually stopped at the bridge by customs and we were called and had to come get him and his car. He is now on the "watch list" at the bridge. He could have killed someone. This all would have been avoided if my in-laws would have just take the keys away.
When he got home, the local police dept was called because he became very nasty, belligerant and abusive (even though he can only say 5 words because of his stroke) because he kept insisting that we give him his car keys. The local police officer told us that even though he had a stroke, in the eyes of the law he still has a valid driver's license and they cannot "legally" take that away from him. Again, nice. So basically, he can get in his car and drive around and possibly kill himself and take someone else with him. Wonderful. We, of course, did NOT give him his car keys back.
My husband took his brother to his primary care doctor and the doctor told my BIL that if he wants to drive, he needs to be re-evaluated at a local hospital clinic where they have a driver evaluation program for stroke victims. This is a 4-hour comprehensive evaluation/exam (using verbal, comprehension and actual driving skills). My father-in-law made the appt for him and off they went to the program. Well, after 1 1/2 hours, he couldn't even get through the verbal/visual /comprehension part -- so no way were they going to let him try the driving part). They told him to come back in a year to be re-evaluated. You can imagine how pissed my BIL was when they told him that! Needless to say, my FIL would not give him his keys. He became more verbally abusive to my in-laws (who are 83 and 88 years old) and the next time my BIL was admitted to the ER because of his blood sugar and insulin meds being all screwed up, they told the Discharge Planner that they could no longer "take care of him" at their home and he was placed in an independent living facility with nurses on staff to administer his meds. My BIL's car is still in my FIL's driveway. Realistically, will my BIL ever drive again? No. Not gonna happen. My FIL should just get rid of the car but my BIL would have to sign over the title and he won't do it. So there the car rots. Ugh.
So bottom line, if your father has dementia and you feel he is a danger to himself and/or others, take the keys. No one likes to give up their indepedence. He may or may not get angry but know you have done the right thing. If he drives and kills someone, whose conscience will that be on? I don't mean to be harsh, but someone's got to do the right thing and that someone is you.
Oh, and by the way, doctors rarely want to get involved in reporting their patients to the DMV. That's not their job and if elderly patients feared their doctors were going to do this, they would stop going to their doctors. They may "suggest" to their patients that they shouldn't drive. Sometimes hearing from their physicians does the trick, but generally doctors don't want to get involved. I don't blame them.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Be prepared for an emotional rollercoaster (understandably). My defense to husband is he is being responsible and eliminating accidents or worse. Also, remind him there are worse things than not being able to drive. Doesn't always work, but at least my worry load is lessened by one thing, but now I do all driving and he wants to go everywhere with me. There are tradeoffs I guess......
Eventually we contacted or local community policeman , who kindly came round (in uniform) and had a chat with her. She gave up her keys then.
Shes wasn't fit to drive but her Dr was reluctant to report her to the DVLA. Technically I dont even thick she was covered by her insurers as they didnt know about her dementia. At the end of the day I couldn't have it on my conscience if she had an accident and hurt or killed someone. Good luck .x
But he was losing his way on familiar roads, and driving for hours to get to places five minutes away. He was having accidents and speeding tickets . This after an entire lifetime of being the slowest driver on the road. He claimed all the incidents were the other guy's fault, even when there wasn't an "other guy". The police had to call us to come take him home when he was found miles from home, and seemed disoriented. We took the keys, but he must have had six sets, all scattered around the house so drove anyway. We argued and he remained uncooperative.
All manner of things happened, but nothing stopped him. He got stuck in snow drifts repeatedly last winter, and somehow always found some kind soul to shovel him out. When he forgot how to turn his car lights off, the neighbors would help him each evening to turn them off. That was until we begged them not to. So the battery went dead and we hoped that would stop him, but unfortunately Dad was able to call AAA to fix it. We thought flat tires would stop him, but NO. He drove on the flats, till the neighbors called the police . He refused to admit the tires were flat before the police showed up, and the police officer (believe it or not) called the auto repair shop to come fix the tires. I even asked the police if it was legal for us to just take the car away. The answer was, "No".
I called the BMV and begged for help and they gave me erroneous info on how get Dad's license revoked, adding months to the process. But eventually we got the doctor to write to the BMV, who then sent a letter to Dad, saying he had to get another physical from the doctor to declare if he was fit to drive or not. The doctor then had to send that letter in to the BMV, who sent another letter to Dad requiring Dad come to the license bureau for testing within thirty days.
Dad refused of course, constantly saying how he was the best driver and they had no right to insist he go for a test. On the last possible day Dad finally agreed to take the test, which he failed miserably, despite the license bureau workers bending over backward to help him. Their supervisor talked to Dad, very compassionately, for over an hour, telling him they were keeping his license, and that he could no longer drive. ...The instant Dad got in my car for the ride home, he very angrily stated "You're not taking my car from me!!" "I can drive and you can't stop me.!!"
Which we couldn't. When I dropped him off at his house, he got out of my car and into his, and drove away. I called the police, but they said they couldn't do anything about it unless he gets stopped for some reason while driving. Having no license was not reason enough. So he drove, every day, all day sometimes, for the next several weeks, (with AAA and the auto repair place still coming every few days to jump his engine) until the day Dad drove the car right through the closed garage door. Totally obliterated that huge old door. All that remainded was splinters and shards of glass. And Dad said, it was the other guys fault ! (He meant the fellow who'd just jumped the engine for him that morning) . "He must have done something to my car. He ruined my car."
The only good part of that was that, we were able to get the car away from him under the guise of having it fixed. Every day, for weeks he demanded his car back, demanding that we take him to his car. He insisted he could drive and that we didn't have any right to keep him away from his car. Always blaming me. There were unceasing angry, ugly arguments everyday, worse than all the ones we'd been having for over a year of trying to get him to stop driving.
I was beside myself, not knowing how to stop the angry episodes so I called the police again. This time they finally sent out a very kind officer, who spoke to Dad, at told him (basically lied to him) that the car was being held by the police and would never be released to him, as he didn't have a license to drive. That he could sell the car, but he was never getting it back.
And even then, once the police officer left, Dad was angrily saying "I can drive and they can't stop me. !!" And I answered: "And what car do you think you're going to drive? You don't have one anymore, and you are sure as hell not driving mine !" ...And finally he shut up, because there was no answer to that.
And now, half a year later, he still hasn't stopped being angry about that car. And he still complains how "they had no right" and how he is "the best driver out there." He's barely coherent most of the time now, but he still mentions that car.
My 64-year old brother-in-law had a stroke one year ago. He is not fully capable to drive safely. In fact, he was recovering at his elderly parents' home and I begged them (my in-laws) to "hide" his car keys. My BIL kept going out to his car in the driveway and starting it (not moving it, just starting it). He was obsessed with wanting to drive again. They told us, "oh, no, he won't drive." Well, guess what? One day while they weren't paying attention to what their son was doing, he got pissed at his parents for some unknown reason and got in his car and drove away. He intention was to drive to Canada (over the border/bridge) to visit his girlfriend. He is also a diabetic and was getting low blood sugar and got totally confused. He drove around for an hour. He was eventually stopped at the bridge by customs and we were called and had to come get him and his car. He is now on the "watch list" at the bridge. He could have killed someone. This all would have been avoided if my in-laws would have just take the keys away.
When he got home, the local police dept was called because he became very nasty, belligerant and abusive (even though he can only say 5 words because of his stroke) because he kept insisting that we give him his car keys. The local police officer told us that even though he had a stroke, in the eyes of the law he still has a valid driver's license and they cannot "legally" take that away from him. Again, nice. So basically, he can get in his car and drive around and possibly kill himself and take someone else with him. Wonderful. We, of course, did NOT give him his car keys back.
My husband took his brother to his primary care doctor and the doctor told my BIL that if he wants to drive, he needs to be re-evaluated at a local hospital clinic where they have a driver evaluation program for stroke victims. This is a 4-hour comprehensive evaluation/exam (using verbal, comprehension and actual driving skills). My father-in-law made the appt for him and off they went to the program. Well, after 1 1/2 hours, he couldn't even get through the verbal/visual /comprehension part -- so no way were they going to let him try the driving part). They told him to come back in a year to be re-evaluated. You can imagine how pissed my BIL was when they told him that! Needless to say, my FIL would not give him his keys. He became more verbally abusive to my in-laws (who are 83 and 88 years old) and the next time my BIL was admitted to the ER because of his blood sugar and insulin meds being all screwed up, they told the Discharge Planner that they could no longer "take care of him" at their home and he was placed in an independent living facility with nurses on staff to administer his meds. My BIL's car is still in my FIL's driveway. Realistically, will my BIL ever drive again? No. Not gonna happen. My FIL should just get rid of the car but my BIL would have to sign over the title and he won't do it. So there the car rots. Ugh.
So bottom line, if your father has dementia and you feel he is a danger to himself and/or others, take the keys. No one likes to give up their indepedence. He may or may not get angry but know you have done the right thing. If he drives and kills someone, whose conscience will that be on? I don't mean to be harsh, but someone's got to do the right thing and that someone is you.
Oh, and by the way, doctors rarely want to get involved in reporting their patients to the DMV. That's not their job and if elderly patients feared their doctors were going to do this, they would stop going to their doctors. They may "suggest" to their patients that they shouldn't drive. Sometimes hearing from their physicians does the trick, but generally doctors don't want to get involved. I don't blame them.
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