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From what a lawyer told me, you cannot take someone's property or remove items that are their from their house until they die and the estate is settled. I might be wrong on that but it would make sense.
Unfortunately my sister has POA. I do not know if my sister will let my nephew get away with this or not. He is planning to move to another state and I am really anxious about this now. He still has a long list of things he has to do for my sister before he leaves and she is the one giving him enough money so he can move. He has had this list of projects for months but just laid around all fall and winter. He has previously left her home without finishing projects that she had asked him to do, but never took property.
When I questioned him about it in front of my sister, he acted like he did not remember that she had that piano - how could he miss it, it was right in the middle of the living room, a beautiful rosewood upright electric piano. And I remember him taking it apart so he could fit it into his car to move it over to my sister's house when mom had to go to the nursing home. He is into music and electric pianos and I am really afraid on this one. Anyway, mom is asking about the piano, technically it is her property until she dies, then it was supposed to go to me. We are a family of musicians, I guess it figures we would have an argument over a keyboard, but I hate for my nephew to leave with my mom mad at him and me having to explain it away to her when I visit her in the nursing home.
Well, I cannot find the pictures of the piano right off. They might have been in a box of pictures that got put in the wrong place in the garage and got water damage. This is just one more item missing after having moved mom to the nursing home and me over to my sister's house - cords for my computer, etc. Only this item is bigger and more expensive, plus mom has hear heart attached to that piano, she was a concert pianist. I guess that only thing I can do is get people who visited her and saw and heard me play that piano in her apartment to witness that she had it.
If my sister has POA, does she have the authority to just give away mom's stuff? I know she did not give the piano away, but she is not wanting to save all this stuff I am going through in the garage. What about the four wardrobers full of her clothes? I am tripping over them in my room.
Anyway, this is really going to be hard to explain away to my mom.
When a member of the family goes into a NH, many of the relatives assume they aren't coming back so they have no need of their worldly possessions. And the faster the individual's health deteriorates, the quicker they are to divvy up, steal, or get rid of what he/she apparently has no use for. ... Vultures!
I agree with Crowe here. If you take something without permission and written consent (a will), it's stealing. I suggest you tell the individual in the NH that you'll look for what they are asking for. If you can't find it and it does exist, ask whoever "borrowed" it what they did with it and if he/she still has it to return it immediately. No offense, but that goes for you too.
When you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. It might hurt the individual in the NH a little, but he/she might forgive or make him/herself believe someone else put their property to good use. ... And please don't tell him/her the property in question is a figment of the imagination, that it only exists in his/her head, or that he/she is hallucinating. The elderly might be cluttery at times, but there's a method to their madness. Their possessions might not be considered valuable, but the memories attached to them are priceless. Taking them without their permission is, then, an unforgivable affront -- especially if it's done by a close family member.
My mom has a living trust. There are only two things I've always asked for that belonged to my mom. One she has a desk that belonged to her from the 6th grade, two she has a (copper lined, very rare) smoking stand that she gave to my grandpa when she was a young girl. I've always asked for those two things and only those two things and my mom has agreed to let me have them, when she goes. I want nothing else, nothing just those 2 things and only those two things for sentimental value.
Now are you saying that unless those two things are itemized in the will/trust that I won't get them.
What bothers me is how could my nephew say he doesn't remember the piano or taking it apart and moving it over to my sister's house. He insisted on moving a lot of the things over to my sister's in his car, claiming that it would save money on the professional mover's charges. Since my sister is POA and she is my nephew's mother, I guess I will just have to leave it up to her to do the disciplining of my nephew and make the decision on whether or not to press the issue any further. I just hope it is my nephew that goes over to explain to grandma why her piano is missing, not me. I am tired of having to explain things away and make excuses for everybody.
I might as well drop this whole thing now anyway. I don't know how I would be able to prove that he stole it and he claims he does not remember the piano that Grandma had, even though I did see him pack it up into his car when we moved. I asked him about it after we got moved and he said it was down in the basement (his room). Neither me or my sister gave him permission to take it down into the basement.
It would only make problems for my sister if I pursue this further. My nephew has no money to be able to make restitution anyway and they would look to my sister (his mom) to pay for it. I have caused her enough trouble already. A couple of weeks ago I accidentally left the back door on the car open and she backed out the next morning and hit the garage door and now the door is all banged up and won't close. Unfortuantely I do not drive and I don't have any liability insurance.
I am still very concerned about what to tell mom. I know she would probably call the police and make a big deal out of it if she knew it was missing. If I tell her we still have it, it is a lie and sooner or later if you lie it will catch up with you later, I can't lie to mom about her piano.
Anyway this whole move when we moved mom to the nursing home and me into my sister's house was done all wrong anyway. Multiple car trips to bring things over a little at a time with my nephew doing the driving, and then ended up we had to hire professional movers to get the stuff moved out at the end of the month with me paying for it.
I'm wondering why you would have to tell her that the piano is missing. I mean, if she asked about it, couldn't you just say that it was fine ? As far as your nephew, if you really think he took it then I would go to your sister and ask her to look through his property with you before he leaves. If she says no, then I would call the police and let them handle it. I'm sure you don't want to lie to your mother, but wouldn't it be in her best interest that she not hear about the piano being missing ? You're in a really tough situation and I wish you the best in getting through it. Take care
I'm just going to let my sister handle this one, I know she wants my nephew to do a lot of things before he can ever leave, one of which is setting up grandma's piano. She is really admant that she is the one that will do the disciplining of her children. However, he is not a child anymore, 30 years old and should get in trouble with the police just like an adult would. He has done stuff like this before, but never such a large expensive item. At this point I do not want to rock the boat on this, I am just lucky to have a home and a place to stay now, with mom in the nursing home and my finances in ruins from mom's demands while I was caring for her.
Everything has turned out okay now, after his mom yelling at him several times, he did bring it upstairs and put it back together. However, my nephew's and my sister's response to this whole thing has really turned me off, because of his casual, offhand response when I first asked about it. Anyway, I will never ever ask again where any of my mom's things are because it caused so much discord in my family. And meanwhile I am the one that has to deal with mom, I am the one who visits her every day.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Do you have proof?
I assume you are the person with the POA?
Do you have a copy of her will?
From what a lawyer told me, you cannot take someone's property or remove items that are their from their house until they die and the estate is settled. I might be wrong on that but it would make sense.
When I questioned him about it in front of my sister, he acted like he did not remember that she had that piano - how could he miss it, it was right in the middle of the living room, a beautiful rosewood upright electric piano. And I remember him taking it apart so he could fit it into his car to move it over to my sister's house when mom had to go to the nursing home. He is into music and electric pianos and I am really afraid on this one. Anyway, mom is asking about the piano, technically it is her property until she dies, then it was supposed to go to me. We are a family of musicians, I guess it figures we would have an argument over a keyboard, but I hate for my nephew to leave with my mom mad at him and me having to explain it away to her when I visit her in the nursing home.
If my sister has POA, does she have the authority to just give away mom's stuff? I know she did not give the piano away, but she is not wanting to save all this stuff I am going through in the garage. What about the four wardrobers full of her clothes? I am tripping over them in my room.
Anyway, this is really going to be hard to explain away to my mom.
When a member of the family goes into a NH, many of the relatives assume they aren't coming back so they have no need of their worldly possessions. And the faster the individual's health deteriorates, the quicker they are to divvy up, steal, or get rid of what he/she apparently has no use for. ... Vultures!
I agree with Crowe here. If you take something without permission and written consent (a will), it's stealing. I suggest you tell the individual in the NH that you'll look for what they are asking for. If you can't find it and it does exist, ask whoever "borrowed" it what they did with it and if he/she still has it to return it immediately. No offense, but that goes for you too.
When you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. It might hurt the individual in the NH a little, but he/she might forgive or make him/herself believe someone else put their property to good use. ... And please don't tell him/her the property in question is a figment of the imagination, that it only exists in his/her head, or that he/she is hallucinating. The elderly might be cluttery at times, but there's a method to their madness. Their possessions might not be considered valuable, but the memories attached to them are priceless. Taking them without their permission is, then, an unforgivable affront -- especially if it's done by a close family member.
Always at your service,
-- ED
My mom has a living trust. There are only two things I've always asked for that belonged to my mom. One she has a desk that belonged to her from the 6th grade, two she has a (copper lined, very rare) smoking stand that she gave to my grandpa when she was a young girl. I've always asked for those two things and only those two things and my mom has agreed to let me have them, when she goes. I want nothing else, nothing just those 2 things and only those two things for sentimental value.
Now are you saying that unless those two things are itemized in the will/trust that I won't get them.
It would only make problems for my sister if I pursue this further. My nephew has no money to be able to make restitution anyway and they would look to my sister (his mom) to pay for it. I have caused her enough trouble already. A couple of weeks ago I accidentally left the back door on the car open and she backed out the next morning and hit the garage door and now the door is all banged up and won't close. Unfortuantely I do not drive and I don't have any liability insurance.
I am still very concerned about what to tell mom. I know she would probably call the police and make a big deal out of it if she knew it was missing. If I tell her we still have it, it is a lie and sooner or later if you lie it will catch up with you later, I can't lie to mom about her piano.
Anyway this whole move when we moved mom to the nursing home and me into my sister's house was done all wrong anyway. Multiple car trips to bring things over a little at a time with my nephew doing the driving, and then ended up we had to hire professional movers to get the stuff moved out at the end of the month with me paying for it.