Follow
Share

My mom is 87, in a wheelchair and still wants to stay in her home and live alone. She will not come and live with me or go to an assisted living. I’m afraid she will fall. She has a medical alert but will not wear it. She’s blind in one eye and can’t see well out of the other. Social Services have been out and said as long as she understands the danger, there’s nothing they can do to make her leave. Can I get a POA without her consent? I’ve considered Home Health. She doesn’t want anyone in her house because she has cats and the urine/feces is a mess. Right now my sis and I are taking turns cleaning that mess every day.I need some advice. It’s so unsanitary.

Find Care & Housing
No you can not get POA without her consent .
If Mom was deemed incompetent you could seek guardianship . However many elders refuse to go for cognitive testing . You could call APS , sometimes it takes more than one visit , you could also try Mom’s County Area of Aging to see if they would recommend and assist with placement .

If Mom ends up in the hospital , you could speak to the doctor and see if they would say she could not live alone anymore. Do not take Mom home , once you take her home and make your residence Mom’s legal residence it can be very difficult to have her placed in a facility.

I would go look at facilities and have a few in mind , in case at some point the hospital says she can not live alone. If that happens the hospital social worker could help with placement. Do not have Mom live with you especially if you do not have POA or guardianship . You tell the hospital there is no one to take care of Mom so they will assist with placement . Do not take Mom home even if they promise to send help , because it won’t be enough . You say it’s an “ unsafe discharge “.

If Mom is so resistive to your suggestions and you do not have POA or guardianship then it may be best to let her become a ward of the state to get her placed at some point .
Helpful Answer (11)
Reply to waytomisery
Report
Julzb50 Aug 9, 2024
you are correct a hospital visit will get her placed in either nursing home or assisted living and they can look up her insurance. as far as POA you need to find her will. if she has no will no poa the state will take over her care. i hate to say this but sometimes it’s better to just have the facilities and other people take care of a person in a combative state. the stress is enormous. i was assigned POA but I don’t want it. my dad fights me too much and I can’t handle it. so I am requesting a guardian of the state.
(1)
Report
dwcamp, welcome to the forum. When you get a chance please fill out your Profile page, which will give us a better understanding of your situation.


Even if you could get your Mom to sign a Power of Attorney, that doesn't mean you can force her to move. If she is clear minded, it is still her choice on where to live. I had POA for my parents, my Mom refused to have a caregiver or move. Dad wanted to move, but Mom won that discussion.


So, like many of us here on the forum, I had to wait for a medical emergency. Mom had one fall too many, 911 was called, she was hospitalized, then sent to rehab where she lived, then onto a nursing home. Mom now needed a village to help her.


As for the cats, each cat needs their own litter box. If she has 3 cats, three boxes are needed. Otherwise, the cat will think outside of box.
Helpful Answer (9)
Reply to freqflyer
Report
dwcamp Aug 3, 2024
Yes …waiting on that call is so hard! It gives me such fear and anxiety. I have to do a lot of praying just to keep my sanity.
(6)
Report
What will speed up a solution for her is if you and your sis stop orbiting around her and giving the appearance that she's living "independently" in her home. One of 2 things will happen: if she truly has suffient cognition (reason, logic and judgment still intact) and you inform her that you and sis won't sustain the care, she would then see she needs to change and consider moving to AL -- long as you and sis stand your ground and stop helping. This is also when you request she assign someone as her PoA. Please tell her if she doesn't do this she WILL eventually become the ward of a 3rd party court-appointed legal guardian and you and sis will have no control.

Or, she stubbornly doesn't ask for a change in help and stews in her mess all day. I think this is a clear sign of cognitive impairment. This is when you bring APS back in and work with social services to get her placed.

There really isn't any other options. You can take her in, but should you? Many on this site will point out that she's not even "as bad as it can get" in terms of behaviors and needs. Please resist thinking you can rescue her by moving her into your home. Especially if she doesn't (or can no longer) assign someone as PoA. This is definitely a dealbreaker for in-home care. The caregiving arrangement cannot be onerous to the caregiver -- it is 100% unsustainable. Others who have been there and done that will confirm this.

I'm sorry your family is in this situation. May you receive clarity, courage, strength, wisdom and peace in your heart as you help find a solution.
Helpful Answer (16)
Reply to Geaton777
Report
dwcamp Aug 3, 2024
Your answer was very helpful to me. It makes such a difference just to know somebody understands what I’m going through. Thank you so much!
(6)
Report
See 1 more reply
Time to call APS. They will assess the home for safety. They may also assist you in getting a good neuro-psyc consult. You say that social services has already "been out".
If the truth is that your mom is currently considered not a danger to herself and considered competent, there is nothing you can do.

You do not "get" POA "over" someone. A person must be competent and WISH TO GIVE YOU POA. And if they are competent you cannot do anything with a POA they do not wish you to do.

In the case that you are unable to act for your mother and the authorities that exist will not assist or intervene you are left exactly where you are. She has lived a long life. Whether she dies in her home or in a nursing home, at this point it matters little EXCEPT TO HER. If this is her choice and she is rational to make it you will have to accept it and provide best you can/as you wish to for her.
Sorry, but that's the fact, and not a lot to be done about it.
Helpful Answer (9)
Reply to AlvaDeer
Report

I think the hardest part , for me anyways about caregiving is the lack of control.

We more than likely know it would be better to get new hearing aids , for example. Better hearing aids would improve there health and brain function but it's more important to go shopping and by more and more junk.

I can go on and on, with an endless list of things I wish my mother would do or would of done.

But the fact is we can't change them, and the fact is I can't change myself to be a person that can fold a towel the exact way she wants me to fold the darn, stupid towel, with out feeling a bit cray cray.

Many of us here are waiting for the enable horrible phone call, or to call and have no one answer.

The only thing I can do is limit my time, set boundaries. My mom has a degenerative spine. I just recently told mom and POA brother, that I will do what I can to help her get back on her feet, take her to physical therapy and all that. But under no circumstances will I be there next time. The GP said they have done all they could and she has to go to ER next time. I told her the same exact thing.

I took my control back. I feel good about it. It's the right thing to do for her also. All I am doing is enabling her and my family to keep mom home. Not doing it anymore!

I would talk to your sister, make a plan to not go for a period of time. When the house gets really bad then call APS, or center for the aging.

I hope this helps a bit. Best of luck from one going through the same horrible situation
Helpful Answer (7)
Reply to Anxietynacy
Report
Anxietynacy Aug 3, 2024
One thing you and your sister could do is, one sister go or say your going away. Then the other sister suddenly come down with covid. Then call APS. Sometimes ya have to get sneaky
(4)
Report
No.
Helpful Answer (0)
Reply to mommabeans
Report

No, you can’t.

My MIL will not assign POA to either of us and I after I explained to her what ward of the state means, I have come to see it as a gift.
Helpful Answer (7)
Reply to Southernwaver
Report
waytomisery Aug 4, 2024
In the same boat with my MIL .
(1)
Report
I want through this with my mom. I had to hire an attorney and file for guardianship. My mom was already past the point of being able to consent to a POA She had already been reported to elder services and they told me if I didn’t file for guardianship, I could be charged with intentional neglect of a vulnerable adult. I will tell you, for me it was a 6 month battle and it cost me over $20k of my money. I was not treated well by the lawyer that was appointed for my mom. Since my mom was combative , paranoid and accusatory it took a lot of effort to show I have been caring and paying for all her needs for 8 years. I had to do it and I eventually got her a spot in a memory care facility. I love my mom dearly, but it’s a lot of responsibility. Make sure you are ready to legally take it on. IF however your mom is agreeable, it would be a lot easier.
Helpful Answer (9)
Reply to reneeantonia
Report

Contact her primary health care physician for documentation indicating she is unable to care for herself.

Then take that document to an attorney.

If you do not get MD documentation, then I believe she is legally able to make her own decisions.

If it were me, I would move her ASAP w or w/o her consent due to the unsanitary / unsafe home conditions. Call Adult Protective Services and ask them to make a visit to inspect.

Gena / Touch Matters
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to TouchMatters
Report

you PIA becomes in affect when the doctor write a letter and puts it in their chart saying they are a vulnerable person. a neurologist can do this. or Prinary. as soon as it states they can not manage their finances or funds you go to all the financhal institutions and fill out paperwork to make you durable POA at every bank or fund then your fine as long as you are listed in their will. if they don’t have a will you need to get a will made if not your kinda screwed. you will just have to get her signature in checks and get her permission on calls and everything.

my father is refusing for me to be durable POA till he is ready it’s like they are holding g onto the last thing they think they can manage but they can’t. an elder law attorney can help. estate attorney . you could also have the attorney set up a medicare arrivals trust with their funds in your name and that will pay for only medical. once you do that put her in assisted living you have the power to do all decisions.
i used Care Patrol they helped me find the right assisted living and with the paperwork and hired a mover it all got covered under his health insurance.

if she is refusing to sign then the attorney can do a State Gyarduan that would manage her money and care that goes through the courts but they could then grant it to you if she has no WILL. the POA is in the Will.
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to Julzb50
Report
Daughterof1930 Aug 9, 2024
Doctors have nothing to do with assigning POA
(3)
Report
no you cannot get a POA without consent since your mother would have to agree. The person gives POA, it’s not taken. You can however get guardianship but it’s a process and judges are reluctant to deem someone incompetent except under extreme situations.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to Jdjn99
Report
fluffy1966 Aug 10, 2024
Guardianship carries with it a LOT of responsibilities, too. I am not saying that trying for Guardianship is not warranted, but it's difficult to get and it carries much responsibility along with it . Also, must be updated by the Court annually, and other paperwork, too -
(0)
Report
DWCAMP: Sorry to see your mother's situation. If she will not give you POA, let her folly with her decisions. You can call APS to investigate her welfare. If she does get sick or injured and ends up in the hospital, tell their staff that she is an unsafe discharge, and do not take her home.

Back in 2008 when my mother's heart condition got worse, my family visited and told Mom to get POA for me and backup family members when Mom was of sound mind. Mom was still living with me at that time.

Fast forward to March 2012 when Mom suffered more health conditions and several falls. We had help in our CA residence that Mom hated and recovered from her injuries. Thank God I and backup family had POA and could not imagine without it! After Mom told me to fire the help because we do not have to pay for them, more fall injuries happened until Mom ended up in rehab, CA board-and-care since Mom had been an unsafe discharge from the hospital, then later to a nursing home in OR.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to Patathome01
Report

At what point does Social Services declared a person self neglect. I'm running into this situation with my 73 year old non-complaint diabetic sister (insulin dependent over 20 years - her mantra, I'll eat what I want then take a shot).

Social Services visited her home 2 years ago and she passed. Same for the psych evaluation while she was in the hospital (she knows how to play the game).
In the past 2 months, she has missed (without cancellation) 3 visits to her PCP for Annual Physical, 2 wound care, 1 rheumatologist, refuses to contact for an appointment Kidney, Cardio & Retina specialist. Yet, when she needs her meds refilled she doesn't think twice about calling them.

Plus her credit cards are maxxed and spends on Temu and other online vendors for quick cures, because it is NOT the diabetes that is the issues.

So at what point will she be declared self-neglect or do we wait until she is found in her home & pronounced?
Helpful Answer (0)
Reply to christinex2ri
Report
Daughterof1930 Aug 9, 2024
I’m sorry for such an awful mess you’re watching. The bar is unreal high for calling someone incompetent. Social services tends to always err on the side of letting people make their own decisions, even bad ones. I hope you’re not providing financially for your sister, or doing anything to help her illusions of being sound in her choices. Things will change for her, and it will be harder still to witness. I have a sibling doing much of the same, I’ve learned to keep a friendly distance
(2)
Report
decamp,

A POA will not really help you now. Guardianship is your legal option and it is REALLY expensive ($10,000 - $20,000 and court dates). All the other suggestions you have received are valid. I had POA for my parents and they were just like your mom (minus the cat issue). My mom refused in home help (we got it anyway but it was a struggle, hard to find, and expensive). APS told me there was nothing they could do. My parents were cognizant (in their opinion) and they had rights.

Something will happen. She will end up in the hospital and then you can step in and tell the hospital your mom is not safe at home. They need to know (the hospital) that your mom has no safe environment to return to if she is discharged from the hospital. She will be sent to a nursing home for medical care and from there you can work with that senior community/nursing home to keep her safe. Save your money because it will be expensive unless she qualifies for medicaid.

This is a great site to get other peoples views and experiences. As everyone else said, do not take her into your home. I also think the suggestion to tell her that you and your sister are busy and can't do all the things she needs will help you push her to listen to you. Best of luck and let us know how things work out.
Helpful Answer (6)
Reply to Sadkid22
Report
LakeErie Aug 10, 2024
Guardianship does not cost $10-20K. I went to the courthouse, filed the papers, and appeared before the judge. The court does home visits and all to make the determination if the person is incompetent. It costs a few bucks to file and you may need fingerprinting which is extra, but all together it isn't more than a few hundred dollars. That said, you may not really want guardianship, as it is a big responsibility.
(3)
Report
Either hire an elder care attorney to petition the court for guardianship or wait until she goes to the hospital and let them petition the court. You can refuse hospital discharge. Your mom needs to move into assisted living. You and your sister need to sell the house once your mom is out to pay for her personal care.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to Onlychild2024
Report

Stop taking care of the cats. Set up a place for the litter boxes that Mom can reach, and let her take care of them. You will probably need to set up a low table that Mom and the cats can both reach.

Do the same for everything else (laundry, food, cleaning supplies, etc.) If she is able to live alone then she is entitled to do so. Does she bathe and dress herself? Is she able to manage medications and appointments?

Visit weekly and hold your nose. If Mom asks for help, ask her to make a list of what she needs help with. Then tell her how to make arrangements for hired help if you and your sister don't want to do it.

Mom can choose to live alone, and you can choose not to support what you consider to be a bad decision. Neither of you gets to choose for the other.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to DrBenshir
Report

You can't get POA, she has to assign it.

Also stop propping her up. This is why she thinks she can live on her own. You and your sister are doing all the work. Visit once a week not daily.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to lkdrymom
Report

dwcamp: Sadly, as long as you and your sister continue the daily cleanup, nothing will change. She, as the principal, must assign POA.
Helpful Answer (0)
Reply to Llamalover47
Report

POA is a legal document that a person makes to allow another to make decisions for him or her. So, you can not get a POA if your mom doesn't get one that gives you that right. However, if her doctor declares her mentally incompetent to make decisions for her care, you make be able to make decisions for her - if your local state/province allows. Contact a local lawyer that specializes in family law or elder law to get specific advice. If mom is not living in a healthy environment, contact the local authorities for assistance.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to Taarna
Report
gemswinner12 Aug 29, 2024
Do not wate money on lawyers. I have been through this (mom died of Alz complications in 1018) my dad just passed away three weeks ago. We spent ZERO money on attorney fees. I also went through a divorce and only used a mediator.
(0)
Report
I have posted my Crazy story before, so the short of the long of it is to tell Mom first of all if she won't sign POA paperwork, you're out. You'll call the state and advise them your mom is living in unsafe/unsanitary conditions and ask for an APS visit for review. Adult protective services will then try and strongarm you and sis into being a "guardian"; read the paperwork it's a buncha bull and tell them no you're not going to do that. Tell Mom her care and decisions are going to go to some assigned person from the state if she won't sign you and/or sis to be her POA. That's my very best advice. Say it, and follow through.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to gemswinner12
Report

Your mother has to appoint you or someone else as her POA you can not just "get POA"
You could try to file for Guardianship but a Judge will not likely grant Guardianship if your mother is cognizant and she understands her situation and the danger she may be in.
Maybe mom would agree to allow you to put 1 or more cameras in her house so that you can monitor her on occasion.
Another option would to put Alexa or similar device in the house. From that you can set it up so that you can "drop in" on her and hear what is going on, talk to her. And she can ask Alexa to call you and it will call the number you have set up. It will not call 911 but chances are your mom would probably call you before she called 911 in an emergency anyway.
And this is the difficult part.
You are playing the "Waiting Game" you wait until something happens that will force a change.
If mom is taken to the hospital you ask to talk to the Social Worker or Discharge Planner and you let them know, and anyone else involved with her care that she is not safe at home, she has no one to help her and to discharge her to home would be UNSAFE. That may get things put into action that would bring about a change
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to Grandma1954
Report

Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter