Dementia help. Property and money.

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Dementia help. Property and money.

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Ok my daddy has dementia. I have had P.o.a for about 3 years. Last few weeks I signed his house in my name and transferred his money to my bank. The problem now is he is getting bad to where I can't take care of him. Is there a way we can insure that the property and money ain't taken by the bank if he has to go to a nursing home

Alzheimer's & Dementia Care Decisions Medicaid Medicaid Lookback Skilled Nursing Facility

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No, he won’t be approved for Medicaid. Medicaid will look at his assets over the past 5 years and if had money that could have been used for his care , or assets that could have been used to fund his care, but gave them away or transferred them to a family member, Medicaid will not pay for his care. So, you are going to have to pay for his care from the money you transferred from him until that runs out and then Medicaid will likely put a lien on the house. You really need to see an attorney to entangle this and set up the assets to prepare for the future.

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Reply to mstrbill

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Dad’s assets are meant to pay for dad’s care. We all have the personal responsibility to provide for our needs, if at all possible. By removing his assets into your name, he’s deprived of the money to pay for his care. He needs memory care or a nursing home. His home should be sold to pay for this, as well as using his money. Trying to hang onto it and hide it causes the issue of who’s going to pay? Care is expensive, it’s never even close to free, it costs. If he needs Medicaid, a government program for people who don’t have the ability to pay, he’s now deprived of that because his assets have been essentially hidden. There will be a 5 year look back of what’s occurred that will uncover this. The bank was never going to take his money. Never happens. His money was going to pay for his care, as it should. Medicaid, if used, has the right to attempt to recover the amount of taxpayer money spent, after a person dies. As he’s now too difficult to care for in a home setting, I hope you’ve hung onto his funds and can use his money, along with selling his house, to pay for a place that will provide good care

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Reply to Daughterof1930

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Hopefully this is some sort of typo, because if you have really taken his home and his money you are about to go to jail.

They will provide housing and food for you, and assign someone who understands POA to your Dad. That person will manage his care and his home and money.

Were I you I would consult an elder law attorney this week to see about options and damage control.

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Reply to AlvaDeer

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He has now become self pay and that is what the money you transferred is to be used for.

I hope that you actually did not do this, Medicaid has a 5 year look back, and you transferred his money and assets to you, this would be considered an attempt to defraud, can carry a jail sentence. Not good.

Might be a good idea to make an appointment with an attorney, like now.

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Reply to MeDolly

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As others have pointed out you should never have done this without consulting the elder law or estate planning attorney, or Medicaid Planner for his home state. At this point he won't qualify financially for Medicaid (he also has to qualify medically and that's another story).

Now you might have 2024 tax implications from this transaction, depending on how much was transferred, plus the value of the house... you gifted both to yourself.

Even though you did this I would now pay some consulting fees to a professional (Accountant, tax attorney, elder law attorney) to figure out how to undo this, if possible.

Also fyi if he ever does qualify for Medicaid, a lien is put on his home which can be cleared by his heirs -- neither the bank nor Medicaid physically takes a person's home. Medicaid rules vary by state, this is why you need a local professional.

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Reply to Geaton777

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I guess the County Clerk excepted the change of ownership because you have POA. But this should not have been done. Medicaid has a 5 year lookback. In that time no transfers of money, gifting or changing deed owners is allowed. Its considered hiding money and it will cause a penalty. Dad can't enter care until that penalty is met. That means you care for Dad or you pay for his care privately.

You should never co-mingle money. As a POA, Dads finances need to be kept separate. His bank statement will show his money going in and coming out. Now, your going to have a problem separating Dads expenses from yours and proving what money is yours. If you placed Dad on your acct, Medicaid considers it all his money unless u can prove otherwise.

The bank would not take the money or property. Neither will Medicaid or the NH, not by the way you worded it. The house is an exempt asset until death when it becomes an asset that Medicaid can recover money they put out. They don't take the house, they place a lien on it. Which has to be satisfied at time of sale, which the family is responsible for. Dads SS and any pension he receives will go towards his care. If you have been living and caring for him for at least 2 yrs, you may be able to remain in the home by claiming Caregiver allowance. But then you will need to prove you can pay the upkeep on the home.

As said, you now need an Elder Lawyer who is versed in Medicaid law to help u reverse what you have done. He will be able to help you from there and you can use Dads money, I think.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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So many people want to cheat the taxpayer.

It’s pathetic.

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Reply to ZippyZee

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Everybody hates socialism until it benefits them.

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So the property and the money won't be taken by the bank. That's not how that works. In the last few weeks, you used your POA to transfer the ownership of your father's home into your name. At the same time you transferred your father's money to your bank - assuming that means your bank account.

And some how - interestingly enough- in that same last few weeks - his care has become too much for you and you would like to transfer him to a nursing home.

That home does not belong to you. That money does not belong to you. BOTH proceeds should be used to pay for your father's care. You cannot ensure that the money will not be "taken" because it is not your money. He should be private pay using his own funds to pay for his care, until such time as they run out - at which point he can apply for Medicaid to cover the cost.

What you have done is likely criminal. You used your legal designation as POA to profit/benefit from your father's assets. Assets that should be used to pay for his care.

What will happen? The bank isn't going to "take" that money. That's not their purview. What will happen is that you will apply for Medicaid to pay for his care - and THEY will do a 5 year look back (typically) and track his assets. They will look to see that you have transferred ownership of his home and all of his money to your bank and they will require you to pay that back in some way. Either you will have to continue to take care of him until such time as ALL of that money is paid back in care time OR you will literally have to pay that money back, sell his home and use that for his care. They will not give him Medicaid just because he doesn't show any assets now.

The Medicaid divisor differs by state and are subject to change - but let's just use $10,000 a month as an average - https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/penalty-period-divisor/

Let's say his home is worth $200,000 and you transferred let's say $50,000 in his account. That would make the total penalty of gifting $250,000 that must be clawed back. That would be divided by the $10,000 (again this is just an example, it varies by state). That would be at least 25 MONTHS that you would have to continue to provide care or pay for his care out of YOUR pocket in order to fix this.

And that is IF you manage to avoid some kind of legal/criminal repercussions for Elder Financial Abuse and misuse of your POA.

You are probably better off continuing to take care of your father or pay for his care out of pocket than to try to protect his property and money for yourself. Who else is it for? That is his money.

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Reply to BlueEyedGirl94

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Hello BlueEyedGirl94. I agree with your answer. Medicaid is paid for by tax dollars of every US individual who pays taxes. Trying to hide her Dad's assets in her accounts is not right or legal. And she needs to know that her Dad will get what he pays for. Medicaid payments to facilities is so much less than private pay, and many times the quality difference shows between the Medicaid facility vs the private pay facility. Even with Memory care facilities. I had a friend who used her mom's finances to private pay for memory care as long as possible. She loved the care her mother received. When the funds ran out and Medicaid had to be used, she was broken hearted at the new Medicaid facility she had to move her mother to.

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My daughter has worked in NHs, as an RN, for over 25 yrs. She says there is no difference in care because a person is on Medicaid. Jone of the staff iscsuppose to know who is private pay and who is Medicaid. I guess over time its figured out but even then, the care should not be any different.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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Dementia help. Property and money.

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