How do I manage 90 yr old FIL expectations regarding running errands?

Oh well, he needs to adjust, not you. I did not think it at the time I was setting boundaries with my Mom but seems I was. I worked a p/t job and set up one day a week to shop and run errands with her. If he can buy milk in the same store that sells trash bags then he does. Or you find a store that sells everything he needs. It may cost him more but he is saving on car payments, gas and insurance. You are right in telling him you are willing to do but in your time not his. I live in the same town as Mom did. I had no problem picking up prescriptions. Calling and asking her, when I was going to the store, if she needed anything. Took her to an appt, I would ask if she needed anything on the way home and if so, we would stop. But I was never at her beck and call.

You are not wrong, he is in expecting u to do this. I guess ur DH does not take him shopping?

That was all well and good when he was the one doing it. He can't expect others to be at his beck and call. I took my father shopping once every other week. He lived close enough that if he needed milk or bread he could manage that on his own. I did not have that kind of time to go more often. If he is not speaking to you, I hope you still aren't showing up to take him.

He is using this as a social outing and mad that you are not going alone with it. He does not consider your time valuable. Time to nip this bratty behavior in the bud.

Not speaking to you?
Sounds GREAT TO ME!
Hope it continues that way for a while.

I always tell people who come with these questions that the thanks you will get for doing this stuff is that you will be EXPECTED TO DO EVERYTHING. And that when you cannot or will not do everything they will be very angry.

We tell people who we are by how we allow them to treat us. If we tell them to kick us like the dog they will be quite happy to do so, and will expect to do so whenever they like.

You have to take responsibility for yourself and how you wish to be treated.
People will come here and they will give you sympathy.
That sympathy and about 7.00 will get you a Starbucks. Maybe.

Expectations always set a person up for disappointment. My mother was the queen of never having her (unrealistic) expectations met and was therefore continuously disappointed and NEVER happy or satisfied. Your FIL is asking for favors, yet insisting his expectations be met with a smile? Rich, isn't it?

The Silent Treatment is a passive-aggressive means of punishment to get you to cave in and do things HIS way. Except it's also a nice reprieve from the constant stream of demands, if you're able to view it that way.

Get him set up with a Wal Mart home delivery service and an Uber service or the phone number to the local cab company. They'll take him to stores daily if he'd like. Wal Mart food delivery also includes free delivery with no minimum on their merchandise not available for home delivery.

In the meantime, you're available once a week if he's still interested. If not, you've got 100 other things to do with that time.

Tell him to spend his money, you're not looking for an inheritance. Or better yet, move into Assisted Living where the mini bus will take him to run errands AND feed him 3 meals a day!

I agree with the others: you are not wrong, and good for you to set this boundary.

My Mom is very similar (although she still drives herself within a small radius of her house, I try to consolidate her trips for less driving). I also try to reason with her that by time she drives to 3 or 4 different stores when those items can all be found in one place, the cost of gas nowadays is an issue. I just paid $3+ a gallon today (at Costco) so you can make the point that the gas expenditure erradicates the "savings" from driving to a less expensive store. Also, my Mom does it because she's bored. The staff at the stores greet her like she's Norm from "Cheers" (and some of them run and hide).

I would not contact him first -- let him stew a little. If he does come back around and returns to this unreasonable expectation, maybe come up with a gas fee if he wants you to go more than once a week (and you're willing).

FIL either goes out when you can take him , or he can get a taxi or an Uber . It’s that simple .

I went through this too .
He just wants to go out everyday . I’m surprised he hasn’t asked you to take him to a restaurant on the way because he conveniently hasn’t eaten yet today .( Been there , it turns into an all day event ).

The other alternative is having things delivered as mentioned already .
I also agree to taking him somewhere that has just about everything for one stop shopping , and maybe one other store if you are willing , or go to a different store the next week .

Gee, my mom was grateful when I showed up once a week to take her shopping.

"No, I can't possibly do that" is a wonderful response.

If he's not speaking to you, I guess he has the resources to get his needs met by someone else.

Independence is wonderful!

Enjoy the time he isn’t speaking to you. It’s a gift they sometimes give us.

Look for a senior transportation service. Where I live there’s a charitable group that has scheduled vans going to popular places such as grocery store, library and Walmart. The fee is small.

I don’t think there is any reason to compromise on this, but just in case you want one… You could suggest that FIL takes a taxi to the store, and you pick him up from a particular place in the car park at a time you have agreed. He can enjoy his ‘outing’ on his own. If he is early, he waits. If he is late, he gets a taxi home. And he doesn't need to come when you pick up meds.

At least it's an alternative to 'No'.

Oh gosh, what a pain. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this situation.

After my dad died I drove to my mother’s house on the weekend to take her grocery shopping. She wouldn’t have ever expected me to take off work or go on a weekday.

When my mother in law became sick with cancer I offered to help with her mom’s shopping.

Oh my gosh, my husband’s grandmother was a very demanding woman! I had to nip that situation in the bud immediately! I set strong boundaries and didn’t budge from them. Otherwise, she would have tried to run me ragged!

Council on Aging in our area has a shuttle bus that takes seniors to the grocery, pharmacy, doctor appointments, etc. They will assist people with canes, walkers and wheelchairs.

Another option would be delivery service. I like Shipt. There’s also instacart. Some stores deliver groceries as well, Target, Walmart, etc.

Best wishes to you and your family.

I think the only thing that will work is one day a week he goes to the store. No compromise. He has to go when she can otherwise he uses other transportation. He is being unreasonable. His life is changing and he has to change with it. Also, your DH should be doing for Dad. I understand that he works longer hours but there is the weekend. He needs to be there for Dad too.

My mantra...I am here to help people find the way, not be the way.

Perhaps your mother could talk to your FIL so she could advise him what is reasonable :-)

My limit would also be once a week. I would hold firm.

"I am sorry you can't drive.
But my offer is once a week to the store. Maybe I can help you think of solutions for the other days?
Eg You may need to hire an Aide for a 2nd day a week".

My LO started going to the shops more frequently. The weekly organised list gone. I noticed slippage of memory & planning skills - buying just 1 packet of this, 2 cans of that. Then back to the shops next day..

Now want to be taken to visit shops many days. Boredom? Loneliness? Hmm

It's a shame your Dad doesn't live in a village, where he could walk. The elders walked down to their local High Street in every area of London & Europe when I lived there. Here too, but only inner city/suburban. The outer areas need cars to get to big shopping centres.

Actually, those Assisted Living places are like villages.. just a little stroll to the coffee shop, the hairdresser/barber, the bowling green or newspaper reading room. Just saying..😜

No is a complete sentence, my step-father would shop on Amazon Daily buy duplicates and duplicates of the same thing. He did it because he was bored. Gave him something to do.

What he is used to no longer matters and your husband should be doing this, not you. It is his father.

Or, he can Uber.

AL would solve many of his wants & needs. He is spoiled like so many old men are, they are all about their wants & needs, they could care less about anyone else.

Stand firm. Once a week is more than adequate.

My grandfather was just like this! He would buy things to last a day or two and then back to the store. It was a fun outing for him, I guess.

After his dementia kicked in and he stopped driving, we didn’t take him to the store much at all. He was almost blind and leaving the house was too disorienting for him.

But yeah, multiple store trips like that are not feasible.

BOUNDARIES
You have set the "ground rules" if he is going to depend on you for transportation then he has to accept that limitation.
Can he call a cab, Uber or other ride share? Are there friends or volunteer organizations that might take him once in a while?
Let me let you in on a little secret....
He goes to different stores because he is lonely and walking around the store and seeing the employees that probably know him makes him comfortable. Trust me if he does not show up for a few days they will notice and ask how he is. It is also a form of exercise, walking around the store a few times is safer than walking around the block or in the park. (floor is even, he has a cart to help support him and if he falls there are people to help him)

Can you manage 2 days "shopping" with him? If so you could pick a Monday and a Thursday (or schedule when your stores have the start of sales and then the last day of the sale.)
And...is is possible that your husband can do one of the "shopping" days? I hope he is helping out with the care of his dad.

You need to let him sit with it. Please do both you and FIL a favor and don’t give in. So many problems begin and grow when we aren’t honest with the amount of free time we have to offer. It’s not up for debate. It’s your good nature that even allows it at all. it’s also your responsibility to take yourself out of the equation.

And, studies have been done, see attached link, that show that these minor stressors will show up in our future to attack our mental health. the future is now.

Do let DH find an alternative mode of transportation for his father. It will take both of them a bit out of their comfort zone but that’s okay. Any angst needs to be between the two of them. You are caught in the middle. Remove yourself.

FIL will be a happier person when he is grateful instead of pouting. growing pains are a bit uncomfortable so you just patiently wait for him to adjust his attitude.

And gently I suggest that you allow his son to help him with his errands. When you get home from work do you sit and wait for DH to come home and make you dinner? Does he put a load of laundry on or run the vacuum? How about the clean up after dinner? So do you truly have more time or is it that you are just accustomed to pitching in for everyone and YOU are just trying to fold in one more chore? Why YOU?

When FIL was your age what was he doing? Was he worrying about how often he got his FIL to the grocery?

Caregivers make a huge mistake by not giving serious thought to what lies ahead and pacing themselves. As you mentioned, you already have your job and your mom. And please know that it is the psychological wear and tear that gets to us just as much, if not more, than the actual chore itself. The very level of expectation you are trying to manage with your FIL is what wears us down. He sounds spoiled and again, I’m sorry to say this but that’s on you. Stop it.

You wrote “Obviously I can take him out more than once a week for immediate pick ups like meds that can’t wait”. This is the ONLY reason you should consider even once a week. And why are you taking him to pick up the meds? They can be delivered. DH can pick them up without him.

This one little phrase speaks volumes to me. He thinks he needs to manage his own money is what I’m reading between the lines.
And I’m sure you could care less except for the aggravation of it all. An emergency is you or DH in the hospital. Picking up meds on command is not an emergency. Stop doing that to yourself.

You need to really spend some time on this forum to help you adjust your attitude. You found this site, you posted under Burnout, Family Caregiver and Driving. Yup. You are past due for a major reorganization of YOUR life. Not FIL life, if he is so smart he can organize it all himself.
I’d let him pout and I’d let him know when asked thats it’s once every two weeks now.
Mess with you again and once a month can be arranged.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654031/

I still do most of my own errands and other basics, but reading these comments makes me realize--even more than I already did--that old people can be a HUGE BURDEN on their families. To be honest I would rather have made my Final Exit about 6 years ago when I was "only" 80, but guess what? I didn't. I'm truly hoping that I will do so before I end up being the oversized burden so many elders become. Eldercare in 21st America is often a bad joke unless there's a LOT of money.

You can still offer your one regular errand trip a week, but for other days maybe you can help him find resources for other days. Senior service or church group volunteers might take him to a store once every week or two. It won't be every day. If he wants more frequent rides than can be arranged through volunteer services, he will have to hire a taxi or a ride share or a driver

You can often get groceries delivered by setting up accounts at a favorite store (they often contract out to Doordash or Instacart). Or you can set up a delivery account for one of these: DoorDash/InstaCart/Uber/GrubHub, using his card. Instacart might be the best for groceries/convenience items, but I'm not positive.
You could also set him up with an Uber for trips, if he could manage that.

Mich56,
I began to have this same issue with my father. He knew my regular day to run errands for him was Saturday but as you mentioned, if it was for medication, I would go anytime. He started wanting me to go to the store almost daily or after I’d been to his house and asked if he needed anything, he’d say no.. and as soon as I got back home, he’d call and want me to go get takeout or etc. I had to start telling him if it could wait, it would have to because I was running around all the time. I suggest setting a regular day and trying your best to stick to it unless it’s a necessity.

I want to address the volunteer thing. This is usually provided to help get people to appts. Yes, it can be used for shopping. I have done this but, I don't want to do it every day. I was helping a family. In one month, I was taking someone somewhere 3x a week. My DH, we're retired. But thats not how I wanted to spend my retirement. Your FIL is ridiculous thinking that anyone should take him shopping daily.

ELizabeth, I never thought of my Mom as a burden. But then she did not expect me to be at her beck and call. Like this FIL, too many parents have expectations that no way can their children meet. They don't like change. But when your getting up there, there will be changes and they have to except them. Their children are not the answer. My mantra is "I am here to help people find a way, not be the way". Meaning that parents have to except the help given them. If children can't or won't give that help, then the parent needs to find options. If their help makes it so staying home is not possible, then they need to go into an AL or home without making children feel guilty. If they can't afford to have their lawn mowed and upkeep to the house, then they downsize to an apartment. Boundries only need to be set when parents will not compromise. When they feel it has to be their way. I had no problem with my Mom. She excepted shopping one day a week. She excepted that I worked. She never asked my DH to mow her lawn. She paid someone. She had no expectations and appreciated the time she got. And because she had no expectations, I didn't mind doing for her. She knew if she needed anything call me at work and I'd pick it up on the way home. There has to be compromise in a parent/child relationship. This is what I can do, this is what I can't do and this is what I won't do.

Our township has a senior bus that picks up, drops off for an approximate time and picks up & takes home. I've seen people with walkers & canes shopping. The driver is really helpful. See if your township has something like this. Good luck!

You are not a victim, but rather a manipulated volunteer.

Make a list of transporters and leave it on the fridge for him to call at his command (Care.com, Lyft, Uber, local cab service). Give him the name and number of pharmacies that will deliver or have the Care.com person pick them up for him. Some grocery stores deliver.

Now, you have time for a mani-pedi!

I would start with your husband. FIL is obviously using these shopping trips as something to do to alleviate boredom. And he sees you as someone who has nothing more important to do than entertain him. Your husband also doesn’t respect your time or he’d put a stop to it. I guess he’s okay with it as long as he doesn’t have to do it (perhaps he prefers working more hours to catering to an elderly, demanding father?). This isn’t fair to you. You are working and have your own mom to take care of. I’ll bet most of the household work falls on you as well.

My husband was 100% in charge of his mom’s needs, both before and after he retired. She had cancer and vision problems, so there was a lot of necessary running around. I don’t think she ever asked to go shopping more than once a week and she often combined a trip to the store with a doctor appointment if she was up to it. Any help I gave him was freely volunteered and gratefully acknowledged. If FIL is like most older men the only chance of his accepting any boundaries is if you and husband are on the same page. So you will need to make him understand the score: If he doesn’t want to service dad’s whims personally, he’ll need to lay down the law and maybe grow a thicker skin when the pouting starts.

It isn't a matter of who is wrong - or right.

I feel it is a combination of boundary setting and compassion, i.e., his need with your availability - and more.

* It is understandable that he will 'naturally' want what he is used to or certainly more than less than what he's used to. It is good that he voices his needs and this needs to be acknowledged so he knows he is heard.

* Do not argue.

He will want to convince you to do what he wants so when you say "I can take you out once a week," he will have a retort immediately "No, I want ... " When he does this, say "I hear you saying XXX " then stop. Do not get into that maze. It only adds emotional upset / upheaval to an already sensitive issue - he is changing / losing independence and this requires that 'everyone' adjusts as needed. However, he needs to fit within your availability to help him out - and that won't be easy for him. He won't like it. AND, SEE BELOW. If you can arrange a visitor(s) during the week, you can let him know that he won't be alone ... someone 'lovely' person will take him out to xxx" -

* It is important that you 'check' yourself emotionally and psychologically. Do not get into a guilt trip or the "I shoulds" - this will not serve you nor him. Feel / learn to feel confident in what you can and cannot do.

- Once you make your decisions, stick to them. He will / may try to break you down. If you need breaks to regroup, do that. He will need structure. So much depends on his - and your - emotional makeup / history / self-esteem, and, of course, his mental state re dementia (if this is part of the picture).

- Understand that this is confusing and new for you. You may feel bad due to exhaustion and no time to do what you'd want / like to do (I certainly went through it - it is an awful feeling - knowing how lonely someone is ... depending on YOU ... and exhausted). You do the best you can. Period. No beating yourself up.

* From what I read, he is lonely. The going to the store for a carton of milk is a cry for companionship and company, and some change of scenery. This is important to address.

IMPORTANT: SOCIALIZATION VISITOR(S)_____________________

* If no other family member available or if then cannot assist, get some one else in to be with him. Consider hiring someone during the week to take him out for a couple of hours.

* Socialization visitor / caregiver in at least once a week for that mid-week visit / outing. More as you / he can afford.

* If money is an issue, get volunteers (I did this and it worked out beautifully - 2 or 3 during the week and my 3-4 visits/week). I had 6 days covered which was ideal - with some very dedicated volunteers. My friend/companion was bedridden in a nursing home. These visits were his LIFE line.

* If not a volunteer agency for supporting elders, try a college. Contact Dept heads: nursing, social work or geriatric dept. Some students will (or should have) experience in these areas and it will be good for them.

Work with whoever you hire / find to visit:
- Share some of his life history - work - hobbies - interests
- tell them to ask open ended questions vs the 'yes' or 'no' response questions.
- important to smile
- As touch is appropriate and responded to, perhaps hold his hand or give him pats on the back, if not a gentle shoulder massage.

Thank you for asking. Let us know how it goes.

Gena / Touch Matters

My guess is that when FIL finds out that you haven’t caved, his next step will be to start complaining about you to his son, your DH. And you say that DH’s response to him is usually ““yes dad anything you say”. So you could quite easily have both FIL and DH pressing you to compromise.

I’d suggest that you get DH to run FIL’s extra errands. You don’t want to do this, but if the pressure starts on you, you need DH to find out for himself just how unreasonable it is for FIL to expect this from you. DH might ask for FIL’s credit card for the fuel as well. At least think about this, and be watchful if the pressure on you starts coming both ways.

I take it he doesn't live near a bus line? If he did and could use the bus, he could plan his trips to the store that way (and get good exercise to boot,,)

Make a Boundary once a week for 2 hours unless it’s a medication .