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My Dad moved into an Assisted Living in June. The morning LPN who administers the morning meds is not friendly to my dad. He drinks instant coffee in his room in the morning. This morning he wasn’t feeling well and asked his morning LPN if she could make him a cup of coffee. She told him that NO, he wasn’t in that part of Assisted Living. I’ve heard her speak harshly to him on several occasions when she didn’t know I was in the hallway. She also lied to him and told him that he couldn’t have a migraine headache medication until 5 pm that day (it was morning when he asked). The order was written for the pill to be given PRN. I’ve already had 1 meeting with the administrator and things have not improved. They won’t let cameras, but I would love to be able to see what goes on when I’m not there. I think this woman just doesn’t like my dad. What else can I do?

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Ask for another nurse to be assigned to his care.
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Mds1954: Report this individual to administration.
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Report to facility administration in person and in writing; note that if there is not satisfactory resolution,you will be seeking legal advice.
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I was an RN for about 30 years- and before that worked as an aide in an SNF, every job I ever had being friendly and helping was part of the job. Only time I stuck to my”scope of practice “ was in an actual imminent or urgent situation - tho folks sometimes still complained. ( had to explain to my manager that I took fifteen minutes to get someone (and their guest) some water because I was called to a delivery and needed to resuscitate the newborn (sorrrry!) not everyone I worked with did the same but she should have at least checked since he felt ill . Also - medications for pain (such as his migraine ) are the priority and not the scheduled meds. She should have interrupted her task and brought him the pills. Not doing so is a breach of her responsibility and should also be reported to her licensing board.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2023
Everyone should have your work ethics.
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I would start looking for a new facility. If you have already talked to the Administrators twice and they haven't taken action, it is time to decide whether to tolerate the issue or whether it is time to move.

There is a lot more going on than you see.

Is your Dad a hard person to deal with? Are you a hard person to deal with (e.g. only talking to staff when you are complaining about them, etc.) If so, unless you want to move, you will need to change your presentation. Decent places will move the staff around so that they don't get irritated by specific individuals.

It is hard work, however, that doesn't mean that you have to tolerate a situation that you consider unacceptable.
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Don't know what kind of answers you have been getting, but here is my 2 cents worth. First, if you and your father have care conferences at his assisted living facility, that is a meeting you detail the observations of the care and treatment this LPN is providing. Request she not be a caretaker for your Dad.
Next, if no action is taken, send a letter (with a defined timeline) to the administrators asking they take immediate action to remove this LPN from your father's care. Also, in your letter explain that you will looking to find another facility for your father if appropriate accommodations are not made. Personally, I would hope they would suspend or fire the LPN, but DO NOT request that kind of action.
As soon as the letter is postmarked, start looking to find other acceptable assisted living facilities, and do your due diligence and check the States Ombudsmen report card on new assisted living facilities. Also, check to see if these facilities are accepting new residents.
Give the current facility 2 or 3 weeks to correct the problem. If the facility has taken no action nor given you satisfactory answers to the steps they have taken to correct the problem. Tell them you will be following thru in moving your Dad to a different facility where he will receive better care.
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I would start looking for a new facility. In the meantime, if you have POA. I would install a hidden camera. Their policy is meaningless when it runs up against his safety and security. His emotional happiness is part of that equation. He was not asking for her to move CE mountains. The migraine concern should be right up her alley. If he is not feeling well it should be addressed. Nothing like living in a place where you pay oodles of $ and treated like you are a PITA.
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Mds,

You wrote us on the 2nd July. You were intending to follow up with the admins and I am wondering if you got any satisfaction? I would love to see an update it you have one for us. Best out to you.
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I am shocked by some of these answers and frankly tired of hearing excuses. There are some wonderful caregivers out there and there are some who do it for a paycheck. If I only "did my job", I would be out of a job. If you are in a service profession, ie dealing with anyone in the public then your mentality should be, "how can I help you?" If she couldn't or shouldn't make a cup of coffee, then she should have called down and let them know that he wasn't feeling well and needed some help for that particular day. If it becomes a problem then maybe he does need to move to a different level of AL. I am very aware of the hardships of nursing but kindness should play a big role in AL and MC facilities. That is part of their responsibility as a "care"giver. Document and report every incident in emails.
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dhalpern Jul 2023
Tresha, you are 100% right. Compassion, caring, and initiative is a core requirement in this position. If management tolerates this mediocrity then they are signaling to all the staff that lazy and mean service is rewarded and that substandard is an acceptable standard.

Residents and family members are afraid to complain for fear of
retribution and even lower service level and meanness.
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Sounds like the medication LPN at Dad's Al has a bit of a snarky attitude. Although in all honesty considering how short staff the medical profession is today it is understandable although not appreciated if it's your family member they're dealing with. Part of the issue could be, depending on how dad's Al is structured, is that he may not truly be in that part of an AL that makes coffee for people. Remember, the original Al format was that they offered an "assist only" to people so they would remind you of medications and hand them out to you they would assist you in reminding you to attend social events and to go to lunch and dinner. As the population aged and needed more services, the AL model changed a little bit and they added in different levels of care.
Also keep in mind in most states medications have to be given within a certain time frame and with high level security. The cart is locked the minute the nurse moves from the cart into a room to give a medication to a resident. Unless there is a code blue life-threatening emergency on her floor, she is not to leave that cart! Failure to adhere to that rule will certainly cost the AL penalties on that state reviews and that nurse can lose her license!
Oh that being said she may have just been having a bad morning or was annoyed that you asked her to leave the card not knowing that you didn't know the rules and regulations. If you like where Dad is now maybe try mending the fences with her little bit. So you might start off when she's finished her medication run going up to her and saying something to this effect " nurse Adams I'm so sorry I interrupted you the other day to ask for a couple coffee for my dad. I guess I just forgot how busy you were and how important the medication one is. Now I need your help because I need more information on how to do this if Dad wants a cup of coffee on another day?"
You are showing her that you were sorry about interrupting her work, letting her know how important you feel her work is and asking for her help. It might not work with her but I can tell you it has worked in a lot of instances for me. Get them on my train; let them think they're driving it - I don't care as long as we get to my destination.
Good luck.
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Some workers in assisted living facilities bring to work their own frustrations, anger, and jealousy from their personal lives. They resent serving others. Making vulnerable residents miserable gives them an easy power trip that they can't get elsewhere. Management is at fault for hiring and retaining an employee who is mismatched for the position.

Are there other substandard employees there that are being tolerated by management? If yes, this is a hopeless situation and you should move.

Start documenting your concerns in emails to the administrator even though you're not getting relief. You will need it if it escalates to a complaint to the ombudsman or to the owners.
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You don’t like how he is being treated move him into another facility .
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Worriedspouse Jul 2023
Depends on location. Some places have a shortage of available rooms at affordable NHs. But I agree that this is an option.
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Some families hire private caregivers to look after their loved ones in NHs. That person will report back to you what’s going on. But doing this is expensive.
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For starters, it's not the LPN's job to be friendly or to make coffee. It's her job to administer the medications. There's no reason to complain to her superiors about that. Although, there's nothing wrong with doing someone a favor once in a while.
I can't tell you how many times I'd bring a resident a snack if they weren't feeling well, chance a pull-up, or give a shower to help put the aides. Technically, it wasn't my job because I was the supervior, but if everyone was busy and it had to get done, I'm not too proud to work.
These days many, many nurses in such a situation are.

What you do have reason to complain about is if she is lying about orders on when to give medications. Also the speaking harshly. What did she say? You say you've personally heard her on several occasions. So that behavior can't be overlooked as someone having a bad day or being overtaxed with work and doesn't have time for petty nonsense that is very common with elderly folks.

I would talk to her personally and her supervisor. Personally, I'd reconsider leaving your father in a facility that does not allow cameras in his personal space if him and his family want them.
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Breezy23 Jul 2023
I am a nurse myself and if it "isn't my job" attitude prevails the patient or here the resident suffers, and no patient should be lied to or spoken harshly to. The LPN could say " I can't get you coffee right now but let me get someone to get it for you" or she could do it anyway. Part of being a nurse is to be kind, friendly, caring, trustworthy, but most of all professional and this LPN doesn't sound like that at all. I hope the OP gets somewhere with administration, her father shouldn't be made to feel this way.
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Any chance you can ask AL admin to give your dad another LPN? Be frank. Explain the current LPN is mean to your dad.

You won’t change that person’s mean streak. It’ll come out in various forms. Don’t wait around to discover how she behaves when you don’t watch. You have a bad feeling, that feeling is right.
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AlvaDeer Jul 2023
Would be very rare to have two nurses on duty same shift for ALF.
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It sounds to me that she is being professional about her job duties. She has a set job description that she follows. Some nurses are pretty stern in their duties and this is from life long experience of dealing with patients that have been unruly and troublesome or from family yelling and screaming at her for whatever reason or the other.

I'm sorry this happened to your dad. If she yells and screams at her patients that is one thing. If it is just a simple no, its a simple no. At least she did give an explanation that he is not in that particular unit and left it at that. Her main objective was to get the meds passed by a certain time. You could have gone to the nurse's station and requested to get his medication for his migraines.

I don't think she has a personal vendetta against your dad.
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MACinCT Jul 2023
When I worked in a large hospital every employee was part of customer service. While not in my job description I should obtain that denture cup. If something was out of my scope of practice then my response was that I would notify someone else. No was not an option. I recommend to keep a log of all instances and speak to her manager
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Withholding meds IS abusive.
It is big power trip for some med-administrators. I've seen this happen in every AL facility I've worked in...there is always at least one sick individual passing meds who gets off on the power. It is sick, and wrong, and needs to be reported as high up the chain as necessary to make it stop.
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2023
@tiredsister

I was the medication supervisor in a high-end AL and I know what you say can be true.
No one under me dared step out of line on my watch because they knew what the consequences would be if I caught them. There was also no hiding in the residents' apartments until the shift is up either (this is common in AL's for aides who do not want to give a shower or change a diaper).
I expected the aide staff to behave well and to maintain a good work ethic. I will not tolerate laziness.
In turn, I would not tolerate nor did I expect any of the aide staff to tolerate abusive behavior from residents. The aides were not expected to interfere in any of the residents' personal matters. If some resident was feuding and fighting with another, it was not for me or the aides to settle it. We would never take sides or listen to any petty squabbles and complaints. I did not expect them to socialize with the residents, listen to complaining, or allow a resident to "lash out" at them because they are bored or want someone to fight with.
I know what you're saying is true though, and it's up to the supervisors and administrators to run a tight ship and make sure they know what every aide, nurse, and staff member is doing all the time.
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An LPN is not an aide. Her job at that moment was to do med passes. Med passes need to be completed within a certain time. Because then comes around meds that have to be given before or after lunch. She may not have that couple of minutes that it takes to get him a cup of coffee. When she meant he was not in that part of the AL, they must have different areas depending on the care residents get. Your Dads care must be such that he is pretty independent so capable of doing for himself. He is not paying to be waited on, sort of thing. His migraine pill? If that is as needed and it was on the cart, he should have been given it. Otherwise she could have said "I will get it as soon as I am done Med pass". There needs to be an RN in charge. The LPN answers to the RN. I would talk to the RN, tell her what you said here but...ask if she could please find out what the problem is with her and Dad. If a med is "when needed" then Dad should get it when needed. If no RN, I would question why an LPN is in charge. Most States require RNs be in ALs.
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I’m sorry but if she made coffee for all the residents, she wouldn’t be able to dispense meds to everyone.

All of the rest of it, I can understand your pov. When you have another meeting, I would leave the coffee bit out.
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2023
@southernwave

Sometimes you can make a person a cup of coffee. If you can't, then you can ask an aide or some other employee to do it.
No one has to be nasty about it though, but some people are and that does not have to be tolerated for one minute.
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So the morning medication LPN is a grumpy witch, but I'm not seeing anything abusive in what you have told us. LPN's don't make coffee, that's not their role. No doubt she could have told him to use the call button to summon someone lower down the hierarchy but she snarked instead - every part of our lives include encounters with people like this and we learn to deal with it.

As for the mistake in medication - that is something that needs to be addressed, and focusing on the LPN's professional competence will get you farther than complaints about her difficult personality.

returning to add that this is based on the assumption that someone living in AL is a competent adult with minimal physical limitations, treating anyone with cognitive or physical needs limiting their self care in this way would indeed be abusive
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OK...you might want to try this...
If dad can have Alexa in his room you can "drop in" and listen in on conversations.
So if you know that the LPN is going to be in his room at 7 AM you can be listening in.
This would give you more of an idea what the conversations are.
You can't see what is going on but you can hear.
*As I was googling this I did come across info (did not watch it though) on how to turn Echo into a security camera...just a thought
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Ask for another meeting with the administration and her/his boss.

Tell them that you require a different LPN be assigned to your father.

This is abusive behavior.
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anonymous1732518 Jul 2023
All well and good if they're not understaffed.
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