20 years ago I took my mother in age 63, my father had passed away. Parents had rented their entire lives, mother never emotionally available as had 8 kids and no time. I have come to realize I am a people pleaser and consequently my biggest flaw.
Been with partner since age 17 (31 years, married for 20). Relocated to a regional area (where she and some siblings lived) built a granny flat for her as my mum had a horse. Husband and I have three teenage sons, our marriage had declined over the years due to my mother still living on the property, husband not happy, drinking with depression etc. We talked about separation at times but both knew it was from stress and allowed the daily slug to break us.
My mother isn’t the brightest person and laughs at inappropriately at times, she has never driven, is horse obsessed and has no friends. However, she seems content with her daily routine and lives to socialize with her daughters and our lives. One sister takes her shopping fortnightly, the others visit maybe monthly and one never but happy to have mum dropped at her place (by myself). I had to listen to my mother daily about anything and everything and it was exhausting at times but I felt trapped as to what to do with her. 20 years has passed, I am now 49.
This is where it gets awful. My husband and mum would have run ins outside, usually about farm stuff, she couldn't be told and liked to argue back. He was unfair at times, but she didn't always respect our space and I had to spell it out to her. She lived with very cheap rent, free electricity, mowed lawns etc. and had her horse right next to her flat.
I came home from work 6 months ago to husband and sons telling me dad had a run in with nan and husband telling me he just doesn't care anymore. She is 83, no medications, takes walks and cares for herself. We are also mindful of her age and conflict was not frequent. She needed help in lots of tasks, Drs appts (she rarely went and was suspicious of most Drs and dentists) she would miss information and doesn't listen very well, she laughs a lot, even when it's not suitable to laugh. We always just said to each other, that's mum and looking back she has always been this way and we all just accept her.
Following this dispute I go to check on her and have a chat (I am feeling drained), she admits she was attempting to lunge her horse on a patch close to the road. She has not ridden this horse in two years and can't let go, she then tells she should tell me something about my husband. I am gobsmacked as to what she's talking about? She tries to withdraw her statement but I insist she continues. She claims my husband had been visiting her place and making silly comments in a sexual nature towards her on and off for years. I felt like vomiting, she tells me she told one of my sisters that lives closest. Nothing was ever said as mum swore everyone to secrecy and controlled the situation. Although nothing ever actually happened these allegations immediately haunted me. I went straight to the house and asked my husband straight up what she told me (she followed me tried to stop me). He was furious and very angry, he said she had one week to get out. This was very stressful for me, I begged family to come and take her for the weekend, and no one came. There is no red flags for me, mum laughed at my husband’s jokes and enjoyed his company. I hit rock bottom that week. Soon discover all sisters knew and did or said nothing? Then a video comes out, it was from 5 yrs. ago, I had asked her to mind our new puppy (boy’s first dog). Husband kept this from me and claims he didn't know what to do so did nothing. Boys had left their camera on as they were constantly filming their puppy. During this hell week my distraught husband gives me the mentioned footage, I watch it with her for the first time. She masturbates on my lounge and offers our puppy her hand three times, then battery goes flat. We had her out, sold the property and sadly went our own way.
So good of you to come and update us on your progress.
I am so glad you are seeking medical help and medication again with medicine that has in the past helped you.
I have a daughter who has had to deal with chronic clinical depression lifelong with an anxiety component to it to boot. She's my hero. At age 61, and since menopause, she has been better and has not needed medications, but during her lifetime it was a matter of her recognizing when she needed that bridge of medication to get her over rough waters. No one knows more than you the side effects involved, but it is sometimes NEEDED and you are SO RIGHT in your saying that at least you FELT the feelings, and are reassured by that.
It sounds to me like things are tough and yes, they are bound to be.
Keep on keeping on and hope you'll update us again.
Thank you for the update--please keep them coming.
Have you seen your sons at all?
(((Hugs)))
Your "menfolk" didn't want you on an AD,? They are doctors?
Are you seeing a psychiatrist?
Do you have a talk therapist?
I got divorced at 49 (I'm now 70).
Ex and I each bought coops. My mortgage will be paid off when I'm 90.(I've refi'ed several times).
DH sold coop and bought a large-ish house, bigger than the one we had when we were married. I have no ideas how many years he has left on his
My point is that mortgage debt is "good" debt. You're buying a place to live. As long as you can afford your mortgage on your salary and are saving for retirement such that you can continue to afford it, you'll be fine. Otherwise, you sell when you retire and downsize.
www.Bogleheads.org is a good place to learn how to think about money in a more sophisticated way.
You sound deeply mired in a depressive, hopeless way of thinking about life. Things are not going to change until you get yourself treatment for that.
Your mortgage advice was excellent and useful, thank you.
I know that treating the depression will assist me moving forwards. I am definitely perimenopause so I will explore those options of treatment a bit further for my symptoms.
I don't see where your DH did anything wrong, except stand up for himself when your mother told lies about him.
I don't get why you feel betrayed by HIM. Your mentally ill mom, your sisters who conspire not to see anything off about mom's behavior, yes. But did DH do? What am I missing?
You would know better than me .
Could OP ( not realize it but ) be fearing what her family would think of her if she went back with her husband ?
She still seems upset that her siblings believe the lies . I think she still cares what her siblings think of her .
The only thing DH did was not tell her about the sick video with the puppy until the you know what hit the fan. He did explain that he didn’t know what to do about it. I don’t see that as a betrayal .
First get this fixated delusion out of your mind that your husband betrayed you. He did not.
Give up any legal responsibilities towards this woman. If need be, let her become a ward of the state. She did not plan for her retirement and looked to you for her financial support and somebody to abuse when she felt like it. The abuse hurts and this is what you are feeling. You feel betrayed by your family. Do not give up your husband and your children to appease this woman. Spend time with your husband. Anyone drunk or sober who puts up with a lying and scheming mother in law for twenty years deserves a gold medal.
People's bizarre behaviors are hard to deal with. Can you believe that maybe your husband was shocked and disgusted over your mother's behavior, and didn't know how to approach you about it.
Your siblings know their mother and her behavior. They didn't tell you anything because it wasn't worth it and maybe it was so crazy that they chose to sweep it under the rug. I think they were afraid of having the tables turn on them next, so they kept quiet about it.
Your mother sounds like a narcissist in full blast.
Please talk to your husband. Deal with your pain. Don't ruin the rest of your lives together over your mother's nonsense.
Mother is pitting the children against each other . My narc mother did that and ruined the family .
I’d like to add that , the husband still wanted to try to work it out , and didn’t run after 20 years of moms crap.
Sounds like a good guy to me.
Magdol,
I’m speaking from experience .
Stop putting your mom and her nonsense first , which is what you are still doing .
Say screw her nonsense , you aren’t going to let it ruin your life .
Put your marriage and kids first .
Are you thinking that your husband "came on" to mom and that mom told sisters and they believed her?
Or is it more likely that your very strange and inappropriately sexual mother made this all up and your sisters ignored because they know how wacky your mom is?
If I had a choice about who to believe, I'm in favor of DH. Maybe you guys deserve a fresh start.
OP ,
Have you thought about how your husband feels ?
You stated yourself that having your mom on the property for 20 years caused the decline of your marriage and had your husband depressed and drinking . Your mother and her lies were the problem .
You are fortunate your husband stuck around as long as he did and even extended the olive branch to you to try to get back together. He’s the one your mother lied about , not you . Maybe try to be in his shoes .
You being a people pleaser ( towards your mother) and allowing this circus on your property to continue for 20 years set up this explosion , yet you feel the one betrayed . Mom should have been kicked out years ago . Own that , get some therapy , forgive yourself for allowing Mom to stay so long , and move on .
I feel bad for your husband , he’s the one who stuck around for 20 years while your mother was put ahead of your marriage and lost everything , yet he’s still willing to try to work it out . You don’t realize how rare that is .
And please don't feel, as you said, that "the world is out to get you." It's not. There are many who've experienced set-backs or family betrays...I've definitely experienced my own family betrayals - and yes, it's an indescribable feeling that takes a lot of time to sort thru and come to terms with...so you're not alone in this. But, time helps - and do what you can to get stronger and heal.
And I don't see at all that your ex-husband did anything wrong - if you live near him, since you said he's all alone on his birthday, maybe it'd be nice to take him out to celebrate it (even as friends)!
Long ago I went to give some simple management advice to a group who had been ‘supported’ by a social worker. She told them that they could ‘develop’ a petty cash system themselves by discussion! They shortly told her that they no longer needed her ‘help’. She told the boss (employed by the local council) that the group had ‘matured’ because of her support, and could now stand alone. Oh really? They said she was useless. I sat in on a couple of social work ‘community development’ lectures locally, and came out thinking that it was out of touch with anything except the lecturer’s ideas.
Once you feel like you have expressed the problems that you have lived through, I suggest you quit counseling and keep the money in your pocket. Don’t let the sessions bring it all up again, over and over again. Focus on the future.
Yours, Margaret
Anyway, your first priority is to yourself and getting your life back on track. Next, you mentioned your husband's drinking. In AA, they teach that drinking is a choice. Sure, stressors may make the drinking worse, but the responsibility of sobriety rests with the drinker alone. It is your exe's responsibility to decide if he wants to stop drinking or not. Alcoholism places a burden on the entire family. You definitely had your hands full with your nutcase mother and an alcoholic husband while trying to navigate life. There is a program called Al-Anon that is for families and friends of people who drink. They have online meetings as well as in person meetings. I found these meetings extremely helpful. I attended in person meetings when they were in my area.
As for your mother and her bizarre sexual behaviors, that would have been enough to have her exited from the premises. It doesn't sound like dementia or any other mental illness since she was fully aware of her actions. This makes a big difference. Telling a bald faced lie on your husband was also terrible thing to do. Her actions towards you and your family has not been loving at all. She has been using you and at the same time stabbing all of you in the back. People want to label people's behavior as personality disordered, mentally ill or having dementia. I'm here to tell you that there are some people in the world that are just plain evil and have evil intentions for everyone. I don't try to analyze why they are a certain way or what made them turn that way. Only God can judge. However, we are not obligated to these folks no matter how close in relation to us to take them on, provide a place for them and care for them financially. No one wins when dealing with an abusive and manipulative individual. Keep your mother away from your family and marriage. I'm hoping for the restoration of your marriage and family.
Also, before we start jumping in to help anyone, we have to decide if this person is worth the risk to our mental, emotional, spiritual, financial, marital relationship, and children.
PEACE
In your initial post, you identify your mother's presence as the biggest stressor on your marriage.
In her absence, I hope perhaps you and DH can find your way back to some joy and friendship, if not love and intimacy.
I think your mother is lying about any "involvement" with your DH. I think it has been her aim to drive a wedge between you two from the start. She is a sick puppy and you deserved a better mother.
Move on and heal. As Margaret says, you now have a worldwide group of friends!
Please never be tempted back into the mother-care quicksand. No matter what, any crisis with your mother is for your siblings to handle.
You have been damaged so much by your mother. In reading through your responses, I think you are doing all the right things to heal. I hope that you and your H can reconcile, because it seems that you both really want to do that.
Please keep us updated. We care.
I read the bit about your mother wanting YOU to apologise. My guess is that her take on this is “It’s been just a bit of fun, no damage was done, you are just over-the-top sensitive”. Is this more-or-less her attitude? It’s not ‘mental illness’, which is an easy cop-out diagnosis. The line might go down OK with other family members, who have watched your life fall apart over it, and who weren’t the ones really involved.
I am pretty sure that I read that you were married at age 17 – very young. I think it might be worth considering your childhood again. I’m not suggesting that your mother was a sex worker, although it is quite possible – there are a lot of them, and they get older and eventually find a different way to make money! Perhaps there were a lot of ‘uncles’ to close your eyes to, or even sexual abuse. At 17, there’s a chance that you were getting away from something, as well as being in love. If there is something there in the past that you ‘were getting away from’, it might help to explain why it has been so devastating to find out that it has followed you (and is sunbathing in its underwear).
I’m not saying that you have reacted wrongly. But it is really worthwhile making sure that your dreadful mother doesn’t ruin your life in the future. See if you can focus on what will make YOU happy from now on, not what has gone wrong in the past. And look after your husband as best you can. It has ruined HIS life too.
Very best wishes, Margaret
I am slowly coming to the realisation I have a life to live and three teenage sons, she has lived hers and no more harm will be done. I always felt trapped that she is old now and more then ever needs my support. Well, no more, I AM DONE! The other siblings can care for her, and there are plenty of them. Earlier this year, I decorated and painted her granny flat (on our property) hedged and tidied all her gardens, regularly took her shopping and other little outings. Yet, she tells my sisters I never really visited her and she didn't see me much. I seen my ex today, he spent a little time at my place helping with a few issues. It honestly felt weird, it was hard to focus on him. However, we sat and talked a little. I am cautious as him being with me will constantly remind him of our terrible experience. He also wants nothing to do with my sisters ever again, I do understand this but it's another hurdle. I only speak to two of them (there's five girls inc me), although we were all quite close my M has torn us apart and she can't see this. My brothers vary in their opinions, one doesn't want anything to do with the matter and one backs me. Being one of eight children in this matter is exhausting. This is why I have had to cut some siblings off, too much input and too many opinions.
I forget to mention my mother in law has played a significant role in my life, she has been a mother figure to me since age 17. She continues to support me, she is a switched on and treats me like a daughter.
I clearly have a healing journey ahead of me, I am very unsure about life in general. I will continue to push forward, I MUST.
Her behavior is absolutely disgusting and I would bet my life that your husband is as disgusted by her as you are. Maybe even more. You're my age, my dear. Your man did not come on to your elderly mother.
You know, I actually hope she has dementia and doesn't realize what she's saying because to say such a thing about her son-in-law is evil and no mistake.
Get her off your property at once and for God's sake, give your marriage a fair chance.
I don't know you personally or your husband, but if he's been putting up with your mother for the last 20 years, you've got yourself a good man.
So don't throw him out to the garbage to keep your mother around who clearly has no respect for you, your family, or herself.
Get her away from you and your family.
This is an idea but I am just so unsure about everything. I hoper the thoughts in my mind and anxiety in my body will one day leave me alone? I hope I am not damaged for years to come.
Sorry you are going through this. Starting over is difficult, but it should not be the reason you get back together with your husband. You get back together because you love him, you both respect each other and enjoy spending time together. Don't make it about money or loneliness. As far as the impotence goes, has he been to a doctor about that? Is this issue an issue for you? Therapy should help you figure out what you are looking for in a relationship with our ex. That can be the good part of starting over. You can make it about what you want in order to be happy. Your situation has been going on for so long it could take a while to figure that out.
Related to your dark thoughts, maybe check in with your doctor about that and the meds you are on. Are you getting any exercise?
Best of luck!
Dark thoughts have lessened since going off setraline. Taking magnesium glycinate, fish oil and ashwagandha. I work in a pharmacy so have an idea about supplements.
Since I cannot decide what to do, I continue to do nothing. The longer I do this, the more I find myself drifting away.
My own DH and I talked about this, and my DH’s feeling was that your own husband is getting the short straw. He put up with whatever was going on, almost certainly to spare your feelings and keep your marriage together. He wants to get back together, and so do you. It’s sensible financially, and also emotionally. At this point perhaps you don’t worry too much about the other family members, and just focus on building bridges with your husband.
It’s hard to put something this major out of your mind, but for your own sake and his, try hard!
I was fortunate to have a very patient husband during years of wild caregiving of my parents and dealing with verbal crap from my ridiculous siblings . My parents are gone . The family is broken , I only bother with one sibling. The others all went separate ways. But my husband is still with me. Think about that. You are married to your husband not the other members of your family . Try marriage counseling .
My mother even said to me she never lead him on. However, reflecting back she is a bit of an exhibitionist and always has been. He told me she was once seen sitting in the sun in just undies, she is obsessed with a suntan, being thin and her appearance (she had bullimia as a teenager).
I asked her about this and she did not deny it. I told her she doesn't live alone and this is unacceptable. She didn't care or really understand. I have learned her priority is her health and was her horse. Only emotion she ever showed was with these two matters.
I know I am looping, I feel I can't be with anyone and struggle to support myself. On the other side, when I talk with my husband (ex) I find a sense of calm. I have feelings for him but I know they are buried as all I see and hear are her words and images.
I desperately want it all to fade away but I know this is impossible. Feeling very lonely today.
1) You can’t control your mother. You can’t stop her asking after you, or discussing ‘your boys and their Dad’. Telling her to stop, and then having it continue, gives you just one more thing to be angry about. You need to ignore her, difficult as that my be.
2) It might be worth considering what YOU would have done if you were getting such difficult information about another family member. Would you have gone to tell what was happening? Even if you didn’t know how much was true, and did know that the information would be very very upsetting? If there was a consensus to keep it quiet, would YOU have gone along with it? Would YOU have viewed yourself keeping quiet as ‘a betrayal’? If you have to think twice about this, it might help you to feel less bitter about the other family members who knew. What they didn’t know was ‘what to do’.
3) Remember that the excrement hit the fan when your husband finally told you what was happening. Perhaps he now thinks he should have just kept quiet indefinitely. It really DID ruin YOUR life. Does that explain why the information was suppressed earlier? Did the other family members take their cue from him? Are they saying “What was I supposed to do?”. Are they now blaming him?
4) Of course some of them believed it – the fact that your mother was coming on to your husband was true! They just didn’t know all the details of what was and was not happening.
5) Remember who is the basic problem here. Your mother. The other family members were in a difficult/ impossible situation. In addition, she was also THEIR mother/ MIL. Fundamentally it was only affecting your husband, and his cue was to ignore it. M was settled living with you and her horse, and I’m sure they didn’t want either her or her horse dropped on them. You all need sympathy for surviving so many years on a volcano.
Perhaps you can raise some of these things with your counselor, to help you get through this awful experience. Think about other people with different but equally devastating problems – like find that a loved partner has been sexually abusing their children – and how they put their own lives back together. Your situation is very unusual, but you need to find ways to cope.
My very best wishes, Margaret
A big part of me wants to rekindle with my husband (he does to) but the saying mud sticks is ringing true. My female siblings came to believe her, although they struggled to believe what they were being told or heard.
I feel haunted by her allegations after spending 20 years living alongside her.
The allegations are making it hard for me to move forward with a physical relationship with my husband.
She claims he tried to touch her leg or breast on separate occasions. These allegations I am told were maybe twice yearly and are so out there in context they are ridiculously hard to believe. However, she was able to spoon feed two of my sisters to absolute secrecy for many, many years. I am/was close to them so naturally feel extremely betrayed.
I have managed to purchase my own place, even though I now have a 30 year mortgage and love week to week. Single income and separation is financially crippling. Husband is about to purchase and is financially in exact same position of struggling.
I just don't know what to do... He would resume the relationship with counselling. I just feel we will be reminded of the trauma forever if being together. Again, men seem to let stuff go easer, I am just digging a deeper hole.
Everyone thought my MIL was a sweet lady. She wasn't when she did not get her way. Knew a lady who lived near her as a child and told me "never liked ur MIL, she was nasty". And I think as time went on, people found this out.
I am so sorry this has happened to you. Therapy will help. Keeping that journal and writing ur thoughts will help.
I would like to say you were raised by a woman who is mentally ill. That is a limitation of hers that makes her unable to be a good family member, and it's a tragedy when you are assigned such a person as "mother". She raised you to try to please her, and you have stayed in that role right along, trying so hard that you were willing to risk all the good things that came into your life to take care of her. You took her in at age 63. My own DAUGHTER is 61, so you can imagine my age, and we are BOTH living independent and whole lives.
So whatever the story is, you lived it. Time to move it from "is" to "was".
The only thing I can tell you is that you now need professional help so that you don't spend another lifetime living the grieving of it.
You are still young. You an still have a full life. It is time to get off the habitual old paths and form a quality life in which you celebrate yourself, develop hobbies that sustain you, contribute to others in a way to help others and give you self esteem.
It is time to stop looking back. Time to look forward. It will take hard work, and more courage than you can begin right now to manage, but it will be done step by step and hopefully with guidance. You deserve this.
"Who does this to their daughter and abuses their trust like this.?"
The answer is complicated and probably not productive to invest much time in pondering.
But possibly:
Someone with severe mental illness
Someone sexually molested as a child.
Someone with no capacity to form relationships.
Someone who only thinks about what they want (i.e., extreme narcissism).
Someone with no moral compass.
These are overlapping categories.
As to your siblings, it seems like they, like you, simply accepted mom's claims as part of her usual craziness and didn't bother themselves about it. After all, to tell you might mean THEY might have to provide care for "crazy mom".
You have much to rebuild; don't get bogged down in the "whys" and "what ifs"
(((Hugs))))
Be kind to yourself! In addition to therapy/counselling, consider using a journal as a vehicle to release some of the pain and anger.
I noticed that you write most of your post in the present tense. That feels to me like this is trauma you are still experiencing.
Maybe writing it out for yourself in the past tense is one way to beging to put this behind you.
Your mother sounds like a very ill/disordered person, possibly with a history of being abused as a child. She is not the mother you needed, or deserved.
(((Hugs))) and good wishes in your journey towards wholeness
People don't always get the parents they need.
Sometimes we give too much, for too long.
But we can change.
We can acknowledge the past & but stay determined to aim for the future.
We learn to grow again.
That leaves you with your distress with your husband and the others in the family who knew what was going on. Your husband probably didn’t care. She couldn’t push him into actual sex, and it doesn’t sound like that happened. Millions of men watch adult films, and this was probably more or less a living porn film. Millions of women forgive the the pornography watchers! And you can choose to forgive him too, if you can.
The others in the family probably didn’t know what and whether to believe. You can think that they should have warned you, and they probably should – if they thought there was anything in it. They might have thought that being told anything about it would just upset you for nothing. Or they might have thought it was a bad joke, this old lady acting like a prostitute. I am sure that knowing this was all going on behind your back is very very upsetting. One thing, do you know about your mother’s early sex life? I had a school friend who was devastated to find out that her grandmother had been a prostitute in her late teens and twenties, and started talking to her about the details. Most sex workers grow older, and some regress as they get older.
It’s taken you a while to write to us about this, and perhaps you can do it now because you are getting past the worst of the pain. Well done for doing your best to stay on good terms with your husband (or ex-) and looking after your sons. It may be that you can get back on reasonable terms with everyone else involved (excluding mother – that really would be too hard). You can slowly get your life back if you want to do that. I don’t normally have a lot of time for counselors, but this might be one situation where one could help. You may need the opportunity to talk it all out before you can let it go.
Best wishes for trying to get the best parts of your life back again. Love, Margaret
It sounds to me as though there is extreme dysfunction and mental illness in play.
Going to therapy is almost certainly the place to start to heal.
Life is a journey enough, without drama. My suggestion: Strive to create a life that supports you, and stay far away from trying to control others. It may be lonely for a while. But everything changes - the one thing we CAN count on.
Best wishes.