Driving...how do you make it stop?

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Driving...how do you make it stop?

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My mom has been a mess for a decade. In a nutshell, dad passed away 2 years ago, mom has been in & out of ER/hospital, substance abuse rehab, skilled nursing rehab, for 8 years now. I got her into assisted living a year ago at which time she was in a wheelchair. She was such a mess they moved her into memory care for 2-3 months because "regular" ALF staff could not manage her. So....they got her into physical & occupational therapy and after months of that, we now have a miraculous recovery and she's using a walker or cane. Now, she's hell-bent on getting her car brought to the facility and starting to drive again. Yikes. I am an only child, there is nobody else to help me stop the insanity. She's not driven since about August of 2020. She has conceded to take some sort of "driving" test from a private school in January, her license comes up for renewal in February. Mom is turning 80 in February. I am assuming the driving instructor will take one look at her and refuse to get in the car if she is behind the wheel.

I am not in a position to sell her car out from under her. Technically she's her own person in terms of making decisions. The ALF she lives at is in the next town over and honestly I try to see her as little as possible for my own sanity.

I assume at some point, someone will step in and say "No way Jose" regarding her driving. However, shockingly the eye doctor just signed off on his part last week (confirming her vision is OK) and it seems everyone just smiles and pretends it's all just fine. She has major balance problems and her last two cars have scratches all over the front ends from parking mishaps over the past 5 years or so. Also, eventually the liquor store will be a destination. So I am also concerned about liability here.

I thought I was free a while back when she was in memory care, but here she is threatening independence again. I cannot take another round.

Difficulty Walking Driving Mom

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If you are not her PoA and you have no real reason to prevent her from driving, they you will need to sit on the sidelines and watch. Be passive aggressive and just don't help her get her vehicle and license back -- especially if you have no real proof she's a danger on the road. Unfortunately, you are the person to step in and say, "No way Jose" to her. No one else will be doing this.

If I were in your shoes (and I have been 4 times) I would stall her until after her license expires. Then don't take her to get it renewed. Don't take her to her car. Don't bring it to her. Does her facility have a van or bus service? Get her connected with another mode of transportation. Does she have the financial means to support a car? Pay for gas and maintenance? Parking? Insurance? If not, then there's another reason to stall her.

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Unfortunately, sometimes when people know that they have a problem, they can become good at hiding it in front of doctors. For example, my neighbor just turned 97 years old, still lives alone, cooks, cleans, and drives although she does not go very far anymore, only to church on Sundays and occasionally to the grocery store. She mowed her own grass until two years ago when she fell and broke her foot. She bounced back pretty well from that but at that point her daughter put her foot down and took the lawn mower away and hired someone to cut her grass. Although she has no health problems, her mind isn't as good as it once was and cannot hear very well and I worry about her still driving and living alone but there's really not much you can do. Why does your mom think she needs a car? Tell her that you'll be there to help her as much as possible. I started doing my neighbors grocery shopping for her so she doesn't have to drive to the store.

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You can notify the DMV of an unsafe driver. They'll haul them in there for an administrative hearing -- at least here in California. They call it "Deteriorated Driving Abilities." Google it for your state, and it should bring up the way to report her.

If Mom's hell-bent on getting booze, though, you've got to find a way to disable her car if you can't sell it. You're fortunate that at least it isn't on the premises where she is. You have every right to refuse to bring the car to her, because it isn't your job to enable her to do dangerous things. If you think she can find a way to get to the car, you may want to have someone pull a spark plug wire or two -- something that isn't easily identifiable like disconnecting the battery. If the car won't start properly, well darn -- it must be because it's been sitting so long, and double darn that it's going to cost a fortune to diagnose and fix it. (It won't - just don't do it.)

I'm sorry you have to go through this.

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I live in California and when my husband had to go before the people who contract with the DMV. They bent over backward to let him keep his license. I was so outdone. A couple of months later his license expired and he failed the test. They kept letting him take it over and over and extending his license. After he got in an accident, I finally got his Doctor to tell him, he couldn't drive because since he had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's if hurt someone, they would sue him, subpoena his medical records, win and take everything we have. That worked long enough for me to get rid of his truck.

I am of the camp, if she isn't fit to drive, just say you will get the car the next time you come. Then the battery would be dead, then the tires flat etc. If she finds a way to get it without Upstreams help, the chips will just have to fall where they may.

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Only child here, as well. Major imbalance problems and previous memory care stay seem to be good reasons for questioning her driving. Get your concerns on paper, being specific with dates and what you see changing in your mom and how it impacts her ability to continue driving. Send to her docs and to the state. Ask each if they think she should be driving.

I was able to do this with my mom, but it took over a year, due to COVID slowdown of government. But, it worked. She did not seek to get license reinstated, as she doesn’t want to go to doctor for an evaluation. She knows she shouldn’t drive.

I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about her safety AND the safety of all else on the road.

Good luck in dealing with this.

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I think it should somehow be outlawed for folks to have only one child. It seems like we only children have THE most difficult parent(s) who live to be 100 and wind up killing us before they pass away. Our mothers have also mastered the art of showtiming to the point where WE look like the bad guys and they look like the sweet, innocent little old ladies they're NOT, all while manipulating their way through every nook & cranny of life.

All I know is that seniors have all these RIGHTS and their children seem to have NONE. When your mother goes out in the car she has a RIGHT to drive and winds up killing someone, I'd like to hear about her RIGHTS then.

If it were me and this was my mother trying to drive, I'd have the car hauled away to the junkyard before I'd see her behind the wheel. Period. She could yell and scream and pitch a fit all she wanted to, but it'd be on HER to figure out how to go about buying another one w/o MY help.

Done and done.

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Anybody thinking this "driving school" person will step-in in any way? Her physical therapist is the one who suggested she do this. I actually think it's a driving test and mom has been made to believe it is some sort of instructor. Honestly the government needs to require actual driving exams at this age. It's terrifying. I live in Florida and the driving here is atrocious. Driving is a priveledge, not a right. Her car is brand new (in 2020) because she totaled her old car in July of 2020. She's only driven about 300 miles since July of 2020. It's on a storage lot near my home. The place she lives at has a van at her beck & call but she wants to drive her own car. And yes that will likely mean the liquor store.

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If she has no regard for what her driving can do to others( should she hit a car and kills a family or children) where are all these people gonna be when this happens?? There are people on this forum that this has happened to. It’s definitely NOT right to help an elderly person who shouldn’t be driving. I live in south central Florida and now that a LOT of elderly are back for the winter, my mom and I have already had several close calls from elderly drivers whose tags are from up north, weaving in the lanes, turning too wide and missing moms new car by 1 foot! That happened just today!

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I agree with the tactic of not helping in any way. Disable the care. Lose the keys. And if that doesn't work, then you're going to have to bite the bullet and not give her the keys.

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Well if you dont bring the car to her then who will?

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My in-laws called other people they knew to break them out of rehab and get their cars, etc. Friends, neighbors, people from their church. Well-intentioned people who had no idea what they were enabling because the in-laws told them bunk.

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I have an aunt in South FL who is very aged, had the beginnings of dementia, terrible eyesight and had her sister co-piloting her on their driving adventures. Their car looked like it had been in a pin-ball machine. I went online and anonymously reported her as an unsafe driver. I provided her license # and gave specifics about why she is a danger. She received a letter from the DMV to come it to retake her eye exam at the facility. She didn't pass it. If she had IDK if they were going to give her a behind-the-wheel or not. Since your mom's in FL, you can do this, too. She'll never know she was reported.

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I got the help of mom’s neurologist and doctors after reports from mom’s sister and others. Mom had already wrecked one vehicle, swearing the brakes went out. Brakes checked out fine. We believe she hit the gas pedal rather than the brakes. She hit a utility truck, took out a carport and hit a fire hydrant that finally stopped her. Luckily she was only going about 20 mph. Her neurologist told her it was a legal liability once the ALZ diagnosis was confirmed and her doctor backed the neurologist. Mom’s had cataract surgery so her vision is near perfect, so I asked her optometrist just to say “please speak with your doctor about driving”. The car was parked in her garage for almost 2 years and I checked mileage frequently and saw she was still making short trips. Her car had several dings and scrapes but they were always “someone else’s fault”. It took a lot of talking but she finally let me sell her car when her car insurance became due. Of course I’m the bad guy now every time she remembers that, but at least she’s not going to hurt herself or others with a vehicle! (Speaking of being a POA, she needs to get her legal affairs in order. Being the POA is a very time consuming and mostly thankless job from my perspective and often makes you the bad guy when you act in their self interest.). Engage the help of her doctors, therapists, etc and make sure they are all saying the same thing. The fact that she’s been in memory care might be enough to stop the driving. You don’t have to be POA to reach out to all of her caregivers and doctors to voice your concerns and ask for a unified front. Nor do you have to participate in helping her get her car, renew her license, pay for insurance, etc.
It really does take a team and although you may not be able to obtain information FROM her doctors due to HIPPA, it shouldn’t stop you from providing information TO her entire team. I mail, email and fax so I have a paper trail. Luckily I’ve formed a great relationship with all of her doctors so we have frequent and informative communications.

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You are not her POA so, rather you're her decisions or not. there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

If she can pass the Drivers test then I say good for her.

Lots of bad drivers out there and many people drive til in their 90's.

I'm sure her Dr would have said something if he thought she shouldn't be driving.

If mom uses the car to go to the liquor store, so what, if she wants to drink, she can always order it.

If she gets a drink then no more driving for her.

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Most people do NOT drive into their 90s. Also, I have never ever heard of any other doctor telling their patient to stop driving. They fear online patient complaints that will affect their practice and reputation. I have had patients who are legally blind, and their ophthalmologist had not told them to stop driving even though that was in their records.

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Professional opinion here: All states have laws regarding return to driving after any medical incident that could impair the person. Contact the DMV and get a copy of your state law. You can find this online. Most states require that Mom pass a specific type of evaluation, performed by a licensed professional. This is NOT done by a driving school or at the DMV. It is done by a PT or OT, specifically trained and licensed to evaluate cognitive function, motor skills, speed of reflexes, and perform a behind-the-wheel evaluation. This will cost Mom $500-800 out-of-pocket (or more) depending on the state and the tests done. If they do the intake, cognitive tests, and speed of reflex testing and determine that she is not safe to return to drive, they will refund the balance and will not take her on the road. This process has an additional safeguard - they are legally required report findings to the DMV. If unqualified to drive her license is either suspended pending a re-evalution or revoked. If she does have her license revoked she will need to send it back to the DMV. In Maryland they will actually come pick it up if you don't send it in to exchange for a non-driving ID. She can get a new license when she is able to pass the evaluation. If Mom actually contacts a driving school, send them a copy of the law. They won't want the liability of getting her back on the road illegally. Finally, if she can pass the evaluation, then she is legally permitted to drive but in most states she will be required to re-test in one year. Any accidents will be cause for revocation of her license.

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Thanks for this excellent and timely information

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Would the ALF let her hop in the car and go back and forth at will? What if - conveniently - they don’t allow residents to drive or have a parking space for her car?

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Hi Upstream
It is amazing at what excellent care will do for those who have abused themselves for years.
This week I had a family member with mental issues gleefully call to report that a new “friend” had gifted her a car as long as she would drive him where he needed to go. I could hear him in the background sounding already inebriated. I can only imagine all the trouble this will bring as she also is an alcoholic and a free agent.
As you already know, you can’t control your mom. All you can do is not enable her in any way. You must have your reasons for not blocking her number and for continuing to help her manage her life.
Unless she reached some sort of epiphany while sober, I imagine she will be back to her old ways very soon.
I am happy that you have had this short reprieve from the madness.
I suspect all the professionals will deal with the person who appears before them as their job mandates. If mom shows up cognizant and sober, she will be processed accordingly.
Another poster’s mom was denied a license in one state and simply traveled to a second state to get her license renewed.
Wishing you and your DH a peaceful holiday season.

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Find out what the requirements in your state are as far as a Doctor's release to drive.
You could make a note to the doctor that you think it is unsafe for her to drive and you do not want him / her to sign off on it.
Can she afford to :
1. Keep the care at the facility? They may have fees that have to be paid.
2. Can she afford the up-keep? Can she afford gas? (I don't know about where you are but it has gotten pretty expensive) Can she fill her own tank? Can she afford the insurance?
IF she can not afford the cost of owning and driving the car she should not depend on you or other family to support it.
3. The biggie...can she pass the written and driving test at the DMV?
4. Can she safely get to the car and get into the car with a walker? (I say walker not cane because if she does go out I would imagine after a short while she would be tired and a little less steady so when going off campus she should take a walker not use a cane.)

If she does take a "test" with an independent evaluation from an instructor that gives an idea as to what might happen but it does not effect the written or driving test at the DMV, she could fail with a private instructor but pass with the State examiner.

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If she has a license the DMV will automatically renew her. Also, doctors won't act on a family's request to contact the DMV. The best they will do is make a note in their records so that if those records are reviewed they aren't liable. Doctors can't legally contact the DMV unless the patient asks them to. If Upstream can get medical records that prove Mom doesn't meet requirements for driving, she can submit those to the DMV and they will initiate a medical review board to decide if Mom will be allowed to renew her license or not. If Mom is independent legally and functionally, Upstream can't do much to stop her.

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Anyway you can stall on this till she has to renew? If the doctor has signed off on her vision, fine and well for that but its only the vision aspect. Maybe she can't pass the test. I see a lot of seniors whose cars have scratches and dents. Seems to be something I myself may have to deal with in the future. Liquor store and driving? Wow that is a big ole red flag. If she wants independence then you might say "well, you're on your own and I can't come over at the drop of a hat". You want your independence too. And the best place to have her independence at age 80 with some of her physical challenges is right where she is at, in her own apartment in an assisted living center. Since I am alone, seeing the center where my sister lives, I have already decided that it would be the best place for me to go, with my car, but with age related challenges.

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(Only child as well gah!)

I was fortunate that my mother now 85 took herself off the road three years ago....but of course that means I have to turn my life upside down (and I'm divorced) to take her to her numerous appointments and now deal with her broken hip. We drive her car and spend her gas money. That said, her license was up for renewal this year. We did renew it but she was not required to appear in person. She would not pass the eye exam, not does she see well enough to do a written exam. We kept the license only because you are required to show ID at doctor's offices...and getting an ID alone would have required a trip in to the SOS. I was going out of town and I asked her if she felt even able to drive a few miles to the pharmacy should she need an emergency prescription and she said no and that she was scared she would cause an accident.

I would report her as an unsafe driver...and simply not be available to help her renew her license. Come up with an excuse to miss the driving test and let her license lapse. A hard stop boundary "no"...she won't like it. If she figures out the logistics...you don't have POA and its not on you. Its always amazing when people say .... that old person shouldn't have been driving. Its not that easy to stop them. Don't play party to it.

I had a friend who once mentioned his mother had memory issues and was still driving...but "only to church which is close". I asked him what would happen if she forgot her way, got lost, had an accident etc. He couldn't figure out how to get her to stop. Pull a spark plug dude and then tow it away because it didn't run. Tell her the mechanic said is wasn't fixable. He took my advice after he showed up one day to find her burning mail that shouldn't be tossed without removing identifying info.....in her kitchen sink.

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It appears that your mother is an alcoholic. Alcohol abusers can get really sick when they drink. After a prolonged abstinence the physical health may improve.
If she has a valid driving license and has no medical restrictions for driving, there is nothing you can do to stop her from driving. If she is addicted to alcohol, she will likely start drinking again and will get sick like before. Hopefully, she will fail her next driving test for her license renewal, before she gets into a bad accident.

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It's extremely tough to get people to give up their wheels. They can put up a very good front with doctors and might even pass the driving test. If she has a trusted primary doctor, you can appeal to him/her to speak to your mom. At least it's someone else telling her besides you.

Also, I learned that if a person with dementia causes an accident, their insurance company can refuse to pay. Maybe this will make an impression on your mom?

Bottom line is, I agree with others who have said if you're in possession of her car right now, don't bring it to her. Flatten a tire, "lose" the keys, whatever.

I feel for you. This is the biggest struggle I faced with my husband. He finally agreed not to drive and replaced his drivers license with a State ID card that looks nearly the same. It was a huge relief!

Bless you. Hang in there. It will eventually get better.

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Take the keys and sell her car. It’s hard but you have no choice. She could kill someone

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Under NO circumstances allow her to drive - DISASTER. Talk to the doctor for possible help. Contact Motor Vehicle for help in stopping her. Disable the car and make it so it does not work or turn on or "needs major repairs" to stall. Also contact the driving school and be sure you have Power of Attorney so you can "control" what she can and can't do. And let the facility know she is not under any circumstances to drive or get her car back. If need be, talk with an eldercare attorney for advice. Now I do have one piece of advice and YOU MUST MAKE SURE THIS IS DONE......If anyone's car is taken away, no matter the reason, YOU MUST ASSURE THEM THAT SOMEONE WILL BE AVAILABLE TO TAKE THEM WHERE THEY NEED TO GO IF IT IS NECESSARY. That is only fair, just and reasonable. YOU CANNOT TAKE SOMETHING AWAY FROM SOMEONE WITHOUT REPLACING IT SO THE PROBLEM IS HANDLED. This would help so much - think how you would feel if YOUR means of getting around were taken away. I am 88 and 100% high functioning and drive (safely) even though I am handicapped. For me to give up my car (or my kitty) would make me dig a deep hole at once and say good bye. This is part of who I am and how I live a normal life living in a facility. But everyone knows I am with it in every way and no one bothers me,

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Here's food for thought,( no pun) A women in a local suburb near me drove to a restaurant she usually goes to every day for lunch. This time when she was going to park, she did the "hit the gas instead of the brake" and took out the outside eating area as well as the front of the restaurant (bar); this was all caught on video.

She is 74 years old.

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The laws vary from state to state. Here in NV they won't take reports from individuals into account. It HAS to come from medical. We had been explaining he was still driving to his PCP and he was going to arrange for the simulated driving test but FIL was hospitalized again. The Hospital Doctor was informed he was still driving and immediately sent a revocation to the DMV. We verified his license was no longer valid while still hospitalized so we moved his car to our home. When he brings up his license we tell him to talk to his PCP about doing the simulated test. He forgets to bring it up each time. I would recommend talking to your states Agency for Aging and see what you can do in your area.

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Upstream: Imho, the auto should be disabled by any means possible, e.g. then you can say "Mom, the auto no longer works," et al; this would ensure that she can't secure alcohol. However, don't put it past her to get it in some form or fashion as those with a stubborn habit will go to the ends of the earth to obtain it.

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This is a good. There are quite a few ways to safely disable a car.

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I have huge regrets for not trying harder to disable my fathers car when he was alive. He was a horribly stubborn nasty man and drove to the bank one day and drove from PA. to DE and then to MD. We called every hospital , the police, it was so frightening.( I was able to track him by stops he made using his debit card for fuel and snacks) He had my mother with him. She is incontinent and peed in the car seat. 24 hours later they returned. The police told us to take away his keys. Dad refused to hand them over. We flattened his tires. But he had an air compressor and aired them up again. After several months the DMV was going to finally pull his license, and two weeks before, he had a massive stroke and passed away. But in retrospect, we should have driven that car away and forced him to stop driving. Mom said he was driving on the wrong side of the road once. If he had killed our mother, or a car full of children, I would never have forgiven myself for not having tried harder to disable that car.

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I was blessed. When my mother and I went anywhere together from the time I had my drivers' permit, I drove. When she got sick, she was patient for me to take her. She never wanted much at that time. I think I'll be the same way because I have no unusual attachment to my car. I'll just need a chauffeur for my necessary errands.

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Driving...how do you make it stop?

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