Hi. Haven't used this in a awhile. I have been informed by a sibling that my Dad may not be getting the best care; his own decisions a likely factor.
Where to start. First, about his condition.
He is completely bedbound. Completely. Can't even sit up. He can still talk but can still talk and move his head and eat.
He wears a diaper and a tube is in his stomach connected to his bladder to handle his poop and pee. While he can still eat, I don't think he's getting the best meals and food. He's too skinny for my liking. Either it's because of his condition, or he's picky eater and not eating the right kind of food.
Living environment. Currently, he is in a rehab hospital. Recently, he had to have one of his feet amputated due to an infection that would not clear up. And he's only prone to skin infection and bed sores.
Here's is where I am in dire need of help for his sake.
Despite all of my Dad's medical problems, for some reason, he's still in charge of his own care and money, and NONE of us kids have any say over either.
It is baffling. Because my Dad is in the worst state possible, and we kids have NO say on his care and finances whatsoever.
Why is that a problem?
Because he's trying to get discharged from the hospital and being transported by to his studio apartment that he has been paying for NINE MONTHS WHILE STILL IN THE HOSPITAL! WASTE OF MONEY!
Since none of us kids have any say over him whatsoever, I'm terrified he can and WOULD discharge himself despite his HORRIBLE medical conditions. Yeah, maybe the hospital wouldn't discharge him due severity of his conditions, but we kids still have no say just in case he COULD be discharge just by his word.
For the last FOUR YEARS we have tried to talk him into 24 hour care at a proper and equipped facility of some sort. We are always ignored and dismissed when we bring it up.
My dad will not listen to us. He is completely on care, yet we have no say whatsoever.
I baffles me is how is the law and the state on his side when it comes to his word and decisions, despite being completely being incapable to care for himself.
My Dad says he would get enough care by living in his apartment and having people come over and take care of him. That's just not possible due to his policy and his finances.
I need help. I don't want to gain power over him just to dump him in a home. I need power over him because he is not making the best decisions regarding care.
I'm not exaggerating and there's evidence we can provide. So I need advice and how to properly gain power of attorney and have legal say over my dad's care and finances (what little he has, he doesn't have much)
How do I do this?
1) Tell the hospital that it’s an unsafe discharge. Make it quite clear that no-one in the family is stepping up to “come over and take care of him”. You can’t and won’t do it, quite irrespective of whether his policy and finances make it possible.
2) You can’t ‘gain a POA’ against his will - he has to give it to you, and sign it himself.
3) You can apply for guardianship. You will need a lawyer, time and money to go through getting it, but it’s possible.
4) If the hospital can’t discharge him because it's an unsafe discharge and you are adamant that you are not going to provide support, they can arrange for the state to get guardianship and force the choices. It won’t cost you, but the family will no longer have any say in what happens.
5) You can accept that he is going home, let it happen, and call APS to report him as at risk. Don’t try to organise the “people to come over and take care of him”, it’s up to him. That may go straight back to the state guardianship option. However it might mean a) he gets home and realises almost immediately that he can’t cope, and/or b) he accepts what he is told by APS. Many elders will listen to ‘officials’ when they won’t take any notice of family members.
Many people on the site are in the position of having to wait for a crisis because strong minded elders won’t accept common sense. They are usually expecting a fall and broken bones. It’s a hard thing to back off and not do all you can, but sometimes it really is the only option.
Sympathy and best wishes to all your family. Yours, Margaret
First. Me and my dad now live in different States. He lives in Nevada, and I, in California. Thought I'd share in case it's relevant explain why I can't care for him personally.
Second, according to my sister, who lives 40 minutes away from my dad, his apartment is in a unacceptable condition. According to her, it's infected with bugs, has ahorid smells, and badly stained carpets from past accidents. In short, I think any authority, health legal or otherwise would deem his residence unacceptable for him to live, in even by his own choice.
I understand none of us here are legal experts (to my knowledge), I was wondering if my dad chooses to live in an environment I like the one the just described, would he still be allowed to if be wanted?
There another thing I want to make clear. He's not just 'sick' or 'ill' as that over person has said, he is completely bedbound, cannot even control his bowels at all, has some TUBE surgically inserted somewhere in his abdomen to deal with his pee, it has a bowel movement at any time with no control whatsoever. He requires round the clock care 24/7. The last picture I saw him he looked too skinny to me but that could be just because of his medical conditions and his age. I'm worried that he's not eating enough for eating the right food of balanced diet and nutrition his body needs.
I understand POA has to be given with consent. I also understand the hospital may not discharge him with how serious in state is, but since he is indeed, completely aware of the surroundings and completely coherent, I am afraid he could be discharged if they can't hold him legally against his will. Should he be transported to his apartment, I don't see HOW he'll receive 24-hour care when his finances are very low, and his insurance is not the best.
Should he be allowed to go home just because he's mentally stable, I'm afraid he'll be left alone too often and/or waste away.
I understand POW is not the answer. Maybe guardianship is. Maybe. I don't know. Me and my siblings are not looking for control, we are concerned our Father bad decision making to his care when his condition is in the worst state you can imagine, short of anything terminal. I forgot he's prone to bed sores and infection and is missing a foot from infection.
If social services is aware all that, or any legal or health authority is, (God I hope they are aware) how serious his condition is, even if me and my siblings are unable to take any legal control over whatsoever, I do hope he is being monitored by the system so to speak. Do you know what I mean?
It's fine if he's in control, I just hope he's being monitored by legal or health authority that is able accordingly with both the regulations and his wishes.
But if he's not monitored. Say he is able to be transported while in his condition and is unable to get ENOUGH care from caretakers depending on insurance and finance, what can I do?
Despite his body being as it is, can I really do nothing?
I am sorry if my previous post was choppy and erratic, but I'm calmer now.
You might suggest to dad that it might be wise for him to sign a HIPAA form, which would allow his doctor to share medical information with you and your siblings. Doesn't give you all any decision making power, it just allows you to find out what the plan is.
The most likely think is that the facility will ask for emergency guardianship so that your dad can be placed in a Long Term Care facility.
If for some reason dad discharges himself, you are going to call Adult Protective Services in his community and report him as a vulnerable elder.
I admit, I'm lacking in some information and lacking in contact with the appropriate parties I SHOULD be in contact with. It's only thanks to my sibling that I'm aware how bad this condition has gone. I don't mean to bash my Dad as I've done 2 years ago, but he is a compulsive liar. For 2 years away from each other, he always said "I'm fine."
The same still holds.
You can and should inform the discharge department of the rehab that dad lives alone and that there is no one to care for him.
Edit after Guy's new post; have any of you "kids" spoken to the Social Worker at the rehab to inform them of dad's living conditions or ask if they are going to pursue State guardianship for your dad?
First. Me and my dad now live in different States. He lives in Nevada, and I, in California. Thought I'd share in case it's relevant explain why I can't care for him personally.
Second, according to my sister, who lives 40 minutes away from my dad, his apartment is in a unacceptable condition. According to her, it's infected with bugs, has ahorid smells, and badly stained carpets from past accidents. In short, I think any authority, health legal or otherwise would deem his residence unacceptable for him to live, in even by his own choice.
I understand none of us here are legal experts (to my knowledge), I was wondering if my dad chooses to live in an environment I like the one the just described, would he still be allowed to if be wanted?
There another thing I want to make clear. He's not just 'sick' or 'ill' as that over person has said, he is completely bedbound, cannot even control his bowels at all, has some TUBE surgically inserted somewhere in his abdomen to deal with his pee, it has a bowel movement at any time with no control whatsoever. He requires round the clock care 24/7. The last picture I saw him he looked too skinny to me but that could be just because of his medical conditions and his age. I'm worried that he's not eating enough for eating the right food of balanced diet and nutrition his body needs.
I understand POA has to be given with consent. I also understand the hospital may not discharge him with how serious in state is, but since he is indeed, completely aware of the surroundings and completely coherent, I am afraid he could be discharged if they can't hold him legally against his will. Should he be transported to his apartment, I don't see HOW he'll receive 24-hour care when his finances are very low, and his insurance is not the best.
Should he be allowed to go home just because he's mentally stable, I'm afraid he'll be left alone too often and/or waste away.
I understand POW is not the answer. Maybe guardianship is. Maybe. I don't know. Me and my siblings are not looking for control, we are concerned our Father bad decision making to his care when his condition is in the worst state you can imagine, short of anything terminal. I forgot he's prone to bed sores and infection and is missing a foot from infection.
If social services is aware all that, or any legal or health authority is, (God I hope they are aware) how serious his condition is, even if me and my siblings are unable to take any legal control over whatsoever, I do hope he is being monitored by the system so to speak. Do you know what I mean?
It's fine if he's in control, I just hope he's being monitored by legal or health authority that is able accordingly with both the regulations and his wishes.
But if he's not monitored. Say he is able to be transported while in his condition and is unable to get ENOUGH care from caretakers depending on insurance and finance, what can I do?
Despite his body being as it is, can I really do nothing?
This is beyond MS I'd say. Since the last time I was here two years, he's gotten worst.
For some reason? Because being ill does not deprive anyone of his right to make his own choices about his own life.
You have no right to any legal say in your father's decisions. Nor has he any in yours. Why should it be different? He has MS. That doesn't make him unable to know his own mind.
Draw the proper boundaries between his life and your life, and offer him whatever kind of support you are comfortable with giving (which can be right down to "none at all" without anyone having the right to give you a hard time about it). You don't have any responsibilities towards a competent adult making his own choices. If the choices he makes seem impractical to you that still isn't your problem. It is up to your father and his health and social care team to figure it out.
Incidentally, if necessary, remind your mother of the same and do NOT take him in to be cared for.
Your father is probably capable of self-discharging from hospital (I did so myself once years ago), getting a taxi, and having it drop him off under a bridge to live homeless. Most governments don’t go around finding homeless people and putting them into care. Some of those people also have relatives who have given up trying for anything better.
Don’t blame yourself too much, and understand that you can’t actually make your father (or any of the institutions involved) do what you think should happen. It’s all very hard. Yours, Margaret
PS If your father is renting and the place is in bad shape, you might perhaps contact the landlord. If the landlord terminates the rental because the conditions are a breach of the terms, it might result in your father not having an easy ‘going home’ in mind.
While your father is mentally competent, now is the time to get his affairs in order. Get him to a lawyer who can draft power of attorney for medical decisions, power of attorney for financial decisions, his will, documents outlining end-of-life care (as in CPR or no CPR, artificial nutrition/hydration, ventilator or no ventilator...). Different people can be named on these documents. The lawyer can guide the process. Get these done now, since it appears the family will need to use them in the near future.
I was just in your situation not long ago. Your dad and my dad would have been drinking buddies a few years ago. I wish I could tell you a quick and effective solution to your problem but I can’t.
I told my dad’s doctor the same thing. He wanted to live independently but couldn’t clean the poop off his bed. The house smelled worse than the worst cat litter box you can imagine. You could smell it from the parking lot. He only ate cookies and hot chocolate and doubled in weight. He spent more on TV senior scam products than his social security income.
What my dad’s doctor said was, “He has the right to make his own choices, even if those choices are bad.”
I had to bid my time. His house becomes a disgusting hole: Call the family over to smell it for themselves. They stop defending his “rights” after a sniff of his poop from the sidewalk. Let his credit get ruined: don’t pay for his junk from your paycheck. Keep his doctor up-to-date with ‘friendly’ observations in writing/emails: it’s a wonder what accountability does to change someone’s opinion.
If your old man and my old man are cut from the same cloth I wish you luck. Old men are stubborn, mean and a**holes. Let him crash and burn. Only then can you help him.
P.S. They always say “I’m fine.” Otherwise you’d send them to an old folks home to be killed off. Just saying.
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