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You described my mother . It is very difficult to deal with .
My advice is that Mom should not live with any of her children . Mom will need to be cared for by non family .
This is what my mother’s doctor told me when Mom was no longer safe living alone . My mother was abusive , refused to eat, shower , change clothes . I was at my wits end. The doctor was more worried about me than my mother . Mom had to go to assisted living .
I agree. Don't let momma live with any of her kids. Especially if she is a narcissist. My momma is and she lives in assisted living. Absolutely hates it! Been complaining and blaming me for the past five years that "I put her in assisted living". No I didn't. The doctor did! Said she needed 24 hr care. I mean nobody really wants to go live in a facility but that was the best choice for momma. You cannot make them happy.
You deal with her by placing her in a memory care facility(using her money or Medicaid if needed), and then you visit if and when you want to. You are not obligated to do any hands on care, nor even to visit if you don't want to. And the nice thing about having her in a facility, is if she starts to get nasty, you can just get up and leave and tell her that you'll be back another day when she perhaps will be in a better mood.
Are you the diagnostician? Or is this a diagnosis by a licensed therapist? Because today every other person who comes to Forum is dealing with a Narcissist. That either means that there are percentages of people dealing with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, estimated to be 6.2 world wide and 5% in the USA , is wildly under-reported, or that every narcissist in the world someone lands on AgingCare Forum.
Please tell me the symptom of OCD you are dealing with so that I can try to guess whether this is also diagnosed by an amateur.
Start out with keep things calm. Don't argue. Those are always great places to start. Then I recommend starting out with Teepa Snow videos. When you have got through all of those do some online study. Use your favorite search engine, type in "Dealing with Narcissim" and "Dealing with OCD sufferers".
That's going to give you a great start. Come back to us then with a specific situation. Tell us how you handled it, and how your handling of it went South. We will try to give you suggestions on how to handle it should it re-occur.
Wishing you the best of luck. With all of these on your plate there will be lots to learn. Remember...........you didn't break it; your can't fix it; and in all likelihood it cannot BE fixed. So it is a matter of staying calm, getting help, and getting through it.
Interestingly you say that this person you speak of also has dementia. That's almost lucky, in that dealing with someone with dementia is also quite like dealing with anyone with a personality disorder.
Make sure she gets into a good memory care facility and visit her when you wish. If you wish. Easy-peasy. That's it.
We see people on this forum all the time who have exhausted themselves by running obstacle courses set up by their dementia-afflicted OCD narcissist parents. Shuffling them from one of their adult kids' homes to the other, moving them across the country because mom says if she can move back to East Podunk she'll be happy, maintaining her home with the hoarding and all, cleaning up after her incontinent pet (and incontinent her). And all the while she's hiding toilet paper in the fireplace and screaming all night because the ceiling fan is a giant spider that's going to kill her. This progression might take five years or so, and then her children realize that they've bent over backward for mom and it has done no good. None.
Save yourself the misery by skipping steps 1, 2, 3, and 4. Go directly to step 5, memory care. Start visiting some now.
P.S. There are meds that will calm her down, and you should ask her doctor about them immediately.
One of my LO fell down that path. Now deep in that bog. Twisting & bending, sufficating.. Guilt? Hope of making her happy? Hope of a reward of a thankyou?
They can't deal with making decisions and are only concerned about themselves and what they want. Trying to 'help' them often winds up making the CGs just flat out crazy and sick.
"Dementia" is the definitive word here. A broken brain cannot be reasoned with and can no longer hold on to information. Add into that the OCD and Narc behavioral traits and you have the trifecta of 'nightmare' aging!!
This was my MIL for the last year of her life. Driving everyone absolutely nuts, demanding this, then that, complaining of everything, seeing problems and issues when there were none. It took my DH and his 2 sibs about 10 months to realize that she was never getting 'better' and they had to get out from under her spell.
My MIL went into ALF, but was quickly deemed to be waaaay too bad for ALF and was being moved to MC when she passed away.
I have to figure out a way to forgive her for stealing a year of my DH's life from him. At some level. I'm still really angry with her for being so impossible--even though, towards the end of her life, she really wasn't capable of being responsible for her behavior.
Mid, I am right there in your last para. I know my LO is not really responsible for their behaviour, yet, to be very honest, I do hold some anger at the 'crazy' & how it may have erroded the health of those in the orbit if it.
Have you read any books on dementia, or you tube Teepa Snow.
In my experience OCD and narcissism go hand and hand with dementia.
I feel that it's a bit like alcoholism, any bad aspects of a persons personality seems to be amplified with dementia, not unlike alcoholics. If your an angry person your much likely to be an angry dementia patient. Same with OCD.
Please do read up and you tube more , you will get a better understanding and more compassion, when trust me I know it's at times hard to find.
Best of luck to you. Any more specific Questions? Be glad to answer them for you
My mother was a true narcissist with OCD . Was diagnosed based on my description of my mother’s behavior during her whole life . This came about when Mom was diagnosed with dementia and the doctor in private asked me what Mom was like when I was growing up . The doctor had a suspicion Mom was like that based on the horrible things my mother told the doctor about me in order to try to have the doctor on her side to get her out of assisted living .
Anyway . The doctor told me dementia was just like throwing gasoline on a fire and that Mom had no filter and her brain automatically would be in manipulation mode . I asked the doctor what my mother said , and the doctor would not even tell me . The doctor said to limit how much time I spent with my mother , for my own good .
I’m sorry to say but Teepa Snow is useless in these cases . Nothing worked , my mother was too abusive and manipulative , always playing the victim . The doctor told me that these people can not be cared for by family members . They need to be cared for by strangers who they will not try to guilt trip , abuse , and manipulate the way they do family .
From what I have seen Teepa works for Alzheimer’s who are more forgetful . It did not work for my mother or my FIL with vascular dementia . They were still too smart and always challenging and being manipulative .
The only way your going to get through it is by finding something, anything that gets you out of the house for at least a couple hours a day or even every other day. Take a walk in a beautiful park, sit by the water. Reclaim your soul and it will help you find the patience you need. I feel your pain and I too have to find what makes me happy first, the Narcissistic behavior is magnified by the dementia. Go find your soul and smile again.
Who is giving the patient all these diagnoses? Dementia is all -encompassing and would include a lot of behavioral disorders. It’s a handful by itself.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It is very difficult to deal with .
My advice is that Mom should not live with any of her children . Mom will need to be cared for by non family .
This is what my mother’s doctor told me when Mom was no longer safe living alone . My mother was abusive , refused to eat, shower , change clothes . I was at my wits end. The doctor was more worried about me than my mother . Mom had to go to assisted living .
Good Luck .
With very thick skin, a hard hat & noise cancelling headphones?
And good support for the kids dealing with this.
You are not obligated to do any hands on care, nor even to visit if you don't want to.
And the nice thing about having her in a facility, is if she starts to get nasty, you can just get up and leave and tell her that you'll be back another day when she perhaps will be in a better mood.
Because today every other person who comes to Forum is dealing with a Narcissist. That either means that there are percentages of people dealing with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, estimated to be 6.2 world wide and 5% in the USA , is wildly under-reported, or that every narcissist in the world someone lands on AgingCare Forum.
Please tell me the symptom of OCD you are dealing with so that I can try to guess whether this is also diagnosed by an amateur.
Start out with keep things calm. Don't argue.
Those are always great places to start.
Then I recommend starting out with Teepa Snow videos. When you have got through all of those do some online study. Use your favorite search engine, type in "Dealing with Narcissim" and "Dealing with OCD sufferers".
That's going to give you a great start.
Come back to us then with a specific situation.
Tell us how you handled it, and how your handling of it went South.
We will try to give you suggestions on how to handle it should it re-occur.
Wishing you the best of luck. With all of these on your plate there will be lots to learn.
Remember...........you didn't break it; your can't fix it; and in all likelihood it cannot BE fixed. So it is a matter of staying calm, getting help, and getting through it.
Interestingly you say that this person you speak of also has dementia. That's almost lucky, in that dealing with someone with dementia is also quite like dealing with anyone with a personality disorder.
We see people on this forum all the time who have exhausted themselves by running obstacle courses set up by their dementia-afflicted OCD narcissist parents. Shuffling them from one of their adult kids' homes to the other, moving them across the country because mom says if she can move back to East Podunk she'll be happy, maintaining her home with the hoarding and all, cleaning up after her incontinent pet (and incontinent her). And all the while she's hiding toilet paper in the fireplace and screaming all night because the ceiling fan is a giant spider that's going to kill her. This progression might take five years or so, and then her children realize that they've bent over backward for mom and it has done no good. None.
Save yourself the misery by skipping steps 1, 2, 3, and 4. Go directly to step 5, memory care. Start visiting some now.
P.S. There are meds that will calm her down, and you should ask her doctor about them immediately.
They can't deal with making decisions and are only concerned about themselves and what they want. Trying to 'help' them often winds up making the CGs just flat out crazy and sick.
"Dementia" is the definitive word here. A broken brain cannot be reasoned with and can no longer hold on to information. Add into that the OCD and Narc behavioral traits and you have the trifecta of 'nightmare' aging!!
This was my MIL for the last year of her life. Driving everyone absolutely nuts, demanding this, then that, complaining of everything, seeing problems and issues when there were none. It took my DH and his 2 sibs about 10 months to realize that she was never getting 'better' and they had to get out from under her spell.
My MIL went into ALF, but was quickly deemed to be waaaay too bad for ALF and was being moved to MC when she passed away.
I have to figure out a way to forgive her for stealing a year of my DH's life from him. At some level. I'm still really angry with her for being so impossible--even though, towards the end of her life, she really wasn't capable of being responsible for her behavior.
That's quite a big question.
Oldest, anything specific?
Any safety concerns? Or behaviours that you want ideas & strategies for?
In my experience OCD and narcissism go hand and hand with dementia.
I feel that it's a bit like alcoholism, any bad aspects of a persons personality seems to be amplified with dementia, not unlike alcoholics.
If your an angry person your much likely to be an angry dementia patient. Same with OCD.
Please do read up and you tube more , you will get a better understanding and more compassion, when trust me I know it's at times hard to find.
Best of luck to you. Any more specific Questions? Be glad to answer them for you
Anyway . The doctor told me dementia was just like throwing gasoline on a fire and that Mom had no filter and her brain automatically would be in manipulation mode . I asked the doctor what my mother said , and the doctor would not even tell me . The doctor said to limit how much time I spent with my mother , for my own good .
I’m sorry to say but Teepa Snow is useless in these cases . Nothing worked , my mother was too abusive and manipulative , always playing the victim . The doctor told me that these people can not be cared for by family members .
They need to be cared for by strangers who they will not try to guilt trip , abuse , and manipulate the way they do family .
From what I have seen Teepa works for Alzheimer’s who are more forgetful . It did not work for my mother or my FIL with vascular dementia . They were still too smart and always challenging and being manipulative .
I feel your pain and I too have to find what makes me happy first, the Narcissistic behavior is magnified by the dementia. Go find your soul and smile again.