How can we manage caring for my very negative father while living our lives, too?

I would lessen time spent with dad. You can't manage someone's negativity. There could be a lot of things going on with dad at this point of his life. Most older people feel useless when they get a certain age. They have retired, raised kids, and lost contact with friends their own age. Many of their friends have died. It doesn't take long to get into a negative mind frame.

Maybe discussing this with a social worker who can help with finding activities that may interest him. What were his hobbies and interests before moving into AL?

Unfortunately, it is not much you can do with dad's negative outlook on life and behavior.

Don't let your teenage daughter become a prisoner at these negative events. Teenage girls need the freedom to become teenagers. They need to do teenager things like hanging out with friends, going to the mall, boys, gossiping with their friends and other things teenage girls do at this age.

Try to keep as much normalcy in your family as you can, and don't make it all about grandpa and his issues.

Don't spend so much time with him. Maybe dinner once a month and maybe not every weekend activity. It might be uncomfortable at first but what you are doing isn't working. Some people are just negative. Not every senior has dementia. Moving to assisted living is a big change and people need time to adjust. I applaud you for allowing your daughter to leave the room when it's bad. She needs to be your primary focus not your dad.

Here’s a suggestion for a meal with dear Daddy. Each of your family have next to your place a piece of paper with two columns – one for complaints and the other for positives. Each of you scores him during the meal. Show him the scores. Duck!

Tell him that (whatever he thinks) this is how it comes across to everyone there. Tell him you will score him next time as well, and you would like the scores to be at least even. If he can’t do better, your family can’t have him for meals because it’s too miserable for you.

The totals are a way to avoid a denial of each complaint. Your family might find it rather good fun, even to discuss at the end whether everyone agreed on what was nice and what wasn’t. It’s cheap, and it might just have an effect.

DoingMyBest73: My late mother would state that "no one wants to hear about your problems" - referring to herself. As as result, she often would not tell me when she fell and other important things. I feel for you with your father. Prayers and hugs sent.

dear OP :),

another idea:
tell your father, there is someone called bundle of joy, who heard he's sometimes negative (perhaps for -- very good reasons -- sometimes), but anyway, he's grumpy, negative sometimes.

:) bundle of joy prepared the following quotes for him, to try to make him smile/laugh. he must try to imagine a very grumpy person saying this:

"Love is in the air?"

"I'm so grumpy I'm not even talking to myself!"

"Some people just need a high five
in the face.
With a hammer."

"I like onions."

"Some people just need a hug...around the neck...with a rope."

🙂 "I'm not only wearing my grumpy pants today...I have the whole outfit on and socks to match!"

dear OP :),

hug!!
i write as others wrote:

amazing all the love you give your father!! :) :) :)

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he's very lucky!!! in fact, i think i want to move into your home too :).

(just kidding).
(but you should tell him with a smile, there are LOADS of other people who want to move in, and receive all that love you give).
:)

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solutions against grumpiness?
it's very hard.

people who complain get JOY out of complaining. THAT is their path, their way to happiness, joy & feeling fulfilled.

if you take away the complaining --- oh my goodness, how are they going to be happy now?

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solutions?

complaining WILL get you down. in fact, as you said, you encourage your daughter to leave.

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so, solutions??

it's hard to come up with a joke every time someone is negative (let's say, you try to use humour against the negativity):
then they'll try very hard not to laugh, even if it is a very funny joke. they WANT to remain negative.

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ok, so solutions???

i give you lots of empathy hugs.

i have a LO (an inspiration to me all my life) - BUT, every once in a while, abusive against me, negative. (so that's more than just complaining; it's abusive).

but it's similar to your father, in the sense that you're hearing negativity/complaining.

you won't change the person.

if you could be a professional comedian?....
but even john cleese, i think, had trouble with his elderly mother sometimes. he tried to make her laugh.

the only thing i can think of is...
try to create big events (i'm sure you're already doing that), that he can REALLY look forward to. we all need something to aim at (!)------ none of us are able to live happily just having one day after another. we need a goal (even if that goal is for example, in 1 month, we're going to this AWESOME place together, Dad, are you looking forward to it?).

some, out of the ordinary, event. we all need that.

First, my compliments on your obvious caring attention to your father's needs. He's very lucky to have you do so many things for him. It sounds like maybe your mother was the buffer, his safety net, his partner--but that's all different now. Some older adults have a difficult time coping with the drastic change that takes place when they are suddenly alone in this world. Others are completely disoriented being on the receiving end instead of the giving end when it comes to doing everyday things. He may have been very active and engaged in his younger years, and finds it frustrating to have limitations that come with advanced aging. Some parents find it virtually impossible to accept the role reversal that happens with their children as they age--they think it's undignified.

Everyone has a different perspective about the circumstances they are in and the effect that it has on those around them. Please allow me to offer some insight that might be another way to view the situation: as we age, so many things change, like the death of a spouse and friends, our health status (despite our best efforts to stay healthy), our living environment, our finances, our value to others.

Being in an AL facility may be a difficult adjustment for someone used to having more independence. So many feel forgotten and alone, or like they've become a burden on their adult children. The single most difficult thing about losing a spouse or good friends is losing someone to talk to and do things with. You may be the only one he feels comfortable enough complaining to, like you're the only person who actually cares. He may just need to be re-directed in a conversation where you are asking him for his advice, like you actually need his input; or to ask him how he would handle a situation. Everyone loves to be needed, and valued.

Don't confuse depression and loneliness with dementia. Not all who are severely depressed by their new status in life are experiencing dementia--it might be a new medicine he's been prescribed, or a drug interaction with other medications he's taking. Or it could be a fall or bump to the head that mimics some of the same characteristics as dementia. Perhaps time in a grief counseling group would help his state of mind.

It's so hard for some parents to feel like an interloper in their adult children's lives, so maybe it would be a good idea to let him know how you value the time you do get to spend with him, but need some space from time to time--and let some time go by where you aren't always at his beck and call. It may make him appreciate you and your family's presence in his life even more. When he does come for dinner tell him about what activities you and your husband have been involved with, how your jobs are, or your daughter's school studies, etc. Force him focus on your lives instead of his unhappiness with his. Sometimes we need to shake things up to make a difference.

Men especially have a hard time when they lose their wife/partner, and could be the reason why so many look for a replacement so soon after their death. Maybe suggest that he get more involved in the social activities offered by his facility. He needs something else to focus on--for his peace of mind and yours.

You're a wonderful person for providing love and support to your father. Don't let his negativity drain the life out of you and your family. Re-direct the convo when you can, step back and away when it gets to be too much. Bless you and good luck.

Oh my gosh. I completely understand what a horrible drain a negative, grumpy old man can be. My mom died recently, and we are all devastated. My dad, as he has done his whole life, can only see how it affects him. He can snap and be nasty and it is because he is grieving, but no one else is allowed to have any feelings. I know the automatic response to this will be to write that he lost his wife, he is old, he is lonely, but this has been his way for our whole lives. We are all extremely supportive of him; he has not been alone for a minute since my mom's illness and death. His house is taken care of by us, he is fed by us, he is pretty much clothed by us, we listen to his endless complaining... There comes a time when you just cannot take it. Several of my siblings have commented that they have not had a chance to grieve at all because all of our emotional band with is taken up with him. Infantilizing old people and allowing them to behave however they want with no consequences is insulting to them and damaging to everyone else. Unless dementia or Alzheimer's or mental illness is involved, they need to be respectful people as well. I have taken care of both of my parents for years and years, so this is not about that. My grandmother, who was a sweetheart, used to say that she had earned the right to say whatever she want to say; not so. Not so.

Remember that old saying, "Absence makes the heart grow fonder?" Perhaps it's time to take a break and not call or show up. Get him a geriatric psych eval so everyone is on the same page.

Let go..................start living your life.

Have you considered anti-anxiety medication or antidepressants? Have him evaluated by a psychiatrist.

If you want to keep doing this I think you’ll have to realize (if he’s got dementia) that this is part of it. My dad continued to live on his own well past the time he should have due to pure stubbornness. Finally a crisis ended up in a 3 week hospital stay and he was properly diagnosed there. During those years we noticed a lot of changes in his ability to control his temper and he also became very grumpy. When he finally came to live with me I realized I was not going to be able to really “make him happy”. I was satisfied that he was kept clean and warm, fed and his healthcare needs were being attended to. It’s partly the disease and I would guess the lack of independence that makes them seem grumpy. I don’t know if they can really control that.

I'm sure you're dad is bored and depressed. It's really not about you being busy as it is his complaints that bother you. What positive things does he have to look forward to? Does he ever get out to sit in the sunshine or walk in a park? Or does he go from his home to your home? Perhaps talk with his Dr. Maybe it's time for anti depressant. If you think about it, all he sees is negativity. If you live in that kind of enviroment, it's easy to become negative. It sounds like once a week visit to your home is too much for you. You need to have a talk with your dad on his negativity and perhaps suggest he look for positive things as you should, when he visits. It's not fun getting old. Obviously you are showing signs of not being happy to be around him cause he's basically called you on it. If it's all too much for you, try having him over every couple of weeks. It's sad that he enjoys your husband and daughters company but you send your daughter out of the room. Dad just lost 50% of happiness that he actually had.... Daughter needs to suck it up a bit more. Her gramps is only there for a short time. You are teaching her at an early age to leave when she doesn't like something. It will come back to bite you when you are old and in need of company. Perhaps you should talk with a counselor yourself. There's nothing much you can do about dad, but there is something you can do about your attitude toward him. He feels it. That's why I'm sure that he leans toward your hubby and daughter. Be glad you don't have to care for him other than paperwork and 1 meal a week. Some of us has it all to do, 24/7 while still finding positive energy. It is so sad for your dad to be in that situation. Good luck to you.

Sounds similar to my mom. My sons (teens at the time) complained that she behaved in ways that they would never get away with. What I ended up doing was spending time with her at her IL/then AL or taking her somewhere (store, restaurant, drive). I went to a counselor to help me with boundaries. My husband is very supportive, and my sons are much less affected.

Maybe he just needs to “spill.” ( I know the feeling.) could you arrange for him to see a therapist once a week so that he can at least tell one person his complaints so that he doesn’t have to keep them bottled up?

Instead of trying to shut your dad's complaints down, which will frustrate you both, try commenting on how that condition or episode must make him feel. The weird-eating lady? You might acknowledge that watching her must make him and others uncomfortsble. Similarly with other situations he may describe, address how that situation might be making him feel. When he wishes you were more excited to see him, realize that your focus on how busy you are leaves him feeling rejected.
If he feels more "heard" about particular issues, he will have less need to repeat them.

Glad to hear it’s not just my Mom. Had to cut back on the every day visits at her AL. Had a very heated discussion with her recently and her attitude has changed a bit.

It is strange how we all respond to aging and disability. We all will have to do so, unless we are very lucky, or very unlucky: live long in robust health and die suddenly, or die much too young. Face it, when a loved one feels negative and complaining; it is a natural response, but they can spare you some of it. You are quite likely to be in the same boat some day. How do you expect to react to that? How do you expect other people to respond? Don't let someone's negativity suck the pleasure out of your life. They are not going to be caring for you when you are old and ill; it isn't fair to ruin your life when you are not. My father, who was very problematic throughout all of our lives, responded brilliantly to his illness and death, even going to a hospice. He said at the time, "I hate whiners." Remember, we are very likely to be in these disabled relatives shoes some day, how do you want to act and do you want the people who you love to put up with it, or give you a well earned telling off, when they must. Give them a chance to act like caring human beings and tell them how you really feel about their behavior. They won't like it, none of us do, but they might change some of it. Even one celled organisms can respond to environmental changes. Respond directly to their negativity, decrease "nice" and "positive" responses to it. If necessary, withdraw when they are a pain, recover and give yourself a chance to remain sane and cheerful by not tolerating this emotional blackmail.

When my mum moved in with me 5 years ago she was the most depressing, negative person ever. It affected me badly and I had to have counselling. When it all became too much I told her straight that her behaviour had to change or I couldn't live with her. It took a while but when she realised that she wasn't going to get the attention she craved as a victim, she changed her ways. She complained about aches and pains sometimes but I tell her she's lucky to still be here aged 96 to complain. You just have to say it as it is or turn all his negatives around into something positive, then he might realise how he's affecting others!!

Dad very well could be in the early stages of dementia. It could be MCI (mild cognitive impairment). But MCI is “mild”. It doesn’t necessarily alter behavior, but it could.

I appreciate your kindness in trying to help and love your dad. But he needs to stop and you need to tell him so. Say, “Dad, we love you. We love having you over and will continue to do so under one condition. STOP COMPLAINING!”

Draw the line in the sand and follow through. You have to protect the peace of your home. Just because he’s related to you dies not give him license to abuse your ears.

set time lines. Try a week or two of following through. If it doesn’t work, start extending the enforcement.

I believe you and your family are very patient, loving and caring. Has your father always been negative (if so, he is manipulating you and affecting your positive lifestyle and wants to be the center of your world over your husband and daughter), OR is this a recent change in personality/character? If so, then perhaps a type of dementia is presenting itself. In my case, Mom is narcissitic and manipulative, so I have had to set definitive boundaries, e.g, 5-10 minutes to complain and then leave it behind for another visit or telcon. If she continues, then I tell her it's time to end the visit, or telcon and we will reconnect when she is in a better mood. Mind you, this is very difficult to enforce...true tough love, but highly affective! God bless and hugs!

For the entirety of my life, my mother chronically complained and spoke badly about others, including the rest of the family members, who were too fat, too skinny, too loud, too quiet, too snooty, too rich, blah blah BLAH. She was an energy vampire, is the best way to describe it. She'd swoop into a room and immediately drain it of all the joy......for those in the INNER CIRCLE. For the others, she was all sweetness and light. As her only child, I was her "inner circle" until my DD came along, my son was spared her venom and criticism.

So, every single time I'd ask her to PLEASE stop complaining, she'd say, "I'm not complaining.......I'm TALKING." She'd get highly insulted that I'd even SUGGEST she was complaining, and so it went. I'd tell her she was THE MOST NEGATIVE HUMAN I'd ever met, is that better words to describe what you're talking ABOUT mom? Oh I'm just TALKING for godsake, was her reply. In other words, she felt entitled to use us as to vent and it was her right, and it was our obligation to suck it up and listen, make the appropriate comments of AGREEMENT with all the foul remarks, and that was that, period.

What happened, in reality, is we backed away from mom bc all that negativity winds up getting absorbed by US and it's too much to handle. I visited mom at her AL once a week and cut the visits short when the toxicity level got too high, and took her home from my house earlier and earlier too. After she became wheelchair bound the visits to my house had to stop entirely. When the phone calls got ugly, they too were ended quickly. And I always told her why. It's not okay to "just talk" when the other person is TELLING you it's upsetting them. That's the road to ruined relationships...when the other person is too pigheaded to see the light.

Good luck with a difficult situation

The next time you have dinner, plan it at the al.

With some seniors, it’s like they’re in grade school. They will want to showtime in front of their peers who are already incented to come over and say hi. Having a family visit in a group environment is often the most prestigious thing ever.

There are no easy answers here. I have been with my mate almost thirty years. He has always been a complainer. To the point where I considered leaving him many times.

After so many years I've found disengaging with him helps. When I say disengaging I mean just ignoring him. Grey rocking is a term I've read on this forum a few times. Look it up.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of good responses on here. Just keep on reading. Good Luck!